So why does the americans reject obama's health plan?

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Because a thousandth of a dollar from your weekly paycheck will just cripple you.

Sajedene

Wow, you just keep on with the generalisations, dontcha?

News flash: you help poor people every day, and they help you; you don't live in a bubble and the problems of a society are just as much your problems as anyone else's.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="gatorteen"]

The reason why 3rd world countries struggle are directly applicable to the reasons why poor people in American struggle. Now it may not be at the same level, but these people deserve to be treated with the basic right of health care. You of all be people should understand that.

Theokhoth

Again, you must really hate paying for clean water, electricity, roads, functional vehicles, the Internet, phone service, food stamps, public education and police service; all those dirty poor people stealing your money!

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] Me of all people understand that some make it and some dont. Welcome to reality. I am not a saint nor do I plan to be one. My concern is my welfare, my family and my future family. I do not need to be forced or to be burdened by providing for others I do not care about. If you care about them so much - then do something about it. I don't care so much as you do and yet I feel like I've done a whole lot more than what you can say for yourself.LJS9502_basic

Again, you must really hate paying for clean water, electricity, roads, functional vehicles, the Internet, phone service, food stamps, public education and police service; all those dirty poor people stealing your money!

Because people only look out for number one in a functional society.

I'd say the only ones there that an individual would not use for themself would be food stamps and possiibly public education. Since the others would be used by society at large they are not applicable here. Just saying for clarities sake.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Hey dude, make-up products are expensive. :|

Theokhoth

Wow, you just keep on with the generalisations, dontcha?

News flash: you help poor people every day, and they help you; you don't live in a bubble and the problems of a society are just as much your problems as anyone else's.

"Economy (and I guess what every else influences society in general) doesnt affect me olololol"

>___>

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I'd say the only ones there that an individual would not use for themself would be food stamps and possiibly public education. Since the others would be used by society at large they are not applicable here. Just saying for clarities sake.Engrish_Major

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Again, you must really hate paying for clean water, electricity, roads, functional vehicles, the Internet, phone service, food stamps, public education and police service; all those dirty poor people stealing your money!

Theokhoth

Because people only look out for number one in a functional society.

Not really. Do you really concern yourself with your neighbors suffering? Because I don't buy that people are that altruistic.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="gatorteen"]

The reason why 3rd world countries struggle are directly applicable to the reasons why poor people in American struggle. Now it may not be at the same level, but these people deserve to be treated with the basic right of health care. You of all be people should understand that.

gatorteen

So you are saying that the government shouldn't help people that are born into a society that gives them less opportunity then others.

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I'd say the only ones there that an individual would not use for themself would be food stamps and possiibly public education. Since the others would be used by society at large they are not applicable here. Just saying for clarities sake.LJS9502_basic

If all your neighbors are sick then you're going to end up sick as well whether you care about them or not. Of course, you could do something about their sickness before it gets to that point, but then, that's not utterly selfish and contemptible, so it shouldn't be done.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Not really. Do you really concern yourself with your neighbors suffering? Because I don't buy that people are that altruistic.Engrish_Major

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Not really. Do you really concern yourself with your neighbors suffering? Because I don't buy that people are that altruistic.LJS9502_basic

A system is only to be developed if and only if it guarantees 100% success? Are you serious?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]Society at large benefits when the population is healthy.Theokhoth

If all your neighbors are sick then you're going to end up sick as well whether you care about them or not. Of course, you could do something about their sickness before it gets to that point, but then, that's not utterly selfish and contemptible, so it shouldn't be done.

The population will never all be 100% healthy. Show me one country without disease and illness. No matter the health care payment.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] Me of all people understand that some make it and some dont. Welcome to reality. I am not a saint nor do I plan to be one. My concern is my welfare, my family and my future family. I do not need to be forced or to be burdened by providing for others I do not care about. If you care about them so much - then do something about it. I don't care so much as you do and yet I feel like I've done a whole lot more than what you can say for yourself.Sajedene

So you are saying that the government shouldn't help people that are born into a society that gives them less opportunity then others.

"Please, sir, I don't have any food for my family."

"Well, here's a pile of cow ****, you can eat that."

"But, sir, that's unsanitary!"

"So? It's there, and if you don't utilise it, then it's your problem."

"But we'll get sick!"

"Not my problem."

"But how will we shine your shoes, sir?"

". . . .Okay, here's some meat."

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]Insurance rates are higher for everyone. Productivity at work is lower when people are unhealty. If a population is healthy, costs are lower for everyone.Teenaged

A system is only to be developed if and only if it guarantees 100% success? Are you serious?

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Not really. Do you really concern yourself with your neighbors suffering? Because I don't buy that people are that altruistic.LJS9502_basic

If all your neighbors are sick then you're going to end up sick as well whether you care about them or not. Of course, you could do something about their sickness before it gets to that point, but then, that's not utterly selfish and contemptible, so it shouldn't be done.

Oh wow.... :roll:

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Not really. Do you really concern yourself with your neighbors suffering? Because I don't buy that people are that altruistic.LJS9502_basic

If all your neighbors are sick then you're going to end up sick as well whether you care about them or not. Of course, you could do something about their sickness before it gets to that point, but then, that's not utterly selfish and contemptible, so it shouldn't be done.

Because sick people never touch things that you could never possibly come into contact with yourself without knowing that a sick person touched it.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

The population will never all be 100% healthy. Show me one country without disease and illness. No matter the health care payment.

Engrish_Major

[QUOTE="Engrish_Major"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I'd say the only ones there that an individual would not use for themself would be food stamps and possiibly public education. Since the others would be used by society at large they are not applicable here. Just saying for clarities sake.LJS9502_basic

He's talking about the big picture. Society, as a whole, will be better because ahealthy person is more to society then a sick one is.

Because sick people never touch things that you could never possibly come into contact with yourself without knowing that a sick person touched it.

Theokhoth

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] The population will never all be 100% healthy. Show me one country without disease and illness. No matter the health care payment.

LJS9502_basic

A system is only to be developed if and only if it guarantees 100% success? Are you serious?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Engrish_Major"]Society at large benefits when the population is healthy.gatorteen

He's talking about the big picture. Society, as a whole, will be better because ahealthy person is more to society then a sick one is.

And my statement is simple. No matter what medical system is in place disease and illness continue. So what does your post really say?:?LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="gatorteen"]

So you are saying that the government shouldn't help people that are born into a society that gives them less opportunity then others.

Theokhoth

"Please, sir, I don't have any food for my family."

"Well, here's a pile of cow ****, you can eat that."

"But, sir, that's unsanitary!"

"So? It's there, and if you don't utilise it, then it's your problem."

"But we'll get sick!"

"Not my problem."

"But how will we shine your shoes, sir?"

". . . .Okay, here's some meat."

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]So what? 0_o

A system is only to be developed if and only if it guarantees 100% success? Are you serious?

Teenaged

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Because sick people never touch things that you could never possibly come into contact with yourself without knowing that a sick person touched it.

LJS9502_basic

Helpful reality check: soap doesn't kill every possible contagious disease and you eventually have to touch (and subsequently eat) food.

Has it been proven that our society is any sicker than any other?LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]And my statement is simple. No matter what medical system is in place disease and illness continue. So what does your post really say?:?Engrish_Major

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] If I had a say...hmmm.... we already have systems, albeit run horribly that address that, but here is something that will affect the health and wellbeing of my family and I will fight it. Call me whatever you want - I stand by what I see and I will look out for my needs and the needs of my family. I find it very jaded on your end that you assume the only thing that I will be affected with is added tax on my hard earned paycheck. Maybe you need to learn more about what "free" health care really entails on top of added taxes.Sajedene

"Please, sir, I don't have any food for my family."

"Well, here's a pile of cow ****, you can eat that."

"But, sir, that's unsanitary!"

"So? It's there, and if you don't utilise it, then it's your problem."

"But we'll get sick!"

"Not my problem."

"But how will we shine your shoes, sir?"

". . . .Okay, here's some meat."

Except a huge amount of the people who don't "rise up" don't because they are simply unable because the system does everything it can to prevent such a thing from happening, even when it could be easily prevented in the first place. Your "rags to riches" crap is the fantasy.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Follow the chain. Thus we will all have lower productivity due to unhealthy people. Costs can not get too low no matter what system you utilize.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="gatorteen"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Not really. Do you really concern yourself with your neighbors suffering? Because I don't buy that people are that altruistic.LJS9502_basic

He's talking about the big picture. Society, as a whole, will be better because ahealthy person is more to society then a sick one is.

Its simple, people that are too poor toget health care will get it, and more people will be treated for being sick. That equals more healthy people.

And government health care may not be best here. I had government health care in the military. Not a wonderful system actually.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Because sick people never touch things that you could never possibly come into contact with yourself without knowing that a sick person touched it.

Theokhoth

Helpful reality check: soap doesn't kill every possible contagious disease and you eventually have to touch (and subsequently eat) food.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]And government health care may not be best here. I had government health care in the military. Not a wonderful system actually.Engrish_Major

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] Helpful hint to staving off illness. WASH HANDS. Don't touch your face.

LJS9502_basic

Helpful reality check: soap doesn't kill every possible contagious disease and you eventually have to touch (and subsequently eat) food.

Yes, minor threat. Solution to all problems: wash your hands. This is a completely reasonable approach to medicine.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] Oh yah... all the poor people are so helpless that they need the help of those who work. There are plenty of examples of people rising out of poverty - some make it some dont. That's reality for you - not some Charles Dickens fantasy you type up because you think I'm spoiled for seeing the world as what it really is.Sajedene

Except a huge amount of the people who don't "rise up" don't because they are simply unable because the system does everything it can to prevent such a thing from happening, even when it could be easily prevented in the first place. Your "rags to riches" crap is the fantasy.

Like... I cant blink right now.....

And the really sad thing is that you are serious....

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] Oh yah... all the poor people are so helpless that they need the help of those who work. There are plenty of examples of people rising out of poverty - some make it some dont. That's reality for you - not some Charles Dickens fantasy you type up because you think I'm spoiled for seeing the world as what it really is.Sajedene

Except a huge amount of the people who don't "rise up" don't because they are simply unable because the system does everything it can to prevent such a thing from happening, even when it could be easily prevented in the first place. Your "rags to riches" crap is the fantasy.

That's not true; you're obviously still alive.

You received only what the government was willing to give you.....LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Except a huge amount of the people who don't "rise up" don't because they are simply unable because the system does everything it can to prevent such a thing from happening, even when it could be easily prevented in the first place. Your "rags to riches" crap is the fantasy.

Theokhoth

That's not true; you're obviously still alive.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] You received only what the government was willing to give you.....Engrish_Major

The for-profit insurance companies will give us soap to wash our hands with; the government will just gives us scented water.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

Except a huge amount of the people who don't "rise up" don't because they are simply unable because the system does everything it can to prevent such a thing from happening, even when it could be easily prevented in the first place. Your "rags to riches" crap is the fantasy.

Theokhoth

That's not true; you're obviously still alive.

sig worthy

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] Only the worthy survive.Sajedene

That's not true; you're obviously still alive.

Labelling one's self worthy if they are far from bad things in life in order to distance themselves from the counterpart which is the people who have faced the bad things in life more than them. In reality though they live in constant fear of failure and thats their defense mechanism.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] Only the worthy survive.Sajedene

That's not true; you're obviously still alive.

Yes, the next time I have an allergic reaction my throat might close up in my sleep. Because I'm not worthy enough for basic medicine.

There's a word for people who judge others to be worthy based on their income. . .elitist?. . .no. . . I think it starts with an N. . .something to do with a very authoritarian state. Name escapes me.

[QUOTE="Sajedene"][QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

That's not true; you're obviously still alive.

Teenaged

Labelling one's self worthy if they are far from bad things in life in order to distance themselves from the counterpart which is the people who have faced the bad things in life more than them. In reality though they live in constant fear of failure and thats their defense mechanism.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] And so are you. I guess time will tell.Sajedene

Labelling one's self worthy if they are far from bad things in life in order to distance themselves from the counterpart which is the people who have faced the bad things in life more than them. In reality though they live in constant fear of failure and thats their defense mechanism.

Uh-huh, until they need income for things like basic healthcare, and then if they don't have it it's because they didn't work hard enough, so they're not worthy. Because, as everyone knows, everybody who works hard will be rewarded.

Please.

Based on American standard. I believe that every American is entitied to enoughhealthcare that will allow them to live life comfortably. It's clear, that is not the case.Based on how rich our society is today there should be no reason why American citizens are denied healthcare. Having a healthcare system that covers all Americansis not gonna cripple the economy, or take away that general capitalistic drive that help build this country.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Sajedene"] And so are you. I guess time will tell.Sajedene

Labelling one's self worthy if they are far from bad things in life in order to distance themselves from the counterpart which is the people who have faced the bad things in life more than them. In reality though they live in constant fear of failure and thats their defense mechanism.