I have always viewed suicide as cowardice, self-sacrifice on the other hand in different like dying to save someone I think it is very honourable. Spartan_385
Well self sacrifice or martyrdom is not suicide. Suicide is to take one's own life not sacrifice oneself to save another.
Its a personal choice it has nothing to do with being honourable or cowardly. Someone is tired of life why force him to go on? Im sure as heck not planning to live past 40.rzepak
Tell that to your parents and your friends, then you'll see why people should be forced to go on.
I don't think it can be simplified as to be either cowardly or honorable, though in no situation would I consider it honorable as it's totally immoral, but that does not at all mean it's cowardly.
You may call people that commit suicide cowards but it must be a very brave thing to do. I don't think I'd ever have the courage to kill myself, but then again, I've never been so depressed and broken that I've started to think like that.
I don't think it can be simplified as to be either cowardly or honorable, though in no situation would I consider it honorable as it's totally immoral, but that does not at all mean it's cowardly.quiglythegreat
You wouldn't consider taking a bullet for somebody honorable?
You may call people that commit suicide cowards but it must be a very brave thing to do. I don't think I'd ever have the courage to kill myself, but then again, I've never been so depressed and broken that I've started to think like that.Silent-Hal
Well, part of this argument certainly entails the question "what is courage?" to which many reply "being afraid of more important but less obvious things".
[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]I don't think it can be simplified as to be either cowardly or honorable, though in no situation would I consider it honorable as it's totally immoral, but that does not at all mean it's cowardly.Fortier
You wouldn't consider taking a bullet for somebody honorable?
Thats not suicide, its sacrifice. Its totally different.
[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]I don't think it can be simplified as to be either cowardly or honorable, though in no situation would I consider it honorable as it's totally immoral, but that does not at all mean it's cowardly.Fortier
You wouldn't consider taking a bullet for somebody honorable?
I haven't heard of too many people commiting suicide that way, and I wouldn't really consider that suicide whatsoever, but that aside, I'm not entirely sure it is honorable, for some weird reasons which I'd rather not go into, but that kind of altruism is commendable, even if misdirected.
[QUOTE="Silent-Hal"]You may call people that commit suicide cowards but it must be a very brave thing to do. I don't think I'd ever have the courage to kill myself, but then again, I've never been so depressed and broken that I've started to think like that.quiglythegreat
Well, part of this argument certainly entails the question "what is courage?" to which many reply "being afraid of more important but less obvious things".
Yeah, I agree. The fear of death is a very prominent thing in today's soceity, with all these fears about terrorism, crime and war. But if you already have nothing to live for, then you wouldn't really have much to be afraid of. What really bugs me about the whole suicide issue is people who seem to have good, happy lives with everything to live for and they seemingly needlessly take their own life.
I think suicide is the most powerful right any one has.. The decision of ceasing to exist.. Its definitely sad, but I think most people who think its cowardly honestly do not deal with deep depression, anxiety or other powerful conditions that warp thoughts.
I have never seriously considered suicide, therefore I am not in a position to judge those who have a) considered suicide b) Attempted/commited suicide.
[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="Silent-Hal"]You may call people that commit suicide cowards but it must be a very brave thing to do. I don't think I'd ever have the courage to kill myself, but then again, I've never been so depressed and broken that I've started to think like that.Silent-Hal
Well, part of this argument certainly entails the question "what is courage?" to which many reply "being afraid of more important but less obvious things".
Yeah, I agree. The fear of death is a very prominent thing in today's soceity, with all these fears about terrorism, crime and war. But if you already have nothing to live for, then you wouldn't really have much to be afraid of. What really bugs me about the whole suicide issue is people who seem to have good, happy lives with everything to live for and they seemingly needlessly take their own life.
Well, everyone has something to live for, but people get too trapped within themselves and worry about their own lives more than they do about others', which helps lead to suicidal tendencies. There never is a 'need' to kill oneself, however if they commit suicide then I believe it is usually a fair guess that he or she was not at all happy in the first place, however comfortable their lives may have been, because happiness is a very complex and elusive state of being.
I think suicide is the most powerful right any one has.. The decision of ceasing to exist.. Its definitely sad, but I think most people who think its cowardly honestly do not deal with deep depression, anxiety or other powerful conditions that warp thoughts.sSubZerOo
I've had problems with depression for the past several years and have never thought for once to end my life. If I can beat the depression than so can anyone else. It is just "giving up."
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] I think suicide is the most powerful right any one has.. The decision of ceasing to exist.. Its definitely sad, but I think most people who think its cowardly honestly do not deal with deep depression, anxiety or other powerful conditions that warp thoughts.foxhound_fox
I've had problems with depression for the past several years and have never thought for once to end my life. If I can beat the depression than so can anyone else. It is just "giving up." I don't think everyone can overcome depression, no, not the way they are now. I do not understand why you would scorn those who suffer because you have felt their pain. I assume that would help you empathize with people who suffer depression. Depression is some serious stuff, as much you know apparently.
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"] I think suicide is the most powerful right any one has.. The decision of ceasing to exist.. Its definitely sad, but I think most people who think its cowardly honestly do not deal with deep depression, anxiety or other powerful conditions that warp thoughts.foxhound_fox
I've had problems with depression for the past several years and have never thought for once to end my life. If I can beat the depression than so can anyone else. It is just "giving up."
This is oversimplification.. You arn't just Depressed or not depressed.. Depression has different rates of severity.. Not to mention the turn events that brought upon about this.. Could we say a person who had their entire family killed, basically everything they lived for killing them self as cowardly? I think not.
I think suicide is the most powerful right any one has.. The decision of ceasing to exist.. Its definitely sad, but I think most people who think its cowardly honestly do not deal with deep depression, anxiety or other powerful conditions that warp thoughts.sSubZerOo
We all have emotions and those warp our logic. We all eventually cease to exist in the sense that we die.
I don't think everyone can overcome depression, no, not the way they are now. I do not understand why you would scorn those who suffer because you have felt their pain. I assume that would help you empathize with people who suffer depression. Depression is some serious stuff, as much you know apparently. quiglythegreat
I don't scorn them. If they are willing I would help them in any way I could to overcome that depression. Depression is serious and can only be overcome with friends or family being around to help. Suicide to escape from problems is the "easy way out."
[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]I don't think everyone can overcome depression, no, not the way they are now. I do not understand why you would scorn those who suffer because you have felt their pain. I assume that would help you empathize with people who suffer depression. Depression is some serious stuff, as much you know apparently. foxhound_fox
I don't scorn them. If they are willing I would help them in any way I could to overcome that depression. Depression is serious and can only be overcome with friends or family being around to help. Suicide to escape from problems is the "easy way out."
That "easy way out" description belies your opinion on the subject. Because you were able to overcome, everyone should be able to. Those that can't are lesser beings deserving of ridicule by your standards.
[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]I don't think everyone can overcome depression, no, not the way they are now. I do not understand why you would scorn those who suffer because you have felt their pain. I assume that would help you empathize with people who suffer depression. Depression is some serious stuff, as much you know apparently. foxhound_fox
I don't scorn them. If they are willing I would help them in any way I could to overcome that depression. Depression is serious and can only be overcome with friends or family being around to help. Suicide to escape from problems is the "easy way out."with family and friends trying to help it is not always possible to feel well. It's difficult for people who don't have the physics of their neurology against them, let alone those with chemical imbalances.
That "easy way out" description belies your opinion on the subject. Because you were able to overcome, everyone should be able to. Those that can't are lesser beings deserving of ridicule by your standards.
And you are who, exactly?
rinkegekido2110
Since when am I "ridiculing" them? Since when did I call them "lesser beings." You are pulling things from my statement that I never wrote.
They are cowardly for not facing their problems and overcoming their depression. That doesn't make them any less of a person. They just took the "easy way out" instead of facing what was troubling them.
[QUOTE="rinkegekido2110"]That "easy way out" description belies your opinion on the subject. Because you were able to overcome, everyone should be able to. Those that can't are lesser beings deserving of ridicule by your standards.
And you are who, exactly?
foxhound_fox
Since when am I "ridiculing" them? Since when did I call them "lesser beings." You are pulling things from my statement that I never wrote.
They are cowardly for not facing their problems and overcoming their depression. That doesn't make them any less of a person. They just took the "easy way out" instead of facing what was troubling them.
And isn't this whole topic based off of opinion?
Yes, it is. And yours is that anyone who decides to make an exit rather than tough it out is a coward. What about terminal illnesses? What about crippling disabilities? Because someone wants to die on their terms rather than on some impartial time table, they are cowards?
Yes, it is. And yours is that anyone who decides to make an exit rather than tough it out is a coward. What about terminal illnesses? What about crippling disabilities? Because someone wants to die on their terms rather than on some impartial time table, they are cowards?rinkegekido2110
If I had either a terminal illness or a crippling disability, I would make the best of the life I had. I would not free myself from physical or mental pain, I would take it as a life experience.
It's not a bad choice. Personally, I think we value life just so we serve our biological purpose of existing and creating offspring. Logically, death is probably better, but we're genetically programmed to not see this. I'm sure all those dead people are having a blast compared to us, and nothingness is most certainly a blast.
Our bodies werent made to be merely killed by ourselfs. Suicide is a selfish thought that this world could do without.123625
Most selfish things result in happiness. If it's cowardly and selfish, then it must be good. Keeping all your money for yourself is selfish and cowardly, but damn.... Buying nice cars and 10,000 dollar computers and big houses and nice suits....Well that's not too bad. The, "easy way" out is generally a good way out. If you got caught with drugs, ratting everyone out is the easy way out, but hey, who wouldn't want the easy way out? Sorry, I'm not samurai, I don't care about that honor crap, I want to be happy. This isn't a film/book, this is real life, the pursuit of happiness is what most truly go after, not being honorable.
[QUOTE="123625"]Our bodies werent made to be merely killed by ourselfs. Suicide is a selfish thought that this world could do without.wemhim
Most selfish things result in happiness. If it's cowardly and selfish, then it must be good. Keeping all your money for yourself is selfish and cowardly, but damn.... Buying nice cars and 10,000 dollar computers and big houses and nice suits....Well that's not too bad. Riiight. I'm sure the family and friends of that person who kills himself are just going to be overcome with joy.
[QUOTE="123625"]Our bodies werent made to be merely killed by ourselfs. Suicide is a selfish thought that this world could do without.wemhim
Most selfish things result in happiness. If it's cowardly and selfish, then it must be good. Keeping all your money for yourself is selfish and cowardly, but damn.... Buying nice cars and 10,000 dollar computers and big houses and nice suits....Well that's not too bad. The, "easy way" out is generally a good way out. If you got caught with drugs, ratting everyone out is the easy way out, but hey, who wouldn't want the easy way out? Sorry, I'm not samurai, I don't care about that honor crap, I want to be happy. This isn't a film/book, this is real life, the pursuit of happiness is what most truly go after, not being honorable.
So if it feels good do it? Thats basically waht you're saying. A suicide also affects other people in their lives. Such as freinds and family.
[QUOTE="wemhim"][QUOTE="123625"]Our bodies werent made to be merely killed by ourselfs. Suicide is a selfish thought that this world could do without.elblanquito_81
Most selfish things result in happiness. If it's cowardly and selfish, then it must be good. Keeping all your money for yourself is selfish and cowardly, but damn.... Buying nice cars and 10,000 dollar computers and big houses and nice suits....Well that's not too bad. Riiight. I'm sure the family and friends of that person who kills himself are just going to be overcome with joy.No. But the families out their are also forced to make our clothes in sweat shops in Asia. But we don't seem to care, people are selfish after all. Please, also, not everyone has family and friends. I do, but not everyone does.
You really can't call someone stupid for what they decided...I'd like to call it more like "uninformed"....If the person seriously felt there wasn't anything they can do, and they didn't have the information exposed to them to think the alternatives, then you can't really blame them.
[QUOTE="wemhim"][QUOTE="123625"]Our bodies werent made to be merely killed by ourselfs. Suicide is a selfish thought that this world could do without.123625
Most selfish things result in happiness. If it's cowardly and selfish, then it must be good. Keeping all your money for yourself is selfish and cowardly, but damn.... Buying nice cars and 10,000 dollar computers and big houses and nice suits....Well that's not too bad. The, "easy way" out is generally a good way out. If you got caught with drugs, ratting everyone out is the easy way out, but hey, who wouldn't want the easy way out? Sorry, I'm not samurai, I don't care about that honor crap, I want to be happy. This isn't a film/book, this is real life, the pursuit of happiness is what most truly go after, not being honorable.
So if it feels good do it? Thats basically waht you're saying. A suicide also affects other people in their lives. Such as freinds and family.
Okay, not every, let's say, 60 year old has living family, nor friends(You don't meet a lot of people on retirement, some don't at least). As for young people, well, the family will die too. My leather shoes were made in Indonesia, that just screams sweat shop... People enjoy the misfortunes of others contently. Hell, people that don't support the war ARE paying taxes. Vegetarians purchase fruit from the same guys responsible for cow slaughtering. Few practice what they preach. I know it's sad, but I'm not going to fill this thread with hypocrisy pretending on some great guy, if I was, I'd be doing something besides using this computer, because an HD monitor is such a necessity right? Nothing selfish about it. Starving children could be fed with my Windows Vista computer. But being the selfish human being I am, I don't give a **** about starving children, I care about exploring windows aero. Just like most of YOU selfish people who are too scared to admit it. People don't kill themselves because they want life, not because they want to make their family happy. Nothing wrong with selfishness, it's exciting, it's taboo, like human sexuality.
Some could argue... necessary... They feel unneeded within the larger social oraganism and thus end their lives... Kind of like cells.MattUD1
Of course, Darwin is ignored often. I just don't see what some people offer, for every ugly stupid person that dies, a good looking economy boosting CEO is born.
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