suing a friend for money owed

[QUOTE="kato_"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]How much money are we talking here? ...people always say 'it's the principle of it all' with stuff, but I say 'f*** that'. It comes down to a cost analysis. Is it worth your time (your time is valuable), losing a friend (though he sounds like a real piece of crap anyways), etcSerraph105

sorry guys forgot to say but its about $9000 plus interest counting every second.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]How much money are we talking here? ...people always say 'it's the principle of it all' with stuff, but I say 'f*** that'. It comes down to a cost analysis. Is it worth your time (your time is valuable), losing a friend (though he sounds like a real piece of crap anyways), etckato_

sorry guys forgot to say but its about $9000 plus interest counting every second.

[QUOTE="kato_"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]How much money are we talking here? ...people always say 'it's the principle of it all' with stuff, but I say 'f*** that'. It comes down to a cost analysis. Is it worth your time (your time is valuable), losing a friend (though he sounds like a real piece of crap anyways), etcWolls

sorry guys forgot to say but its about $9000 plus interest counting every second.

Without that written agreement, you have no real grounds to make a case on.

Wasdie

But neither does his "friend"... So OP could go to the Police and say he stole it... Which he more or less did, so it isn't like he is lying...

EDIT: Also, OP... You more or less have no way of getting that money back (short of you going to police and proving that your friend stole the money, in which case your CC company may remove the balance, though doubtful that far along)...

You could also tell your "friend" you are going to the police and reporting that he stole from you, emphasizing that if he doesn't want legal action taken against him, he better give you your money back...

As far as suing goes, no... You can't sue for your money back... You will say he owes you money, he will say he does not, you will produce credit card charges as proof, and the judge will say 1) "how do I know you didn't make these purchases" and 2) "how do I know you agreed on repayment" (which is the big one, as who made the purchase can be found out from the police)... And without written agreement, you have no proof...

Honestly OP you have effed yourself... You shouldn't have given such a POS your credit card info... And right when he maxed your card out you should have called you CC company and froze the card and then called the police and reported the information stolen... Not freezing it, not reporting it, and waiting A YEAR, has pretty much ruined all chances of you proving anything or getting any money back...

[QUOTE="Wolls"][QUOTE="kato_"]

sorry guys forgot to say but its about $9000 plus interest counting every second.

surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Without that written agreement, you have no real grounds to make a case on.

Buttons1990

As far as suing goes, no... You can't sue for your money back... You will say he owes you money, he will say he does not, you will produce credit card charges as proof, and the judge will say 1) "how do I know you didn't make these purchases" and 2) "how do I know you agreed on repayment" (which is the big one, as who made the purchase can be found out from the police)... And without written agreement, you have no proof...

This all depends on what the judge believes and I have a hard time believing a judge would find he gave someone $9000 worth of gifts.

Again, most of the charges were not authorized and should be disputed.

I would never let someone borrow that much. Maybe, just maybe half to help out some. Only if I really trust them though.

[QUOTE="Buttons1990"]

[QUOTE="Wasdie"]

Without that written agreement, you have no real grounds to make a case on.

psychobrew

As far as suing goes, no... You can't sue for your money back... You will say he owes you money, he will say he does not, you will produce credit card charges as proof, and the judge will say 1) "how do I know you didn't make these purchases" and 2) "how do I know you agreed on repayment" (which is the big one, as who made the purchase can be found out from the police)... And without written agreement, you have no proof...

This all depends on what the judge believes and I have a hard time believing a judge would find he gave someone $9000 worth of gifts.

Again, most of the charges were not authorized and should be disputed.

Should have been disputed nearly a year ago when they charges were made. By letting it go this long the TC has given his implicit approval to them.

Without that written agreement, you have no real grounds to make a case on.

Wasdie

I don't think he's your friend.

Even if it you just had a verbal contract. If you can still produce some evidence, as you said text messages that he owes you this money. Then it's an open closed case. And ruling would be in your favor.

Thanks for all the comments guys. I have read everyones comments and i think the majority have a positive view about it which i was hoping for. Yes i know it still doesn't mean anything but it's a start for me to approach this with confidence.

Yes i know i have failed to protect myself from this by lending a friend money without written agreement and that i have learned a lesson. I may not have explained the situation here clearly so i will say it again.

This is all verbal agreement and like i said that i have a witness who was there at the time of this agreement.

So my friend borrowed my CC to buy something online and i agreed to let him use my CC just as long as he gives me the money first. So everything is well i took the money and i let him go on the computer to buy the items online. This agreement was only for the certain amount of money he needed and its pretty obvious that it doesn't mean that you can max out the CC which he did. In other words, he kept making other transaction without my approval because my CC information was saved on his online store account.

My problem here is i am having trouble getting him to pay off all the transaction he made on the CC.
The reason it took almost over a year (to be exact its only been about 7 months) is because he keeps saying that i will have the money next week ect...

So yes he agrees that he owes me money and i have text messages to prove that but the thing that really bothers me is its taking him forever to pay me back so i am starting to worry.

Now my plan now is to tell him that if he doesn't start paying me back i will take him to court and for my own security im going to have him sign an agreement form RIGHT NOW saying that he owes me $9000 dollars. Also i'm going to a bank to have him automatically have money taken out of his bank into my bank until my CC is paid in FULL. If he does not agree to any of this then this will get a little messy.

Wish me luck i really hope i don't want to go through all this hassle of going to court etc.. because i'm starting college and i don't want to be forced to take out my college money $10,000 just to pay for his loan. Which took me 2 years to save up.

How much does he own you?Solid_Tango

Well considering how much his friend stole from him I'd say the OP got owned pretty hard. :P

DON'T GO TO COURT

srs

Go to the bank. Say it was fruad. They will return your money and deal with the legal issues saving you time, money and headache.

?????

PROFFIT brosofegous

[QUOTE="Solid_Tango"]How much does he own you?howlrunner13

Well considering how much his friend stole from him I'd say the OP got owned pretty hard. :P

Tough call - using someone else's credit card without consent is fraud, I believe, and that's a serious charge, regardless of the amount of money involved. Perhaps you can subtly coax an admission of the amount out of him in written format. But if you're not careful about the way you go about it, he'll probably see right through the attempt and refuse to continue the conversation.

A simple way to do this would be to bring up the subject via texting or some other traceable communication (recording a phone call would also work). Bring up the topic and say "You know, I'm still waiting for that $9000 you borrowed earlier and told me you'd pay back. Am I ever going to get it back?" If he says "yes, I'll pay it back" or anything to that effect, you have an admission that he owes you that amount of money. He doesn't have to say the figure himself - he just has to respond in the affirmative if asked whether or not he owes that amount of money.

If it ain't in writting is didn't happen. Thats how the legal system works. He said, she said just doesn't win cases. Your not going to get a fraud either as you willingly gave your credit card info for your friend to use.

But if you want honest legal advice go talk to a lawyer, i wonder sometimes why people come to ot to ask random people on internet about some very serious matters.

Go to a loan shark and tell them that your friend's legs are the collateral for the loan.

How about friend go talk to someone who actually knows the legal system, aka a lawyer, acting on basics of advice from a fourm is dumb,

Or you could go bluerayhidef way

DON'T GO TO COURT

srs

Go to the bank. Say it was fruad. They will return your money and deal with the legal issues saving you time, money and headache.

?????

PROFFIT brosofegous

Couth_

This.

He used your card without your permission.

[QUOTE="Couth_"]

DON'T GO TO COURT

srs

Go to the bank. Say it was fruad. They will return your money and deal with the legal issues saving you time, money and headache.

?????

PROFFIT brosofegous

Superbored

This.

He used your card without your permission.

He willingly gave out his credit card to his friend to use. I'm pretty sure that cancels any fraud protection.

i think the only person who could resolve this would be judge judy

Vinegar_Strokes

[QUOTE="Superbored"]

[QUOTE="Couth_"]

DON'T GO TO COURT

srs

Go to the bank. Say it was fruad. They will return your money and deal with the legal issues saving you time, money and headache.

?????

PROFFIT brosofegous

James161324

This.

He used your card without your permission.

He willingly gave out his credit card to his friend to use. I'm pretty sure that cancels any fraud protection.

He only authorized his friend to make purchases he had already payed for in cash.

His friend, though, saved his credit card information and used it without his permission.

That should count for something, but I'm not really a lawyer.

What did he buy? Considering that he maxed out a $9000 credit card, he must've bought quite a bit of stuff.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]How much money are we talking here? ...people always say 'it's the principle of it all' with stuff, but I say 'f*** that'. It comes down to a cost analysis. Is it worth your time (your time is valuable), losing a friend (though he sounds like a real piece of crap anyways), etckato_

sorry guys forgot to say but its about $9000 plus interest counting every second.

[QUOTE="horgen123"]You don't have much chance of winning I think. You let him have your credit card, he probably copied what he needed to make use of it online without having the actual card. thegerg

You will need a police report on him if you are taking this to court

[QUOTE="James161324"]

[QUOTE="Superbored"]

This.

He used your card without your permission.

Superbored

He willingly gave out his credit card to his friend to use. I'm pretty sure that cancels any fraud protection.

He only authorized his friend to make purchases he had already payed for in cash.

His friend, though, saved his credit card information and used it without his permission.

That should count for something, but I'm not really a lawyer.

I don't think it changes anything. I don't think any company is going to reverse a 9 thousand dollar charge after a end user gave out there infomation. I know know there terms of service but i'm pretty sure they aren't liable for an issue were the end user is this stupid, and rightly so.

1. He gave out his credit card infomation to his friend to supposedly use, thats one of the biggest stuipdiest moves in the book.

2. He has no hard evidence proving that any of this happened.

3. His and his friend supposedly agreed to one deal and his friend payed in cash. Why do crimals use cash, becuase it can't be traced.

Unless you have some hard evidence you can pull out of no were, in my opinion, your pretty much screwed. While i would still reccomend consulting with a laywer. But from the infomation i have seen you don't have a fraud case as you willingly gave out your credit card and allowed him to use it. And a court case i don't see any evidence or really anything that adds up. Your not going to a win a 9 thousand dollar lawsuit based on an witness, and a text message that says next to nothing.

[QUOTE="Superbored"]

[QUOTE="James161324"]

He willingly gave out his credit card to his friend to use. I'm pretty sure that cancels any fraud protection.

James161324

He only authorized his friend to make purchases he had already payed for in cash.

His friend, though, saved his credit card information and used it without his permission.

That should count for something, but I'm not really a lawyer.

I don't think it changes anything. I don't think any company is going to reverse a 9 thousand dollar charge after a end user gave out there infomation. I know know there terms of service but i'm pretty sure they aren't liable for an issue were the end user is this stupid, and rightly so.

1. He gave out his credit card infomation to his friend to supposedly use, thats one of the biggest stuipdiest moves in the book.

2. He has no hard evidence proving that any of this happened.

3. His and his friend supposedly agreed to one deal and his friend payed in cash. Why do crimals use cash, becuase it can't be traced.

Unless you have some hard evidence you can pull out of no were, in my opinion, your pretty much screwed. While i would still reccomend consulting with a laywer. But from the infomation i have seen you don't have a fraud case as you willingly gave out your credit card and allowed him to use it. And a court case i don't see any evidence or really anything that adds up. Your not going to a win a 9 thousand dollar lawsuit based on an witness, and a text message that says next to nothing.

If there was no written agreement, you don't have a case. The court would just consider the money a gift and rule in his favor.

[QUOTE="James161324"]

[QUOTE="Superbored"]

He only authorized his friend to make purchases he had already payed for in cash.

His friend, though, saved his credit card information and used it without his permission.

That should count for something, but I'm not really a lawyer.

Couth_

I don't think it changes anything. I don't think any company is going to reverse a 9 thousand dollar charge after a end user gave out there infomation. I know know there terms of service but i'm pretty sure they aren't liable for an issue were the end user is this stupid, and rightly so.

1. He gave out his credit card infomation to his friend to supposedly use, thats one of the biggest stuipdiest moves in the book.

2. He has no hard evidence proving that any of this happened.

3. His and his friend supposedly agreed to one deal and his friend payed in cash. Why do crimals use cash, becuase it can't be traced.

Unless you have some hard evidence you can pull out of no were, in my opinion, your pretty much screwed. While i would still reccomend consulting with a laywer. But from the infomation i have seen you don't have a fraud case as you willingly gave out your credit card and allowed him to use it. And a court case i don't see any evidence or really anything that adds up. Your not going to a win a 9 thousand dollar lawsuit based on an witness, and a text message that says next to nothing.

He's waited 7 months. I really don't think the bank is going to have his back now. If he wanted to claim unauthorized usage he should have done so ass soon as the charges came up. Waiting all this time he's given implicit authorization to the charges.

[QUOTE="Couth_"][QUOTE="James161324"]

I don't think it changes anything. I don't think any company is going to reverse a 9 thousand dollar charge after a end user gave out there infomation. I know know there terms of service but i'm pretty sure they aren't liable for an issue were the end user is this stupid, and rightly so.

1. He gave out his credit card infomation to his friend to supposedly use, thats one of the biggest stuipdiest moves in the book.

2. He has no hard evidence proving that any of this happened.

3. His and his friend supposedly agreed to one deal and his friend payed in cash. Why do crimals use cash, becuase it can't be traced.

Unless you have some hard evidence you can pull out of no were, in my opinion, your pretty much screwed. While i would still reccomend consulting with a laywer. But from the infomation i have seen you don't have a fraud case as you willingly gave out your credit card and allowed him to use it. And a court case i don't see any evidence or really anything that adds up. Your not going to a win a 9 thousand dollar lawsuit based on an witness, and a text message that says next to nothing.

worlock77

He's waited 7 months. I really don't think the bank is going to have his back now. If he wanted to claim unauthorized usage he should have done so ass soon as the charges came up. Waiting all this time he's given implicit authorization to the charges.

Exactly. The only way that works is if it's done within a few days of when the charges are made.

I really don't thinkworlock77

[QUOTE="worlock77"] I really don't thinkCouth_

Within a few days or weeks? Of course. After seven months? Unlikely. The bank will assume he was okay with the charges by that point.

I'm wondering why the OP let this go on so long. If a friend stole my credit or debit card, I would be on the phone with the bank or cc company right away getting the card cancelled and the charges refunded.

[QUOTE="worlock77"] I really don't thinkCouth_

Working at a bank doesn't really mean a whole lot in and of itself. You're telling me that if someone waits and waits while charges on on their accound and then months or more down the line they decide they don't want that on their account they can just say "fraud" and get it cleared? Sorry, but I call BS. Were that the case no one would have credit card debt.

Unlikely.cmdrmonkey45

[QUOTE="Couth_"][QUOTE="worlock77"] I really don't thinkworlock77

Working at a bank doesn't really mean a whole lot in and of itself. You're telling me that if someone waits and waits while charges on on their accound and then months or more down the line they decide they don't want that on their account they can just say "fraud" and get it cleared? Sorry, but I call BS. Were that the case no one would have credit card debt.

You guys need to stop spreading misinformation you don't have a clue how the system works.

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="Couth_"] This thread is filled with "I think" "I don't think" "herp" I work at a bank. I'm telling you they will reimburse his money and prosecute his friend. Stop spreading misinformationCouth_

Working at a bank doesn't really mean a whole lot in and of itself. You're telling me that if someone waits and waits while charges on on their accound and then months or more down the line they decide they don't want that on their account they can just say "fraud" and get it cleared? Sorry, but I call BS. Were that the case no one would have credit card debt.

You guys need to stop spreading misinformation you don't have a clue how the system works.

What exactly do you do at this bank? Are you a teller? A loan officer? Manager? Do you handle and decide such claims? If so how often is it that a person decides to file fraud on charges that are more than half a year old, and how often are the charges in such cases reversed?

What exactly do you do at this bank? Are you a teller? A loan officer? Manager? Do you handle and decide such claims? If so how often is it that a person decides to file fraud on charges that are more than half a year old, and how often are the charges in such cases reversed?

worlock77

[QUOTE="worlock77"]What exactly do you do at this bank? Are you a teller? A loan officer? Manager? Do you handle and decide such claims? If so how often is it that a person decides to file fraud on charges that are more than half a year old, and how often are the charges in such cases reversed?

Couth_

- Ok so maybe your bank is lenient. What's to say his would be? I know mine wasn't when I had a similar (but small) case several years ago.

- I don't think anyone's really trying to discourage him, just pointing out his foolishness. At any rate several people have suggested he get intouch with an attorney rather than making legal decisions based on advice from a gaming message board.

Ok so maybe your bank is lenient. What's to say his would be? I know mine wasn't when I had a similar (but small) case several years ago.

- I don't think anyone's really trying to discourage him, just pointing out his foolishness. At any rate several people have suggested he get intouch with an attorney rather than making legal decisions based on advice from a gaming message board.

worlock77

Also an attorney is going to need money up front like I said the bank is free. He should see the bank first

I don't think it changes anything. I don't think any company is going to reverse a 9 thousand dollar charge after a end user gave out there infomation. I know know there terms of service but i'm pretty sure they aren't liable for an issue were the end user is this stupid, and rightly so.

1. He gave out his credit card infomation to his friend to supposedly use, thats one of the biggest stuipdiest moves in the book.

2. He has no hard evidence proving that any of this happened.

3. His and his friend supposedly agreed to one deal and his friend payed in cash. Why do crimals use cash, becuase it can't be traced.

Unless you have some hard evidence you can pull out of no were, in my opinion, your pretty much screwed. While i would still reccomend consulting with a laywer. But from the infomation i have seen you don't have a fraud case as you willingly gave out your credit card and allowed him to use it. And a court case i don't see any evidence or really anything that adds up. Your not going to a win a 9 thousand dollar lawsuit based on an witness, and a text message that says next to nothing.

James161324

I give my credit card information out to restaurants, brick and mortar stores, online stores all the time. If they store my credit card information and charge me for things I didn't purchase, that's fraud. I would probably contact the credit card company and then a lawyer if they're unable to help. But he definitely needs to do something.