support our troops

Yeah those people arguements are flawed though.. Christanity or any major religion has had that problem.

sSubZerOo

Maybe, I don't really know. I don't know the issue well enough, so I'm not going to try to support one side or the other.

My original point I was trying to make is that we are beyond asking why we went to war with Iraq. It's a pointless question. The question that should be asked instead is whether or not we should stay in Iraq and proceed on our current course, or whether we should seriously consider an alternative strategy because the one we are currently employing isn't working.

So what is the REAL reason for being in Iraq?

Decessus

Lord knows. People seem to think it's all over oil... i dont think so. The billions spent on war surely isn't worth the oil, but what do i know. It could be to simply have a government in the middle east that answers to the US and UK. Who knows.

What we know for sure is that it sure as hell isn't to stop a guy using his nuclear bombs on us, as we were told.

[QUOTE="Decessus"]

So what is the REAL reason for being in Iraq?

Ninja-Vox

Lord knows. People seem to think it's all over oil... i dont think so. The billions spent on war surely isn't worth the oil, but what do i know. It could be to simply have a government in the middle east that answers to the US and UK. Who knows.

What we know for sure is that it sure as hell isn't to stop a guy using his nuclear bombs on us, as we were told.

Do you think we should leave?

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Yeah those people arguements are flawed though.. Christanity or any major religion has had that problem.

Decessus

Maybe, I don't really know. I don't know the issue well enough, so I'm not going to try to support one side or the other.

My original point I was trying to make is that we are beyond asking why we went to war with Iraq. It's a pointless question. The question that should be asked instead is whether or not we should stay in Iraq and proceed on our current course, or whether we should seriously consider an alternative strategy because the one we are currently employing isn't working.

Sorry, but it's not a pointless question at all. If that's the case, heck your President could tell you France are harboring a deadly virus which they intend to release on the world... six months later, you're occupying France and "hey, we're here to save the poor french people from their evil government..."

"What? They have an evil government? I thought it was because they were going to attack us with a virus?"

"Yeah well... no point getting into that now, we're already here...."

Do you think we should leave?

Decessus

No. You cannot enter a country under the guise that you're stopping a mad dictator from attacking you, then change your answer to "helping the poor iraqi people", then to top it all off pull out leaving behind a decimated country in full scale civil war.

We've seriously screwed this country up. And they have to stay and repair their damage.

Why should I support the troops? What are they doing apart from their jobs?

I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone but I do not see the point of supporting the maming and killing of other human beings, for whatever reasons. They are doing their jobs; plain & simple. What did they think when they were signing up for the army?

Sorry, but it's not a pointless question at all. If that's the case, heck your President could tell you France are harboring a deadly virus which they intend to release on the world... six months later, you're occupying France and "hey, we're here to save the poor french people from their evil government..."

"What? They have an evil government? I thought it was because they were going to attack us with a virus?"

"Yeah well... no point getting into that now, we're already here...."

Ninja-Vox

Perhaps you're right. I was thinking very narrowly and only considering how the knowledge of why we went to war to begin with would help us at all in our current situation. In my opinion, such information would be pretty much useless.

However, if it were to be discovered that we went to war because of the misuse of power by the President and his administration, then I believe he should be held accountable for those action.

Why should I support the troops? What are they doing apart from their jobs?

I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone but I do not see the point of supporting the maming and killing of other human beings, for whatever reasons. They are doing their jobs; plain & simple. What did they think when they were signing up for the army?

Total-KO

I suppose you feel the same way about police and firemen also?

personally i wouldn't mind the troops staying if they were rebuilding iraq, but i'ld want the whole thing done by someone like the UN which won't do what the US apparently did when they tryed to rebuild the countrye.g pay sub-contractors more than is resnoble, not asking the Iraqis what they actually want and need, giving money away to american people to make sure the new iraqi guverment dosn't have anything to use. Personally i'ld want the whole thing organised by the UN properly.

[QUOTE="giton"]

it is wrong to wage wars of aggression, which is what this war is. it is an unjustified invasion of another nation. tens of thousands of innocent people have been killed in this war. it's dreadful.

i cannot possibly support the troops because they are not innocents in this struggle. in fact, i despise them. each and every one of them is old enough to know right from wrong, yet they choose the wrong. the only moral response to an order to go fight in afghanistan or iraq is to flatly refuse to do so.

the fact is, everyone who participates in this war is a murderer, and every supporter is an accomplice to murder. none are deserving of honor, respect, or support.

Decessus

Innocent people are always killed in war. Do you think during World War II that the only people who died were soldiers? It's terrible yes, but it's also unavoidable.

You also apparently have no clue as to what military service is, or what duty is. It's not about whether the men and women of the armed forces believe what they are doing is right and wrong. It's about following orders and doing the duty that you swore an oath to do when you joined the military in the first place.

You can question the validity of this war, and the decisions that have been made by those in power all you want. Please don't disrespect the men and women that put themselves in harms way every single day so you can be an idiot and post stupid things here on a video game website.

what you are regurgitating are the justifications and minimizations that the war pigs invent for the gullible masses so that they won't have to acknowledge logic and so they can assuage their guilt.

defense against attackers is not wrong, but that doesn't describe the war in iraq and afghanistan. it was an invasion, a war of aggression, not a defense against an attack. the fact that innocents are often killed in war should make it even more imperative that we do not engage in one unless we are defending against an attack. the loss of innocents is terrible, yes, unavoidable maybe, but never ever acceptable period.

i have not served in the military. i already knew who i was when i was 9 and i knew for certain when i was 13 that i would never be any man's slave or servant, that I wasn't a joiner or a follower, and that there is no such thing as duty to one's country. i had already learned that following orders does not absolve a person of responsibility for his actions. swearing an oath to follow orders or to serve anyone blindly is foolish, and no defense to the commission of contemptuous acts.

This is really very simple:

You were told that Saddam Hussein had nuclear and chemical missiles which he was going to use to kill you all. He had no such weapons.

You were told Saddam Hussein was harboring terrorists and was connected with 9/11. He had nothing to do with 9/11, and rather hated the likes of al queda rather than supported them.

You were slowly told that you were at war to save the poor people of Iraq.... that's not what they said to begin with. Did we not go to war on the basis that we were going to be attacked by Saddam? Why the sudden change? Had they said in the first place that Saddam posed no thread but they wanted to remove him to help the people of Iraq.... would we have gone to war? Heck no.

And finally, the troops aren't fighting for us at all. You haven't been invaded. You haven't been attacked, or threatened. YOU invaded another country. YOU are the attackers. Iraq posed no threat to your "freedom" at all.

End of discussion really. Support the troops by all means, but dont for a minute try and claim that they're fighting a just war.

Ninja-Vox

all true, and very well said. i was dumbfounded when a few weeks after the US invaded Irag I began to hear people say that we were paying them back for 911. i couldn't believe that the lies worked so fast, and so well.

Had we been told the REAL reason for invading Iraq, you can bet the vote would've been different. So the arguement of "support our troops, they're fighting for your freedom!" is complete, grade-a bullcrap. I'm not denying any bravery, but our troops are fighting because they've been told to, not because our "freedom" is being threatened. Iraq posed no threat to us whatsoever. You were lied to. Simple as that.Ninja-Vox

Just a thought for you. One of the greatest, and most insidious, myths of statism is that "we" are the government. You and I are not the rulers, are we? We did not send troops to Iraq. If I was the ruler, I assure you I would not have attacked Irag. How about you?

When we identify with our rulers like that, we begin to say silly things like "our troops are fighting" or "we bombed Irag", when in fact you and I don't have any troops at our personal disposal, nor have either of us probably ever been in a jet bomber.

I don't know about you, but for me the question is not whether or not I will support our troops. It's whether or not I will support our ruler's hired killers. I will not.

[QUOTE="Ninja-Vox"]Had we been told the REAL reason for invading Iraq, you can bet the vote would've been different. So the arguement of "support our troops, they're fighting for your freedom!" is complete, grade-a bullcrap. I'm not denying any bravery, but our troops are fighting because they've been told to, not because our "freedom" is being threatened. Iraq posed no threat to us whatsoever. You were lied to. Simple as that.giton

Just a thought for you. One of the greatest, and most insidious, myths of statism is that "we" are the government. You and I are not the rulers, are we? We did not send troops to Iraq. If I was the ruler, I assure you I would not have attacked Irag. How about you?

When we identify with our rulers like that, we begin to say silly things like "our troops are fighting" or "we bombed Irag", when in fact you and I don't have any troops at our personal disposal, nor have either of us probably ever been in a jet bomber.

I don't know about you, but for me the question is not whether or not I will support our troops. It's whether or not I will support our ruler's hired killers. I will not.

I don't know about you, but for me the question is not whether or not I will support our troops. It's whether or not I will support our ruler's hired killers. I will not.

giton

Hired killers? Does it feel good to spew such lines? Does it make you feel all edgy and cool? You have no clue what the military is about.....they don't walk around killing.

[QUOTE="giton"]

I don't know about you, but for me the question is not whether or not I will support our troops. It's whether or not I will support our ruler's hired killers. I will not.

LJS9502_basic

Hired killers? Does it feel good to spew such lines? Does it make you feel all edgy and cool? You have no clue what the military is about.....they don't walk around killing.

I'm sure you have a euphemism you prefer.

it's a volunteer force; no one is conscripted. soldiers kill when directed to.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="giton"]

I don't know about you, but for me the question is not whether or not I will support our troops. It's whether or not I will support our ruler's hired killers. I will not.

giton

Hired killers? Does it feel good to spew such lines? Does it make you feel all edgy and cool? You have no clue what the military is about.....they don't walk around killing.

I'm sure you have a euphemism you prefer.

it's a volunteer force; no one is conscripted. soldiers kill when directed to.

[QUOTE="Decessus"]

So what is the REAL reason for being in Iraq?

Ninja-Vox

Lord knows. People seem to think it's all over oil... i dont think so. The billions spent on war surely isn't worth the oil, but what do i know. It could be to simply have a government in the middle east that answers to the US and UK. Who knows.

What we know for sure is that it sure as hell isn't to stop a guy using his nuclear bombs on us, as we were told.

Looks like there was bad intelligence that almost everyone in both political parties believed. That's why people on both sides ok'ed it. People act as if it's a diabolical plan by the Bush administration. I'm open to the fact that it was falsified inteligence, but evidence has to be presented. People with agendas love to pin things on politicians they hate. Aside from that, this has kind of gone off topic. The topic was simply support our troops.

[QUOTE="giton"][QUOTE="Blood-Scribe"][QUOTE="whoody12"][QUOTE="NathanHawkins"]

[QUOTE="xtn702"]I dont think that right has been messed with in a while dude... :|UrbanSpartan125

It's messed with all the time. It's a constant struggle.

only in the heads of war-lusty people

serieus, do you guys really think there wil be another 9-11, dont make me laugh, its idiotic, we are fighting against sand now

its reduculous

GET OUR TROOPS HOME

You seriously think that our freedom isn't constantly being contested for? Sure we may not be directly assaulted by a Country right now, but that doesn't mean that our freedom isn't being screwed with.

the freedom you think you have is an illusion. just don't ask your rulers about it, they'll tell you otherwise. now, take the red pill.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-07-23-bush-protesters_x.htm

[QUOTE="monkeytoes61"]I don't care if you don't like Bush, or if you are against the war. Support our troops. Remember, they are fighting for your right to protest.TallicaFan2005

No they're not.

Our right to protest was never threatened by Iraq.....yoshi-lnex

Exactly. I want to rip the yellow ribbons off of people's cars...It's just saying "Hey I'm Rush Limbaugh".

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="giton"]

I don't know about you, but for me the question is not whether or not I will support our troops. It's whether or not I will support our ruler's hired killers. I will not.

giton

Hired killers? Does it feel good to spew such lines? Does it make you feel all edgy and cool? You have no clue what the military is about.....they don't walk around killing.

I'm sure you have a euphemism you prefer.

it's a volunteer force; no one is conscripted. soldiers kill when directed to.

This is yet another old thread bumped by someone with too much time on their hands.

IT'S JUST GOING TO GET LOCKED SO DON'T BOTHER WITH IT.

i support our troops but not the war. there is a difference

do the troops a real favor and get them out of iraq. the iraqis recently demanded a timetable for withdrawl so they clearly arent wanted

and the 911 hijackers were saudis trained in afganistan. and since Bin Laden was responsible it was counter productive to take out Hussein since he didnt like Bin Laden and thats why he made sure there was no al quida in iraq. in case you werent aware there were no suicide bombers blowing up schools mosks and markets b4 the invasion. sure Hussein wasnt a golden leader but better than walking down the street and the bus next to you blows up imo.

id also like to note that iraq has a 80billion dollar surplus in their budget but the us is 9.5 Trillion dollars in debt. and we had a surplus when clinton left office if im correct.

sorry if this has been discussed before in this topic i only read the first page

This thread is a year old, what is it doing here?Blood-Scribe

I do not support the troops.

Yes, they may be stuck with their own contraversial battle between either doing the right thing or being a loyal subject to their military chain of command, but they can make choices too. A lot of the choices I see the soldiers doing are to just shoot at random civilian targets either because they're bored or some fanatics taking out rage on every arab/islamic character they see. You can find videos of our men in uniform doing disgusting things like and more throughout the net, and stuff like that coming from our military isn't worth any of my tax dollars going towards their military budget.

I don't have much support for our troops. :(

Our right to protest was never threatened by Iraq.....yoshi-lnex

right on the money

[QUOTE="NathanHawkins"]

[QUOTE="Hewkii"][QUOTE="monkeytoes61"]so you are against freedom, and protecting out country?monkeytoes61

Actually, they were Saudi...at least 15 of 19 were.

they are fighting for you. and fighting for a country in dire need of help. if you can't understand that, I feel sorry for you.monkeytoes61

U.S.A?

I do not support our troops. I have never once bought a yellow ribbon, mailed a care package, or sent a letter of support to any member of the US armed forces. This is what I define as support. Respecting a person's individual choice to join the armed forces, not insulting a person for the actions that a small percentage of the people in their profession commit, respecting a man or woman who has garnered more life experience in a year than I will in the majority of my lifetime, these are not gestures of support to the principles of those who choose to join the US army, but extensions of humanity and understanding to fellow human beings. To blame people for following their beliefs is immoral and against the original tenants of American society. The people who have posted on this blog that the US troops in Iraq are murderers who should disobey orders to their own personal ruin obviously have no idea what the soldiers in the military stand for nor what kind of chaos that would inspire in the infrastructure of the military as a whole. Every single person in this country is entitled to an opinion and should not have to endure the ignorant insults of those whose opinions differ from theirs. I have noticed that the people who have talked here about their personal disrespect of the military uniform have done little else but that, talk. At least the people who do respect our country's troops, whether they be war protesters trying to bring soldiers home or soldiers and their families in support of the war, have the guts to go out and dosomething in support of their beliefs, instead of comfortably blogging about them in their homes.Jiraiya22