Surprise! Bruce Jenner is now Caitlyn Jenner!

Doesn't really matter what you personally think is acceptable.

And science is actually not on your side. Science only tells us that her born sex is male. Gender is an entirely different thing. And also, scientific research has also gone into establishing all this research on gender dysphoria and the best way to treat that.

Again, you can go on and on about how she was a born male, but it's not really constructive, relevant, or enlightening. We are all perfectly aware that Caitlin Jenner was born a male. We don't really need you to repeat that over and over.

Using a car analogy is pretty ridiculous when we're talking about people. I'm fine having a conversation with you since you're being polite, but can we not engage in this kind of silliness?

@GreySeal9: science IS on my side. I have taught it, and very familiar with it. if you think what is thought about in your mind is what is defined by science then I suggest you take one of my old classes. I don't teach any longer.

FYI... I am stating he is STILL a male. The cover of the book was changed....that's all.

I'm glad you don't, it's because of them....most people outside of the U.S think all of Amercans are stupid!

Your personal experiences as a teacher are not relevant to this discussion. Not to mention that I have no way of knowing if you actually were a teacher or not.

Either give a substantial rebuttal or don't waste my time.

Agreed, bruce was a good looking guy and one of my favorite athletes when I was a kid.

Thought it was because of Honey Boo Boo, Jersey Shore, Mob Wives, Duck Dynasty... I wouldn't recognise them either, so fear not! Hell, I only last year figured out that Hannah Montana and Miley Cyrus were the same person (since I had never seen either)! Also I know Bieber is Canadian so I don't blame you guys for that either.

Basing one's opinions of Americans in general on the Kardashians (especially when most Americans don't live the way the Kardashians do) is pretty stupid.

@GreySeal9: Okay. You tell me how an X + Y chromosome is defined.

We've already been over this. XY means that someone was born male. But that doesn't mean their gender is male, which is why they take steps to make gender and sex line up. Do some research on gender dsyphoria.

Nobody is denying that Jenner has the male chromosome. But it doesn't really matter. In modern society, we can accommodate people with gender dysphoria. Simply going on and on about their born gender is not really helpful or enlightening. There's no reason to maintain such a black and white outlook, but of course you're free to do so.

Yes, ignore everyone who does not agree with you. Ignorance is bliss.

You are incapable of having a grown up conversation yet you call me a crybaby.

You'd be surprized

LOL....thanks

Actually when I first heard about Caitlyn Jenner on Vanity Fair my first thought was "There's another Jenner? Ugh" and not until someone pointed out to me that she used to be Bruce Jenner. I think she transitioned very well.

Also, "I have several gay/black friends..." is the new "I'm not racist but..."

If that makes him happy thats all that matters.

I was told I was not allowed to say "I don't care what this guy does as long as it doesn't affect me, just don't tell me it is normal". I was told I cannot say I don't care what he does then comment that I don't think it is normal. I was told I had to either say "I care" or "I don't care", which is bullshit and forcing me down one path. You are not allowed to meet halfway on this subject, you have to 100% succumb to the whole LGBT movement or be damned as a homophobe. This is a simple fact, it happened right here with this guy.

Go on a LGBT forum right now and type "It's okay if you're homosexual, but I don't believe it is normal" and see what happens.

Wtf kind of psychobabble bullshit is this? My problem is not that I am succumbing to their attempts to force me because I assure you that will never happen, it is that they are trying it at all I disagree with. This is a discussion, I am merely discussing my views on the matter. Trying to turn this into some kind of mind bending couch session over it is laughable. You are making a bigger deal about this than it ever was to me. I am merely debating on principle here.

Get a new hobby dude, internet psychology is not for you.

/yawn

Now I'm bored. Buhbye.

I have had a bunch of friends and family ask me how I feel about Caitlyn's transition (since I'm also transitioning male to female) and honestly it's hard for me to care much about it. I'm happy the public reactions have been positive so far (save for here but this is a video game forum so honestly I'm not surprised), but it's not like I'll learn anything "new" about being trans as a result of following her transition. I'm too concerned about my own transition, getting my name changed, finishing uni, and landing a job to obsess about Caitlyn's every move and/or preach about how her transition will impact the public's perception of trans people.

With all of that said, I'm still happy that her transition is going well and I wish her the best of luck going forward.

Folks, remember the Golden Rule

Don’t be a jerk.

On-topic:

Physically, it is an amazing change.

I do not know about Caitlyn Jenner's mental state in great detail. Also, I am not going to act like I am qualified to attribute an illness to this individual if there were one, but she seems to love herself and ready for the new experience which says a lot. If more people were that honest with themselves, we might have some real social progress.

It was such an interesting story until she went off about how she didn't like Obama because she "believes in the Constitution".

Ugh, don't care anymore, she can side ideologically with those that think she's a godless heathen.

I said......bye. I already explained myself, if you are too stubborn or dense to just accept my point of view (not agree, accept) then I cannot help you. I am not going to keep explaining myself to you because despite what you think, I really don't care in the end. I attempted to re-articulate my point of view in a way you could understand it about 10 posts up, it didn't take, I'm okay with that. Bye.

You're trying too hard, really.

lmao what a hypocrite

this is what happens when you surround a champion with an indomitable will with a bunch of shallow twits.

he determines he can out shallow twit them all and becomes the first 65 year old woman in history to be the cover model of a fashion magazine.

that's how badass catnyss jenner is.

first she won those games and now she is the most famous and photogenic cardassian of them all.

(btw, the word "retard" is banned here? how odd. idiot and moron are clinical terms more so than the word "retard" has ever been but nothing has ever been said about using those. what a strange rule to ban some commonly used slang term that has nothing to do with any clinical evaluation yet let clinical terms for people of low i.q. to stand.

anyway sorry for using offensive language. you kinda caught me by surprise with this one since i normally use words like "goat fucker" and "cuntbrain" to describe the dumb among us.

Levine and Marks 1928 IQ classification

https://books.google.com/books?id=sMSWbI23RMUC&pg=PA518&lpg=PA518&dq=Levine+and+Marks+1928+IQ+classification&source=bl&ots=PeJz-mVtH3&sig=UvlblFLZazSLRpZVIDNExQ_wz34&hl=en&sa=X&ei=q0dzVcmbMIGGNoH5gYAI&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=Levine%20and%20Marks%201928%20IQ%20classification&f=false

https://jpraptor.wordpress.com/2014/03/20/levine-and-marks-1928-iq-classification/

@Riverwolf007:

The IQ standard that you are basing your clinical explanation on is outdated. Now, the way you used it is seen as offensive.

Apparently he's been taking hormones for a while.

I didn't pay much attention to the whole thing. Tons of transsexuals out there who do this kind of thing for themselves and not for what seems to be some fame.

I supported it with my opinion, you somehow want me to prove my opinion. What you ask of me would be like me asking you to prove to me why you like pizza. I answered your fucking question and I directed you back to it a few posts ago. Go ahead and get the last word in, this is my last reply to this ridiculous conversation.

Seriously dude? Are you that stupid that you cannot see I went back and forth with the guy for multiple posts before finally giving up? That is not ignoring someone.

more offensive than anything else that i have said that is purposefully outrageous and/or farcical here in order to make people laugh?

i mean you have to admit, it's odd, right?

i have seen the word "retard" said on a ton network primetime tv shows, many were made by the people that own this very site.

it's fascinating to me how some things become taboo while at the same time other things become more acceptable.

had anyone told me a couple of years ago that "baby fucking fuckface fucker" would not be a series of words that would get you a warning while "retard" would i would have thought them nutty.

@Riverwolf007: It really depends on the context. Even swearing, excessively, is something that we should avoid as described in the Code of Conduct.

As far as television, that is outside my area of duty. I shall say that television is becoming increasingly tolerant about what is shown to general audiences in the West.

i should do this as a topic sometime because i really am fascinated by the whole issue of culture change and the evolution of what becomes acceptable or unacceptable to social groups.

i don't want to go on about this anymore because it's not the topic but maybe sometime i will feel like babysitting a topic long enough to get into it and see what insight ot may have on how some words that are admittedly in the poorest of taste end up being restricted while others of equally poor taste are allowed.

@Riverwolf007: Good luck with that. A background in philosophy and psychology might be of assistance.

Well, here's what the "Bullseye" article says about Caitlyn in Entertainment Weekly Issue #1367 (June 12, 2015):

Another bikini body that's better than ours.

I have no words to describe how sweet this is.

If I was famous and could hang out around these people I'd keep calling him Bruce for shits and giggles.

Caitlin Jenner is still a male as Bruce/Caitlin hasn't gone through the proper surgery to become a female. As of now he is a man who has gone through hormone therapy, received breast implants and still has a Penis. Your White Knight routine is getting old and you sound like a raging SJW with little logic to your argument. If I go around telling everyone I am a Lion and want to be be identified as a Feline does that make me a Cat now?

Stop telling people whats relevant to the discussion just because you seem to have some close bond with a 70 year old PR whore in his desperate and pathetic attempt for attention.

The fact that this is such a big deal is sad. I am just happy that she seems to be happier now as a woman. :) Good luck to her new life as a woman. The sex change seems to have gone pretty well.

@vfibsux: Cut with the infantile persecutory delusion. No one is forcing you to think anything. Yes, people disagree with what you say and may even think your ideas are stupid. But they are not forcing you to adopt their opinions. Furthermore, lets look at the facts here, here are definitions of normal, in related fields.

Psychology.

1. approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence,personality, or emotional adjustment.
2. free from any mental disorder; sane.

Biology, Medicine/Medical.

1. free from any infection or other form of disease or malformation, orfrom experimental therapy or manipulation.
2. of natural occurrence.

First of all, I'll tell people what is relevant as long as I'd like. That it annoys you is just icing on the cake.

Second, SWJ is hardly an insult.

Thirdly, do you care to present an actual argument (your simplistic analogy doesn't count) or are you just going to be butthurt about my posts?

@GreySeal9: lol sjws are about as pathetic as they come. Also you have no argument at all. You haven't even made a logical argument or rebuttal it's just random babble.

So continue to sit behind your keyboard rocking your fohawk and skinny jeans. It doesn't change the fact you are incapable of a basic debate.

are we still railing against skinny jeans

Either accept homosexulity unconditionally or you are a homophobe in this country. Disagree with the president? You are a racist. Think we should bomb the shit out of ISIS? You are a warmonger. Think people should not be able to stay in the US illegally? You are a xenophobe and a bigot....you just don't like brown people do you?

This is the thought police at its best. And yes, these people do try and FORCE you to think and act a certain way, or be labeled a homophobe, racist, bigot, blah blah blah. The typical liberal logic, think exactly like me or you are not open minded. Conform or be cast out.

You can use whatever kind of verbiage and semantics you want...there are a shit ton of people in this country that do this. I for one will never conform to the bullshit.

Oh, and **** this board. Why I bother even coming here is baffling to me.

@vfibsux: you come to this board in order to speak the truth. Your post was very accurate when it comes to the liberals. Agree with us, or get classified in one of our nasty groups we like to put the right wing in.