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Another point, I will never understand the death penatly and I won't ever support it. Its Killing people who kill people to prove that killing people is wrong.Just-Breathe
Some people don't have a place in society and don't deserve to live after their actions have hurt many people. Think of the people who rape and kill like 10 women. Locking them up forever isn't good enough. They are allowed to let live after willingly ending so many lives.
A lot of murders in this country are emotional rampages. The person who murdered the other never had any intention of truly murdering them. It was usually an outburst that got way out of hand. However a repeat offender isn't being blind out of emotions, they know exactly what they are doing. It's those people we should be giving the death penalty.
From what I have read, it doesn't sound like this person deserved the death penalty. The crime seemed to be out of an impulse, a mistake. Not something executed and thought through.
I really can't say what I think. All I've seen via the media is the reasons why the evidence is flawed, I haven't seen what it actually was that got him found guilty so I wouldn't want to say without knowing the whole story.Overlord93
Of course the media is going to side with him. Controversy and pity sell more than sex.
The shell casings match the casings from another shooting -
that Troy Davis was convicted of - This is the second shooting this guy committed.
Can you imagine if Troy Davis was white, and the cop was black??
The liberal media would be celebrating right now, instead of protesting.
. . . and everyone knows it.
[QUOTE="Overlord93"]I really can't say what I think. All I've seen via the media is the reasons why the evidence is flawed, I haven't seen what it actually was that got him found guilty so I wouldn't want to say without knowing the whole story.Wasdie
Of course the media is going to side with him. Controversy and pity sell more than sex.
Yeah because you know this was so much the case in other big court cases like Michael Jackson or the most recent big case about the mother accused of killing their child..
[QUOTE="Mafiree"][QUOTE="MgamerBD"]Like I said in the other thread. Racism at its finest America...MgamerBDJury had 7 black people on it........ So does that mean that because there was 7 black people on jury. Its not racist? WTF? :? How would that work? A jury has to be unanimous in it's decision. Obviously with what was presented to that jury they felt they made the correct verdict. Racism is not the answer to everything....
[QUOTE="MgamerBD"][QUOTE="Mafiree"] Jury had 7 black people on it........LJS9502_basicSo does that mean that because there was 7 black people on jury. Its not racist? WTF? :? How would that work? A jury has to be unanimous in it's decision. Obviously with what was presented to that jury they felt they made the correct verdict. Racism is not the answer to everything....
I dont know all the facts to make my mind up and I believe that 95% of the people complaining about this do not know the facts either and are just hoping on a bandwagon
[QUOTE="Just-Breathe"]Another point, I will never understand the death penatly and I won't ever support it. Its Killing people who kill people to prove that killing people is wrong.Wasdie
Some people don't have a place in society and don't deserve to live after their actions have hurt many people. Think of the people who rape and kill like 10 women. Locking them up forever isn't good enough. They are allowed to let live after willingly ending so many lives.
A lot of murders in this country are emotional rampages. The person who murdered the other never had any intention of truly murdering them. It was usually an outburst that got way out of hand. However a repeat offender isn't being blind out of emotions, they know exactly what they are doing. It's those people we should be giving the death penalty.
From what I have read, it doesn't sound like this person deserved the death penalty. The crime seemed to be out of an impulse, a mistake. Not something executed and thought through.
The reason I am against Death Row is that it's usually handled poorly. People put on Death Row usually wait decades and the cost is much more than just sentencing them for life. Whether the person is alive or dead is not my concern as long as they are locked up. Money is more of my concern. If people could actually see how much of their tax money went to things like Death Row they probably wouldn't support it as much.Honestly, no one knows what happened in that parking lot in 1989. But, many of these protesters are just jumping on the bandwagon because the media encourages them to do so.
I can't determine if the man is innocent or not. But, what is clear is that he was no saint - he had a record. If he didn't have a record, then I would be more sympathetic.
Undoubtedly so....I dont know all the facts to make my mind up and I believe that 95% of the people complaining about this do not know the facts either and are just hoping on a bandwagon
fueled-system
The guy is guilty without a doubt. And what's this BS about 7 out of 9 witnesses recanted? There were 34 witnesses and many were black too. There were three black guys sitting at BK who saw the shooting. They stood by their testimony. Then there is the gun evidence.... What about the white guy who dragged that poor black man? He was executed yesterday. Is that racism too? Yeah, you guys get spoon fed BS from media and make up opinions as facts. This whole thing about him being innocent is being overplayed by the liberals who are against the death penalty and the race pimp black community like Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton.
This wasnt really good. Sounds like there was way too much doubt about whether he was guilty or not.
Yeah man I agree with you, except the fact is we will never know whether or not this guy is 100% guilty, though I think he was.The guy is guilty without a doubt. And what's this BS about 7 out of 9 witnesses recanted? There were 34 witnesses and many were black too. There were three black guys sitting at BK who saw the shooting. They stood by their testimony. Then there is the gun evidence.... What about the white guy who dragged that poor black man? He was executed yesterday. Is that racism too? Yeah, you guys get spoon fed BS from media and make up opinions as facts. This whole thing about him being innocent is being overplayed by the liberals who are against the death penalty and the race pimp black community like Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton.
DevilMightCry
That's just **** up. Especially for a case like this. I do not support dealth penalty with the possible exception of mass murderers.
The guy is guilty without a doubt. And what's this BS about 7 out of 9 witnesses recanted? There were 34 witnesses and many were black too. There were three black guys sitting at BK who saw the shooting. They stood by their testimony. Then there is the gun evidence.... What about the white guy who dragged that poor black man? He was executed yesterday. Is that racism too? Yeah, you guys get spoon fed BS from media and make up opinions as facts. This whole thing about him being innocent is being overplayed by the liberals who are against the death penalty and the race pimp black community like Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton.
DevilMightCry
You would think fiscal conservatives would be against the death penalty as well.. Its extremely wasteful spending dwarfingthe cost of housing them for life with really the same results more or less.. People never see them again.
While I do not support the death penalty.....much of the problem came because the defense did not provide the proper evidence at the hearing. Now if said evidence existed...that should not have been a difficult task. And many of the witnesses did not recant their testimony and the weapon was tied to the individual. So again....I would not automatically assume the conviction was without merit because the media says so.....That's just **** up. Especially for a case like this. I do not support dealth penalty with the possible exception of mass murderers.
magiciandude
[QUOTE="magiciandude"]While I do not support the death penalty.....much of the problem came because the defense did not provide the proper evidence at the hearing. Now if said evidence existed...that should not have been a difficult task. And many of the witnesses did not recant their testimony and the weapon was tied to the individual. So again....I would not automatically assume the conviction was without merit because the media says so.....That's just **** up. Especially for a case like this. I do not support dealth penalty with the possible exception of mass murderers.
LJS9502_basic
You have a point there.
I'll bet the MacPhail family is still cheering and rejoicing in the death "of a lying, heartless monster who is now frying in hell for killing Mark MacPhail so that justice is finally served and we can all have closure and move on with out lives!" These comments truly disgust me to no end! They truly made Troy's family suffer punishment in losing their loved one to state-sponsored murder, and I pray that God may comfort and forgive both families for what they've done. I hope the state of Georgia and the U.S. Supreme Court will one day have to answer to God for the atrocious act of ultimate injustice done to poor Troy Davis. May he and Officer MacPhail both rest in peace. :cry:angeldeb82
I posted this in the other thread, but is relevant here too:
Recanted testimony is always suspect. It can also lead to perjury charges against those who recant their testimony. Here is an example of a witness recanting testimony several times in a murder case in Wisconsin.
II. DISCUSSION
7
Olson now claims that he is entitled to a new trial (or in the alternative, a hearing to determine if he is entitled to a new trial) based on the sworn affidavits of Brenda LaRock and Ella Peters in which they recant their prior testimony inculpating Olson. This is the second time LaRock has recanted her testimony. She previously recanted in an affidavit dated August 18, 1986, roughly eleven months after Olson's trial. The district court denied Olson's motion for a new trial based upon the initial LaRock recantation. We affirmed the conviction and likewise denied the motion for a new trial through application of the test set forth in Larrison v. United States, 24 F.2d 82 (7th Cir.1928). See Olson, 846 F.2d at 1112. In Olson's present Rule 33 motion for a new trial, he offers not only LaRock's second recantation but also the recantation of Peters. Olson argues that considered together, the testimony of LaRock and Peters constituted a substantial portion of the government's case against him, therefore, he is entitled to a new trial. The district court considered the LaRock and Peters recantations separately because it could not reevaluate the LaRock recantation since this court had already specifically denied a retrial based on the first LaRock recantation. Specifically the court stated:
8
"When an appellate court considers and rejects a claim on direct appeal, that decision is binding on the district court in ruling upon a subsequent motion for a new trial under Rule 33 or upon a motion to vacate a sentence pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 2255. See Page v. United States, 884 F.2d 300, 302 (7th Cir.1989). Therefore, this court must be bound by the holding of the court of appeals regarding the recantation of Brenda LaRock Webster."Clifford J OLSON Sr Petitioner Appellant v UNITED STATES of America Respondent Appellee
Source There are similarities between this case and the Davis case.
We know that there were shell casings from a weapon found at the murder scene that matched a weapon Davis used in an earlier shooting elsewhere and convicted in.
The state produced 34 witnesses against Davis including 3 men in the Air Force who didn't know who Davis was. One of those who recanted previous testimony was a friend of Davis' that was 5 feet away from the crime when it happened. That is suspect in and of itself.
As far as Ann Coulter, she may appear conservative, but really isn't from what I gather and there is the fact that she went to law school and even worked as a lawyer in the past. She should be able to better explain what is going on with the Davis case better than what the liberal media like CBS, CNN, ABC etc. can and do and they only tell half the story. The rest of the world jumped on the Davis bandwagon without knowing the facts as many here has. At least Coulter has more of the facts to discuss the case and tell you what is happening instead of only giving out a snippet of it to try and raise a rebellious lot that gets arrested for protesting the Davis execution (several were at the White House and in Jackson at the state prison where Georgia's death row is).
I find it hard to believe that 7 black jurors are so prejudiced against another black man that they chose to convict him based on race. Get real. Stop playing the race card when race wasn't a factor in the conviction.
[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"]
The guy is guilty without a doubt. And what's this BS about 7 out of 9 witnesses recanted? There were 34 witnesses and many were black too. There were three black guys sitting at BK who saw the shooting. They stood by their testimony. Then there is the gun evidence.... What about the white guy who dragged that poor black man? He was executed yesterday. Is that racism too? Yeah, you guys get spoon fed BS from media and make up opinions as facts. This whole thing about him being innocent is being overplayed by the liberals who are against the death penalty and the race pimp black community like Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton.
sSubZerOo
You would think fiscal conservatives would be against the death penalty as well.. Its extremely wasteful spending dwarfingthe cost of housing them for life with really the same results more or less.. People never see them again.
Look, jails and prisons are necessary function of government. And I don't think we should be executing people on the basis of funding and cost. Not everyone deserves punishment in form of imprisoment like drug offenders, unless violence is involved. This is a matter that needs to be carefully examined.[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"]
The guy is guilty without a doubt. And what's this BS about 7 out of 9 witnesses recanted? There were 34 witnesses and many were black too. There were three black guys sitting at BK who saw the shooting. They stood by their testimony. Then there is the gun evidence.... What about the white guy who dragged that poor black man? He was executed yesterday. Is that racism too? Yeah, you guys get spoon fed BS from media and make up opinions as facts. This whole thing about him being innocent is being overplayed by the liberals who are against the death penalty and the race pimp black community like Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton.
DevilMightCry
You would think fiscal conservatives would be against the death penalty as well.. Its extremely wasteful spending dwarfingthe cost of housing them for life with really the same results more or less.. People never see them again.
Look, jails and prisons are necessary function of government. And I don't think we should be executing people on the basis of funding and cost. Not everyone deserves punishment in form of imprisoment like drug offenders, unless violence is involved. This is a matter that needs to be carefully examined.You seem to have misread from what I have said.. The death penalty is many times more expensive then housing the same person for life in prison.. And what does the second part have anything to do with what I wrote and the thread in general?
Damn liberals. Expandin' the constitutional protections and stuff.The shell casings match the casings from another shooting -
that Troy Davis was convicted of - This is the second shooting this guy committed.
Can you imagine if Troy Davis was white, and the cop was black??
The liberal media would be celebrating right now, instead of protesting.. . . and everyone knows it.
Born_Lucky
Damn liberals. Expandin' the constitutional protections and stuff. Not sure how you got that out of his post......[QUOTE="Born_Lucky"]
The shell casings match the casings from another shooting -
that Troy Davis was convicted of - This is the second shooting this guy committed.
Can you imagine if Troy Davis was white, and the cop was black??
The liberal media would be celebrating right now, instead of protesting.. . . and everyone knows it.
DroidPhysX
Look, jails and prisons are necessary function of government. And I don't think we should be executing people on the basis of funding and cost. Not everyone deserves punishment in form of imprisoment like drug offenders, unless violence is involved. This is a matter that needs to be carefully examined.[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]
You would think fiscal conservatives would be against the death penalty as well.. Its extremely wasteful spending dwarfingthe cost of housing them for life with really the same results more or less.. People never see them again.
sSubZerOo
You seem to have misread from what I have said.. The death penalty is many times more expensive then housing the same person for life in prison.. And what does the second part have anything to do with what I wrote and the thread in general?
Loosing a loved one is even more expensive. I sure as he'll don't want a child rapist or a murdered getting lunches, free weightlifting, and a roof over his head. As for the death row costing more, that depends on the state. I say bullets are fairly cheap these days.Damn liberals. Expandin' the constitutional protections and stuff. What does that have to do with his post?[QUOTE="Born_Lucky"]
The shell casings match the casings from another shooting -
that Troy Davis was convicted of - This is the second shooting this guy committed.
Can you imagine if Troy Davis was white, and the cop was black??
The liberal media would be celebrating right now, instead of protesting.. . . and everyone knows it.
DroidPhysX
[QUOTE="DevilMightCry"]Yeah man I agree with you, except the fact is we will never know whether or not this guy is 100% guilty, though I think he was.The guy is guilty without a doubt. And what's this BS about 7 out of 9 witnesses recanted? There were 34 witnesses and many were black too. There were three black guys sitting at BK who saw the shooting. They stood by their testimony. Then there is the gun evidence.... What about the white guy who dragged that poor black man? He was executed yesterday. Is that racism too? Yeah, you guys get spoon fed BS from media and make up opinions as facts. This whole thing about him being innocent is being overplayed by the liberals who are against the death penalty and the race pimp black community like Jesse Jackson, and Al Sharpton.
Just-Breathe
I agree. And yes I'm black.
My biggest obligation to the death penalty is that its soo shaky. It takes so long and does nothing for the crime rate.
I think that this guy has lived long enough to see himself become the hero. Once again, I don't know if the guy is guilty or not but he isn't exactly a saint. If he is trying to avoid "snitching" out his boy then he deserves this.
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="DevilMightCry"] Look, jails and prisons are necessary function of government. And I don't think we should be executing people on the basis of funding and cost. Not everyone deserves punishment in form of imprisoment like drug offenders, unless violence is involved. This is a matter that needs to be carefully examined. DevilMightCry
You seem to have misread from what I have said.. The death penalty is many times more expensive then housing the same person for life in prison.. And what does the second part have anything to do with what I wrote and the thread in general?
Loosing a loved one is even more expensive.And killing them will not bring them back, so what the hell kind of comparison is that? Your reasoning is based on personal emotion, not logic or for the common good of the society.. Emotion is suppose to play no part when it comes to justice..
I sure as he'll don't want a child rapist or a murdered getting lunches, free weightlifting, and a roof over his head.
Two things.. One this is why the victims have no say in the punishment or anything for that matter when it comes to be whats to be done to the accused.. Secondly, what difference does it make? It changes NOTHING in the end for the society.. Between death penalty and housing them for life.. THey both go away, and you never hear fromt hem.. Except one is far cheaper and does not have the possibility of killing a innocent person.
As for the death row costing more, that depends on the state. I say bullets are fairly cheap these days.
Which shows how you have no clue what so ever about the subject at hand.. Its the appeal cases and the costs behind them that drive up the costs.. Not the actual procedure.. Yet again look it up for your self before you make any more rants.. Death penalty cases literally cost numerous times over then it would be to house them..
I don't care about the cost as long as those type of criminals are deadPut your money where your mouth is and volunteer a local system that you will cover all the costs.. This isn't just YOUR money thats being used..
, and of no threat to anyone else,
They aren't they are in maximum security prisons..
including prisoners of other crimes.
Deathrow inmate people and the like are in maximum security wings that get little to no contact with other prisoners..
So the solution is to reward them by feeding them?
Yep its cheaper, offers the exact same thing a death penalty would do.. They are never seen again.. This isn't about how you feel, the justice system could give a DAMn about how you feel about this.. This is about finding the best solution where justice is served.. Nothing is gained from killing the person over housing them in maximum security.. And its far cheaper.
DevilMightCry
I don't care about the cost as long as those type of criminals are dead, and of no threat to anyone else, including prisoners of other crimes. So the solution is to reward them by feeding them? DevilMightCryHow about raising money by putting the worst criminals in a pit and have them battle it out to the death on television. It could make a lot of money. Just like the good ole days.
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