Switzerland votes to ban Muslim minarets

[QUOTE="Mochyc"][QUOTE="clyde46"] England is a Christan country.MetalGear_Ninty

I still beleive a government should not favor or discriminate a certain religions, but hey, I guess that's just me :P.

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

[QUOTE="Mochyc"] The majority of the english are christian, the english government is secular. Therefore the english government should not favor or discriminate any religion.Mochyc

[QUOTE="Mochyc"][QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"] The Queen is our head of state, and being the head of the Church of England, that faith in particular is strongly rooted within UK sovereignty. Not to mention the House of Lords in which unelected CoE bishops are members. So no, the UK is far from being completely secular.

clyde46

You mean religion can be successfully involved in government without it becoming a theocracy?! My whole world has collapsed.

[QUOTE="Democratik"][QUOTE="Mochyc"] The majority of the english are christian, the english government is secular. Therefore the english government should not favor or discriminate any religion.Mochyc

[QUOTE="Mochyc"][QUOTE="Democratik"] England has an established church. America is pretty much one of the only secular countries in the westDemocratik

[QUOTE="Democratik"][QUOTE="Mochyc"] So you're telling me there is no seperation of church and state in England?sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="clyde46"] No, what he means is, they were forced out because the area was turned into a Muslim domination area.DraugenCP

And it has nothing to do with what he was saying about the buildings being "intimidating."

domination? how is it dominating?

its a sign of islamic presence, but thats about it

This is a weird story. In Switzerland they are voting on wheather to specificly ban the building of minarets in their country. Minarets are towers assoicated with islamic mosques. The folks supporting the ban say allowing them would be a sign of the Islamisation of Switzerland. There are currently all ... four minarets in Switzerland.

Ban an arecteicual feature of just a single religion's house of worship seems, way creepy and wrong.

duxup

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"]

The majority of the english are christian, the english government is secular. Therefore the english government should not favor or discriminate any religion.Mochyc

I still beleive a government should not favor or discriminate a certain religions, but hey, I guess that's just me :P.

[QUOTE="Democratik"][QUOTE="Mochyc"] So you're telling me there is no seperation of church and state in England?sSubZerOo

I think the two cultures are going to clash.....and probably soon.LJS9502_basic

I am really glad and support Switzerland for standing up to the political onslaught of Islam. This has nothing to do with religion. All of Europe needs to adopt this attitude to protect their identity and way of life. If only the United States can be like Switzerland.

I think a ban would be in its place. Switzerland is not a muslim country and shall not become one either.

It doesn't matter where it is imo, theyre just radical idiots akin to those westboro nuts here in USA. if you ever actually go to a muslim country the people are really nice and don't bother you if you don't bother them. If people stop treating muslims like some other species, the whole situation will get better. pis3rch

Well, that being said, I'd like to see you apply to raise a cross atop a christian church in, say, Saudi Arabia. Their first christian church there, St. Mary's Roman Catholic church in Doha, Qatar, isn't allowed to display religous symbols on the exterior.

It goes both ways. Let's not even get started about the Jizya.

I think a ban would be in its place. Switzerland is not a muslim country and shall not become one either.

--Thomas--

Its a secular nation.. Religion shouldn't be bothered with that.. To me its no better than biggotry, there is no real logical purpose to make this rule outside of prejudice thought.. People need to grow up and understand that things change one way or the other.. Trying to stop those changes often are ineffectual or go against everything those said nations stand up for.. Who cares if Switzerland become a predominately islamic nation.. It would not change the fact that its a secular nation and numerous other things..

It's a very difficult issue. Here in the Netherlands there are way to many problems with muslim immigrants (mainly moroccan) and especially their children (who were born here). The Dutch government has been way too soft and tolerant for the last couple of decades, so things got out of hand. There are suburbs full of immigrants that have become completely derailed. There are mosques that have imams who preach hatred towards the western society which resulted in moroccan youth that has a twisted view on their own religion and uses it as a sword to attack our society. I also read opinions on a dutch forum for moroccan youth, it's scary to see how discriminating and racist many of these people are. Just throw around the words jew, gay chinese or whatever that isn't moroccan and see what happens.

A growing number of Dutch people has had enough of it, there's a new political party called PVV (led by Geert Wilders) that wants to make radical changes to stop islamisation of The Netherlands. If there were elections now he would get the most votes. However, his views cause an outrage within the immigrant communities, which in their turn results in even more PVV voters. I foresee a giant clash, not only in The Netherlands but within Europe in the next 10 years. This is going completely wrong and it's gone already way too much out of hand to stop it. Prepare for an Israel-Palestina conflict part 2.

In short, that ban in Switzerland will do nothing about the problems that exist. I can however understand the outcome, it's a signal to the government.

I've got mixed feeling about this. People are scared of extremist idiologies taking hold in their countries, and that is most definitely understandable because it is spreading. Honor killings are on the rise for Muslim women who want to be westernised, you have terrorism, and you have groups of people insisting that society changes for them (i.e. Muslim women who refuse to take off their head scarfs for photo IDs and England allowing Muslim communities certain judicial rights to enforce Muslim [not English] law). Take that, and add in how the extremists say they will not rest until their religion dominates the world, and looking at govenrments in Iran and other countries, and the Taliban, etc. and I don't see how anybody can be surprised that there is backlash. Part of that can be blamed on the media though, which only shows the extremist side of Muslim society, but there is no shortage of extremists. Muslim countries ban all kinds of things that aren't Muslim, but nobody seems to get upset about that.

Is the banning right? No, but I think there's a clear message in it.

Thats so stupid.

Ban church steeples, ban church bells, oh and ban domes too.

I never expected something like this from Switzerland-they're a neutral country in terms of politics and the like, after all.

[QUOTE="pis3rch"] .

It goes both ways. Let's not even get started about the Jizya.

br0kenrabbit

[QUOTE="--Thomas--"]

I think a ban would be in its place. Switzerland is not a muslim country and shall not become one either.

sSubZerOo

Its a secular nation.. Religion shouldn't be bothered with that.. To me its no better than biggotry, there is no real logical purpose to make this rule outside of prejudice thought.. People need to grow up and understand that things change one way or the other.. Trying to stop those changes often are ineffectual or go against everything those said nations stand up for.. Who cares if Switzerland become a predominately islamic nation.. It would not change the fact that its a secular nation and numerous other things..

in couple of years they will probably ban islam lolololol

I personally am against the Islamisation of Europe, but this Statist, outright anti-Islamic backlash is taking them an entirely wrong direction.

It depends on the reasoning behind it, There is always a view that because something is religion based that it should be immune to opposition and scrutiny and anyone who opposes it is seen as racist or intolerant.

mattisgod01

[QUOTE="Democratik"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]That's pretty ridiculous. I don't see how people can care so much about these sorts of things. Mochyc

I'm deeply saddened by the responses in this thread. I think its a product of our violent statist culture

It's a very difficult issue. Here in the Netherlands there are way to many problems with muslim immigrants (mainly moroccan) and especially their children (who were born here). The Dutch government has been way too soft and tolerant for the last couple of decades, so things got out of hand. There are suburbs full of immigrants that have become completely derailed. There are mosques that have imams who preach hatred towards the western society which resulted in moroccan youth that has a twisted view on their own religion and uses it as a sword to attack our society. I also read opinions on a dutch forum for moroccan youth, it's scary to see how discriminating and racist many of these people are. Just throw around the words jew, gay chinese or whatever that isn't moroccan and see what happens.

A growing number of Dutch people has had enough of it, there's a new political party called PVV (led by Geert Wilders) that wants to make radical changes to stop islamisation of The Netherlands. If there were elections now he would get the most votes. However, his views cause an outrage within the immigrant communities, which in their turn results in even more PVV voters. I foresee a giant clash, not only in The Netherlands but within Europe in the next 10 years. This is going completely wrong and it's gone already way too much out of hand to stop it. Prepare for an Israel-Palestina conflict part 2.

In short, that ban in Switzerland will do nothing about the problems that exist. I can however understand the outcome, it's a signal to the government.

TheFlush

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="--Thomas--"]

I think a ban would be in its place. Switzerland is not a muslim country and shall not become one either.

Good-Apollo

Its a secular nation.. Religion shouldn't be bothered with that.. To me its no better than biggotry, there is no real logical purpose to make this rule outside of prejudice thought.. People need to grow up and understand that things change one way or the other.. Trying to stop those changes often are ineffectual or go against everything those said nations stand up for.. Who cares if Switzerland become a predominately islamic nation.. It would not change the fact that its a secular nation and numerous other things..

There is so much irony in this it's not even funny.

Thats so stupid.

Ban church steeples, ban church bells, oh and ban domes too.

SunofVich

They do that - in Saudi Arabia. If an Islamic country has the right to protect its culture integrity by baning Christian cult buildings, I say that it can be also applied in the other way.

edit: Oh and Switzerland isn't a secular nation.Guardia Svizzera Pontificia, the Pope's personal guard is being recruted from Swiss army soldiers. It's said that being chosen to join this formation is the biggest honor a Swiss male can obtain.

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

It depends on the reasoning behind it, There is always a view that because something is religion based that it should be immune to opposition and scrutiny and anyone who opposes it is seen as racist or intolerant.

[QUOTE="SunofVich"]

Thats so stupid.

Ban church steeples, ban church bells, oh and ban domes too.

shinian

They do that - in Saudi Arabia. If an Islamic country has the right to protect its culture integrity by baning Christian cult buildings, I say that it can be also applied in the other way.

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

[QUOTE="mattisgod01"]

It depends on the reasoning behind it, There is always a view that because something is religion based that it should be immune to opposition and scrutiny and anyone who opposes it is seen as racist or intolerant.

MetalGear_Ninty

And what is wrong with the islamisation of Switzerland? Is it taking away rights from the citizens? Is it harming citizens? Is it dangerous? I doubt it, it's a religion like any other. In a country with supposed freedom of religion, there shouldn't even be a discussion about this. It's deplorable, all religions should be treated equally. So unless they ban the building of old school churches and sinagogues, I think the person who proposed this bill and the people voting for it are all idiots. Mochyc

[QUOTE="Mochyc"][QUOTE="Democratik"] Well, I know in the UK there seems to be a good amount of violence associated with Islam immigrants. Many Muslims are directly opposed to any western thought, and when someone steps in (such as authorities) to stop what would be only acceptable in the middle east, a big out cry happens. im not saying this always happens. I cant confirm it to be true because I would never be able to find the source I heard this from again.danwallacefan

[QUOTE="MetalGear_Ninty"][QUOTE="danwallacefan"] anyone who thinks that the State should oppose or scrutinize a religion that doesn't directly harm its citizens IS a racist and IS intolerant.

[QUOTE="Mochyc"][QUOTE="Democratik"] Well, I know in the UK there seems to be a good amount of violence associated with Islam immigrants. Many Muslims are directly opposed to any western thought, and when someone steps in (such as authorities) to stop what would be only acceptable in the middle east, a big out cry happens. im not saying this always happens. I cant confirm it to be true because I would never be able to find the source I heard this from again.danwallacefan

when you immigrate to another country you become a part of it and youhave toaccept the values protected by the country. I am a muslim living in uk and couple of months ago during our friday prayer sermon in mosque (OMGWTFBBQ!) we were told that we are part of this country and should do everything to protect it (not that i aliready didnt know lulz) andrespect the law...the sermon was mainly towards the younger muslims.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="--Thomas--"]

I think a ban would be in its place. Switzerland is not a muslim country and shall not become one either.

Good-Apollo

Its a secular nation.. Religion shouldn't be bothered with that.. To me its no better than biggotry, there is no real logical purpose to make this rule outside of prejudice thought.. People need to grow up and understand that things change one way or the other.. Trying to stop those changes often are ineffectual or go against everything those said nations stand up for.. Who cares if Switzerland become a predominately islamic nation.. It would not change the fact that its a secular nation and numerous other things..

There is a line to be drawn.. They should only go after extreme Islamic followers with in the country.. And I don't see how banning Minarets does anything for that.

[QUOTE="Good-Apollo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Its a secular nation.. Religion shouldn't be bothered with that.. To me its no better than biggotry, there is no real logical purpose to make this rule outside of prejudice thought.. People need to grow up and understand that things change one way or the other.. Trying to stop those changes often are ineffectual or go against everything those said nations stand up for.. Who cares if Switzerland become a predominately islamic nation.. It would not change the fact that its a secular nation and numerous other things..

sSubZerOo

There is a line to be drawn.. They should only go after extreme Islamic followers with in the country.. And I don't see how banning Minarets does anything for that.

no islam doesnt treat women as propery...i dont know where you get that idea

[QUOTE="Good-Apollo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Its a secular nation.. Religion shouldn't be bothered with that.. To me its no better than biggotry, there is no real logical purpose to make this rule outside of prejudice thought.. People need to grow up and understand that things change one way or the other.. Trying to stop those changes often are ineffectual or go against everything those said nations stand up for.. Who cares if Switzerland become a predominately islamic nation.. It would not change the fact that its a secular nation and numerous other things..

sSubZerOo

There is a line to be drawn.. They should only go after extreme Islamic followers with in the country.. And I don't see how banning Minarets does anything for that.

Couldn't have said it better.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Good-Apollo"] Do you really think it will stay secular once the Islamists take over? Naive thinking is naive.sikanderahmed

There is a line to be drawn.. They should only go after extreme Islamic followers with in the country.. And I don't see how banning Minarets does anything for that.

no islam doesnt treat women as propery...i dont know where you get that idea

He also said not all followers like that, and there are some pockets of Islam that are very far behind on women's rights.

[QUOTE="shinian"]

[QUOTE="SunofVich"]

Thats so stupid.

Ban church steeples, ban church bells, oh and ban domes too.

danwallacefan

They do that - in Saudi Arabia. If an Islamic country has the right to protect its culture integrity by baning Christian cult buildings, I say that it can be also applied in the other way.

There's an old saying, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do "A couple years ago, when I still believed in God (Christian) I lived in Morocco for few weeks. When I was there I weared a chain with a cross on my neck only under a fully buttoned up collar shirt - only not to disturb the citizens. I didn't want to overstay my welcome or to endanger my host in any unpleasant situations.

The governments in all of the EU countries were too liberal with the imigration problem. Thanks to that the latest Muslim extremist's protests looked like that:

If governments will do everything to make Europe even a more cosy place the situation will worsen. In every ethnic group there are good people and bad people. I just think that the law obidient Muslim immigrants should have the right to stay and extremist should get deported.

[QUOTE="Good-Apollo"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Its a secular nation.. Religion shouldn't be bothered with that.. To me its no better than biggotry, there is no real logical purpose to make this rule outside of prejudice thought.. People need to grow up and understand that things change one way or the other.. Trying to stop those changes often are ineffectual or go against everything those said nations stand up for.. Who cares if Switzerland become a predominately islamic nation.. It would not change the fact that its a secular nation and numerous other things..

sSubZerOo

There is a line to be drawn.. They should only go after extreme Islamic followers with in the country.. And I don't see how banning Minarets does anything for that.