Taliban strikes back, 80 dead!

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] I'm saying the US is targetting civilians as much or as little as Al Qaeda is. They both have their strategies that involve defeating the enemy and civilians happen to be killed in the process. The main difference is that the US uses warplanes and the insurgents use suicide bombers.kuraimen

The funny thing is if they tried to up the ante, and say, launch a ballistic nuclear missle, all of the actual superpowers would come down on them and you would see mass death on their side where they reside. Personally in the end I am for more brutal assaults but in time the insurgents will bring this onto themselves.

I would absolutely LOVE for Iran to publically disclose that they have nuclear packages capable of hitting any target on the planet and to say they are outfitting the insurgents with it. Because you could see this entire fisaco over one way or another within a day.

[QUOTE="POPEYE1716"]

I thought the attacks were for allah(or to pursue a beter life), Now they are for Bin Laden. These are some messed up people. in my eyes they are weak

Harisemo

no these attacks are not for Allah and bin laden is an excuse. These same people attack mosques. what kind of muslim wouldblow a mosque? why don't these people attack westernised stuff like night clubs in pakistan? why are mosques and pakistans security forces always the target? these moronsare being used by foreign agencies to weaken Pakistan from within.

I like how you say "why don't these people attack westernised stuff". Why should they be attacking/blowing up/killing ANYONE is the real question.

[QUOTE="Omni-Slash"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] Oh I understand pretty well, what people fail to understand is that there's a significant difference between the US army and the insurgents which is resources and money. The US has the means to come close to military targets and attack them using planes, ships, war vehicles, drones, etc even if they are among the civilians. The insurgents have nowhere near the amount of resources or technology to fight so how are they going to come closer to military targets in the region and, even more, in US territory? The US does what it can which is attack civilian populations where they think the enemy is hiding well the insurgents also do what they can which is attack targets like the Twin Towers where civilians are involved with the means they have. There's little to no difference on both approaches in my view other than resources and money.kuraimen

What specific US opperations targeted civilians?

And they don't have warplanes or technology to go and attack those military targets. Maybe the US would like to lend them some warplanes so they don't have to use civilian planes next time? And they said that the Twin Towers were a target meant to destabilize the US economy. Watching how the subsequent events following 9/11 have been a burden to the US economy I'll say they achieved part of their objective.

Just because you have the technology and resources to attack more precisely doesn't make it more right than what they do.

kuraimen

--Feb. 26, 1993

The first World Trade Center attack and the first terrorist attack on America. A bomb built in nearby Jersey City is driven into an underground garage at the trade center and detonated, killing six and wounding 1,500. Yousef, nephew of Khalid Sheik Mohammed, masterminds the attack, working with nearly a dozen local Muslims. While U.S. officials disagree on whether Osama bin Laden instituted the attack and Yousef denies he has met bin Laden, the CIA later learns that Yousef stayed in a bin Laden-owned guest house in Pakistan both before and after the attacks.

--April – June 23, 1993

Militants plan a series of near simultaneous bombings in New York. Among the targets were prominent New York monuments: The Lincoln and Holland tunnels linking New York to New Jersey, the George Washington Bridge, the Statue of Liberty, the United Nations, the last to be planted with the help of diplomats from the Sudanese mission, the Federal Building at 26 Federal Plaza, and finally, one in the Diamond District along 47th Street, populated by mostly Jewish diamond dealers. On June 23, as terrorists mix chemicals for the bombs, FBI agents raid their warehouse and arrest twelve.

-- June 20, 1994

Ramzi Yousef, working with the People's Mujahedin of Iran, blows up the Shrine of Reza, the great grandson of Mohammed and a Shiite saint, in Mashad, Iran. The explosion took out the entire wall of the mausoleum, killing 26 pilgrims, mostly women. At the time, Yousef was motivated as much by hatred of Shiite Muslims as by hatred of America. Also involved in the plot were his father and brother.

-- Dec. 10, 1994

As part of the planning for the Day of Hate [see below] Yousef plants a crude bomb on board a Philippines Airlines plane from Cebu City, the Philippines, to Tokyo. When the bomb detonates, it kills one passenger, a Japanese businessman, and forces the plane, a 747, to land in Okinawa. Yousef calibrates the damage and increases the size of the bomb so it can take down an entire jumbo jet.

-- Jan. 21-22, 1995

In what would have been an attack with a higher death toll than the Sept. 11 attacks, bombs placed on board 11 jumbo jets are to be detonated by timing devices as the planes fly over the Pacific, killing an estimated 4,000 people. Most of the jets are to be American carriers and most of the dead would have been Americans. The bombs would have been timed to go off over a number of hours to heighten the terror. The plan, called the Day of Hate, was conceived by Ramzi Yousef, the mastermind of the first World Trade Center bombing and his uncle, Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Only a fire in Yousef's Manila apartment on Jan. 6 thwarts it. Mohammed later modifies the plan and takes it to Osama bin Laden. That modified plan becomes the blueprint for the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

--Aug. 8, 1998

Al-Qaida sends suicide bombers into the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. Truck bombs kill more than 240 people, including 12 Americans at the Nairobi embassy. The attack results in the quick arrest of several of the bombers, but not the mastermind, Fazul Abdullah Mohammed. Also known as "Harun," Mohammed is involved in later al-Qaida attacks.

--Jan. 1-3, 2000

U.S. and Jordanian authorities thwart attacks planned to coincide with the Millennium celebrations. In mid-December, Jordanian authorities arrest more than 20 al-Qaida operatives who are planning to bomb three locations where American tourists gather: Mt. Nebo, where Moses first saw the Promised Land; the Ramada Hotel in Amman, a stopover for tour groups; and the spot on the Jordan River where tradition holds John the Baptist baptized Christ. Later in the month, U.S. authorities seize Ahmed Ressam at a border crossing in Port Angeles, WA. He is carrying bomb-making equipment and later discusses his plan to blow up Los Angeles International Airport on New Year's Eve.

--Sept. 11, 2001

Three hijacked planes are flown into major U.S. landmarks, destroying New York's World Trade Center towers and plowing into the Pentagon. A fourth hijacked plane crashes in rural Pennsylvania, its target believed to have been the U.S. Capitol. At least 3,044 people are killed. The death toll is nearly 10 times greater than any other terrorist attack in history and makes bin Laden, for the first time, a household name in the United States and the west.

--Dec. 22, 2001

Passengers and crew of an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami subdue Richard Reid after he attempts to light a bomb hidden inside his shoe. Some in U.S. intelligence community believe the bombing was last vestige of a larger plan that included the attacks on New York and Washington as well as bombings of other airliners over the oceans.

--Jan. 31, 2002

Pakistani militants behead Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in Karachi after holding him for several days. U.S. officials report there is evidence Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Al-Qaida's operations chief, may have played a role in his kidnapping and murder. Pearl is shown on a tape being beheaded.

-- March 17, 2002

Islamic militants attack the Protestant International Church in Islamabad, killing five. Among those killed were Americans Barbara Green and her daughter Kristen Wormsley. Pakistani officials blame al-Qaida.

--March 20, 2002

Nine people are killed and 30 wounded in a car bomb explosion near the U.S. Embassy in Lima. Peru.

--April 11, 2002

A suicide bomber explodes a truck near the El Ghriba synagogue on the southern Tunisian island of Djerba, killing 14 Germans, five Tunisians and a Frenchman. Khalid Sheik Mohammed and Saad bin Laden, Osama bin Laden's third youngest son, are believed behind the attack.

--June 14, 2002

Another suicide car bomber detonates a bomb outside the U.S. consulate in Karachi, killing at least 11 people and wounding 45. No Americans is killed. The bomb is in the trunk of a moving car. The car's passengers, Pakistani nursing students, are unaware of the bomb.

--Oct. 12, 2002

Bombs explode in Kuta Beach nightclub district of Bali in Indonesia, killing 202 people and wounding hundreds. Five Americans are among the dead. A third bomb explodes near the U.S. Consulate in Sanur near Kuta, without causing casualties. Bombers later admit they expected many more American casualties. The bombing highlights the reach of al-Qaida.

--Oct. 28, 2002

A group of al-Qaida operatives kills U.S. AID worker Laurence Foley, 62, outside his home as he prepared to leave for work. Foley's attackers are arrested by Jordanian officials in December.

--Nov. 28, 2002

At least 15 people are killed in car bomb attack on hotel frequented by Israeli tourists in Kenyan port of Mombasa. On the same day, two missiles are fired at but miss an Israeli airliner taking off from the city. Fazul Abdullah Mohammed, mastermind of the 1998 embassy bombings, is sought by Kenyan officials in the attacks.

--May 12, 2003

Suicide bombers in vehicles shoot their way into housing compounds for expatriates in Saudi capital of Riyadh so they can set off bombs. Some 35 people, including nine Americans, are killed. The attacks are a watershed for the Saudi government, which for years had thought al-Qaida would not attack the kingdom. As a result of the attacks, cooperation between the U.S. and Saudi governments grows rapidly.

--May 16, 2003

Suicide bombers using cars or explosive belts set off at least five blasts in Casablanca, Morocco, killing 44 people, including 12 bombers, and wounding about 60. The deaths of 17 bombers in Saudi and 12 in Morocco suggest that al-Qaida is having no trouble recruiting suicide bombers.

--Aug. 5, 2003

A huge truck bomb kills 16 people and wounds 150 as it rips through Marriott Hotel in the Indonesian capital Jakarta. One foreigner, a Dutch businessman, is among the dead.

--Nov. 8, 2003

In an attack reminiscent of al-Qaida's May attack, suicide bombers backed by gunmen enter a residential compound in Riyadh detonate two car bombs, killing 17, among them 5 children, and wounding 122. The attack uses vehicles disguised to look like police cars. U.S. and Saudi intelligence services had warned of a possible attack in the days before, even thwarting an attack in Mecca.

--Nov. 15, 2003

At least 29 people are killed and scores were injured in near simultaneous explosions at two Istanbul synagogues, the first al-Qaida attack against Muslim Turkey, a NATO member and military ally of Israel. One blast occurs outside the Neve Shalom synagogue in the historic Beyoglu district in the heart of Istanbul. Another goes off close to another synagogue in the nearby neighborhood of Sisli. An small Turkish militant group aligned with Al-Qaida takes responsibility for the attack.

--Nov. 20, 2003

The Istanbul headquarters of London-based bank HSBC and the British consulate in the Turkish city are targeted in similar attacks, with a total of 32 people killed in the twin blasts. The blasts replicate the twin attacks five days earlier against Istanbul synagogues in that both used "drive by bombings," in which bomb-laden trucks are detonated by suicide bombers as the vehicle moves past the target.

--Feb. 6, 2004

A suicide bomber detonates a bulk explosive at the deepest point in the Moscow Metro, killing 40 people. The attack is believed to be the work of a Saudi militant Abu Walid, whose financing of Chechen rebels has given him great power within the movement to free the breakaway Russian republic. The attack occurs near the Avtozavodskaya metro station and is supposedly a revenge attack for Russian troops atrocities against Chechen civilians in the town on Alda four years to the day earlier.

--Feb. 27, 2004

A bomb onboard a Philippines ferry detonates, starting a fire that kills at least 100 people on their way from Manila to Bacolod in the central Philippines. The ferry was carrying around 860 people when two hours into the trip an explosion ripped the ferry, leading to a fire that quickly engulfed it. Abu Sayef, the al-Qaida affiliate, initially claims responsibility although the Philippines government denies the explosion was the result of a bombing. Later U.S. officials say the bombing was deliberate, not accidental.

--March 11, 2004

A co-ordinated bombing of trains in Madrid leaves more than 190 people dead and hundreds wounded. The attack, which leads to the unexpected fall of the pro-U.S. government of Anzar, is blamed on Morrocan terrorists with close links to al-Qaida. According to investigators, the attack was carried out not by al-Qaida or even an affiliate, but instead by radical Muslims who identified with al-Qaida and were led by a charismatic figure.

--April 5, 2004

The mastermind of the March 11 attacks and five others blow themselves up in a Madrid apartment building, killing a special policeman as well. Explosives discovered in the building where the five killed themselves to avoid capture indicate they were plotting more violence and were linked to the failed bombing of a high-speed rail line Friday. Two or three suspects may have escaped before blast.

--April 21, 2004

A suicide bomber kills five people, including two senior Saudi police officers and an 11-year-old girl, in an attack on a government building in Riyadh. An Islamic militant group, the al-Haramin Brigades, claims responsibility.


--May 30, 2004
Miilitants go on a shooting rampage at two oil industry office/residential compounds in the Persian Gulf coast city of Khobar, killing 22 people, mostly foreigners including one American.


--Dec. 6, 2004
Al-Qaida claims responsibility for an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Jiddah, Saudi Arabia, that left five non-American employees dead.

--Dec. 12, 2004

A bomb exploded in a Philippine market packed with Christmas shoppers Sunday, killing at least 15 people and shattering a months long lull in terror attacks in the volatile southern Philippines, where Muslim rebels are active.

—June 15, 2005

Chechen rebels try to derail a train on its way from Grozny to Moscow. The train derails, but only 15 people are injured.

—July 7, 2005

Four suicide bombers detonate bombs on London Underground trains and a double-decker bus, killing 56 people in the worst terrorist attack ever in the UK and the greatest civilian loss of life since the blitz more than 60 years ago. The bombers are all British nationals and three are British born. Three are of Pakistani descent, the fourth a Jamaican who converted to Islam.

July 21, 2005

Two weeks after the first Underground bombing, four other would-be suicide bombers attempt an identical attack on three trains and a bus. The bombs fail to go off and wound only one passenger. Within days, all four men are identified and arrested. Again, all are British nationals, this time of East African descent.

—July 23, 2005

Three bombs detonate in the Egyptian resort city of Sharm el-Sheikh, killing 63, the worst terrorist attack in that country's history. Two of the bombs detonated at resort hotels favored by Western tourists while the third went off in the city's marketplace. Egyptian authorities rounded up a number of suspects and later killed one of the country's leading Islamists in a shootout.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"] I do not think anyone ignores those notions. The main difference is that the insurgents hide among citizens purposely because otherwise they can be easily killed otherwise. The point however is that while bystanders do perish, that is just part of this "war game". I would rather innocent bystanders die along with the insurgents than to stand behind human shields and do as they please. So far as killing citizens both sides are guilty.

The funny thing is if they tried to up the ante, and say, launch a ballistic nuclear missle, all of the actual superpowers would come down on them and you would see mass death on their side where they reside. Personally in the end I am for more brutal assaults but in time the insurgents will bring this onto themselves.

CreasianDevaili

I would absolutely LOVE for Iran to publically disclose that they have nuclear packages capable of hitting any target on the planet and to say they are outfitting the insurgents with it. Because you could see this entire fisaco over one way or another within a day.

It's just another CIA-sponsored "terrorist attack".

The dual purpose of this one was to justify perpetuation of the military presence in neighboring Afghanistan and to establish a pretext for extending that presence to Pakistan.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

And they don't have warplanes or technology to go and attack those military targets. Maybe the US would like to lend them some warplanes so they don't have to use civilian planes next time? And they said that the Twin Towers were a target meant to destabilize the US economy. Watching how the subsequent events following 9/11 have been a burden to the US economy I'll say they achieved part of their objective.

Just because you have the technology and resources to attack more precisely doesn't make it more right than what they do.

Mystic-G

--Feb. 26, 1993

The first World Trade Center attack and the first terrorist attack on America. A bomb built in nearby Jersey City is driven into an underground garage at the trade center and detonated, killing six and wounding 1,500. Yousef, nephew of Khalid Sheik Mohammed, masterminds the attack, working with nearly a dozen local Muslims. While U.S. officials disagree on whether Osama bin Laden instituted the attack and Yousef denies he has met bin Laden, the CIA later learns that Yousef stayed in a bin Laden-owned guest house in Pakistan both before and after the attacks.

--April – June 23, 1993

Militants plan a series of near simultaneous bombings in New York. Among the targets were prominent New York monuments: The Lincoln and Holland tunnels linking New York to New Jersey, the George Washington Bridge, the Statue of Liberty, the United Nations, the last to be planted with the help of diplomats from the Sudanese mission, the Federal Building at 26 Federal Plaza, and finally, one in the Diamond District along 47th Street, populated by mostly Jewish diamond dealers. On June 23, as terrorists mix chemicals for the bombs, FBI agents raid their warehouse and arrest twelve.

-- June 20, 1994

Ramzi Yousef, working with the People's Mujahedin of Iran, blows up the Shrine of Reza, the great grandson of Mohammed and a Shiite saint, in Mashad, Iran. The explosion took out the entire wall of the mausoleum, killing 26 pilgrims, mostly women. At the time, Yousef was motivated as much by hatred of Shiite Muslims as by hatred of America. Also involved in the plot were his father and brother.

-- Dec. 10, 1994

As part of the planning for the Day of Hate [see below] Yousef plants a crude bomb on board a Philippines Airlines plane from Cebu City, the Philippines, to Tokyo. When the bomb detonates, it kills one passenger, a Japanese businessman, and forces the plane, a 747, to land in Okinawa. Yousef calibrates the damage and increases the size of the bomb so it can take down an entire jumbo jet.

-- Jan. 21-22, 1995

In what would have been an attack with a higher death toll than the Sept. 11 attacks, bombs placed on board 11 jumbo jets are to be detonated by timing devices as the planes fly over the Pacific, killing an estimated 4,000 people. Most of the jets are to be American carriers and most of the dead would have been Americans. The bombs would have been timed to go off over a number of hours to heighten the terror. The plan, called the Day of Hate, was conceived by Ramzi Yousef, the mastermind of the first World Trade Center bombing and his uncle, Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Only a fire in Yousef's Manila apartment on Jan. 6 thwarts it. Mohammed later modifies the plan and takes it to Osama bin Laden. That modified plan becomes the blueprint for the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

--Aug. 8, 1998

Al-Qaida sends suicide bombers into the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. Truck bombs kill more than 240 people, including 12 Americans at the Nairobi embassy. The attack results in the quick arrest of several of the bombers, but not the mastermind, Fazul Abdullah Mohammed. Also known as "Harun," Mohammed is involved in later al-Qaida attacks.

--Jan. 1-3, 2000

U.S. and Jordanian authorities thwart attacks planned to coincide with the Millennium celebrations. In mid-December, Jordanian authorities arrest more than 20 al-Qaida operatives who are planning to bomb three locations where American tourists gather: Mt. Nebo, where Moses first saw the Promised Land; the Ramada Hotel in Amman, a stopover for tour groups; and the spot on the Jordan River where tradition holds John the Baptist baptized Christ. Later in the month, U.S. authorities seize Ahmed Ressam at a border crossing in Port Angeles, WA. He is carrying bomb-making equipment and later discusses his plan to blow up Los Angeles International Airport on New Year's Eve.

--Sept. 11, 2001

Three hijacked planes are flown into major U.S. landmarks, destroying New York's World Trade Center towers and plowing into the Pentagon. A fourth hijacked plane crashes in rural Pennsylvania, its target believed to have been the U.S. Capitol. At least 3,044 people are killed. The death toll is nearly 10 times greater than any other terrorist attack in history and makes bin Laden, for the first time, a household name in the United States and the west.

--Dec. 22, 2001

Passengers and crew of an American Airlines flight from Paris to Miami subdue Richard Reid after he attempts to light a bomb hidden inside his shoe. Some in U.S. intelligence community believe the bombing was last vestige of a larger plan that included the attacks on New York and Washington as well as bombings of other airliners over the oceans.

--Jan. 31, 2002

Pakistani militants behead Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in Karachi after holding him for several days. U.S. officials report there is evidence Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Al-Qaida's operations chief, may have played a role in his kidnapping and murder. Pearl is shown on a tape being beheaded.

-- March 17, 2002

Islamic militants attack the Protestant International Church in Islamabad, killing five. Among those killed were Americans Barbara Green and her daughter Kristen Wormsley. Pakistani officials blame al-Qaida.

--March 20, 2002

Nine people are killed and 30 wounded in a car bomb explosion near the U.S. Embassy in Lima. Peru.

--April 11, 2002

A suicide bomber explodes a truck near the El Ghriba synagogue on the southern Tunisian island of Djerba, killing 14 Germans, five Tunisians and a Frenchman. Khalid Sheik Mohammed and Saad bin Laden, Osama bin Laden's third youngest son, are believed behind the attack.

--June 14, 2002

Another suicide car bomber detonates a bomb outside the U.S. consulate in Karachi, killing at least 11 people and wounding 45. No Americans is killed. The bomb is in the trunk of a moving car. The car's passengers, Pakistani nursing students, are unaware of the bomb.

--Oct. 12, 2002

Bombs explode in Kuta Beach nightclub district of Bali in Indonesia, killing 202 people and wounding hundreds. Five Americans are among the dead. A third bomb explodes near the U.S. Consulate in Sanur near Kuta, without causing casualties. Bombers later admit they expected many more American casualties. The bombing highlights the reach of al-Qaida.

--Oct. 28, 2002

A group of al-Qaida operatives kills U.S. AID worker Laurence Foley, 62, outside his home as he prepared to leave for work. Foley's attackers are arrested by Jordanian officials in December.

--Nov. 28, 2002

At least 15 people are killed in car bomb attack on hotel frequented by Israeli tourists in Kenyan port of Mombasa. On the same day, two missiles are fired at but miss an Israeli airliner taking off from the city. Fazul Abdullah Mohammed, mastermind of the 1998 embassy bombings, is sought by Kenyan officials in the attacks.

--May 12, 2003

Suicide bombers in vehicles shoot their way into housing compounds for expatriates in Saudi capital of Riyadh so they can set off bombs. Some 35 people, including nine Americans, are killed. The attacks are a watershed for the Saudi government, which for years had thought al-Qaida would not attack the kingdom. As a result of the attacks, cooperation between the U.S. and Saudi governments grows rapidly.

--May 16, 2003

Suicide bombers using cars or explosive belts set off at least five blasts in Casablanca, Morocco, killing 44 people, including 12 bombers, and wounding about 60. The deaths of 17 bombers in Saudi and 12 in Morocco suggest that al-Qaida is having no trouble recruiting suicide bombers.

--Aug. 5, 2003

A huge truck bomb kills 16 people and wounds 150 as it rips through Marriott Hotel in the Indonesian capital Jakarta. One foreigner, a Dutch businessman, is among the dead.

--Nov. 8, 2003

In an attack reminiscent of al-Qaida's May attack, suicide bombers backed by gunmen enter a residential compound in Riyadh detonate two car bombs, killing 17, among them 5 children, and wounding 122. The attack uses vehicles disguised to look like police cars. U.S. and Saudi intelligence services had warned of a possible attack in the days before, even thwarting an attack in Mecca.

--Nov. 15, 2003

At least 29 people are killed and scores were injured in near simultaneous explosions at two Istanbul synagogues, the first al-Qaida attack against Muslim Turkey, a NATO member and military ally of Israel. One blast occurs outside the Neve Shalom synagogue in the historic Beyoglu district in the heart of Istanbul. Another goes off close to another synagogue in the nearby neighborhood of Sisli. An small Turkish militant group aligned with Al-Qaida takes responsibility for the attack.

--Nov. 20, 2003

The Istanbul headquarters of London-based bank HSBC and the British consulate in the Turkish city are targeted in similar attacks, with a total of 32 people killed in the twin blasts. The blasts replicate the twin attacks five days earlier against Istanbul synagogues in that both used "drive by bombings," in which bomb-laden trucks are detonated by suicide bombers as the vehicle moves past the target.

--Feb. 6, 2004

A suicide bomber detonates a bulk explosive at the deepest point in the Moscow Metro, killing 40 people. The attack is believed to be the work of a Saudi militant Abu Walid, whose financing of Chechen rebels has given him great power within the movement to free the breakaway Russian republic. The attack occurs near the Avtozavodskaya metro station and is supposedly a revenge attack for Russian troops atrocities against Chechen civilians in the town on Alda four years to the day earlier.

--Feb. 27, 2004

A bomb onboard a Philippines ferry detonates, starting a fire that kills at least 100 people on their way from Manila to Bacolod in the central Philippines. The ferry was carrying around 860 people when two hours into the trip an explosion ripped the ferry, leading to a fire that quickly engulfed it. Abu Sayef, the al-Qaida affiliate, initially claims responsibility although the Philippines government denies the explosion was the result of a bombing. Later U.S. officials say the bombing was deliberate, not accidental.

--March 11, 2004

A co-ordinated bombing of trains in Madrid leaves more than 190 people dead and hundreds wounded. The attack, which leads to the unexpected fall of the pro-U.S. government of Anzar, is blamed on Morrocan terrorists with close links to al-Qaida. According to investigators, the attack was carried out not by al-Qaida or even an affiliate, but instead by radical Muslims who identified with al-Qaida and were led by a charismatic figure.

--April 5, 2004

The mastermind of the March 11 attacks and five others blow themselves up in a Madrid apartment building, killing a special policeman as well. Explosives discovered in the building where the five killed themselves to avoid capture indicate they were plotting more violence and were linked to the failed bombing of a high-speed rail line Friday. Two or three suspects may have escaped before blast.

--April 21, 2004

A suicide bomber kills five people, including two senior Saudi police officers and an 11-year-old girl, in an attack on a government building in Riyadh. An Islamic militant group, the al-Haramin Brigades, claims responsibility.


--May 30, 2004
Miilitants go on a shooting rampage at two oil industry office/residential compounds in the Persian Gulf coast city of Khobar, killing 22 people, mostly foreigners including one American.


--Dec. 6, 2004
Al-Qaida claims responsibility for an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Jiddah, Saudi Arabia, that left five non-American employees dead.

--Dec. 12, 2004

A bomb exploded in a Philippine market packed with Christmas shoppers Sunday, killing at least 15 people and shattering a months long lull in terror attacks in the volatile southern Philippines, where Muslim rebels are active.

-June 15, 2005

Chechen rebels try to derail a train on its way from Grozny to Moscow. The train derails, but only 15 people are injured.

-July 7, 2005

Four suicide bombers detonate bombs on London Underground trains and a double-decker bus, killing 56 people in the worst terrorist attack ever in the UK and the greatest civilian loss of life since the blitz more than 60 years ago. The bombers are all British nationals and three are British born. Three are of Pakistani descent, the fourth a Jamaican who converted to Islam.

July 21, 2005

Two weeks after the first Underground bombing, four other would-be suicide bombers attempt an identical attack on three trains and a bus. The bombs fail to go off and wound only one passenger. Within days, all four men are identified and arrested. Again, all are British nationals, this time of East African descent.

-July 23, 2005

Three bombs detonate in the Egyptian resort city of Sharm el-Sheikh, killing 63, the worst terrorist attack in that country's history. Two of the bombs detonated at resort hotels favored by Western tourists while the third went off in the city's marketplace. Egyptian authorities rounded up a number of suspects and later killed one of the country's leading Islamists in a shootout.

They certainly get in the way of their objective, the problem is they only have the means to do this kind of attacks. I'm sure that if they had fighter jets and all that technology they would be attacking military targets since it is more effective than what they do now. But I guess each side does what they can with what they have and both kill civilians equally in the process.

Terrorists don't value human life except those that matter to them. That's why they're called Terrorists and not military because they want to create as much terror and panic and destruction as they can. If they had military jets and bombs and weapons similar to America, they wouldn't just all of a sudden only attack military targets. It would be military targets, and buildings with civilians, and schools, and whatever created the most terror and effect. Their point is to scare people and their governments, not because of some noble cause. Committing suicide while murdering innocent, unsuspecting people without care for those people or the pain caused to their family and friends is neither heroic, nor noble and just cowardly and selfish. And people wonder why the world hates terrorists.

And people wonder why the world hates terrorists.

Sunfyre7896

[QUOTE="weezyfb"]why are they attacking fellow citizens? they had nothing to do with his death... there logic makes no sense YellowOneKinobi

Terrorists don't value human life except those that matter to them. That's why they're called Terrorists and not military because they want to create as much terror and panic and destruction as they can. If they had military jets and bombs and weapons similar to America, they wouldn't just all of a sudden only attack military targets. It would be military targets, and buildings with civilians, and schools, and whatever created the most terror and effect. Their point is to scare people and their governments, not because of some noble cause. Committing suicide while murdering innocent, unsuspecting people without care for those people or the pain caused to their family and friends is neither heroic, nor noble and just cowardly and selfish. And people wonder why the world hates terrorists.

Sunfyre7896

[QUOTE="Sunfyre7896"]

Terrorists don't value human life except those that matter to them. That's why they're called Terrorists and not military because they want to create as much terror and panic and destruction as they can. If they had military jets and bombs and weapons similar to America, they wouldn't just all of a sudden only attack military targets. It would be military targets, and buildings with civilians, and schools, and whatever created the most terror and effect. Their point is to scare people and their governments, not because of some noble cause. Committing suicide while murdering innocent, unsuspecting people without care for those people or the pain caused to their family and friends is neither heroic, nor noble and just cowardly and selfish. And people wonder why the world hates terrorists.

kuraimen

The ressentimentis growing stronger.

Terrorists don't value human life except those that matter to them. That's why they're called Terrorists and not military because they want to create as much terror and panic and destruction as they can. If they had military jets and bombs and weapons similar to America, they wouldn't just all of a sudden only attack military targets. It would be military targets, and buildings with civilians, and schools, and whatever created the most terror and effect. Their point is to scare people and their governments, not because of some noble cause. Committing suicide while murdering innocent, unsuspecting people without care for those people or the pain caused to their family and friends is neither heroic, nor noble and just cowardly and selfish. And people wonder why the world hates terrorists.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Sunfyre7896"]

Terrorists don't value human life except those that matter to them. That's why they're called Terrorists and not military because they want to create as much terror and panic and destruction as they can. If they had military jets and bombs and weapons similar to America, they wouldn't just all of a sudden only attack military targets. It would be military targets, and buildings with civilians, and schools, and whatever created the most terror and effect. Their point is to scare people and their governments, not because of some noble cause. Committing suicide while murdering innocent, unsuspecting people without care for those people or the pain caused to their family and friends is neither heroic, nor noble and just cowardly and selfish. And people wonder why the world hates terrorists.

DroidPhysX

No but I'm trying to put myself in their position as much as posible and trying to understand them. If you label Hitler a monster and live it at that it is pretty easy to justify any action you take against him and his followers but is it really valuable to understand the process by which Hitler came to become so powerful in the first place? not really, by understanding Hitler's motivations and processes that made him what he was then we can use that knowledge to prevent the same mistakes in the future. If we don't care to understand them then we are bound to make the same mistakes over and over.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] For someone who, I guess, have never met a terrorist, lived in their situation and can't read their mind you seem to understand them really well. It is very simplistic and practical to dismiss whatever your enemy does as the product of evil just because without trying to understand the forces and motives behind their actions. Unfortunately that mentality is the one that causes all the problems in the first place.kuraimen

No but I'm trying to put myself in their position as much as posible and trying to understand them. If you label Hitler a monster and live it at that it is pretty easy to justify any action you take against him and his followers but is it really valuable to understand the process by which Hitler came to become so powerful in the first place? not really, by understanding Hitler's motivations and processes that made him what he was then we can use that knowledge to prevent the same mistakes in the future. If we don't care to understand them then we are bound to make the same mistakes over and over.

I understand what you are saying, to a point. Sometimes desperate situations make people use desperate measures. But I think a lot of these terrorists don't have to use as desperature measures as they think. OBL people have killed more muslims than westerners.

Terrorists don't value human life except those that matter to them. That's why they're called Terrorists and not military because they want to create as much terror and panic and destruction as they can. If they had military jets and bombs and weapons similar to America, they wouldn't just all of a sudden only attack military targets. It would be military targets, and buildings with civilians, and schools, and whatever created the most terror and effect. Their point is to scare people and their governments, not because of some noble cause. Committing suicide while murdering innocent, unsuspecting people without care for those people or the pain caused to their family and friends is neither heroic, nor noble and just cowardly and selfish. And people wonder why the world hates terrorists.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] Have you met one? ;)DroidPhysX

No but I'm trying to put myself in their position as much as posible and trying to understand them. If you label Hitler a monster and live it at that it is pretty easy to justify any action you take against him and his followers but is it really valuable to understand the process by which Hitler came to become so powerful in the first place? not really, by understanding Hitler's motivations and processes that made him what he was then we can use that knowledge to prevent the same mistakes in the future. If we don't care to understand them then we are bound to make the same mistakes over and over.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"][QUOTE="kuraimen"]

No but I'm trying to put myself in their position as much as posible and trying to understand them. If you label Hitler a monster and live it at that it is pretty easy to justify any action you take against him and his followers but is it really valuable to understand the process by which Hitler came to become so powerful in the first place? not really, by understanding Hitler's motivations and processes that made him what he was then we can use that knowledge to prevent the same mistakes in the future. If we don't care to understand them then we are bound to make the same mistakes over and over.

kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] That was actually a yes or no question. :? No explanation neededDroidPhysX

[QUOTE="Sunfyre7896"]

Terrorists don't value human life except those that matter to them. That's why they're called Terrorists and not military because they want to create as much terror and panic and destruction as they can. If they had military jets and bombs and weapons similar to America, they wouldn't just all of a sudden only attack military targets. It would be military targets, and buildings with civilians, and schools, and whatever created the most terror and effect. Their point is to scare people and their governments, not because of some noble cause. Committing suicide while murdering innocent, unsuspecting people without care for those people or the pain caused to their family and friends is neither heroic, nor noble and just cowardly and selfish. And people wonder why the world hates terrorists.

kuraimen

Al-Qaeda purposely attacks civilian and military targets. There is no cross-fire to be had with them just pure destruction.

U.S. military goes after insurgents, there is not a single operation in the War on Terror that targets civilians. Insurgents purposely blend in with civilians for good reason. If they were to do anything else, they would be walking bullseyes. It's not like insurgents walk around with nametags that say "Hi, my names is Terrorist". There are situations where civilian casualties are the cost of killing the enemy. You can speak all you want about how it's wrong, but I'd like to see you do what the soldiers do while managing to never make a mistake. Our soldier casualties would be extraordinary if we were to always pause and take the time to figure out who's who.

"Gee, I'm raiding a room with multiple people in it... I guess I should wait for all 5 of them to point a gun at me before I shoot. That way I only take 4 bullets to the chest and head"

There is no comparison to be had, Al-Qaeda has done tons of attacks SPECIFICALLY on civilians, not even attempting to hit military targets.

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"]

Maybe there should be an international neutral agency that provides the other side the money and resources so when they go to war they are on equal grounds and can both build those super technological bases together with satellites and radars, etc etc. I think we would be seeing a very different kind of war if that were the case.kuraimen

I would absolutely LOVE for Iran to publically disclose that they have nuclear packages capable of hitting any target on the planet and to say they are outfitting the insurgents with it. Because you could see this entire fisaco over one way or another within a day.

Because whenever anyone tries to link the insurgents to represent an entire nation, ethnic background, or religion it is denounced. Yet many seem to group the entire U.S.A. into one singular focus. Even though it can be said that there is more diversity, albiet not without some of the troubles that come along with it, in U.S.A. as well. Listen. Most here did not know much about tha Taliban outside of Rambo 3. Many also didn't want to go into the first desert storm unless we finished what we started and certainly didn't want people to stand up with us and then get abandoned when we pulled out. To many, all they know is that thousands not even associated with the military were killed on 9/11. There were other ways to bring any problems to light and of gained support in U.S.A. outside of doing something that just made most of the country angry and hateful since they could never acknowledge any of it prior.

If you however meant the fiasco of U.S.A. conclusion of such a conflict ending in that manner, well, I think it would be shared globally.

America needs to halt all foreign aid to Pakistan immediately, our government is so idiotic it pains me. Let's give 3 billion a YEAR to a country that hates us and harbors the most dangerous criminals in the world, great idea ****ing morons!

That 3 billion dollars needs to be used in the states, our economy is going down the toilet yet our government is content with wasting money like it will never end and then acting like its Armageddon when we expect them to balance the budget and threaten not to raise the debt ceiling. Neither of these things are a end game scenario, the hemorrhaging of money needs to stop and it might as well start with Pakistan (don't worry I think we should stop giving money to all foreign countries not just Pakistan).

America needs to halt all foreign aid to Pakistan immediately, our government is so idiotic it pains me. Let's give 3 billion a YEAR to a country that hates us and harbors the most dangerous criminals in the world, great idea ****ing morons!

That 3 billion dollars needs to be used in the states, our economy is going down the toilet yet our government is content with wasting money like it will never end and then acting like its Armageddon when we expect them to balance the budget and threaten not to raise the debt ceiling. Neither of these things are a end game scenario, the hemorrhaging of money needs to stop and it might as well start with Pakistan (don't worry I think we should stop giving money to all foreign countries not just Pakistan).

jer_1

There's no excuse to blow up other people, but explaining causes of terrorism =/= supporting terrorism. Sociologists and psychologists don't actually support school massacres when they try to explain the social and environmental causes behind school shootings.

America needs to halt all foreign aid to Pakistan immediately, our government is so idiotic it pains me. Let's give 3 billion a YEAR to a country that hates us and harbors the most dangerous criminals in the world, great idea ****ing morons!

That 3 billion dollars needs to be used in the states, our economy is going down the toilet yet our government is content with wasting money like it will never end and then acting like its Armageddon when we expect them to balance the budget and threaten not to raise the debt ceiling. Neither of these things are a end game scenario, the hemorrhaging of money needs to stop and it might as well start with Pakistan (don't worry I think we should stop giving money to all foreign countries not just Pakistan).

jer_1

Yes, let's abandon an unstable country with nuclear weapons. We all saw what happened when we abandoned Afghanistan. Pakistan is one country we should keep giving aid to. Like it or not, we need their help and they need ours.

[QUOTE="jer_1"]

America needs to halt all foreign aid to Pakistan immediately, our government is so idiotic it pains me. Let's give 3 billion a YEAR to a country that hates us and harbors the most dangerous criminals in the world, great idea ****ing morons!

That 3 billion dollars needs to be used in the states, our economy is going down the toilet yet our government is content with wasting money like it will never end and then acting like its Armageddon when we expect them to balance the budget and threaten not to raise the debt ceiling. Neither of these things are a end game scenario, the hemorrhaging of money needs to stop and it might as well start with Pakistan (don't worry I think we should stop giving money to all foreign countries not just Pakistan).

psychobrew

Yes, let's abandon an unstable country with nuclear weapons. We all saw what happened when we abandoned Afghanistan. Pakistan is one country we should keep giving aid to. Like it or not, we need their help and they need ours.

Al-Qaeda purposely attacks civilian and military targets. There is no cross-fire to be had with them just pure destruction.

U.S. military goes after insurgents, there is not a single operation in the War on Terror that targets civilians. Insurgents purposely blend in with civilians for good reason. If they were to do anything else, they would be walking bullseyes. It's not like insurgents walk around with nametags that say "Hi, my names is Terrorist". There are situations where civilian casualties are the cost of killing the enemy. You can speak all you want about how it's wrong, but I'd like to see you do what the soldiers do while managing to never make a mistake. Our soldier casualties would be extraordinary if we were to always pause and take the time to figure out who's who.

"Gee, I'm raiding a room with multiple people in it... I guess I should wait for all 5 of them to point a gun at me before I shoot. That way I only take 4 bullets to the chest and head"

There is no comparison to be had, Al-Qaeda has done tons of attacks SPECIFICALLY on civilians, not even attempting to hit military targets.

Mystic-G

Al Qaeda also doesn't target innocent civilians only. In fact the news the OP linked to in this thread said they targeted a paramilitary base and civilians happened to be on the place so they got killed but their target was specifically the base. Again little to no difference.kuraimen

You really have no idea how flawed your argument is do you?

If the United States were attacking civilians and Al Qaeda at the same time, why would we even put our troops in the line of fire in the first place when we could just bomb them all to kingdom come?

[QUOTE="dramaybaz"]Great, now Pakistan has to pay the price for the secret attack.LJS9502_basic

maybe Pakistan shouldn't have tried to take credit for taking him out, oh the karmalamprey263

[QUOTE="psychobrew"]

[QUOTE="jer_1"]

America needs to halt all foreign aid to Pakistan immediately, our government is so idiotic it pains me. Let's give 3 billion a YEAR to a country that hates us and harbors the most dangerous criminals in the world, great idea ****ing morons!

That 3 billion dollars needs to be used in the states, our economy is going down the toilet yet our government is content with wasting money like it will never end and then acting like its Armageddon when we expect them to balance the budget and threaten not to raise the debt ceiling. Neither of these things are a end game scenario, the hemorrhaging of money needs to stop and it might as well start with Pakistan (don't worry I think we should stop giving money to all foreign countries not just Pakistan).

DroidPhysX

Yes, let's abandon an unstable country with nuclear weapons. We all saw what happened when we abandoned Afghanistan. Pakistan is one country we should keep giving aid to. Like it or not, we need their help and they need ours.

I seriously doubt the president of Pakistan was hiding osama. osama killed his wife. Of course he wanted him dead. There is no doubt some corrupt people in the givernment, but that does not mean the entire government was hiding osama.

Again, the country has nuclear weapons. It is in our best interests to be on good terms with them.

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"][QUOTE="psychobrew"]

Yes, let's abandon an unstable country with nuclear weapons. We all saw what happened when we abandoned Afghanistan. Pakistan is one country we should keep giving aid to. Like it or not, we need their help and they need ours.

psychobrew

I seriously doubt the president of Pakistan was hiding osama. osama killed his wife. Of course he wanted him dead. There is no doubt some corrupt people in the givernment, but that does not mean the entire government was hiding osama.

Again, the country has nuclear weapons. It is in our best interests to be on good terms with them.

maybe Pakistan shouldn't have tried to take credit for taking him out, oh the karmalamprey263

[QUOTE="psychobrew"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"]When was hiding Osama a part of the deal :?DroidPhysX

I seriously doubt the president of Pakistan was hiding osama. osama killed his wife. Of course he wanted him dead. There is no doubt some corrupt people in the givernment, but that does not mean the entire government was hiding osama.

Again, the country has nuclear weapons. It is in our best interests to be on good terms with them.

A) Those countries are more stable and they aren't infested with terrorists

B) They don't have nuclear weapons (yet)

I seriously doubt the president of Pakistan was hiding osama. osama killed his wife. Of course he wanted him dead. There is no doubt some corrupt people in the givernment, but that does not mean the entire government was hiding osama.

Again, the country has nuclear weapons. It is in our best interests to be on good terms with them.

psychobrew

Al-Qaeda purposely attacks civilian and military targets. There is no cross-fire to be had with them just pure destruction.

U.S. military goes after insurgents, there is not a single operation in the War on Terror that targets civilians. Insurgents purposely blend in with civilians for good reason. If they were to do anything else, they would be walking bullseyes. It's not like insurgents walk around with nametags that say "Hi, my names is Terrorist". There are situations where civilian casualties are the cost of killing the enemy. You can speak all you want about how it's wrong, but I'd like to see you do what the soldiers do while managing to never make a mistake. Our soldier casualties would be extraordinary if we were to always pause and take the time to figure out who's who.

"Gee, I'm raiding a room with multiple people in it... I guess I should wait for all 5 of them to point a gun at me before I shoot. That way I only take 4 bullets to the chest and head"

There is no comparison to be had, Al-Qaeda has done tons of attacks SPECIFICALLY on civilians, not even attempting to hit military targets.

Mystic-G

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"] The only reason you and me are both here on gamestop having this debate while others still fight each other is because one side is vastly under equipped compared to the other. In every instance of a superior power helping the vastly underpowered side with resources, it has never been to the point of putting them nearly on equal footing.

I would absolutely LOVE for Iran to publically disclose that they have nuclear packages capable of hitting any target on the planet and to say they are outfitting the insurgents with it. Because you could see this entire fisaco over one way or another within a day.

CreasianDevaili

Because whenever anyone tries to link the insurgents to represent an entire nation, ethnic background, or religion it is denounced. Yet many seem to group the entire U.S.A. into one singular focus. Even though it can be said that there is more diversity, albiet not without some of the troubles that come along with it, in U.S.A. as well. Listen. Most here did not know much about tha Taliban outside of Rambo 3. Many also didn't want to go into the first desert storm unless we finished what we started and certainly didn't want people to stand up with us and then get abandoned when we pulled out. To many, all they know is that thousands not even associated with the military were killed on 9/11. There were other ways to bring any problems to light and of gained support in U.S.A. outside of doing something that just made most of the country angry and hateful since they could never acknowledge any of it prior.

If you however meant the fiasco of U.S.A. conclusion of such a conflict ending in that manner, well, I think it would be shared globally.

[QUOTE="Mystic-G"]

Al-Qaeda purposely attacks civilian and military targets. There is no cross-fire to be had with them just pure destruction.

U.S. military goes after insurgents, there is not a single operation in the War on Terror that targets civilians. Insurgents purposely blend in with civilians for good reason. If they were to do anything else, they would be walking bullseyes. It's not like insurgents walk around with nametags that say "Hi, my names is Terrorist". There are situations where civilian casualties are the cost of killing the enemy. You can speak all you want about how it's wrong, but I'd like to see you do what the soldiers do while managing to never make a mistake. Our soldier casualties would be extraordinary if we were to always pause and take the time to figure out who's who.

"Gee, I'm raiding a room with multiple people in it... I guess I should wait for all 5 of them to point a gun at me before I shoot. That way I only take 4 bullets to the chest and head"

There is no comparison to be had, Al-Qaeda has done tons of attacks SPECIFICALLY on civilians, not even attempting to hit military targets.

kuraimen

[QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"]

[QUOTE="kuraimen"] Well I could see their fiasco but why can't people here see the US fiasco too?kuraimen

Because whenever anyone tries to link the insurgents to represent an entire nation, ethnic background, or religion it is denounced. Yet many seem to group the entire U.S.A. into one singular focus. Even though it can be said that there is more diversity, albiet not without some of the troubles that come along with it, in U.S.A. as well. Listen. Most here did not know much about tha Taliban outside of Rambo 3. Many also didn't want to go into the first desert storm unless we finished what we started and certainly didn't want people to stand up with us and then get abandoned when we pulled out. To many, all they know is that thousands not even associated with the military were killed on 9/11. There were other ways to bring any problems to light and of gained support in U.S.A. outside of doing something that just made most of the country angry and hateful since they could never acknowledge any of it prior.

If you however meant the fiasco of U.S.A. conclusion of such a conflict ending in that manner, well, I think it would be shared globally.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="Mystic-G"]

You really have no idea how flawed your argument is do you?

If the United States were attacking civilians and Al Qaeda at the same time, why would we even put our troops in the line of fire in the first place when we could just bomb them all to kingdom come?

sonicare

Al Qaeda's intentions and mottives are much more complex than just killing civilians but in the process they kill civilians. The US intentions and motives are much more complex than killing civilians but in the process they kill civilians. People don't see a lot of difference because there's really not a lot of difference.

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] I'm saying the US is targetting civilians as much or as little as Al Qaeda is. They both have their strategies that involve defeating the enemy and civilians happen to be killed in the process. The main difference is that the US uses warplanes and the insurgents use suicide bombers.kuraimen

Al Qaeda's intentions and mottives are much more complex than just killing civilians but in the process they kill civilians. The US intentions and motives are much more complex than killing civilians but in the process they kill civilians. People don't see a lot of difference because there's really not a lot of difference.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="CreasianDevaili"]

Because whenever anyone tries to link the insurgents to represent an entire nation, ethnic background, or religion it is denounced. Yet many seem to group the entire U.S.A. into one singular focus. Even though it can be said that there is more diversity, albiet not without some of the troubles that come along with it, in U.S.A. as well. Listen. Most here did not know much about tha Taliban outside of Rambo 3. Many also didn't want to go into the first desert storm unless we finished what we started and certainly didn't want people to stand up with us and then get abandoned when we pulled out. To many, all they know is that thousands not even associated with the military were killed on 9/11. There were other ways to bring any problems to light and of gained support in U.S.A. outside of doing something that just made most of the country angry and hateful since they could never acknowledge any of it prior.

If you however meant the fiasco of U.S.A. conclusion of such a conflict ending in that manner, well, I think it would be shared globally.

DroidPhysX

Eh even if that were true, so? not sure what you are trying to say

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"][QUOTE="kuraimen"] The USA has a democracy meaning they vote for whom they want to lead them and his/her ideas. They elected Bush twice. Is it entirely their fault? of course not, a democracy is a flawed system and most people are ignorant and probably don't even like to read. In contrast nobody elected the insurgents. So in this case there's a bigger responsibility of the american people as a whole. Yet I don't blame them all, I blame mostly their government for manipulating, lying and twisting words and facts to convince the people to do what they wanted. Sadly I see many people in here are still ignorant about the whole process and don't really care to understand what the US did wrong, that tells me that they will probably elect another Bush sometime in the future.kuraimen

Eh even if that were true, so? not sure what you are trying to say

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"] The main difference is that the US does not intentionally target civilians. True, it matters little to civilians who are killed by either side, but the US intention is to kill terrorists or insurgents and hopefully avoid civilian casualties. Al Qaeda's intention IS to kill civilans.DroidPhysX

Al Qaeda's intentions and mottives are much more complex than just killing civilians but in the process they kill civilians. The US intentions and motives are much more complex than killing civilians but in the process they kill civilians. People don't see a lot of difference because there's really not a lot of difference.

[QUOTE="kuraimen"]

[QUOTE="DroidPhysX"] And the US democracy has produced the most powerful group of people in the world. They are also known as the Supreme Court.DroidPhysX

Eh even if that were true, so? not sure what you are trying to say