Tax and Regulate Marijuana For Adults

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Lothar121_basic

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#1 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts

Some have this notion that marijuana is an extremely dangerous drug that causes many deaths and irks them to believe that marijuana should be illegal. First of all, making a substance illegal doesn't solve all the problems associated with the drug. In fact, many would argue that it causes far more problems. However, before going into that, let's discuss if marijuana really is so harmful.

Part I: What distinguishes marijuana from tobacco? Is marijuana really so harmful?

I'm going to make a few seemingly crazy claims, but I will provide a solid study to support my claims. These claims do not mean that marijuana does not cause lung problems, just not the killers associated with tobacco smoking.

1) Marijuana does not appear to cause lung cancer
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html
Although there is one other correlation study that was smaller that shows a connection, it has never been replicated. This study is the largest, most well controlled study on lung cancer and no connection was found.

2) Marijuana does not appear to cause emphysema (but does cause other lung problems).
http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/health/feeds/hscout/2007/02/21/hscout601877.html

3) In general, marijuana is less addictive than tobacco or alcohol.

"In summary, although few marijuana users develop dependence, some do. But they appear to be less likely to do so than users of other drugs (including alcohol and nicotine), and marijuana dependence appears to be less severe than dependence on other drugs." [p. 98]
http://books.nap.edu/html/marimed/

4) Marijuana does not cause overdose deaths.
"No acute lethal overdoses of cannabis are known, in contrast to several of its illegal (for example, cocaine) and legal (for example, alcohol, aspirin, acetaminophen) counterparts." (9/20/03) --British Medical Journal
http://www.bmj.com/

Part II: Marijuana prohibition does not solve the problems associated with the drug and in fact marijuana legalization would have many benefits.

1) It is currently easier for kids to get ahold of marijuana than alcohol according to CASA surveys. Regulating marijuana for adults would curb youth access to marijuana.

2) Marijuana would bring in 10-14 billion dollars in savings and government revenue every year that could be used for noble purposes rather than criminal ventures. http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/

3) Marijuana legalization would free up law enforcement time that would normally be used to arrest an adult marijuana user.

4) Marijuana legalization would free up space in jails and prisons to make room for more violent offenders.

5) Marijuana legalization would increase the liberty that adult citizens have in our society.

6) Marijuana legalization would separate marijuana from harder drugs thus reducing the exposure to other substances hampering the "gateway" effect.

7) Marijuana's potency, purity, and type could be regulated and labeled making it even safer.

8 ) Marijuana usage is not necessary connected with how harsh a marijuana law is. For instance, after Nevada lowered its penalties for possession of less than an ounce of marijuana from jail time to a fine, teenage usage actually went down. This does not mean marijuana decriminalization or legalization causes lower usage rates, but it does suggest that the law has little effect on usage and other factors play a more primary role.

__________________

There are many questions and perhaps objections that people will bring up, but I am prepared to answer and argue them all. Feel free to comment.

Also, I made a previous thread that got locked and I'm not sure why. I changed the title of the thread. I want to make it clear I do not encourage drug usage of ANY kind, including marijuana. 

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yoshi-lnex

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#2 yoshi-lnex
Member since 2007 • 5442 Posts

very good points

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Hallenbeck77

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#3 Hallenbeck77  Moderator
Member since 2005 • 16892 Posts
Not gonna happen anytime soon.  Most of the good weed (or so I hear) comes from foreign countries, there's no way the goverment is gonna let anyone else outside the US profit from this.
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deactivated-583e5f64e0a7e

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#4 deactivated-583e5f64e0a7e
Member since 2003 • 8419 Posts
You're not going to ever convince me.
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yoshi-lnex

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#5 yoshi-lnex
Member since 2007 • 5442 Posts
You're not going to ever convince me.LukeAF24
are you against it for any paticular reason?
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Weapons_Free

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#6 Weapons_Free
Member since 2006 • 1361 Posts
Dude, you posted this last night. I told you it would get locked. And what happened? It got locked. Why would you waste your time posting it again? The mods don't let us discuss this in OT.
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Lothar121_basic

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#7 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts
Dude, you posted this last night. I told you it would get locked. And what happened? It got locked. Why would you waste your time posting it again? The mods don't let us discuss this in OT. Weapons_Free
I thought it may have been locked due to the thread title. I reposted it with a less insulting title. I thought you meant it would only get locked IF people insulted each other. Why do these topics get locked while other topics on politics and religion can go on?
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deactivated-583e5f64e0a7e

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#8 deactivated-583e5f64e0a7e
Member since 2003 • 8419 Posts
[QUOTE="LukeAF24"]You're not going to ever convince me.yoshi-lnex
are you against it for any paticular reason?

For the same reasons I think alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal. Although, I know that it's nearly impossible.
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Weapons_Free

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#9 Weapons_Free
Member since 2006 • 1361 Posts

[QUOTE="Weapons_Free"]Dude, you posted this last night. I told you it would get locked. And what happened? It got locked. Why would you waste your time posting it again? The mods don't let us discuss this in OT. Lothar121_basic
I thought it may have been locked due to the thread title. I reposted it with a less insulting title. I thought you meant it would only get locked IF people insulted each other. Why do these topics get locked while other topics on politics and religion can go on?

 I don't remember the thread title from last night. And I do not know why we can't have this discussion on OT, but from what I've seen, marijuana related topics get the lock.

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Hallenbeck77

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#10 Hallenbeck77  Moderator
Member since 2005 • 16892 Posts
[QUOTE="yoshi-lnex"][QUOTE="LukeAF24"]You're not going to ever convince me.LukeAF24
are you against it for any paticular reason?

For the same reasons I think alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal. Although, I know that it's nearly impossible.

My history may be bad, but I think they tried to outlaw alcohol. From what I recall it diddn't go too well.
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deactivated-583e5f64e0a7e

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#11 deactivated-583e5f64e0a7e
Member since 2003 • 8419 Posts
My history may be bad, but I think they tried to outlaw alcohol. From what I recall it diddn't go too well.Hallenbeck77
Hence my statement stating it's impossible.
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Lothar121_basic

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#12 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts
[QUOTE="Hallenbeck77"]My history may be bad, but I think they tried to outlaw alcohol. From what I recall it diddn't go too well.LukeAF24
Hence my statement stating it's impossible.

Why would you support it if it was bad for society?
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Lothar121_basic

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#13 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts

[QUOTE="Lothar121_basic"][QUOTE="Weapons_Free"]Dude, you posted this last night. I told you it would get locked. And what happened? It got locked. Why would you waste your time posting it again? The mods don't let us discuss this in OT. Weapons_Free

I thought it may have been locked due to the thread title. I reposted it with a less insulting title. I thought you meant it would only get locked IF people insulted each other. Why do these topics get locked while other topics on politics and religion can go on?

I don't remember the thread title from last night. And I do not know why we can't have this discussion on OT, but from what I've seen, marijuana related topics get the lock.

Interesting. It wasn't like that a few months ago last time I was here. I wonder what changed. I don't remember my thread ever encouraging anyone to use illegal drugs either, so that couldn't be it. The mods can do what they want, but I wish they would explain.
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ProudLarry

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#14 ProudLarry
Member since 2004 • 13511 Posts
[QUOTE="Hallenbeck77"]My history may be bad, but I think they tried to outlaw alcohol. From what I recall it diddn't go too well.LukeAF24
Hence my statement stating it's impossible.

If you acknowledge that Prohibition was a disaster, then why would you still want to reinstate it?
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geodisicdome

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#15 geodisicdome
Member since 2005 • 13663 Posts
its ridiculous that canibis isn't legal - its weaker than alcohol and only as bad for you as actual cigarettes.
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deactivated-583e5f64e0a7e

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#16 deactivated-583e5f64e0a7e
Member since 2003 • 8419 Posts
[QUOTE="Lothar121_basic"] Why would you support it if it was bad for society?

Which is exactly why I don't support it.
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Diablo112688

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#17 Diablo112688
Member since 2003 • 8345 Posts
Making it legal wont stop people from selling it under the table...  Plus other things may be worse for you, but it is fact that it is harmful to your body.  I honestly dont give a crap if it is legalized or not. 
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deactivated-583e5f64e0a7e

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#18 deactivated-583e5f64e0a7e
Member since 2003 • 8419 Posts
If you acknowledge that Prohibition was a disaster, then why would you still want to reinstate it?ProudLarry
I think it all should be illegal, but like I said, I know it would never work.
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Lothar121_basic

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#19 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts
[QUOTE="LukeAF24"][QUOTE="Lothar121_basic"] Why would you support it if it was bad for society?

Which is exactly why I don't support it.

You just said "For the same reasons I think alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal. Although, I know that it's nearly impossible." In other words, you support alcohol prohibition which was bad for society. Why would you support that?
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Lothar121_basic

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#20 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts
Making it legal wont stop people from selling it under the table... Plus other things may be worse for you, but it is fact that it is harmful to your body. I honestly dont give a crap if it is legalized or not. Diablo112688
I don't see a majority of people growing their own veggies and tobacco. Why do you think it would be different with marijuana?
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jakecufc8888

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#21 jakecufc8888
Member since 2006 • 2381 Posts
Good points, it's a conspiracy I say. But I may be crazy. They probably illegalize it because it causes you to be more relaxed, so you do less work, then they get less money. Teh evils!!!!
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ProudLarry

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#22 ProudLarry
Member since 2004 • 13511 Posts
[QUOTE="ProudLarry"]If you acknowledge that Prohibition was a disaster, then why would you still want to reinstate it?LukeAF24
Nowhere did I say we should.

For the same reasons I think alcohol and cigarettes should be illegal. Although, I know that it's nearly impossible.LukeAF24
Then what did you mean by that?
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Lothar121_basic

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#23 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts
Good points, it's a conspiracy I say. But I may be crazy. They probably illegalize it because it causes you to be more relaxed, so you do less work, then they get less money. Teh evils!!!!jakecufc8888
It may have been some type of conspiracy how it was originally prohibited back in 1937, but the reason it's illegal now is because the majority of the public opposes legalization.
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Diablo112688

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#24 Diablo112688
Member since 2003 • 8345 Posts

[QUOTE="Diablo112688"]Making it legal wont stop people from selling it under the table... Plus other things may be worse for you, but it is fact that it is harmful to your body. I honestly dont give a crap if it is legalized or not. Lothar121_basic
I don't see a majority of people growing their own veggies and tobacco. Why do you think it would be different with marijuana?

It wont be a majority obviously, but it will still happen.  As it stands we wont see it legal for a long time.  Not that it mattters anyway.    

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Brainkiller05

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#25 Brainkiller05
Member since 2005 • 28954 Posts
I had to write a piece of GCSE coursework about the same matter, yours is better than mine :(
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Lothar121_basic

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#26 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts

[QUOTE="Lothar121_basic"][QUOTE="Diablo112688"]Making it legal wont stop people from selling it under the table... Plus other things may be worse for you, but it is fact that it is harmful to your body. I honestly dont give a crap if it is legalized or not. Diablo112688

I don't see a majority of people growing their own veggies and tobacco. Why do you think it would be different with marijuana?

It wont be a majority obviously, but it will still happen. As it stands we wont see it legal for a long time. Not that it mattters anyway.

Yeah I admit it will happen just as a few people brew their own beer, but the vast majority will not bother to cultivate and care for weed plants when they can get good brand named weed at the store. As it stands, marijuana is legal in Alaska for adults to possess. Support for legalization has nearly doubled from 1986 going from 20 to 36-40% support.
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Lothar121_basic

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#27 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts
I had to write a piece of GCSE coursework about the same matter, yours is better than mine :(Brainkiller05
Thanks. Feel free to use the material to improve on your project.
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Diablo112688

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#28 Diablo112688
Member since 2003 • 8345 Posts
It is also so easy to get weed, do you people actually care about the impact it has on the economy and other things? I doubt it, 90% of you just want to get high without having to worry about getting caught.
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Brainkiller05

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#29 Brainkiller05
Member since 2005 • 28954 Posts

100,000 people die from Ciggarette use every year.

In the UK there has only ever been 2 recorded deaths related to the use of cannabis.

So yea...you tell me why Ciggarettes are legal and Cannabis is illegal.  

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Loonie

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#30 Loonie
Member since 2003 • 3455 Posts
If a drug as dangerous as alcohol can be legal then why not cannabis? Either make them both legal or make them both illegal.
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Diablo112688

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#31 Diablo112688
Member since 2003 • 8345 Posts

100,000 people die from Ciggarette use every year.

In the UK there has only ever been 2 recorded deaths related to the use of cannabis.

So yea...you tell me why Ciggarettes are legal and Cannabis is illegal.

Brainkiller05

It is seen as a gateway drug, that is a huge reason to people who oppose it.   

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Lothar121_basic

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#32 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts
It is also so easy to get weed, do you people actually care about the impact it has on the economy? I doubt it, 90% of you just want to get high without having to worry about getting caught. Diablo112688
What does this have to do with the arguments I made in this thread on why marijuana should be legal? Even if what your claim with no evidence says is true, it still doesn't negate the arguments that have been made.
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mark4091

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#33 mark4091
Member since 2007 • 3780 Posts
All the government has to do is legalize it and sell it for half price then everybody would buy it from them, but they don't get it they keep it illegal for no reason, it's not going to stop people from using it.
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M1MyRifle

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#34 M1MyRifle
Member since 2004 • 494 Posts

Well some say that if you make marijuana legal, you would have to make the rest of the illegal drugs legal.

 But I do agree that the US Government is diggin itself a money pit by enforcing these marijuana laws.

So I do say that making marijuana legal will probably be better, but where would we draw the line with other illicit drugs?

You have to be careful, becuase we can see some type of snowball affect here and that may not be so great.

It will depend on who is elected to office and there views and the view of the general public here in the states.

Me personally support marijuana being made legal, but whether that happens in the near future is not likely. 

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Diablo112688

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#35 Diablo112688
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[QUOTE="Diablo112688"]It is also so easy to get weed, do you people actually care about the impact it has on the economy? I doubt it, 90% of you just want to get high without having to worry about getting caught. Lothar121_basic
What does this have to do with the arguments I made in this thread on why marijuana should be legal? Even if what your claim with no evidence says is true, it still doesn't negate the arguments that have been made.

I am not trying to negate or say these arguments are invalid.... I am just wondering why you truly care. 

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Lothar121_basic

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#36 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts

Well some say that if you make marijuana legal, you would have to make the rest of the illegal drugs legal.

But I do agree that the US Government is diggin itself a money pit by enforcing these marijuana laws.

So I do say that making marijuana legal will probably be better, but where would we draw the line with other illicit drugs?

You have to be careful, becuase we can see some type of snowball affect here and that may not be so great.

It will depend on who is elected to office and there views and the view of the general public here in the states.

Me personally support marijuana being made legal, but whether that happens in the near future is not likely.

M1MyRifle
What's so hard about drawing the line at marijuana? It has less of an impact on society than other illicit drugs.
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Squidward117

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#37 Squidward117
Member since 2005 • 4374 Posts
A few good points you made there.
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Lothar121_basic

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#38 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts

[QUOTE="Lothar121_basic"][QUOTE="Diablo112688"]It is also so easy to get weed, do you people actually care about the impact it has on the economy? I doubt it, 90% of you just want to get high without having to worry about getting caught. Diablo112688

What does this have to do with the arguments I made in this thread on why marijuana should be legal? Even if what your claim with no evidence says is true, it still doesn't negate the arguments that have been made.

I am not trying to negate or say these arguments are invalid.... I am just wondering why you truly care.

Same reason why I care about the war in Iraq, other measure of criminal justice reform, taxes, gun control, etc.. I believe that marijuana legalization would be better for society and I have seen the impact prohibition has on young people here in Texas.
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Tolwan

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#39 Tolwan
Member since 2003 • 2575 Posts
I am really...really, really getting tired of the overwhelming amount of liberals on this board.. No, they should not legalize it. If any politician proposes it to congress, i swear i'll kick his ass.
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Lothar121_basic

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#40 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts
I am really...really, really getting tired of the overwhelming amount of liberals on this board.. No, they should not legalize it. If any politician proposes it to congress, i swear i'll kick his ass.Tolwan
I'm not a liberal. Many conservatives want marijuana legalized for fiscal reasons. Milton Friedman and William F. Buckley Jr. aren't liberals, are they? That's just a knee jerk reaction to the arguments presented.
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Diablo112688

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#41 Diablo112688
Member since 2003 • 8345 Posts
[QUOTE="Diablo112688"]

[QUOTE="Lothar121_basic"][QUOTE="Diablo112688"]It is also so easy to get weed, do you people actually care about the impact it has on the economy? I doubt it, 90% of you just want to get high without having to worry about getting caught. Lothar121_basic

What does this have to do with the arguments I made in this thread on why marijuana should be legal? Even if what your claim with no evidence says is true, it still doesn't negate the arguments that have been made.

I am not trying to negate or say these arguments are invalid.... I am just wondering why you truly care.

Same reason why I care about the war in Iraq, other measure of criminal justice reform, taxes, gun control, etc.. I believe that marijuana legalization would be better for society and I have seen the impact prohibition has on young people here in Texas.

You assume it would be.  From what you have gathered it seems that it would be.  A lot of our laws are completley ridiculous and dont apply to real world USA.  Sadly I doubt this will ever change.   

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Lothar121_basic

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#42 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts
[QUOTE="Lothar121_basic"][QUOTE="Diablo112688"]

[QUOTE="Lothar121_basic"][QUOTE="Diablo112688"]It is also so easy to get weed, do you people actually care about the impact it has on the economy? I doubt it, 90% of you just want to get high without having to worry about getting caught. Diablo112688

What does this have to do with the arguments I made in this thread on why marijuana should be legal? Even if what your claim with no evidence says is true, it still doesn't negate the arguments that have been made.

I am not trying to negate or say these arguments are invalid.... I am just wondering why you truly care.

Same reason why I care about the war in Iraq, other measure of criminal justice reform, taxes, gun control, etc.. I believe that marijuana legalization would be better for society and I have seen the impact prohibition has on young people here in Texas.

You assume it would be. From what you have gathered it seems that it would be. A lot of our laws are completley ridiculous and dont apply to real world USA. Sadly I doubt this will ever change.

There's a difference between an assumption and a reasoned position. If you look at the evidence, it's pretty clear that marijuana legalization for adults would benefit our society for many reasons that I cited in the original post. Prohibition really isn't helping anything. As for things never changing, I just want to point out that things are changing incrementally over time. Nevada voted 44% in favor of legalization in 2006 almost passing the measure. Alaska already has marijuana legalized for adults. States can legalize the drug regardless of what the Feds do since 99% of marijuana enforcement is done on the state level.
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Loonie

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#43 Loonie
Member since 2003 • 3455 Posts
It is also so easy to get weed, do you people actually care about the impact it has on the economy and other things? I doubt it, 90% of you just want to get high without having to worry about getting caught. Diablo112688
If its so easy to obtain then does it even matter that its illegal? Might as well profit from it if its happening regardless.
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Diablo112688

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#44 Diablo112688
Member since 2003 • 8345 Posts
[QUOTE="Diablo112688"][QUOTE="Lothar121_basic"][QUOTE="Diablo112688"]

[QUOTE="Lothar121_basic"][QUOTE="Diablo112688"]It is also so easy to get weed, do you people actually care about the impact it has on the economy? I doubt it, 90% of you just want to get high without having to worry about getting caught. Lothar121_basic

What does this have to do with the arguments I made in this thread on why marijuana should be legal? Even if what your claim with no evidence says is true, it still doesn't negate the arguments that have been made.

I am not trying to negate or say these arguments are invalid.... I am just wondering why you truly care.

Same reason why I care about the war in Iraq, other measure of criminal justice reform, taxes, gun control, etc.. I believe that marijuana legalization would be better for society and I have seen the impact prohibition has on young people here in Texas.

You assume it would be. From what you have gathered it seems that it would be. A lot of our laws are completley ridiculous and dont apply to real world USA. Sadly I doubt this will ever change.

There's a difference between an assumption and a reasoned position. If you look at the evidence, it's pretty clear that marijuana legalization for adults would benefit our society for many reasons that cited in the original thread. Prohibition really isn't helping anything. As for things never changing, I just want to point out that things are changing incrementally over time. Nevada voted 44% in favor of legalization in 2006 almost passing the measure. Alaska already has marijuana legalized for adults. States can legalize the drug regardless of what the Feds do since 99% of marijuana enforcement is done on the state level.

I was mostly reffering to other laws when I said things wont change for a long time or ever.  And you are assuming, its not certain.  It will most likely be better from what you have gathered, but nothing is for sure.   

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mark4091

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#45 mark4091
Member since 2007 • 3780 Posts
[QUOTE="Diablo112688"]It is also so easy to get weed, do you people actually care about the impact it has on the economy and other things? I doubt it, 90% of you just want to get high without having to worry about getting caught. Loonie
If its so easy to obtain then does it even matter that its illegal? Might as well profit from it if its happening regardless.

exactly, but they think smoking a plant is like huffing paint
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Lothar121_basic

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#46 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts
Well I agree nothing is for sure, but with that same attitude we would never legislate a thing and the status quo would remain the same forever.
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Diablo112688

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#47 Diablo112688
Member since 2003 • 8345 Posts

[QUOTE="Diablo112688"]It is also so easy to get weed, do you people actually care about the impact it has on the economy and other things? I doubt it, 90% of you just want to get high without having to worry about getting caught. Loonie
If its so easy to obtain then does it even matter that its illegal? Might as well profit from it if its happening regardless.

 I was wondering why you care.  Well not you, the other poster.  He already answered.   

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starwarsgeek112

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#48 starwarsgeek112
Member since 2005 • 3472 Posts
Don't you think it's a little sad that you are trying to convince people why marijuana should be legal..on a gaming forum?
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Diablo112688

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#49 Diablo112688
Member since 2003 • 8345 Posts

Well I agree nothing is for sure, but with that same attitude we would never legislate a thing and the status quo would remain the same forever.Lothar121_basic

You kind of missed what I was saying.  I am not saying not to try something new because it may not work.  Go for it I say.  I was just stating the fact that it may not work. 

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#50 Lothar121_basic
Member since 2003 • 323 Posts
Don't you think it's a little sad that you are trying to convince people why marijuana should be legal..on a gaming forum?starwarsgeek112
Couldn't you use that same logic for just about anything on the off topic forums?