Texas Executes Rapist-Murderer

[QUOTE="th3warr1or"][QUOTE="shoot-first"]

I'm surprised that he wasn't killed during his incarceration by inmates.

shoot-first

They can find out easily.

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]Why did it take 17 years for this to happen?topsemag55

And that is part of why it cost so much to enforce capital punishment. In no way do I feel sorry for the guy, but he should have been put away for life and not executed.

i dont know about you guys but i totally agree with that law cuz some people don't deserve to live like murderersand rapist

Too bad they couldn't bring him back and kill him again.

I don't support the death penaltyweezyfb

he's probably a different person than he was back then. by the sound of it, looks like he thought he deserved to die to.

Fine I'll do it: Death sentence is abhorrent no matter who it's applied to. Even Hitler There. This discussion is already at Godwin's law.Ace6301

Not the discussion as a whole -- just your post.

Too bad too, because I can't entirely disagree with your point.

[QUOTE="weezyfb"]I don't support the death penaltyberserker2389

If we had a perfect legal system, I would support the death penalty (as there are many beyond all hope and are only a danger to society). BUT We do not. As such, I cannot support the death penalty in good consciencerawsavon

Good.

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]If we had a perfect legal system, I would support the death penalty (as there are many beyond all hope and are only a danger to society). BUT We do not. As such, I cannot support the death penalty in good consciencesurrealnumber5

Take care of those things though, and I will be happy to fry a great many prisoners.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]If we had a perfect legal system, I would support the death penalty (as there are many beyond all hope and are only a danger to society). BUT We do not. As such, I cannot support the death penalty in good consciencerawsavon

Take care of those things though, and I will be happy to fry a great many prisoners.

lol, jury duty.

surrealnumber5

Palantas doesn't vote. I don't know if that really does increase your chances of getting pulled for this s***, but I'm not taking any chances.

I'm not really in favor of the death penalty. I am in favor of solitary confinement for life.

I am not a fan of the death penalty but then again I am not a fan of having my taxes used to keep these guys alive. The whole prison system is corrupt with private prisons and borderline slave labor. There is a reason why we do not invest much in rehabilitation.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

lol, jury duty.

Palantas

Palantas doesn't vote. I don't know if that really does increase your chances of getting pulled for this s***, but I'm not taking any chances.

Tell that to the family of the victim... Justice and fairness sometimes go hand in hand.Digital_DJ_00

[QUOTE="Aquat1cF1sh"]An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...Overlord93

It's such a shame that killing people costs more than keeping them alive in the penal system. I never understood that.

Palantas

I'll trade you a dead Mexican National for a living Casey Anthony.

Deal?

Let this be a message to the rest of the world;International law be damned, Texas is going to get their executions in.

Although it is funny that even Dubya, who as governor of texas presided over 152 executions (a modern day record) and oversaw the passage of legislation that sped up the appeals process so they could execute quicker, pleaded with Rick Perry to not go through with this execution.

[QUOTE="Aquat1cF1sh"][QUOTE="th3warr1or"] This wasn't an eye for an eye. They didn't give him to the guys in prison that HATE rapists. That would've been an eye for an eye. This is justice.

This guy didn't just rape a 16 year old girl. He killed her after that. People like this, deserve no mercy, and yes I'd say the same thing if the person in question was my brother or son, because under no circumstance would they commit something like this.

th3warr1or

Opinions, I guess. But let me ask you this, if this isn't justice, what is? I'm sure as hell not comfortable living with someone like this on the streets.

keeping him locked up is justice. Having a death penalty is a dated, archaic system of punishment. How, exactly, is it truly a punishment? It is painless, there is no suffering, and people on death row are iirc kepted in their own cells and away from inmates, so they do not get harassed or hurt.

there are also the ethical arguments. Who benefits from the death penalty? The public sure doesnt; locked up or in the grave, he is not going to harm society any more. The survivors? Killing someone isnt going to bring your friend or family member back to life, and studies show it does not bring closure.

Furthermore, and I hate to bring it up again, but there is the whole paradox concerning the death penalty: if a society practices the death penalty, and if even one innocent person is executed, then that society has commited murder and therefore deserves execution. And given the amount of people released from death row in the past decade due to new evidence, it is pretty safe to assume we have executed more than a few innocent people.

executions get me wet

...too many innocent people in jail
...left up to a jury of your 'peers' (after serving on jury duty and seeing these 'peers', this is a very frightening notion)
...inequalities in representation
= I cannot support the death penalty

Take care of those things though, and I will be happy to fry a great many prisoners.

rawsavon

I think this is pretty much the issue with me too. I've been on a few juries, and during the trial itself we can't talk about what we see and hear. As a result, I've been floored each time when we submit our initial votes during deliberations, and completely flabbergasted during our arguments. I've had fellow jurors tell me it was their job to convict :?

The experience was bad enough that I always felt that if ever accused falsely of a crime, I'd ask for a verdict from the Judge.

keeping him locked up is justice. Having a death penalty is a dated, archaic system of punishment. How, exactly, is it truly a punishment? It is painless, there is no suffering, and people on death row are iirc kepted in their own cells and away from inmates, so they do not get harassed or hurt.mrbojangles25

How exactly is having your life extinguished *not* a punishment? How many prisoners on death row have fought tooth and nail to have their sentence reduced to life imprisonment because they didn't want to die?

I get that you don't like the death penalty, but arguing that it isn't a punishment against the obvious reality of it isn't going to help that cause. If it's not a punishment, then what the hell is so bad about it that it needs to be abolished?!?

[QUOTE="rawsavon"]

...too many innocent people in jail
...left up to a jury of your 'peers' (after serving on jury duty and seeing these 'peers', this is a very frightening notion)
...inequalities in representation
= I cannot support the death penalty

Take care of those things though, and I will be happy to fry a great many prisoners.

m0zart

I think this is pretty much the issue with me too. I've been on a few juries, and during the trial itself we can't talk about what we see and hear. As a result, I've been floored each time when we submit our initial votes during deliberations, and completely flabbergasted during our arguments. I've had fellow jurors tell me it was their job to convict :?

The experience was bad enough that I always felt that if ever accused falsely of a crime, I'd ask for a verdict from the Judge.

I say good riddance. If we set an example for what happens to whomever murders and/or rapes, then there would be significantly less murders and rapes IMO.

Neo-ganon

[QUOTE="majoras_wrath"]Good job Texas at violating an international treaty and damaging Americas image in the world! Let me applaud your stupidity.Ace6301

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]keeping him locked up is justice. Having a death penalty is a dated, archaic system of punishment. How, exactly, is it truly a punishment? It is painless, there is no suffering, and people on death row are iirc kepted in their own cells and away from inmates, so they do not get harassed or hurt.m0zart

How exactly is having your life extinguished *not* a punishment? How many prisoners on death row have fought tooth and nail to have their sentence reduced to life imprisonment because they didn't want to die?

I get that you don't like the death penalty, but arguing that it isn't a punishment against the obvious reality of it isn't going to help that cause. If it's not a punishment, then what the hell is so bad about it that it needs to be abolished?!?

it is a punishment, but relative to his crime it really is not a suitable one. A quick, painless death is no punishment for a rapist and murderer.

it is a punishment, but relative to his crime it really is not a suitable one. A quick, painless death is no punishment for a rapist and murderer.mrbojangles25

I think most of those on Death Row would probably disagree. They tend to want to live, even if it's behind bars. There are only a very few exceptions.

I think this argument that death isn't good enough for rapists and murderers is just a ruse by the death-penalty opponents, an attempt at reverse psychology on death penalty advocates on the belief that they want the maximum punishment. It doesn't work because death penalty advocates tend to recognize that life in prison isn't anywhere near the level of punishment that the death penalty is (along with just about everyone else, especially those convicted of a crime in which the death penalty could be applied). After much history of using this argument and failing, it's become a meme for death penalty opponents -- something they repeat without realizing how absurd it is.

Being someone who can't make himself support the death penalty in our current system, I've never understood why the argument even exists. It's a misstep that takes us not even one step closer to a change, and might even take us a few steps away. Any individual who took that argument seriously at face value would almost have to believe his real calling was to reform the prison system rather than abolish the death penalty.

Death penalty FTW.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]it is a punishment, but relative to his crime it really is not a suitable one. A quick, painless death is no punishment for a rapist and murderer.m0zart

I think most of those on Death Row would probably disagree. They tend to want to live, even if it's behind bars. There are only a very few exceptions.

I think this argument that death isn't good enough for rapists and murderers is just a ruse by the death-penalty opponents, an attempt at reverse psychology on death penalty advocates on the belief that they want the maximum punishment. It doesn't work because death penalty advocates tend to recognize that life in prison isn't anywhere near the level of punishment that the death penalty is (along with just about everyone else, especially those convicted of a crime in which the death penalty could be applied). After much history of using this argument and failing, it's become a meme for death penalty opponents -- something they repeat without realizing how absurd it is.

Being someone who can't make himself support the death penalty in our current system, I've never understood why the argument even exists. It's a misstep that takes us not even one step closer to a change, and might even take us a few steps away.

some people believe that death is preferable to being locked up for the rest of your life. To those that believe this, it is not absurd.

Its a pretty simple argument, and it makes plenty of sense. I think you are reading too far into the "psychology" of the argument when in truth it is quite straight forward.

Though I do admit that the number of people that would actually choose death, if given the choice of general population or death,is pretty small: the human will to live is strong, and would often override logic in a lot of cases.

If I raped a bunch of 13 year olds and killed them, and got caught, I would pray for the death penalty. Death is preferable to being exposed to thousands of people like me in a confined areafor the next 60 years or, worse, locked in a hole all by myself for 60 years.

*Also, how many of those death row inmates you claim would disagree are filing appeals? How many cling to life simply out of a misguided sense of hope? I am sure if the judge and jury somehow actually witness the crime, and the guy knew it, he'd be like "Fine, go ahead, there is no hope here, throw the switch"

Save the money and put a bullet in his head. If he survives it, put another one in his head. Death is what he deserved.

If I raped a bunch of 13 year olds and killed them, and got caught, I would pray for the death penalty. Death is preferable to being exposed to thousands of people like me in a confined areafor the next 60 years or, worse, locked in a hole all by myself for 60 years.mrbojangles25

I don't think that's correct. Most of all, I don't think it would be what those who find themselves in that situation believe. The desire to stay alive produces rather than dissipates logic.

Everytime I hear this argument from death penalty opponents, it makes me wonder why abolishing the death penalty is so important to them. And no, I don't believe it is by and large because they want more suffering for the convicted, especially since that community tends to argue against the death penalty specifically because they don't believe it is truly absent suffering.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]it is a punishment, but relative to his crime it really is not a suitable one. A quick, painless death is no punishment for a rapist and murderer.m0zart

I think most of those on Death Row would probably disagree. They tend to want to live, even if it's behind bars. There are only a very few exceptions.

I think this argument that death isn't good enough for rapists and murderers is just a ruse by the death-penalty opponents, an attempt at reverse psychology on death penalty advocates on the belief that they want the maximum punishment. It doesn't work because death penalty advocates tend to recognize that life in prison isn't anywhere near the level of punishment that the death penalty is (along with just about everyone else, especially those convicted of a crime in which the death penalty could be applied). After much history of using this argument and failing, it's become a meme for death penalty opponents -- something they repeat without realizing how absurd it is.

Being someone who can't make himself support the death penalty in our current system, I've never understood why the argument even exists. It's a misstep that takes us not even one step closer to a change, and might even take us a few steps away.

With the death penalty, you are dead and that's the end of it. Game over, thanks for playing. But with prolonged solitary confinement, you become dead on the inside but you are still somehow hanging around. You might as well be dead, but for some reason you aren't. It brings up an interesting existential debate - what is preferable, to cease existing or to be subject to an extremely torturous existence for an indefinite period of time?

Although my opposition to the death penalty has nothing to do with the fact that there might be harsher punishments available. In fact, I think solitary confinement is a questionable practice that is often overlooked.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]If I raped a bunch of 13 year olds and killed them, and got caught, I would pray for the death penalty. Death is preferable to being exposed to thousands of people like me in a confined areafor the next 60 years or, worse, locked in a hole all by myself for 60 years.m0zart

I don't think that's correct. Most of all, I don't think it would be what those who find themselves in that situation believe. The desire to stay alive produces rather than dissipates logic.

Everytime I hear this argument from death penalty opponents, it makes me wonder why abolishing the death penalty is so important to them. And no, I don't believe it is by and large because they want more suffering for the convicted, especially since that community tends to argue against the death penalty specifically because they don't believe it is truly absent suffering.

why is it so difficult to believe that some people do not view the death penalty as a just and appropriate punishment because it is too quick and painless?

1. It causes little to no suffering; while I do not advocate cruel and unusual treatment, there needs to be some sort of psychological turmoil put upon the convicted.

2. The point of punishment is to educate; if you do not get punished for a lengthy time for a serious crime, how do you learn that what you did was wrong?

3. There is no chance for rehabilitation; as much as we don't want this guy walking the streets, the simple truth is that if he has legitimately "learned his lesson" and can become a productive member of society, he does not deserve to be in jail at that point.

4. The "Death Penalty Paradox"

5. Costs of legal fees as a result of appeals

These are the reasons I do not support the death penalty. I simply do not see execution as a punishment relative to the crime, especially for people that have faith in a higher power, which is the bulk of people out there (especially those close to death...no atheists in foxholes, so the saying goes :P )

step 1: rape and kill a girl
step 2: get caught and found guilty
step 3: confess your sins, beg for forgiveness, receive it
step 4: get executed
step 5: go to heaven

Seems like theyre getting off easy, in my opinion.

1. It causes little to no suffering; while I do not advocate cruel and unusual treatment, there needs to be some sort of psychological turmoil put upon the convicted.mrbojangles25

I haven't said even once that some people don't believe it. In fact, I've said that some do believe that, even convicts. It is however a useless argument in the debate because the vast majority do not believe that, and it is demonstrated regularly among those who work hard to save people from death to serve life in prison, and not because they want them to suffer more either.

This meme ends up in fact sounding like mixed signals from the anti-death-penalty crowd. One minute a proponent hears that it's a terrible punishment because it causes suffering and that no method can guarantee a lack of pain. The next they hear that it's not good enough for people who are rapists and murders because they don't suffer enough. I think any rational person who is against suffering even for convicts would take that argument and think "Boy, I should really stop arguing against the death penalty here and start seriously arguing for prison reform."

And certainly, that's how someone like myself tends to take it.

[QUOTE="m0zart"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]it is a punishment, but relative to his crime it really is not a suitable one. A quick, painless death is no punishment for a rapist and murderer.-Sun_Tzu-

I think most of those on Death Row would probably disagree. They tend to want to live, even if it's behind bars. There are only a very few exceptions.

I think this argument that death isn't good enough for rapists and murderers is just a ruse by the death-penalty opponents, an attempt at reverse psychology on death penalty advocates on the belief that they want the maximum punishment. It doesn't work because death penalty advocates tend to recognize that life in prison isn't anywhere near the level of punishment that the death penalty is (along with just about everyone else, especially those convicted of a crime in which the death penalty could be applied). After much history of using this argument and failing, it's become a meme for death penalty opponents -- something they repeat without realizing how absurd it is.

Being someone who can't make himself support the death penalty in our current system, I've never understood why the argument even exists. It's a misstep that takes us not even one step closer to a change, and might even take us a few steps away.

With the death penalty, you are dead and that's the end of it. Game over, thanks for playing. But with prolonged solitary confinement, you become dead on the inside but you are still somehow hanging around. You might as well be dead, but for some reason you aren't. It brings up an interesting existential debate - what is preferable, to cease existing or to be subject to an extremely torturous existence for an indefinite period of time?

Although my opposition to the death penalty has nothing to do with the fact that there might be harsher punishments available. In fact, I think solitary confinement is a questionable practice that is often overlooked.

Good. One less scumbag on Earth.

This man raped, then killed a teenager. I think he deserved it, but it's a shame that it took this long to get him executed.

th3warr1or

You are correct my brother and I agree 100%, I can't believe that there are actually people out there who feel sorry for the scumbag.

While I think that the death penalty should be reserved for the most hainous crimes, this one fits the bill.

Honestly why don't we just execute all rapists and child molesterores? They deserve it. Or at least through them in prison with life sentences. They should NEVER be released and they CANNOT be "rehabiltated" sorry they can't.

The only hang-up to this is that if an American is accused of a crime in another country, and that country's laws deem DEATH to be the punishment, the USA has no grounds for any sort of appeal to protect the American citizen.

Murder and Rape may be clear-cut Death Penalty crimes in the USA, but something like adultery is considered a death-penalty crime in other countries. Would you be content about an American in an extremist Islamic country being put to death for kissing a married Islamic woman? Even if it was not meant to be sexual in any way whatsoever?

That's where things start getting dicey.

The only hang-up to this is that if an American is accused of a crime in another country, and that country's laws deem DEATH to be the punishment, the USA has no grounds for any sort of appeal to protect the American citizen.

Murder and Rape may be clear-cut Death Penalty crimes in the USA, but something like adultery is considered a death-penalty crime in other countries. Would you be content about an American in an extremist Islamic country being put to death for kissing a married Islamic woman? Even if it was not meant to be sexual in any way whatsoever?

That's where things start getting dicey.

Netherscourge