The best proof of god

People doing good and evil things, has nothing to do with if there is a god or not.

Firstly the only who seems to have trouble with how tax deductions work is you, and i am guessing you are still trying to claim 2+2 is 6.

Also no he didn´t mean a clear distinction, because if he did he would have responded to you and told you what distinction he was referring to. You however love being argumentative and when you caught wind of someone you could troll a bit you jumped on it.

Again its allowed to use your brain and when he said Religions assume he meant the current ones not anything else, i am sure that he would have corrected you if your assumption was somewhat incorrect.

Its so funny to hear you try to argue against the fact about tax-deduction. And it all comes from you just wanting to troll. Its actually unbelievable that you would even try to argue against it.

Also no you didn´t ask him why, you asked in such a way that it could only be conceived as a attempt to be argumentative and derailment of the debate because for you there is only black/white.

@thegerg: it's odd that he's not getting it

@thegerg:

No you are not telling me how tax deductions work, you got that reversed i am telling you how the real world works.

And you asked a question that clearly didn't need to be asked, anyone who read that post knew that he meant any religion currently in play its not that hard.

What you do not just here or with our other little debate is be literal-bob, if i said "i drilled that girl" you would be asking "meh how can you drill a girl, did you use a Bosch or Stanley" Just because the whole routine is be argumentative and troll people.

The tax deductions thing was a pretty bad point regardless.

I'm going to assume thegerg is being silly with about the phrasing with whatever he is saying about the religions thing though

The only thing i demonstrated was that you clearly can't put 2 and 2 together. Again if i donate 500$ i can deduct the entire amount from my gross taxable income, meaning that its 500$ less, its not that hard to understand. Current us tax laws allows for full amount deductions up to 50% of the gross income. So how can you not understand that giving to charity is also giving back to yourself.

And 100% yes you would ask like i was saying i literally drilled a girl, i have been here as long as you have and i have seen your posts so i know just how argumentative you are.

Also again no he didn´t make a clear distinction you took it as such there is a difference, most of the other in this thread understood perfectly what he meant and saw no reason to go into "troll" mode and argue with him over something like that.

Thats exactly what i said in the other thread as well. Also if i deduct 500$ of my gross taxable income, i pay less tax so if i pay 25% tax and i earn lets for sake of being lazy, say 10.500$ meaning that i would need to pay my 25% tax of 10.000 and not 10.500. So i hope you now get it

Of course i did, he meant religions meaning the usual suspects, that he later used the wikilist doesnt change his initial post was perfectly understandable.

@Jacanuk: :)

The more important question is why do people believe in evolution and big bang theory so much? LMAO just like religion some scientist came up with a theory, wrote a paper about it and now all of you walk around mindlessly preaching his gospel. Where is his evidence? Have you seen it? I am not even religious but atheist douchbags who never shutup about god are annoying. FYI you are the new religious zealots. The religion of science with no proof hahaha but it's science.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon-eating_bacteria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_evolution

I hope you were just being sarcastic. There is more solid, observable evidence in favour of the existence of evolution than gravity.

That has nothing to do with bacteria evolving into fish, fish lizard, rodent, then monkey and finally man.

I can feel gravity with every step.

You should learn more about evolution. Speciation takes thousands of years and hundreds of generations to occur. You don't have one animal giving birth to an entirely new animal. That's not how it works.

You can feel gravity, but can you explain how it works?

We can explain how evolution works and can prove it exists beyond any doubt. You are just denying the massive mountain of evidence in front of you.

A rat that grows bigger teeth because the wood is harder is adaptation not evolution. Evolution means that rat became a black man in sub-Saharan Africa. Where's the evidence for this?

Gravity is simple. Universe is nothing but electrical energy that feeds off itself. In order to feed it must group together which adds weight. Since space is a weightless vacuum this creates gravity. Like adaptation the energy must create gravity to prosper. Without the energy there is no gravity.

Now I know you are trolling. Nobody is this stupid.

@foxhound_fox: I did pretty good with the gravity one though. Pulled that out of my ass too.

Well done, you had me going for a couple posts.

Believe? They are not beliefs, they are theories. Mathematically valid. They are demonstrable and formally valid, that's why they are great theories backed by many scientists.

Theories with holes that can be deconstructed are weak and doesn't get into scientific consensus.

But no one "believes" in them. They are actually under scrutiny all the time by the scientific community.

For example, you want to criticise the Higgs' Boson theory? Then find a hole in his lagrangian formulation.

This is how you show how a scientific concept is false: you prove it false scientifically, through logic. You can do this through argumentation (when the model is limited to speech), or argumentation backed by equations, formulas, lagrangian formulations, etc.

You want to show how the BBT is invalid? Prove it otherwise. Yet no one still has a complete substitute to this model. There are critics everywhere, and it isn't complete, that's for sure. And it doesn't explain the origin of the primary singularity. But what it does explain, it does it quite well.

@xeno_ghost: Even when science does explain something all you religious folk just say "god put that there to test our faith, science is lies".

Remain ignorant if you want. Consciousness is quite simple. You say we each feel and react differently to different scenarios. That's because we are raised and wired that way. You can reprogram your brain to think and act differently if you want. It's all about who you are with and how you are raised, no different from a computer doing what it was programmed to do by its creator.

Damn I wish GS didn't have freakin limitations to sig size! That's definitely sigworthy!

hahaha

um

if i treat people well just because

and you treat people well because you fear eternal hell

then who is the real "moral" person

one might ask

Pretty much this..having morals,values,manners,kindness,love and compassion are just part of humans..NOT a god..There is NO proof of god in biblical times,and STILL TO THIS DAY..zero proof..BUT watch out!!! JESUS IS COMING BACK!! "as my great grandmother would say"..lol..

@prawephet: "Even when science does explain something all you religious folk just say "god put that there to test our faith,"

That makes not one gram of sense.

The test of faith is when something bad happens to you and you still have faith through the bad times, I don't know what test of faith you're on about.

@VanDammFan: "as my great grandmother would say"..lol.."

Seems you don't have any morals laughing at your great grans beliefs on a gaming site.

What you want us to all join in with you in laughing at your gran? ok, yeh that biatch is crazy lol!!!!

Praline has it right. People who only hold morals because of their faith and wouldn't if they didn't have them seem to be awful people. Luckily this seems to be a small minority of the religious folks I met. Most are lovely people.

Bullshit. There is no evidence that any Gods exist except in the imagination of delusional men.

There are hundreds of different gods and god beliefs. Any REAL god would surely make it abundantly clear, that he is the real god and all the others are fakes. He would surely use his unlimited power to expose and eliminate all the fakes. Why would he permit his creations to be misled by all these false gods and religions?

If there was a REAL god, would he not destroy the hundreds of false gods and establish his authenticity, wishes and commands directly from his heaven.

If man, supposedly created by god, can communicate with the whole world by Phone, Radio, the Internet and TV it obviously would be no problem for any real god to communicate directly with his creations without thousands of human intermediates of questionable veracity.

Why would not a real god announce directly and authoritatively from his heaven, that he is the real god and what documents are authentic and which are fakes and destroy the fakes? He certainly should want to prevent his creations from being deceived and mislead.

Although billions of people have died there is not a single 'authenticated and proven' case where anyone of them has ever communicated with their living children, spouses or friends.

Why would god not allow these souls in his heaven to explain and confirm the virtues, benefits and even the existence of his heaven? Logic says it is because they no longer exist except in peoples imaginations!

Religions are ALL based on ancient myths and fables and NO god has directly AUTHENTICATED ANY of them.

Man can directly communicate with the whole world via TV, the Internet, Phone and Radio and the postal service. IF there is a real god, why does he not announce to the whole world from his heaven, by at least equally effective means, that he is the real god and all the others are fakes? And why does he not tell us clearly and directly what he expects from us instead of using hundreds of vague, ancient, contradictory, unoriginal documents, compiled by different religions and thousands of men of unknown veracity? Why does he not expose and smite all the false gods and doctrines?

An all powerful creator of this huge Universe would have no need or desire for people to sing hymns and waste their time on their knees in adulation and building expensive churches that no god ever visits from his elegant heaven. This type of thing is the practice of greedy leaders with a need to satisfy their selfish egos and followers.

An all-powerful creator of this huge Universe and everything in it would have no need or desire to create Sin, Devils, Evil, Spirits, Heavens or Hells

There would be no need for basing ones life on 'FAITH' and the preaching's of errant selfish men because we would have direct communication and authentication directly from this all powerful REAL god

There is no evidence that any of these gods communicate with any honest or fully sane persons.

No dead fathers, mothers, relatives or friends have ever communicated with their their living siblings or friends from Heaven.

There is an overwhelming multitude of religions and god beliefs. They can't all be true and no REAL god would permit this massive deception of his creations.

Any all powerful creator, all loving and caring intelligent designer, would not create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Earthquakes, Wars, Cancers and thousands of debilitating diseases, serious body malfunctions and starvation all of which punish people indiscriminately regardless of their behavior or religious beliefs. If he did he would not be an all loving all caring god but a brutal malevolent creature or nothing at all. There are 12,000 known diseases that torture and kill man. The reality is that no all loving and all powerful god would create or permit these diseases to punish men of all religious persuasion and particularly totally INNOCENT CHILDREN.

No sane non-delusional person has ever seen, talked to or heard from any God. All Gods are purely the figments of people's hopes and imaginations.

Would any real loving and caring intelligent designer, create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes, Volcanic Eruptions, Floods, Wars, Earthquakes, Cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and serious body malfunctions? There are 12,000 known diseases that affect and punish mankind indiscriminately. Why does he permit millions of both young and old to starve to death or die of miserable diseases? Why punish millions of INNOCENT CHILDREN in this horrible way?

Why did this all powerful and loving creator create things like sharks, jellyfish, octopus, lions, tigers, rhinoceros, wolves, poisonous snakes, stinging and poisonous insects, poisonous plants etc.? Why did this caring and benevolent God create animals (including man) that need to painfully kill and eat other animals to survive?

World War I claimed 9,000,000 lives of people of many religious faiths.

World II indiscriminately claimed over 20,000,000 lives of people of all ages and religious faiths, plus a vast destruction of property and more millions maimed for life.

The recent Asian Tsunami has claimed the lives of 200,000 men, women and children of all religious persuasions. Over 100,000 of these were totally INNOCENT children!

There were three major epidemics of the Bubonic Plaque - in the 6th, 14th. and 17th centuries. The death toll was over 137 million men, women and totally innocent children.

The influenza of 1918-1919 killed at least 25 million men, women and innocent children indiscriminately.

Diseases like malaria, AIDS, tuberculosis, etc. maim and kill millions indiscriminately every year. More millions die of starvation and malnutrition.

These indiscriminately afflicted the young and old, atheists and those of ALL religious persuasions.

Meanwhile MAN, not god, has developed defenses and cures for hundreds of serious diseases. Man has learned to create shelter, heat and cooling, purify water, world wide electronic communications, power and transportation systems including flying through the air. Man has created a wonderful medical and drug system and improved housing and food production. The result of MAN'S inventiveness has DOUBLED the average life span. None of this was created by any gods.

Objective verifiable evidence indicates the Universe is greater than 20 BILLION LIGHT YEARS in diameter. When you consider that light travels at 186,000 MILES PER SECOND, the Universe is incomprehensible in size and by comparison. Our World, is but a speck of dust in this vast Universe.

The scientific evidence is that our World is over 4 BILLION YEARS old. Archaeological evidence is that man has existed on earth for less than one million years. When the various books of the Bible were written, most of mankind believed the world was flat and the Sun, Stars and Planets revolved around the Earth. Many believed that Christopher Columbus might sail to the edge of the earth, and might fall off, during his trip that discovered the new continent.

In 1492 and Biblical times the majority of the world assumed the earth was flat and the Son, Stars and planets revolved around the Earth. Columbus proved the Earth to be round.

By the 16 Th. century, scientists like Galileo, determined that the Earth, Stars and Planets of our solar system revolved around the Sun. This spread through the scientific community and the majority accepted this reality by the 1800's. We now know from actual evidence, the earth is but an inconsequential speck of dust in this unimaginably vast Universe. It is scientific opinion that thousands and perhaps millions of planets, similar to Earth, exist in this huge Universe.

Man is but grains of sand on this large Earth and less than dust in this vast Universe. The 7 BILLION persons currently on this planet do not appear to be of any significant consequence in this vast Universe.

Despite all these discoveries, NO_NADA objective verifiable evidence has ever been found for the actual existence of any of the hundreds of Gods believed in and worshipped by man.

As you can see, there is a wealth of objective verifiable evidence that no gods actually exist. There is NO_NADA objective verifiable evidence of any Gods actual existence except in the hopes and imaginations of man.

Logic and common sense that refutes the existence of any omnipotent gods;

Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then where does evil come from? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him a god?

Religion is things hoped for but not yet seen or proven. Science is things seen and proven but not necessarily hoped for.

There is NO objective verifiable evidence that any Gods, Heavens, Sin, Hells, Devils or Angels exist except in the imaginations of man. These beliefs are held to help people deal with their panic fear of death and what comes after.

When there is NO objective verifiable evidence for something's existence it is logical to assume it does no exist. The LACK of evidence is not evidence of something's existence.

The objective evidence is that no gods created man but quite the opposite; that man created imaginary gods! (thousands of them!)

@pariah3:

I was just explaining why good and bad exist in the world.

If it's bullshit then what's your explanation as to why good and bad things happen.

Why is it so hard to except that things which occur in nature are the result of chance, cause-and-effect and random factors and that God has nothing whatsoever to do with why things in nature occur as they do?

@pariah3: "Any REAL god would surely make it abundantly clear, that he is the real god and all the others are fakes."

How do you know what a a REAL God would do, just because it's what you would do?

"Man can directly communicate with the whole world via TV, the Internet, Phone and Radio and the postal service. IF there is a real god, why does he not announce to the whole world from his heaven, by at least equally effective means, that he is the real god and all the others are fakes?"

You already said this earlier on in the same post, your post is already long why make it longer by repeating yourself?

"Meanwhile MAN, not god, has developed defenses and cures for hundreds of serious diseases. Man has learned to create shelter, heat and cooling, purify water, world wide electronic communications, power and transportation systems including flying through the air. Man has created a wonderful medical and drug system and improved housing and food production. The result of MAN'S inventiveness has DOUBLED the average life span. None of this was created by any gods."

MAN the greatest creation of all LOL!

"Despite all these discoveries, NO_NADA objective verifiable evidence has ever been found for the actual existence of any of the hundreds of Gods believed in and worshipped by man."

There is still alot left to discover about this world and wonderful universe we live in. But it is unlikely we will discover everything we are just to small compared to the big picture.

"Is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then where does evil come from? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him a god?"

Good questions but I don't know the answers.

"There is NO objective verifiable evidence that any Gods, Heavens, Sin, Hells, Devils or Angels exist except in the imaginations of man. These beliefs are held to help people deal with their panic fear of death and what comes after."

No evidence they don't exist either. I can only say that as for life after death, I've seen some weird things with my own eyes that tell me there are things that exist that science can not prove, you can dismiss my claim if you like but I don't care I know what I've seen.

"When there is NO objective verifiable evidence for something's existence it is logical to assume it does no exist."

That's a reasonable assumption I guess.

@pariah3: "Why is it so hard to except that things which occur in nature are the result of chance, cause-and-effect and random factors and that God has nothing whatsoever to do with why things in nature occur as they do?"

What are you talking about, I said that good and bad things happen randomly and that humans have free will to do good or bad. If your talking about actual nature then whats the cause? what caused the cause? What caused that cause which caused the cause? And so on. I don't have the answers bro I just believe that all things were created by something which we can not comprehend, and not created by a long string of coincidences.like you said we are but specs of dust compared to the whole universe, how can specs of dust ever hope to answer what the secrets are of our and our universes existence and if you factor into that the theory that there are many universes......

The cosmological argument (or argument from first cause) doesn't really prove God's existence. See the case against the cosmological argument:

http://www.bigissueground.com/atheistground/ash-againstcosmological.shtml

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081019073327AAPLGFB

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_first_cause

@xeno_ghost: That is exactly what religious folk say when science proves part of the bible to be inaccurate or false. You all just say "god did that to test our faith". Every single time. Dinosaurs-testing your faith. Age of the universe-testing your faith.

It's not just tough times that are a "test". I've heard the line a million times. The reason it's a test of your faith in god is that dinosaurs alone prove the bible inaccurate so you just say god put the bones there to test your faith in god and the bible. You do it every single time.

Newsflash. HUMANS wrote the bible. HUMANS decided what went in and what got cut from the bible. The bible was written in a time when the earth was thought to be the center of the universe. When we couldn't scientifically test something we assigned supernatural properties to it and said god did it.

God is a result of human ignorance as well as arrogance.

@prawephet: "You all just say "god did that to test our faith".

No I don't say that.

"It's not just tough times that are a "test". I've heard the line a million times. The reason it's a test of your faith in god is that dinosaurs alone prove the bible inaccurate so you just say god put the bones there to test your faith in god and the bible. You do it every single time."

I do not, stop lying.

@pariah3: "The cosmological argument (or argument from first cause) doesn't really prove God's existence. See the case against the cosmological argument:"

Arguments against that argument doesn't really disprove either.

To me it's just common sense we were created, if one had never seen a car before and you came across one an learned how the mechanics of that car worked, would you assume that that car was an accident or was it created, everything in a car has a purpose to help with the effiecient running of that car.

Now take something as simple as a tree,it's not actually that simple, it has complex systems all needed to help with maintaining the trees existence even deffensive capabilities it's as if it was engineered that way, Now I hear you say Evolution, Evolution could have been engineered to produce what we have today, everything from the first cause could have been a planned calculated sequence of events to produce what we have now.

I find only accepting what you are told by science very limiting and closed minded, to say with certainty that, there are no gods there are no aliens or there are no ghost is very closed minded. Just because science is to limited and hasn't found a way to prove something exist doesn't mean it for sure doesn't exist.

So you might say "well science can't prove a multi coloured flying unicorn mermaid man doesn't exist so what's your point" my point is that it might exist Lol!!!! On a serious note I have no reason to believe that a multi coloured unicorn exist, but I have a fair few reasons to believe a creator/God exist.

The fact is it's just my beliefs based on my perception of what I see and have seen, you have yours I have mine, I'm not telling you your beliefs are stupid, I respect your beliefs.

Satan is freedom, God is following like sheep, being subjected to something to be controlled in many aspects. its all just metaphorical.

@xeno_ghost "but I have a fair few reasons to believe a creator/God exist."

Please give us your best reasons.

@xeno_ghost: you havnt give any reasons to believe in a creator there.

Just saying its common sense does not make it anymore true.

There is actaully a fair amount of scientific data that supports evolution with out the need to over complicate it by throwing in a creator to explain what we don't understand.

Plus even if evolution would be proven to be completely wrong, it adds 0% to the claim that a god exists.

@thehig1: @TheFlush:

I wonder, do you guys believe there is a possibility that there is other intelligent life out there? Maybe life far superior to ours in every way.

Or do you think there is no life out there that is more intelligent than us?

Or there is no other life out there period?