The Science Behind Religion

What really surprises me, is the people who subjectively believe the bible.

This means: they pick and choose parts of the bible to believe.

What I mean by this being a bad thing is... The Bible is ither real or fiction, if you choose to believe "parts" of it, your ignoring the fact that the other parts you believe as falsities. Why not understand that the bible is not written on factual truths?

Now, don't get me wrong, the bible is a great book... a great fiction.

It has some good virtues in it and some good morals to learn, but in no way is this book conveying any factual truths.

Lets start with the biggest mis-conception.

The Bible was written by "god".

Now, if the bible was written by god, and god is supposidly (by judao-christian beliefs) all loving and all caring, then please explain to me the story of noah and the ark. God kills all humanity and forces Noah to save 2 animals of each? This obviously prooves one of two things. Ither your "god" is evil, or he didn't write this and it is a lie. (If you don't think this one story is enough to proove "god's" evilness or the bible being a lie, look up the story of the Tower of Babel, and other such ridiculousness).

Now lets move on, because you guys won't believe that "god" is evil, we'll say that the bible wasn't written by him, and instead man.

Well now, if the bible was written by man, then obviously it is not perfect by any means.

Lets now consider your beliefs.... If this was written by a man, why would he write it? What would he have to gain...?

The simple answer.

CONTROL.

The Judao-Christian Religions were created to control society, to get them to live as the rulers seen fit.

Think about this, if you didn't have forensics, or any kind of science to catch theives, murders, liers and sexual deviants, what could you do?

EASY, you live in a time when people believe anything you throw at them!

So you make up a belief, and in this belief, you craft those things you do not want them doing into the 10 Commandments.

To seal it all, you make the first, "You must believe this."

Now... Wait, how does that stop anything? Simple in your belief if you break any of these rules, YOU GO TO HELL.

Hell? Whats Hell?

Oh, just this place where you suffer burn and choke and scream and cry and live in eternal torture and agony.

Perfect way to control the masses.

and if you don't believe me that Religion has been used to control the masses, look at fundamentalist Muslims, or the Crusades, or when King James re-wrote the bible.

The funniest thing of it all is. Millions of people still believe this outdated form of control, and its gone so far, that its almost drilled into humanity. These old agendas from Roman Emperors and Medieval Kings, still controlling the 21st Century, its hillarious if you ask me.

Some quotes to end this off.

"What is it the Bible teaches us? - raping, cruelty, and murder. What is it the New Testament teaches us? - to believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married, and the belief of this debauchery is called faith."

[Thomas Paine]

"It will not do to investigate the subject of religion too closely, as it is apt to lead to infidelity."

[Abraham Lincoln]

"The Bible has noble poetry in it... and some good morals and a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies."

"Religion only serves to bring one truth of humanity to light, history repeats itself, where history is the idiocy of man."

[Rifkin]

I just don't understand why people believe that the Bible is the truth in the first place. Why not just pick another book?SolidSnake35

yeah..pick another book...

[QUOTE="SolidSnake35"]I just don't understand why people believe that the Bible is the truth in the first place. Why not just pick another book?kirk4ever

yeah..pick another book...

Books aren't the new thing, movies are. So pick a movie instead, like Star Wars. All hail Boba Fett!

all talk, but no evidence *yawn*notconspiracy

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]all talk, but no evidence *yawn*bman784

EDIT: The whole argument is built upon the premise that the bible was written to control people, and he presented no evidence to support his case other than the possibility that it was written to control people, but no evidence that it actually was written to control people

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"]all talk, but no evidence *yawn*notconspiracy

EDIT: The whole argument is built upon the premise that the bible was written to control people, and he presented no evidence to support his case other than the possibility that it was written to control people, but no evidence that it actually was written to control people

Epic Fail on that counter-argument. Never at any time did I cite my opinions as facts. These are merely my opinions on the matter, and if you failed to see that, then you fail at life.

What really surprises me, is the people who subjectively believe the bible.

This means: they pick and choose parts of the bible to believe.

What I mean by this being a bad thing is... The Bible is ither real or fiction, if you choose to believe "parts" of it, your ignoring the fact that the other parts you believe as falsities. Why not understand that the bible is not written on factual truths?Rifkin-

Now, don't get me wrong, the bible is a great book... a great fiction.Rifkin-

It has some good virtues in it and some good morals to learn, but in no way is this book conveying any factual truths.Rifkin-

Lets start with the biggest mis-conception.

The Bible was written by "god".Rifkin-

Now, if the bible was written by god, and god is supposidly (by judao-christian beliefs) all loving and all caring, then please explain to me the story of noah and the ark. God kills all humanity and forces Noah to save 2 animals of each? This obviously prooves one of two things. Ither your "god" is evil, or he didn't write this and it is a lie. (If you don't think this one story is enough to proove "god's" evilness or the bible being a lie, look up the story of the Tower of Babel, and other such ridiculousness).Rifkin-

Now lets move on, because you guys won't believe that "god" is evil, we'll say that the bible wasn't written by him, and instead man.

Well now, if the bible was written by man, then obviously it is not perfect by any means.

Lets now consider your beliefs.... If this was written by a man, why would he write it? What would he have to gain...?

The simple answer.

CONTROL.

The Judao-Christian Religions were created to control society, to get them to live as the rulers seen fit.

Think about this, if you didn't have forensics, or any kind of science to catch theives, murders, liers and sexual deviants, what could you do?

EASY, you live in a time when people believe anything you throw at them!

So you make up a belief, and in this belief, you craft those things you do not want them doing into the 10 Commandments.

To seal it all, you make the first, "You must believe this."

Now... Wait, how does that stop anything? Simple in your belief if you break any of these rules, YOU GO TO HELL.

Hell? Whats Hell?

Oh, just this place where you suffer burn and choke and scream and cry and live in eternal torture and agony.

Perfect way to control the masses.

and if you don't believe me that Religion has been used to control the masses, look at fundamentalist Muslims, or the Crusades, or when King James re-wrote the bible.

The funniest thing of it all is. Millions of people still believe this outdated form of control, and its gone so far, that its almost drilled into humanity. These old agendas from Roman Emperors and Medieval Kings, still controlling the 21st Century, its hillarious if you ask me.

Some quotes to end this off.

"What is it the Bible teaches us? - raping, cruelty, and murder. What is it the New Testament teaches us? - to believe that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman engaged to be married, and the belief of this debauchery is called faith."

"It will not do to investigate the subject of religion too closely, as it is apt to lead to infidelity."

"The Bible has noble poetry in it... and some good morals and a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies."

"Religion only serves to bring one truth of humanity to light, history repeats itself, where history is the idiocy of man."

Rifkin-

at face value, that could seem like a good proof for the idea that it was written to control people (motive)

lets apply this logic to nuclear weapons.

The united states right now has over 10,000 nuclear weapons. We all know that they were built to be a deterrent. What if I said that they were really built to take out the middle eastern governments so we could take their oil supplies easily. we certainly have a lot to gain, control of most of the world's oil supply, a chokehold on the oil market, but does that make my assumption true? no it certainly does not.

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]

[QUOTE="bman784"][QUOTE="notconspiracy"]all talk, but no evidence *yawn*Rifkin-

EDIT: The whole argument is built upon the premise that the bible was written to control people, and he presented no evidence to support his case other than the possibility that it was written to control people, but no evidence that it actually was written to control people

Epic Fail on that counter-argument. Never at any time did I cite my opinions as facts. These are merely my opinions on the matter, and if you failed to see that, then you fail at life.

Here you admit that the bible is only to be taken seriously by Fundementalists.

Who (other than crazy fundementalists)says that the bible was written to convey factual truths? its a spiritual handbook, not a science textbook evidence?notconspiracy

Then you say here, in contradiction.

First, this assumes that the bible is literal, and second, this idea of an all-loving god who would never do anything to inconvienince you is nothing more than a preposterous falsehood promoted by televangelists. If you think the story of noah's flood is a display of God's "injustice" then you've have forgotten about the concept of sinnotconspiracy

This contradicts, because you already admit that the bible is not factual truth, so the precept of sin, and its definition in the bible shall hold no sway to your argument.

3 problems, 1: you assume that god is evil while forgetting the concept of sin,notconspiracy

I don't believe in god, period. But to refute your argument I will play along. I never saidgod was evil, I concluded that the bible waswritten by man, in defence of your theory that the deity is benevolent and just, a good god.

2: you assume that man wrote it and dismiss the possibility that it was written by god because you're assuming that god is evilandnotconspiracy

You completing got my argument wrong there, my conclusion was that god was ither good and man wrote the bible, or god is evil and wrote the bible. Not both evil and man writing the bible.

3: you assume that if man wrote it, the only reason he could have wrote it is because of control with no evidence for this conclusion other than the possibility that it was written to control people. notconspiracy

I do not assume anything, I place forward a theory on why and what man would have to gain from creating another religion at this time, as many religions already existed, but many lacked such controls. If you view Religion with a critical eye, you will see that people change religion to fit their own needs and life**** But for your religion to be taken seriously, you need to ither agree that it is all true, or all not, as you weaken the strength in your "religious truth" and "faith" when you admit that parts of your religion are wrong (aka the bible as it is written).

at face value, that could seem like a good proof for the idea that it was written to control people (motive)notconspiracy

Then take it at face value, as you do with your ridiculous religion. Its interesting to see how many irrationalizations you have to come up with to protect your beliefs instead of questioning them.

lets apply this logic to nuclear weapons.

The united states right now has over 10,000 nuclear weapons. We all know that they were built to be a deterrent. What if I said that they were really built to take out the middle eastern governments so we could take their oil supplies easily. we certainly have a lot to gain, control of most of the world's oil supply, a chokehold on the oil market, but does that make my assumption true? no it certainly does not. notconspiracy

You must see what a poorly formed argument that is, as a deterrent is a form of control.

Thanks for coming out, but you should really try saying this stuff to yourself before you litter Gamespot forums with such non-sense and babble.

Also, if you don't think religion controls people, look at Gallileo, or the Stem Cell Research fiasco today.

Religion loves to try and pull its weight around as if it should have some kind of right over the free will of others, its ridiculous.

I'd be fine with religion if it could leave well and good alone, but it is like a spoiled child that always has to have its way.

Here you admit that the bible is only to be taken seriously by Fundementalists.Rifkin-

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]
Who (other than crazy fundementalists)says that the bible was written to convey factual truths? its a spiritual handbook, not a science textbook evidence?Rifkin-

Then you say here, in contradiction.

First, this assumes that the bible is literal, and second, this idea of an all-loving god who would never do anything to inconvienince you is nothing more than a preposterous falsehood promoted by televangelists. If you think the story of noah's flood is a display of God's "injustice" then you've have forgotten about the concept of sinnotconspiracy

This contradicts, because you already admit that the bible is not factual truth, so the precept of sin, and its definition in the bible shall hold no sway to your argument.

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"] 3 problems, 1: you assume that god is evil while forgetting the concept of sin,Rifkin-

I don't believe in god, period. But to refute your argument I will play along. I never saidgod was evil, I concluded that the bible waswritten by man, in defence of your theory that the deity is benevolent and just, a good god.
God also mustinflict justice to be a good god

2: you assume that man wrote it and dismiss the possibility that it was written by god because you're assuming that god is evilandnotconspiracy

You completing got my argument wrong there, my conclusion was that god was ither good and man wrote the bible, or god is evil and wrote the bible. Not both evil and man writing the bible.

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]3: you assume that if man wrote it, the only reason he could have wrote it is because of control with no evidence for this conclusion other than the possibility that it was written to control people. Rifkin-

I do not assume anything, I place forward a theory on why and what man would have to gain from creating another religion at this time, as many religions already existed, but many lacked such controls. If you view Religion with a critical eye, you will see that people change religion to fit their own needs and life**** But for your religion to be taken seriously, you need to ither agree that it is all true, or all not, as you weaken the strength in your "religious truth" and "faith" when you admit that parts of your religion are wrong (aka the bible as it is written).

you're putting forward the idea that the bible was written by man, and you base this on the idea that it could have habeen written to control people. also, why does every single part of the bible have to be true for me to follow it? should I apply this to everything else? take for example the theory of evolution. we dont know the evolutionary history of everything, and evolution has gotten it wrong before on some things, and therefore it was changed, this implies fallibility. if the theory of evolution is not infallible, should I not trust it?

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]at face value, that could seem like a good proof for the idea that it was written to control people (motive)Rifkin-

Then take it at face value, as you do with your ridiculous religion. Its interesting to see how many irrationalizations you have to come up with to protect your beliefs instead of questioning them.

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]lets apply this logic to nuclear weapons.

The united states right now has over 10,000 nuclear weapons. We all know that they were built to be a deterrent. What if I said that they were really built to take out the middle eastern governments so we could take their oil supplies easily. we certainly have a lot to gain, control of most of the world's oil supply, a chokehold on the oil market, but does that make my assumption true? no it certainly does not. Rifkin-

You must see what a poorly formed argument that is, as a deterrent is a form of control.

Thanks for coming out, but you should really try saying this stuff to yourself before you litter Gamespot forums with such non-sense and babble.

Also, if you don't think religion controls people, look at Gallileo, or the Stem Cell Research fiasco today.

Religion loves to try and pull its weight around as if it should have some kind of right over the free will of others, its ridiculous.

I'd be fine with religion if it could leave well and good alone, but it is like a spoiled child that always has to have its way.

Rifkin-

The big bang is about as believable as the easter bunny, in no way should you ever take this theory as truth. No one knows any better, and the idea that the universe has a beginning and an end is also ridiculous, there is no center, there is no end, there was no explosion, the universe is unending and the hubble telescope only comes to support this theory.Rifkin-

second, the big bang theory is supported by the cosmic background radiation, which matches predictions made by the big bang model

and third, if the universe is expanding, then how can it possibly be eternal?

sorry, but an unending universe is ridiculous, as the theory of general relativity (supported by gravitational lensing and observed gravitational waves) refutes the idea of an eternal universe

second, the big bang theory is supported by the cosmic background radiation, which matches predictions made by the big bang model

and third, if the universe is expanding, then how can it possibly be eternal?

notconspiracy

proof.... evidence?

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"] sorry, but an unending universe is ridiculous, as the theory of general relativity (supported by gravitational lensing and observed gravitational waves) refutes the idea of an eternal universe

second, the big bang theory is supported by the cosmic background radiation, which matches predictions made by the big bang model

and third, if the universe is expanding, then how can it possibly be eternal?

Rifkin-

proof.... evidence?

read and be educated.

you know, I've got to say it, im defending the big bang theory against an atheist. this is just crazy

i coulda sworn that the ten commandments taught us to do good...kbubba92

Here are the commandments AS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE.

1Do not have any other gods before Me.

Sounds kinda demanding eh? What happened to free choice? (Also, this is how they checkmate you into their religion)

2You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

He admits he's a jealous god? Interesting, sounds more like a man than a god.

3You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

Apparently you will be condemned for misusing his name, good thing his original name was Yahweh! (Once again, sounds more like a man than an all loving, all forgiving god)

4Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.

For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work-you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.

Once again telling us what to do? What happened to free will you spoke of? Guess that doesn't matter. Also if you notice, god condones the usage of slaves??? WTF Mate?

5Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

And if your mother and father beat you? Rape you? Molest you? Suppose your out of luck. With that even standing aside, this respect is once again being forced upon you, what happened to free will?

6You shall not murder.

Common Sense.

7You shall not commit adultery.

Apparently you're not allowed to have more than one mate... yet other creations of his do this? Strange eh.

8You shall not steal.

Common Sense. How about religion puts this to use and stop stealing the morals of society.

9You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

Strange, this one is the biggest hypocrisy, as Religion is the biggest lie in human history.

10You shall not covet your neighbour's house; you shall not covet your neighbour's wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

Ah, the green-eyed monster. This one is also common sense.

The truth about this is, we don't need these rules anymore, because people know what is right and wrong without someone spoon-feeding it to them.

The only religious rule I agree with is Confucious' Golden Rule. In lamen "Treat others as you would like to be treated."
(and no, Jesus didn't make that one up, he borrowed it from Confucious.)

you know, I've got to say it, im defending the big bang theory against an atheist. this is just crazy

notconspiracy

Why is that crazy? Atheist's aren't a religion where we all agree on one belief. In no way shape or form is the big bang theory associated with Atheists, it is a religious theory that was created by a foolish priest who setup the theory to support the idea that something must has initiated this "big bang". His theory only tries to push the idea that some deity created the universe.

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"]

you know, I've got to say it, im defending the big bang theory against an atheist. this is just crazy

Rifkin-

Why is that crazy? Atheist's aren't a religion where we all agree on one belief. In no way shape or form is the big bang theory associated with Atheists, it is a religious theory that was created by a foolish priest who setup the theory to support the idea that something must has initiated this "big bang". His theory only tries to push the idea that some deity created the universe.

(and no, Jesus didn't make that one up, he borrowed it from Confucious.)

Rifkin-

What one does not wish for oneself, one ought not to do to anyone else; what one recognises as desirable for oneself, one ought to be willing to grant to others.Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius

under teachings.

Confucious' Religion predates Christianity over 1000 years.

[QUOTE="Wikipedia"]What one does not wish for oneself, one ought not to do to anyone else; what one recognises as desirable for oneself, one ought to be willing to grant to others.Rifkin-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucius

under teachings.

Confucious' Religion predates Christianity over 1000 years.

Other than the fact that the Golden Rule is just reworded in the bible? No.

But then again, you have no proof that Jesus even said these things, we're going on a book that we've already agreed is not factual.

So before you cite the Bible, think again.

Other than the fact that the Golden Rule is just reworded in the bible? No.

But then again, you have no proof that Jesus even said these things, we're going on a book that we've already agreed is not factual.

So before you cite the Bible, think again.

Rifkin-

sorry, that logic isn't going to fly

[QUOTE="Rifkin-"]

Other than the fact that the Golden Rule is just reworded in the bible? No.

But then again, you have no proof that Jesus even said these things, we're going on a book that we've already agreed is not factual.

So before you cite the Bible, think again.

notconspiracy

sorry, that logic isn't going to fly

And you think thatparts of the bible are factual? Why don't you research historians in the time of Jesus, and see if you can find any evidence of Jesus' existance, because i'm sure that if this man walked the earth, then obviously someone would make reference to him. (Andciting Josepheus isn't going to cut it,it has been proven that his records are forgeries). Good luck on that hunt.

I could go into detail of disproving the whole bible, but that would be an utter waste of my time, and you would refute it at every chance. So instead, I invite you to go watch Zeigeist Movie and come back to me on this www.zeitgeistmovie.com . I really did enjoy debating over this with you, its only served to further my belief that religious people refuse truth because they'd rather live in their bubble than come to a rational realization.

Good Nite Gamespot Forums.

[QUOTE="notconspiracy"][QUOTE="Rifkin-"]

Other than the fact that the Golden Rule is just reworded in the bible? No.

But then again, you have no proof that Jesus even said these things, we're going on a book that we've already agreed is not factual.

So before you cite the Bible, think again.

Rifkin-

sorry, that logic isn't going to fly

And you think thatparts of the bible are factual? Why don't youresearchhistorians in the time of Jesus, and see if you can find any evidence of Jesus' existance, because i'm sure that if this man walked the earth, then obviously someone would make reference to him. (Andciting Josepheus isn't going to cut it,it has been proven that his records are forgeries). Good luck on that hunt.

I could go into detail of disproving the whole bible, but that would be an utter waste of my time, and you would refute it at every chance. So instead, I invite you to go watch Zeigeist Movie and come back to me on this www.zeitgeistmovie.com . I really did enjoy debating over this with you, its only served to further my belief that religious people refuse truth because they'd rather live in their bubble than come to a rational realization.

Good Nite Gamespot Forums.

apparently those dumbasses didn't realize that ancient egyptians didnt' speak english:lol:
the problem with zeitgeist is that 1: there is no evidence of most of these parallels, and second, most of the real parallels come AFTER the 1st century.

and no, not quite all of josephus' records were proven to be forgeries.

and what about saint paul of tarsus? or pliny the younger, or tacitus? what about the fact that there is absolutely no historical evidence that refutes the existence of jesus?

oh, and by the way, the Romans destroyed the temple of herod in 70 AD, so we dont really have much of any records of 1st century palestine.

in most debates regarding this issue, the prevailing truth is "when the going gets tough, the theists get going"

in this case, the opposite happened

The Bible was written by man. Maybe by crazy guys who thought God talked to them. Maybe God really did talk to them. Maybe God exsists but he isn't omnipotent.

Infact we know for a fact that the Bible was written by different authors.

For instance the J(or Yahwehist author) and P(or Priestly author). The Priestly author portrays God as all-being, etc, etc. While the J author writes God with more humanistic views.

The P verison was written 500 years after the J verison. So maybe in fact the P verison, which is the omnipotent one, was written to control people. And the J verison was maybe written with better intentions in mind.

first, I am a devout Christian but do not believe the Bible to be written or even influenced by God. but I do believe in Christ's message. but the Bible is a book by men.

the reason is simple, it's not a perfect book and it's been under control of men since it's been written. it has been changed a lot, pieces are missing and some things are being kept from us. the Old Testament especially doesn't hold much credibility because none of the original texts are in hand. for example, they say Moses wrote most of the old Testament, but no one knows where his original writings are, all we have are what other Jews wrote up later. which also makes me suspicious because the Jews at the time were known not to treat the prophets nicely when they came, so why wouldn't they changed whatever they didn't like?

another thing, translation errors has made a lot of the Bible not make sense or could lead us to believe something else. for example, the story of Noah TC brought up. people think the whole world was flooded, and that makes no sense. but when you think about it in Hebrew "world" and "earth" mean the same thing (I'm pretty sure of this, correct me if I'm wrong). so really, it was just the area Noah lived in that was flooded which makes more sense.

also, the whole theory that the Bible was used to control people makes no sense. control them to do what? live morally? to what purpose? so you're telling me the disciples of Jesus went out into the world, with only the clothes on their back, suffering pains, persecution, torture and death to preach a message just to control everyone? you're telling me Jesus allowed himself to be pinned to a cross for the hell of controlling people?

and don't give me that crap of finding him in documents. you have to understand that at the time, there were tons of people like Jesus, who would preach all kinds of things and got killed for it. there were other people who would claim to be the Messiah. the only difference between Jesus and them is that Jesus actually had crowds by the thousands following him and performed real miracles.

and I just want to add that I truly believe most Bible bashers never even read the book.

and don't give me that crap of finding him in documents. you have to understand that at the time, there were tons of people like Jesus, who would preach all kinds of things and got killed for it. there were other people who would claim to be the Messiah. the only difference between Jesus and them is that Jesus actually had crowds by the thousands following him and performed real miracles. Pearl_of_Egypt

There has never been, and never will be, any factual proof of miracles. To site that just shows your ignorance towards this whole issue. Why don't you believe in Witchcraft then? Or Voodoo? Because magic and miracles are simply fake.

and I just want to add that I truly believe most Bible bashers never even read the book.

Pearl_of_Egypt

Also, I highly doubt you understand where these people come from. I myself, was born and raised Catholic, (despite my denomination, it is irrelevant, because all of our bibles are the same) and I also took many religion courses in school, and have studied the subject greatly, only to come to the conclusion that Religion is a falsity. It was around the time I got into high school that I started thinking rationally about Religion, and after looking at my old Catholic faith with a critical eye, I started to uncover the lies that they had been feeding me for years.

I'm glad to be an atheist today, and I find it apalling that so many would argue against a set of beliefs that are only trying to further the intelligence of man.

I suppose in the end, you will always believe what you will, as humans are quite stubborn. And after all, it is much easier to live thinking that there is a light at the end of the tunnel for you. Rather than having to be a moral and good citizen just because its the right thing to do.

in most debates regarding this issue, the prevailing truth is "when the going gets tough, the theists get going"

in this case, the opposite happened

notconspiracy

i find that comment extremely distasteful, that is implying that we are somehow smarter than the theists... oh wait...

Thanks, and btw I was tired, but now I'm back.

[QUOTE="Pearl_of_Egypt"]

and don't give me that crap of finding him in documents. you have to understand that at the time, there were tons of people like Jesus, who would preach all kinds of things and got killed for it. there were other people who would claim to be the Messiah. the only difference between Jesus and them is that Jesus actually had crowds by the thousands following him and performed real miracles. Rifkin-

There has never been, and never will be, any factual proof of miracles. To site that just shows your ignorance towards this whole issue. Why don't you believe in Witchcraft then? Or Voodoo? Because magic and miracles are simply fake.

and I just want to add that I truly believe most Bible bashers never even read the book.

Pearl_of_Egypt

Also, I highly doubt you understand where these people come from. I myself, was born and raised Catholic, (despite my denomination, it is irrelevant, because all of our bibles are the same) and I also took many religion courses in school, and have studied the subject greatly, only to come to the conclusion that Religion is a falsity. It was around the time I got into high school that I started thinking rationally about Religion, and after looking at my old Catholic faith with a critical eye, I started to uncover the lies that they had been feeding me for years.

I'm glad to be an atheist today, and I find it apalling that so many would argue against a set of beliefs that are only trying to further the intelligence of man.

I suppose in the end, you will always believe what you will, as humans are quite stubborn. And after all, it is much easier to live thinking that there is a light at the end of the tunnel for you. Rather than having to be a moral and good citizen just because its the right thing to do.

I said "most" Bible bashers, learn how to read.

also, who said Voodoo is fake? that's never proven to be fake at all and black magic is something that can be found all over the world in all cultures throughout all time. you can say it isn't real, but what proof do you have? have you witnessed it first hand? and the fact is, people followed Jesus because unlike other people pretending to be Messiahs, he did something that convinced them he was the real thing, otherwise he would be just another nameless wannabe like the rest. yeah, there is no proof he performed miracles because you weren't born there at the time to witness it, but does that mean he didn't?

you call me ignorant for saying I believe Jesus performed miracles, and just state they're fake, yet have no proof.

also, who said Voodoo is fake? that's never proven to be fake at all and black magic is something that can be found all over the world in all cultures throughout all time. you can say it isn't real, but what proof do you have? have you witnessed it first hand? and the fact is, people followed Jesus because unlike other people pretending to be Messiahs, he did something that convinced them he was the real thing, otherwise he would be just another nameless wannabe like the rest. yeah, there is no proof he performed miracles because you weren't born there at the time to witness it, but does that mean he didn't?

you call me ignorant for saying I believe Jesus performed miracles, and just state they're fake, yet have no proof. Pearl_of_Egypt

Oh you've convinced me with this sound argument. Infact actually, I'm going to start believing in the Sasquatch, the El Chupacabra, Elves, Dwarves, Thor, Hades, Zeus, Wicca as well!

I mean, cmon now, how can I possibly proove these things to be false, as its actually logically impossible!

I suppose you've got me there, checkmate!

But first, I'd like you to proove the miracles to me. Because it seems a bit silly to believe in something just because someone said it happened. Give me some proof, and I'll believe.

[QUOTE="Pearl_of_Egypt"]

also, who said Voodoo is fake? that's never proven to be fake at all and black magic is something that can be found all over the world in all cultures throughout all time. you can say it isn't real, but what proof do you have? have you witnessed it first hand? and the fact is, people followed Jesus because unlike other people pretending to be Messiahs, he did something that convinced them he was the real thing, otherwise he would be just another nameless wannabe like the rest. yeah, there is no proof he performed miracles because you weren't born there at the time to witness it, but does that mean he didn't?

you call me ignorant for saying I believe Jesus performed miracles, and just state they're fake, yet have no proof. Rifkin-

Oh you've convinced me with this sound argument. Infact actually, I'm going to start believing in the Sasquatch, the El Chupacabra, Elves, Dwarves, Thor, Hades, Zeus, Wicca as well!

I mean, cmon now, how can I possibly proove these things to be false, as its actually logically impossible!

I suppose you've got me there, checkmate!

But first, I'd like you to proove the miracles to me. Because it seems a bit silly to believe in something just because someone said it happened. Give me some proof, and I'll believe.

the thing is, all those things you've mentioned are not something that are spoken of wolrdwide throughout all time like black magic and miracles. so I can choose to believe these things are true, or I can choose not to. I don't care if you don't but don't call me ignorant if I do since you can neither prove or disprove them. and I can give you all kinds of stories of miracles but you wouldn't believe because you cannot prove them, these are things you have to have faith in or not. it's quite ridiculous to insult people who choose to believe in these things just because you don't.