The top 3 things Atheists frequently misunderstand about Christians

1. If God created everything, then who created God?

Answer: Well, If time is a manifestation of the will of God, then therefor he created it and everything governed by time was created by God. Thus, since concepts such as The Beginning, Creation, The end, and etc., are concepts of time and God created the concept of time itself, nothing created God.

2.If God is so kind, then why does he let bad things happen.

Answer: God gave humans the power of free will. He is not responsible for his children's actions just as a mother and father are for their children. You can

teach em and show them the way. But in the end, sooner or later you're just gonna have to let go of the handlebars and let them ride solo.

3. If praying is necessary, then how come God doesn't answer all of your prayers?

Well, you see. With God, things are a bit complicated. God hears and knows all of your prayers and receives them constantly. Sometimes a christian might feel as if they are being ignored by the holy father. But the holy father loves and cares for all of his creations. You see, praying is like a Slot Machine. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's just how things work. The bible tells us that we must Pray daily and constantly.

Any questions?

That all Christians are creationists.

Nothing I haven't heard before, besides the third answer. The first answer is possible if you defy the laws of physics, which by definition is physically impossible, but I suppose you could argue that it's physically impossible for nothing to come from something. Well, I'm open to that hypothesis. The second answer ignores the fact that some individuals are predisposed to act evil moreso than others, nevertheless natural disasters that wasn't caused by free will. The third answer completely insults God by saying he rewards some but not others based purely on luck, which isusually a trait absent of divine intervention. A slot machine operates at random. God doesn't. Nature does however, so it makes sense why some prayers are "answered" and some are not.

Praying is like a slot machine? :lol:hummer700

Yeah i thought he didn't like gambling.

I'm not a fan of saints. Or walruses.

Nothing I haven't heard before, besides the third answer. The first answer is possible if you defy the laws of physics, which by definition is physically impossible, but I suppose you could argue that it's physically impossible for nothing to come from something. Well, I'm open to that hypothesis. The second answer ignores the fact that some individuals are predisposed to act evil moreso than others, nevertheless natural disasters that wasn't caused by free will. The third answer completely insults God by saying he rewards some but not others based purely on luck, which usually a trait absent of divine intervention.Genetic_Code

I'm not a fan of saints. Or walruses.

Pikdum

1. If God created everything, then who created God?

Answer: Well, If time is a manifestation of the will of God, then therefor he created it and everything governed by time was created by God. Thus, since concepts such as The Beginning, Creation, The end, and etc., are concepts of time and God created the concept of time itself, nothing created God.

2.If God is so kind, then why does he let bad things happen.

Answer: God gave humans the power of free will. He is not responsible for his children's actions just as a mother and father are for their children. You can

teach em and show them the way. But in the end, sooner or later you're just gonna have to let go of the handlebars and let them ride solo.

3. If praying is necessary, then how come God doesn't answer all of your prayers?

Well, you see. With God, things are a bit complicated. God hears and knows all of your prayers and receives them constantly. Sometimes a christian might feel as if they are being ignored by the holy father. But the holy father loves and cares for all of his creations. You see, praying is like a Slot Machine. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's just how things work. The bible tells us that we must Pray daily and constantly.

Any questions?

SaintWalrus

You're confusing this argument, your logic assumes the existence of god in the first place. Many believers posit the necessity of god's existence as the result of every effect needing a cause, so they say there must be a first cause. That, however, raises a strand of circular logic because if there MUST be a god because something MUST have caused everything, then what caused god? It's self-defeating logic. You attempt to bypass this by assuming the existence of god, but in so doing are practicing nothing but speculation.

Of course god is responsible for the actions of his creations. God is omnipotent, is he not? Therefore he has the ability to influence and control the actions of his creations, or he is not omnipotent. Also, how can you have free will if god already knows all our actions?

If it's like a slot machine then why pray at all? Seems to me that you have just as much chance of having your prayers answered if you actually pray as you do if you don't. Furthermore, if god has a divine plan then what good are prayers?

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"]

1. If God created everything, then who created God?

Answer: Well, If time is a manifestation of the will of God, then therefor he created it and everything governed by time was created by God. Thus, since concepts such as The Beginning, Creation, The end, and etc., are concepts of time and God created the concept of time itself, nothing created God.

2.If God is so kind, then why does he let bad things happen.

Answer: God gave humans the power of free will. He is not responsible for his children's actions just as a mother and father are for their children. You can

teach em and show them the way. But in the end, sooner or later you're just gonna have to let go of the handlebars and let them ride solo.

3. If praying is necessary, then how come God doesn't answer all of your prayers?

Well, you see. With God, things are a bit complicated. God hears and knows all of your prayers and receives them constantly. Sometimes a christian might feel as if they are being ignored by the holy father. But the holy father loves and cares for all of his creations. You see, praying is like a Slot Machine. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's just how things work. The bible tells us that we must Pray daily and constantly.

Any questions?

theone86

You're confusing this argument, your logic assumes the existence of god in the first place. Many believers posit the necessity of god's existence as the result of every effect needing a cause, so they say there must be a first cause. That, however, raises a strand of circular logic because if there MUST be a god because something MUST have caused everything, then what caused god? It's self-defeating logic. You attempt to bypass this by assuming the existence of god, but in so doing are practicing nothing but speculation.

Of course god is responsible for the actions of his creations. God is omnipotent, is he not? Therefore he has the ability to influence and control the actions of his creations, or he is not omnipotent. Also, how can you have free will if god already knows all our actions?

If it's like a slot machine then why pray at all? Seems to me that you have just as much chance of having your prayers answered if you actually pray as you do if you don't. Furthermore, if god has a divine plan then what good are prayers?

I don't like how atheists use any of these arguments. I mean sure their sensible, but it's believing magical things with no evidence for goodness sake. It's like criticizing someone who believes in star wars because "light sabers" seem to far fetched. The whole concept is ridiculous, it has nothing to with specific points. dkdk999

[QUOTE="Pikdum"]

I'm not a fan of saints. Or walruses.

SaintWalrus

1. If God created everything, then who created God?

Answer: Well, If time is a manifestation of the will of God, then therefor he created it and everything governed by time was created by God. Thus, since concepts such as The Beginning, Creation, The end, and etc., are concepts of time and God created the concept of time itself, nothing created God.

2.If God is so kind, then why does he let bad things happen.

Answer: God gave humans the power of free will. He is not responsible for his children's actions just as a mother and father are for their children. You can

teach em and show them the way. But in the end, sooner or later you're just gonna have to let go of the handlebars and let them ride solo.

3. If praying is necessary, then how come God doesn't answer all of your prayers?

Well, you see. With God, things are a bit complicated. God hears and knows all of your prayers and receives them constantly. Sometimes a christian might feel as if they are being ignored by the holy father. But the holy father loves and cares for all of his creations. You see, praying is like a Slot Machine. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's just how things work. The bible tells us that we must Pray daily and constantly.

Any questions?

SaintWalrus

From my understanding usually it's not atheists who stand behind the notion that everything must be created from/by something else but theists who bring it up when talking about the Big Bang and the usual line "well you cant have something out of nothing" is thrown around by them. So the question is justified because suddenly the principle they brought up no longer applies.

As for the second, I wont disagree, it is a kind of stupid question. However some of the confusion stems from the characteristics that are attributed to God and how some theists interpret them and explain them in an absolute way. In this case the characteristic of omnibenevolence. The absolutism of some theists is what causes such incosistancies that atheists feel like bringing up.

The explanation for the third question isnt really a justification. It's a personal view. Depending on where you're coming from, one will think it's a cop-out and others will think it's perfectly acceptable since God is our lord and savior bla bla bla...

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"]

1. If God created everything, then who created God?

Answer: Well, If time is a manifestation of the will of God, then therefor he created it and everything governed by time was created by God. Thus, since concepts such as The Beginning, Creation, The end, and etc., are concepts of time and God created the concept of time itself, nothing created God.

2.If God is so kind, then why does he let bad things happen.

Answer: God gave humans the power of free will. He is not responsible for his children's actions just as a mother and father are for their children. You can

teach em and show them the way. But in the end, sooner or later you're just gonna have to let go of the handlebars and let them ride solo.

3. If praying is necessary, then how come God doesn't answer all of your prayers?

Well, you see. With God, things are a bit complicated. God hears and knows all of your prayers and receives them constantly. Sometimes a christian might feel as if they are being ignored by the holy father. But the holy father loves and cares for all of his creations. You see, praying is like a Slot Machine. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's just how things work. The bible tells us that we must Pray daily and constantly.

Any questions?

theone86

You're confusing this argument, your logic assumes the existence of god in the first place. Many believers posit the necessity of god's existence as the result of every effect needing a cause, so they say there must be a first cause. That, however, raises a strand of circular logic because if there MUST be a god because something MUST have caused everything, then what caused god? It's self-defeating logic. You attempt to bypass this by assuming the existence of god, but in so doing are practicing nothing but speculation.

Of course god is responsible for the actions of his creations. God is omnipotent, is he not? Therefore he has the ability to influence and control the actions of his creations, or he is not omnipotent. Also, how can you have free will if god already knows all our actions?

If it's like a slot machine then why pray at all? Seems to me that you have just as much chance of having your prayers answered if you actually pray as you do if you don't. Furthermore, if god has a divine plan then what good are prayers?

Well a new leading hypothesis among physicists says that the universe might actually be a flat plane, so it IS possible for something to come from nothing. I know absolutely nothing about physics thoughimaps3fanboy

[QUOTE="dkdk999"]I don't like how atheists use any of these arguments. I mean sure their sensible, but it's believing magical things with no evidence for goodness sake. It's like criticizing someone who believes in star wars because "light sabers" seem to far fetched. The whole concept is ridiculous, it has nothing to with specific points. SaintWalrus

No, science was formed from empirical evidence, testing, and a scientific procedure for verifying claims and gathering facts. Your words are what are formed from nonsense.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"]

1. If God created everything, then who created God?

Answer: Well, If time is a manifestation of the will of God, then therefor he created it and everything governed by time was created by God. Thus, since concepts such as The Beginning, Creation, The end, and etc., are concepts of time and God created the concept of time itself, nothing created God.

2.If God is so kind, then why does he let bad things happen.

Answer: God gave humans the power of free will. He is not responsible for his children's actions just as a mother and father are for their children. You can

teach em and show them the way. But in the end, sooner or later you're just gonna have to let go of the handlebars and let them ride solo.

3. If praying is necessary, then how come God doesn't answer all of your prayers?

Well, you see. With God, things are a bit complicated. God hears and knows all of your prayers and receives them constantly. Sometimes a christian might feel as if they are being ignored by the holy father. But the holy father loves and cares for all of his creations. You see, praying is like a Slot Machine. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's just how things work. The bible tells us that we must Pray daily and constantly.

Any questions?

SaintWalrus

You're confusing this argument, your logic assumes the existence of god in the first place. Many believers posit the necessity of god's existence as the result of every effect needing a cause, so they say there must be a first cause. That, however, raises a strand of circular logic because if there MUST be a god because something MUST have caused everything, then what caused god? It's self-defeating logic. You attempt to bypass this by assuming the existence of god, but in so doing are practicing nothing but speculation.

Of course god is responsible for the actions of his creations. God is omnipotent, is he not? Therefore he has the ability to influence and control the actions of his creations, or he is not omnipotent. Also, how can you have free will if god already knows all our actions?

If it's like a slot machine then why pray at all? Seems to me that you have just as much chance of having your prayers answered if you actually pray as you do if you don't. Furthermore, if god has a divine plan then what good are prayers?

I thought god was infallable.. how could his plans go awry?

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"][QUOTE="theone86"]

You're confusing this argument, your logic assumes the existence of god in the first place. Many believers posit the necessity of god's existence as the result of every effect needing a cause, so they say there must be a first cause. That, however, raises a strand of circular logic because if there MUST be a god because something MUST have caused everything, then what caused god? It's self-defeating logic. You attempt to bypass this by assuming the existence of god, but in so doing are practicing nothing but speculation.

Of course god is responsible for the actions of his creations. God is omnipotent, is he not? Therefore he has the ability to influence and control the actions of his creations, or he is not omnipotent. Also, how can you have free will if god already knows all our actions?

If it's like a slot machine then why pray at all? Seems to me that you have just as much chance of having your prayers answered if you actually pray as you do if you don't. Furthermore, if god has a divine plan then what good are prayers?

imaps3fanboy

I thought god was infallable.. how could his plans go awry?

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"]

1. If God created everything, then who created God?

Answer: Well, If time is a manifestation of the will of God, then therefor he created it and everything governed by time was created by God. Thus, since concepts such as The Beginning, Creation, The end, and etc., are concepts of time and God created the concept of time itself, nothing created God.

2.If God is so kind, then why does he let bad things happen.

Answer: God gave humans the power of free will. He is not responsible for his children's actions just as a mother and father are for their children. You can

teach em and show them the way. But in the end, sooner or later you're just gonna have to let go of the handlebars and let them ride solo.

3. If praying is necessary, then how come God doesn't answer all of your prayers?

Well, you see. With God, things are a bit complicated. God hears and knows all of your prayers and receives them constantly. Sometimes a christian might feel as if they are being ignored by the holy father. But the holy father loves and cares for all of his creations. You see, praying is like a Slot Machine. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's just how things work. The bible tells us that we must Pray daily and constantly.

Any questions?

SaintWalrus

You're confusing this argument, your logic assumes the existence of god in the first place. Many believers posit the necessity of god's existence as the result of every effect needing a cause, so they say there must be a first cause. That, however, raises a strand of circular logic because if there MUST be a god because something MUST have caused everything, then what caused god? It's self-defeating logic. You attempt to bypass this by assuming the existence of god, but in so doing are practicing nothing but speculation.

Of course god is responsible for the actions of his creations. God is omnipotent, is he not? Therefore he has the ability to influence and control the actions of his creations, or he is not omnipotent. Also, how can you have free will if god already knows all our actions?

If it's like a slot machine then why pray at all? Seems to me that you have just as much chance of having your prayers answered if you actually pray as you do if you don't. Furthermore, if god has a divine plan then what good are prayers?

But I thought god was an omnipotent and omniscient being who created all things? If that's so then how can he have divine guidelines? If god wants us to be good then why aren't we? That implies that god doesn't always get what he wants, i.e. he is not omnipotent. How can an omnipotent and omniscient being's plans go awry?

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"] The Divine Plan...well...It's more of a guideline really Nothing is already predestined I mean, God WANTS you to be Good, that's in his Plan. But Plans go awry all the time.SaintWalrus

I thought god was infallable.. how could his plans go awry?

Depends on the interpretation I guess. That's mine ^

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"] The Divine Plan...well...It's more of a guideline really Nothing is already predestined I mean, God WANTS you to be Good, that's in his Plan. But Plans go awry all the time.SaintWalrus

I thought god was infallable.. how could his plans go awry?

So you're infallable by ignorance of the consequence?

[QUOTE="Pikdum"]

I'm not a fan of saints. Or walruses.

SaintWalrus

trololo

In all seriousness those aren't frequent misunderstandings. Those answers still don't really say anything to make me believe god is real.

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"] The Divine Plan...well...It's more of a guideline really Nothing is already predestined I mean, God WANTS you to be Good, that's in his Plan. But Plans go awry all the time.SaintWalrus

I thought god was infallable.. how could his plans go awry?

Putting oneself in a position where it is impossible to be wrong does not make one infallible. One who is infallible is, by definition, unable to fail. If god made a plan then it couldn't go awry unless he was in fact fallible.

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"][QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]

I thought god was infallable.. how could his plans go awry?

theone86

Putting oneself in a position where it is impossible to be wrong does not make one infallible. One who is infallible is, by definition, unable to fail. If god made a plan then it couldn't go awry unless he was in fact fallible.

LOL once again a "selective" TC.

Worse than an absent TC.

Top 3 things? I wouldn't say they're even in the top 25 actually. But whatever.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"] God is Infallible If there was a COOKIE on a table and I told you that I can't be wrong And I told you that you were either going to eat the cookie or NOT EAT it Then I am still infallible.SaintWalrus

Putting oneself in a position where it is impossible to be wrong does not make one infallible. One who is infallible is, by definition, unable to fail. If god made a plan then it couldn't go awry unless he was in fact fallible.

Then he must not be omniscient as his plan does not take into account all contingencies.

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"] The Divine Plan...well...It's more of a guideline really Nothing is already predestined I mean, God WANTS you to be Good, that's in his Plan. But Plans go awry all the time.SaintWalrus

I thought god was infallable.. how could his plans go awry?

If God is infallable then he cannot fail. If God's plan is for you to be good, and you are not good, then he has failed. Thus he is not infallable. And to be frank, your cookie logic there is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. You should be barred from arguing on behald of Christianity for that.

You see, praying is like a Slot MachineSaintWalrus

[QUOTE="dkdk999"]I don't like how atheists use any of these arguments. I mean sure their sensible, but it's believing magical things with no evidence for goodness sake. It's like criticizing someone who believes in star wars because "light sabers" seem to far fetched. The whole concept is ridiculous, it has nothing to with specific points. SaintWalrus

LOL once again a "selective" TC.

Worse than an absent TC.

Teenaged

Better they engage their opponents and show the holes in their argument than retreat when they have no answer. It's quite Socratic, actually.

Are these really the top 3 "misunderstandings" about christians? it seems the opening post is trying give an apologist response to things TC believes to be questions held universally by atheists.

and TC's responses are quite funny; especially equating prayer to a slot machine.

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"][QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]

I thought god was infallable.. how could his plans go awry?

worlock77

If God is infallable then he cannot fail. If God's plan is for you to be good, and you are not good, then he has failed. Thus he is not infallable. And to be frank, your cookie logic there is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard. You should be barred from arguing on behald of Christianity for that.

Well, he needs to get in line for that. Maybe Rick Santorum can give him cutsies as long as Aquinas doesn't mind.

and TC's responses are quite funny; especially equating prayer to a slot machine.SirWander

And equating God's infallability with ignorance of the fate of a cookie.

Christians like to think God listens to prayers and sometimes answers those prayers. Why does God sometimes answer and other times does not? And why are certain 'miracles' performed while others get ignored? Why does God allow good people to suffer and bad people to profit?

Because this 'all knowing, loving' God "works in mysterious ways".

And that's the kind of b.s. logic that turned me into a deist.

Why can't god answer everyone's prayers simultaneously? I mean come on, the guy created all existence, can't he just kind of multitask and answer prayers and keep the universe in check or whatever he does other than basking in the praise of his followers. And on that note what does god do anyway, I know he is supposed to keep us safe but according to you he just picks and chooses who he feels like helping, it doesn't matter if you are dying of the final stages of Ebola he could still pick a girl who needs help finding her teddy bear over you. He is an all powerful deity, he can literally do ANYTHING including creating all you see before you and more but he can't help billions of people.metroidprime55

Hey, you.

yeah you.

Psssssssst.

God is Infallible If there was a COOKIE on a table and I told you that I can't be wrong And I told you that you were either going to eat the cookie or NOT EAT it Then I am still infallible.SaintWalrus

The universe exists (or it dosen't) and will proceed as it proceeds (or it won't).

I am as infallible as god.

Christians like to think God listens to prayers and sometimes answers those prayers. Why does God sometimes answer and other times does not? And why are certain 'miracles' performed while others get ignored? Why does God allow good people to suffer and bad people to profit?

Because this 'all knowing, loving' God "works in mysterious ways".

And that's the kind of b.s. logic that turned me into a deist.

KC_Hokie

[QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

Christians like to think God listens to prayers and sometimes answers those prayers. Why does God sometimes answer and other times does not? And why are certain 'miracles' performed while others get ignored? Why does God allow good people to suffer and bad people to profit?

Because this 'all knowing, loving' God "works in mysterious ways".

And that's the kind of b.s. logic that turned me into a deist.

SaintWalrus

[QUOTE="SaintWalrus"][QUOTE="KC_Hokie"]

Christians like to think God listens to prayers and sometimes answers those prayers. Why does God sometimes answer and other times does not? And why are certain 'miracles' performed while others get ignored? Why does God allow good people to suffer and bad people to profit?

Because this 'all knowing, loving' God "works in mysterious ways".

And that's the kind of b.s. logic that turned me into a deist.

KC_Hokie

1. If God created everything, then who created God?

Answer: Well, If time is a manifestation of the will of God, then therefor he created it and everything governed by time was created by God. Thus, since concepts such as The Beginning, Creation, The end, and etc., are concepts of time and God created the concept of time itself, nothing created God.

2.If God is so kind, then why does he let bad things happen.

Answer: God gave humans the power of free will. He is not responsible for his children's actions just as a mother and father are for their children. You can

teach em and show them the way. But in the end, sooner or later you're just gonna have to let go of the handlebars and let them ride solo.

3. If praying is necessary, then how come God doesn't answer all of your prayers?

Well, you see. With God, things are a bit complicated. God hears and knows all of your prayers and receives them constantly. Sometimes a christian might feel as if they are being ignored by the holy father. But the holy father loves and cares for all of his creations. You see, praying is like a Slot Machine. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. That's just how things work. The bible tells us that we must Pray daily and constantly.

Any questions?

SaintWalrus

1. There are thousands of theories on the basis of our existence, but this one is the one I see the most associated with christianity. How do you refute carbon dating or the infinite other reasons for our existence and creation?

2. Africa and mentally challenged children. The AID's outbreak. I could sight you a thousand things that any benevolent god would have control over, but I think you get the point.

3. Praying is equivalent to a slot machine. I like the analogy, but it absolutely does not defend what the mainstream christian would say about prayers. What your saying is that prayers are the equal to chance in our own lives and that praying to god has essentially the same effect. Hmm....