Theism

I am curious to hear what everyone's oppinion on theism is. Are you a theist or atheist? Do you believe there is more harm that comes out of theism than good? Is it a belief that was good to have in the past, but now in the age of science is too simple minded? Now, I don't want this to get out of hand. Let's just share our oppinons and discuss them. Sure we can debate some ideas but just be polite and don't critisize.

Okay, so let's talk. :P

I am curious to hear what everyone's oppinion on theism is. Are you a theist or atheist? Do you believe there is more harm that comes out of theism than good? Is it a belief that was good to have in the past, but now in the age of science is too simple minded? Now, I don't want this to get out of hand. Let's just share our oppinons and discuss them. Sure we can debate some ideas but just be polite and don't critisize.

Okay, so let's talk. :P

Anamosa41

Good luck.....

I believe in God, I just don't follow anything Bible says. What a dreadfully boring read.

hail satan?nimatoad2000

That sure was in-depth. :lol: (Just being funny here.)

I believe there is a God. I believe in one God. I am very specific about that, but I live in America, and I believe people have the right to believe and live however they please.

If you want to believe in something else, go ahead. Live life your own way. Usually, such beliefs don't make or break you as a person. You have to actually apply yourself to that. You can't just go "Sure, there's a God, excuse me while I go rape this woman" and expect it to make a difference.

I'm an agnostic-atheist (not a contradiction). I think religion can be exploited to do damage, but, much like the placebo effect, can also be used for good. It's rather unfortunate the direction the atheist movement is headed, I'm not sure why strident atheists such as Dawkins and Sam Harris feel the need to criticize religion so much.

I'm a pandeist. To me, it is the most logical belief one could have.-Sun_Tzu-

Isn't it possible that the universe simply always existed or that it sprang out of nothing?

I'm an agnostic, though I like pantheism and solipsism, even though the latter is hard to swallow. I don't believe a belief in a God is necessarily a bad thing. It's simply an answer to the unanswerable question. I'm happy enough believing in an afterlife and a deity, and I certainly don't believe I'm 'simple minded'. Also, this thread will not end well.super_mario_128

Well, I'm not very familier with pantheism (but I do know a little bit about it), but I have no clue what solipsism is.

I'm an agnostic, though I like pantheism and solipsism, even though the latter is hard to swallow. I don't believe a belief in a God is necessarily a bad thing. It's simply an answer to the unanswerable question. I'm happy enough believing in an afterlife and a deity, and I certainly don't believe I'm 'simple minded'. Also, this thread will not end well.super_mario_128

I always had a problem with Descartes' "Cogito ergo sum" statement. How did he know consciousness isn't simply an illusion? How can one be so sure of one's existence?

I find a lot of theists to be inexplicably hard to tolerate when they start trying to prove their God(s). As for myself. I guess ultimately I would fall under the agnostic category. However, I have no reason to believe that God is anything else outside of what naturally exists. I don't believe that God is a judgemental super-being that exists outside of our universe. Instead God is everything that encompasses existence. I guess that makes me a pantheist.

Meh. I couldn't care less about theism. There is no reason for me to believe any sort of God, gods or supernatural beings or forces exist. The only "Gods" I see that actually do exist are 1) my parents for creating me and 2) the Sun, water and oxygen for maintaining my life here on Earth.

[QUOTE="super_mario_128"]I'm an agnostic, though I like pantheism and solipsism, even though the latter is hard to swallow. I don't believe a belief in a God is necessarily a bad thing. It's simply an answer to the unanswerable question. I'm happy enough believing in an afterlife and a deity, and I certainly don't believe I'm 'simple minded'. Also, this thread will not end well.BlueBirdTS

I always had a problem with Descarte's "Cogito ergo sum" statement. How did he know consciousness isn't simply an illusion? How can one be so sure of one's existence?

Meh. I couldn't care less about theism. There is no reason for me to believe any sort of God, gods or supernatural beings or forces exist. The only "Gods" I see that actually do exist are 1) my parents for creating me and 2) the Sun, water and oxygen for maintaining my life here on Earth.

foxhound_fox

...George Carlin reference?

...George Carlin reference?-TheSecondSign-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]I'm a pandeist. To me, it is the most logical belief one could have.BlueBirdTS

Isn't it possible that the universe simply always existed or that it sprang out of nothing?

IMO, the latter is impossible. Nothing can create something, if you get what I mean. Something has to exist to create, transform, or evolve.

[QUOTE="-TheSecondSign-"]...George Carlin reference?foxhound_fox

He once said that he worships the sun, as he can see it and knows with his own eyes that it is there.

I don't agree with everything Carlin ever said...but thats what he said, so yeah.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]I'm a pandeist. To me, it is the most logical belief one could have.BlueBirdTS

Isn't it possible that the universe simply always existed or that it sprang out of nothing?

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]I'm a pandeist. To me, it is the most logical belief one could have.Anamosa41

Isn't it possible that the universe simply always existed or that it sprang out of nothing?

IMO, the latter is impossible. Nothing can create something, if you get what I mean. Something has to exist to create, transform, or evolve.

People have trouble wrapping their heads around this. But while a singularity has no volume, it has infinite mass/density. It is not nothing.

I'm an atheist. I believe harm can come out of poorly guided theism. The central tenant of theism is wrong, but the morals that make them up could very well be right in some situations. It is too simple minded, but I don't like the idea that science should substitute morality.Genetic_Code

[QUOTE="Anamosa41"]

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

Isn't it possible that the universe simply always existed or that it sprang out of nothing?

FlyingArmbar

IMO, the latter is impossible. Nothing can create something, if you get what I mean. Something has to exist to create, transform, or evolve.

People have trouble wrapping their heads around this. But while a singularity has no volume, it has infinite mass/density. It is not nothing.

No offense, but that doesn't make any sense to me. I know it's a belief that is accepted by many, but it is just not logical. If a "singularity" has no valume, it cannot have mass nor density. If something has no valume it simplydoes notexist in thenatural cosmos nor can it randomly appear. The closest thing tothat thatis logical is a supernatural being creating an object of mass possessing volume andhaving previously not existed.

I think theism is just the ****.

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]I'm a pandeist. To me, it is the most logical belief one could have.-Sun_Tzu-

Isn't it possible that the universe simply always existed or that it sprang out of nothing?

How can the former be possible? The universe is always expanding and will eventually collapse in on itself; if the universe always existed then that defies every law of physics we know.

What is the "central tenant" of theism, and how is it too simple minded?-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

Isn't it possible that the universe simply always existed or that it sprang out of nothing?

Theokhoth

How can the former be possible? The universe is always expanding and will eventually collapse in on itself; if the universe always existed then that defies every law of physics we know.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] The former is most definitely a possibility, the latter - not so much.-Sun_Tzu-

How can the former be possible? The universe is always expanding and will eventually collapse in on itself; if the universe always existed then that defies every law of physics we know.

Bingo. That's what I was thinking. I'm not knowledgeable enough about this subject to support my ideas with evidence, so someone please correct me if this is a completely far-fetched notion.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]What is the "central tenant" of theism, and how is it too simple minded?Genetic_Code

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] The former is most definitely a possibility, the latter - not so much.-Sun_Tzu-

How can the former be possible? The universe is always expanding and will eventually collapse in on itself; if the universe always existed then that defies every law of physics we know.

I don't equate cyclical with eternal.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]What is the "central tenant" of theism, and how is it too simple minded?Genetic_Code

Wiser morality. . . .what a funny term.

[QUOTE="super_mario_128"]I'm an agnostic, though I like pantheism and solipsism, even though the latter is hard to swallow. I don't believe a belief in a God is necessarily a bad thing. It's simply an answer to the unanswerable question. I'm happy enough believing in an afterlife and a deity, and I certainly don't believe I'm 'simple minded'. Also, this thread will not end well.BlueBirdTS

I always had a problem with Descartes' "Cogito ergo sum" statement. How did he know consciousness isn't simply an illusion? How can one be so sure of one's existence?

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

[QUOTE="super_mario_128"]I'm an agnostic, though I like pantheism and solipsism, even though the latter is hard to swallow. I don't believe a belief in a God is necessarily a bad thing. It's simply an answer to the unanswerable question. I'm happy enough believing in an afterlife and a deity, and I certainly don't believe I'm 'simple minded'. Also, this thread will not end well.mutenpika

I always had a problem with Descartes' "Cogito ergo sum" statement. How did he know consciousness isn't simply an illusion? How can one be so sure of one's existence?

I'm not sure if I can answer that question myself. Consciousness on a basic level is quite simple: self-awareness. However, philosophically speaking it is far more complex than that. I wish I could answer this but I'm afraid I don't have a complete grasp on the idea of "consciousness" myself.

I'm not sure if I can answer that question myself. Consciousness on a basic level is quite simple: self-awareness. However, philosophically speaking it is far more complex than that. See this.

BlueBirdTS

Consciousness is fairly easy to explain. You asked how we can know if it's just an illusion. But the word "illusion" denotes that there is a reality. Consciousness could be an illusion, but that isn't what Descartes was trying to say; he did NOT say "I am aware of myself, therefore I exist," he said "I can think, therefore I exist." If everything is an illusion, then by definition there is a reality, and the fact that that can be recognised through thought is proof that I do exist, regardless of whether or not everything down to my own self-awareness is an illusion, because there has to be a "me" of some shape or form outside of the illusion in the first place.

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

I'm not sure if I can answer that question myself. Consciousness on a basic level is quite simple: self-awareness. However, philosophically speaking it is far more complex than that. See this.

Theokhoth

Consciousness is fairly easy to explain. You asked how we can know if it's just an illusion. But the word "illusion" denotes that there is a reality. Consciousness could be an illusion, but that isn't what Descartes was trying to say; he did NOT say "I am aware of myself, therefore I exist," he said "I can think, therefore I exist." If everything is an illusion, then by definition there is a reality, and the fact that that can be recognised through thought is proof that I do exist, regardless of whether or not everything down to my own self-awareness is an illusion, because there has to be a "me" of some shape or form outside of the illusion in the first place.

Perhaps. Meditate on this one I will.

I am curious to hear what everyone's oppinion on theism is. Are you a theist or atheist? Do you believe there is more harm that comes out of theism than good? Is it a belief that was good to have in the past, but now in the age of science is too simple minded? Now, I don't want this to get out of hand. Let's just share our oppinons and discuss them. Sure we can debate some ideas but just be polite and don't critisize.

Okay, so let's talk. :P

Anamosa41

I'm not sure if I can answer that question myself. Consciousness on a basic level is quite simple: self-awareness. However, philosophically speaking it is far more complex than that. I wish I could answer this but I'm afraid I don't have a complete grasp on the idea of "consciousness" myself.

BlueBirdTS

Consciousness is fairly easy to explain. You asked how we can know if it's just an illusion. But the word "illusion" denotes that there is a reality. Consciousness could be an illusion, but that isn't what Descartes was trying to say; he did NOT say "I am aware of myself, therefore I exist," he said "I can think, therefore I exist." If everything is an illusion, then by definition there is a reality, and the fact that that can be recognised through thought is proof that I do exist, regardless of whether or not everything down to my own self-awareness is an illusion, because there has to be a "me" of some shape or form outside of the illusion in the first place.Theokhoth

[QUOTE="FlyingArmbar"]

[QUOTE="Anamosa41"]

IMO, the latter is impossible. Nothing can create something, if you get what I mean. Something has to exist to create, transform, or evolve.

Anamosa41

People have trouble wrapping their heads around this. But while a singularity has no volume, it has infinite mass/density. It is not nothing.

No offense, but that doesn't make any sense to me. I know it's a belief that is accepted by many, but it is just not logical. If a "singularity" has no valume, it cannot have mass nor density. If something has no valume it simplydoes notexist in thenatural cosmos nor can it randomly appear. The closest thing tothat thatis logical is a supernatural being creating an object of mass possessing volume andhaving previously not existed.

It doesn't have to make sense to you, the universe is far from logical. You need mass to have energy, light has no mass but it has energy.

We know that you can't get to the end of the universe, because eventually you would just end up back where you started. Humans just can't wrap their things around these things.

We believe that black holes (singularities), have infinite mass. It's difficult to imagine how their gravitational pull would be strong enough to capture light if this was not so.

If matter condenses upon itself until it's density is infinite (and it no longer posesses volume), does it simply cease to exist?

It doesn't have to make sense to you, the universe is far from logical. You need mass to have energy, light has no mass but it has energy.

We know that you can't get to the end of the universe, because eventually you would just end up back where you started. Humans just can't wrap their things around these things.

We believe that black holes (singularities), have infinite mass. It's difficult to imagine how their gravitational pull would be strong enough to capture light if this was not so.

If matter condenses upon itself until it's density is infinite (and it no longer posesses volume), does it simply cease to exist?

FlyingArmbar

[QUOTE="FlyingArmbar"]

It doesn't have to make sense to you, the universe is far from logical. You need mass to have energy, light has no mass but it has energy.

We know that you can't get to the end of the universe, because eventually you would just end up back where you started. Humans just can't wrap their things around these things.

We believe that black holes (singularities), have infinite mass. It's difficult to imagine how their gravitational pull would be strong enough to capture light if this was not so.

If matter condenses upon itself until it's density is infinite (and it no longer posesses volume), does it simply cease to exist?

mutenpika

Thanks for correcting me. I read your message and said to myself "what?" because I thought that I had typed density.

Thanks for correcting me. I read your message and said to myself "what?" because I thought that I had typed density.

FlyingArmbar