Top Saudi Islamic Cleric orders a fatwa on Mickey Mouse.

What so every Muslim out there are going to agree with this guy? I don't believe there's anything in the Qur'an that states that every Muslim must concur with each other on every subject. Especially Mickey Mouse or indeed a cheap knock off.

Fact of the matter is that Islam is a religion of peace. What some high up guy says does not represent what every Muslim out there believes.

Hopefully Aladdin doesn't suicide bomb him.

Fact of the matter is that Islam is a religion of peace. What some high up guy says does not represent what every Muslim out there believes.ganon92

I don't believe there's anything in the Qur'an that states that every Muslim must concur with each other on every subject. Especially Mickey Mouse or indeed a cheap knock off.ganon92

is this a cartoon character or a puppet? Mohammed forbade art depicting living creatures and cursed those who make it.

Fact of the matter is that Islam is a religion of peace.

ganon92

Said who? Where does this "fact" come from?

A fatwa only has as much significance as how many people support it. Technically though, fatwas have no religious significance in Islam, since it's not mentioned in the Quran.

Also, before we get all excited over this (talking to myself too), link?

Also, before we get all excited over this (talking to myself too), link?

The_Ish

It was on the news quite a bit yesterday. You can find a bunch of articles by Googling it.

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272622793.shtml

Mickey NOOOO! hahaha, so dumb.

A fatwa only has as much significance as how many people support it. Technically though, fatwas have no religious significance in Islam, since it's not mentioned in the Quran.

The_Ish

Fatwas are applications of teachings of the Prophet to everyday life. For a religious Muslim, they provide invaluable guidance. Those who study Islam explain how to apply it, what is forbidden and permissible, and how to confront the challenges of the modern world when there are no teachings on it specifically because those things didn't exist when Mohammed lived. For example, are movies permissible? Computers? Taking a student loan? Fatwas provide instruction on these issues.

Here's a link for the story. I'll see if I can find a link to the actual TV broadcast.

Idiots with the fundamentalist views make Islam look bad.

Congrats on your generalization of the whole Muslim world.

Fatwas are applications of teachings of the Prophet to everyday life. For a religious Muslim, they provide invaluable guidance. Those who study Islam explain how to apply it, what is forbidden and permissible, and how to confront the challenges of the modern world when there are no teachings on it specifically because those things didn't exist when Mohammed lived. For example, are movies permissible? Computers? Taking a student loan? Fatwas provide instruction on these issues.

Here's a link for the story. I'll see if I can find a link to the actual TV broadcast.

clicketyclick

I already know what they are. By religious signficance, I meant whether or not they are the final word. They aren't... their "religious validity" really only depends on how many people support it.

*burns his halloween costume*

:|

Didn't you know, mice are one of the pawns of Satan. Epak_

That's right :lol: Also this one's quite hilarious Nothing makes Satan happier than the 'Bikini' Olympics. Gotta say, I love Satan's taste ;)

Here we go.

Video clip of Sheikh Muhammad Munajid interview, concluding that "according to Islamic law, Mickey Mouse should be killed in all cases."

But apparently, our good friends the Saudis have been quite active recently:

News item on Sheikh Saleh al-Lohaidan, who is the head of Sharia courts there, saying that Arab TV producers who air soap operas, dramas, and comedies should face the death penalty for "indecency and vulgarity" and distracting Muslims from focus on Allah during Ramadan.

News item on Sheikh Salah Al-Fawzan, member of the High Judicial Council there, calling for the deaths of astrologers because they "practice magic" and according to islam, this is "a crime whose perpetrators must be put to death by the sword {and} it is forbidden to pray over their bodies."

^^ Again, those fundamentalist idiots ruin the image of Islam.Haziqonfire

What do you assert is incorrect from what the Sheikh said about mice? He is very learned. I assume you must have some reason to say he's an idiot and he's wrong about Islam.

^^ Again, those fundamentalist idiots ruin the image of Islam.Haziqonfire

But an enormous portion of the Islamic world follow them, and a huge amount of the most famous and "well respected" Muslim religious leaders have the same fundamentalist attitudes.

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]^^ Again, those fundamentalist idiots ruin the image of Islam.clicketyclick

What do you assert is incorrect from what the Sheikh said about mice? He is very learned. I assume you must have some reason to say he's an idiot and he's wrong about Islam.

Though I really don't care, I'm not religious -- Most of what I've learned from the Imaams and my parents are peaceful things.

*shrug* -- I still think him, the osama bin ladens, 'terrorists' ruin the image of the average Muslim. Most of the Muslim people I know are peaceful and do not say the same things as these people.

I'm a Muslim myself -- Most of the Imaam's dont preach the same things said by that guy.

Though I really don't care, I'm not religious -- Most of what I've learned from the Imaams and my parents are peaceful things.

*shrug* -- I still think him, the osama bin ladens, 'terrorists' ruin the image of the average Muslim. Most of the Muslim people I know are peaceful and do not say the same things as these people.

Haziqonfire

Do you have evidence that he is wrong? you accused him of being an idiot and ruining the image of Islam. Surely you have evidence, being a Muslim yourself, that he is wrong in his assertions. Otherwise, the only reason your imam does not say this is that he a) doesn't know and isn't as knowledgeable as this Sheikh or b) is not teaching you every aspect of Islam. You cannot conclude that, just because your imam does not mention it, it must be false.

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"]

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]^^ Again, those fundamentalist idiots ruin the image of Islam.Haziqonfire

What do you assert is incorrect from what the Sheikh said about mice? He is very learned. I assume you must have some reason to say he's an idiot and he's wrong about Islam.

Though I really don't care, I'm not religious -- Most of what I've learned from the Imaams and my parents are peaceful things.

*shrug* -- I still think him, the osama bin ladens, 'terrorists' ruin the image of the average Muslim. Most of the Muslim people I know are peaceful and do not say the same things as these people.

I'm assuming you're an American? Islam as it is practiced in the US is a vastly different thing than Islam as it is practiced in the poorest portions of the Middle East.

I'm assuming you're an American? Islam as it is practiced in the US is a vastly different thing than Islam as it is practiced in the poorest portions of the Middle East.

RuprechtMonkey

Saudi Arabia isn't exactly poor. :lol:

I said nothing about the Saudi's, there are huge swathes or Iran, Afghan, and Iraq that are intensely poverty stricken and intensely religious. Afghanistan is one the the poorest, least developed countries in the world and is the most adherent to the fundamentalist Islamic ideology. What does that tell you?

When you have very little to live for religion is extremely appealing.

It tells me that those with money can afford to travel.

The vast majority of Muslims in the US aren't extremists. That's not the case for the poorer portions of the Middle East, the same holds true for the Muslim portions of Africa.

I'm a Muslim myself -- Most of the Imaam's dont preach the same things said by that guy.

Though I really don't care, I'm not religious -- Most of what I've learned from the Imaams and my parents are peaceful things.

*shrug* -- I still think him, the osama bin ladens, 'terrorists' ruin the image of the average Muslim. Most of the Muslim people I know are peaceful and do not say the same things as these people.

Haziqonfire

oh yeah the standard "but but islam is about peace" **** Sorry but curently it is far far from a religion of peace and does bring nothing but truble with it. The crime rates in most EU countrys have gone at the same rate as the number of muslim immigrants has. coincidence? yeah right. :roll: people getting murdered beacose they expose the extremist views of islam, imams preaching hate against the country they live in, religion of peace my ass. Just look at the protest beacose of cartoon with muslims screaming to kill every european

and the avarage muslim either doesn't care or supports all of this, sure there might be good muslims that integrated good into the society, but most, especialy the jung, are extremist. all this things happening in the eu is just a ticking time bomb, if something similar to 9/11 happens in the eu, boy I don't want to be a muslim in europe at that point.

call me racist I don't care, if not wanting the culture and laws of my country getting destroyed means being a racist, then so be it.

he works for disney and is trying to protect thier copyrights.

on a side note.. i hear don the bbc that there was a cleric in sa who said it would be perfectly acceptable to kill the producers of a tv show they found offensive if he did not agree to take it off the air...

Muslim isn't a race.

It tells me that those with money can afford to travel.

The vast majority of Muslims in the US aren't extremists. That's not the case for the poorer portions of the Middle East, the same holds true for the Muslim portions of Africa.

RuprechtMonkey

You are making assumptions. I think an actual poll on the matter would surprise you:

Every politician has a theory: Radicals are religious fundamentalists. They are poor. They are full of hopelessness and hate. But those theories are wrong ...

It's no secret that many in the Muslim world suffer from crippling poverty and lack of education. But are radicals any poorer than their fellow Muslims? We found the opposite: There is indeed a key difference between radicals and moderates when it comes to income and education, but it is the radicals who earn more and who stay in school longer.

Whenever a suicide bomber completes a deadly mission, the act is often attributed to hopelessness — the inability to find a job, earn a living, or support a family. But the politically radical are not more "hopeless" than the mainstream. More radicals expressed satisfaction with their financial situation and quality of life than their moderate counterparts, and a majority of them expected to be better off in the years to come.(Source)Gallup Report

A cartoon mouse.....:? Seems there should be more important things for a religiious figure to worry about...like peace and love and getting along.LJS9502_basic

to hell with that hippy crap. its time to build a better cartoon mouse trap.

*grabs pitchfork despite its obvious uselessness in the situation*

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]

I'm a Muslim myself -- Most of the Imaam's dont preach the same things said by that guy.

Though I really don't care, I'm not religious -- Most of what I've learned from the Imaams and my parents are peaceful things.

*shrug* -- I still think him, the osama bin ladens, 'terrorists' ruin the image of the average Muslim. Most of the Muslim people I know are peaceful and do not say the same things as these people.

clicketyclick

Do you have evidence that he is wrong? you accused him of being an idiot and ruining the image of Islam. Surely you have evidence, being a Muslim yourself, that he is wrong in his assertions. Otherwise, the only reason your imam does not say this is that he a) doesn't know and isn't as knowledgeable as this Sheikh or b) is not teaching you every aspect of Islam. You cannot conclude that, just because your imam does not mention it, it must be false.

Alright, it seems that Haziq doesn't intend to answer. So I'll respond.

What the Sheikh Muhammad Al-Munajid said is true. Here is a comparison.

Muhammad Al-Munajid (Sheikh): "It says that mice set fire to the house, and are steered by Satan. The mouse is one of Satan's soldiers and is steered by him."

Muhammad (Prophet): "Lock the door, tie the waterskin, turn the vessel over or cover it, and put out the lamp. Shaytan does not open a locked door or untie a tied knot, or uncover a vessel. A mouse may set fire to people's houses about them." (Malik's Muwatta B49N49.10.21)

Muhammad (Prophet): "Cover vessels, waterskins, close the doors and extinguish the lamps, for the Satan does not loosen the waterskin, does not open the door and does not uncover the vessels. And if one amongst you fails to find (something) to cover it well, he should cover it by placing (a piece of) wood across it ...The mouse may set the house on fire over its inhabitants." (Sahih Muslim B23N4994)

~~~

Muhammad Al-Munajid (Sheikh): "If a mouse falls into a pot of food – if the food is solid, you should chuck out the mouse and the food touching it, and if it is liquid – you should chuck out the whole thing. Because the mouse is i-m-p-u-r-e!"

Muhammad (Prophet): "When a mouse falls into clarified butter, if it is solid, throw the mouse and what is around it away, but if it is in a liquid state, do not go near it." (Sunan Abu Dawud B27N3833)

Muhammad (Prophet): "Throw away the mouse and the portion of butter-fat around it, and eat the rest." (Sahih Bukhari V7B67N448 )

(Also see V1B4N236, V1B4N237, V7B67N446, and V7B67N447 in Sahih Bukhari.)

~~~

Muhammad Al-Munajid (Sheikh): "it is permissible to kill it (the mouse) in all cases."

Muhammad (Prophet): "It is not sinful (of a Muhrim) to kill five kinds of animals, namely: the crow, the kite, the mouse, the scorpion and the rabid dog." (Sahih Bukhari V3B29N54)

(Also see Sahih Bukhari V3B29N55, which calls them "harmful". Malik's Muwatta B20N20.26.89, B20N20.26.90, and B20N20.26.91 describe them as "trespassers" and say it is even permissible to kill them in Ihram (a religious state when you are not supposed to kill other animals.) It also says "wild dogs" can be killed. The Prophet later ordered all dogs to be killed and said that black dogs are the Devil. That's beside the point, but just goes to show that these animals can be killed whenever and were even ordered to be killed.)

Nothing the Sheikh said is incorrect.

Hopefully Aladdin doesn't suicide bomb him.

RuprechtMonkey

how do you figure? You have to have religious education to get the title of Sheikh there you know.clicketyclick

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]

I'm a Muslim myself -- Most of the Imaam's dont preach the same things said by that guy.

Though I really don't care, I'm not religious -- Most of what I've learned from the Imaams and my parents are peaceful things.

*shrug* -- I still think him, the osama bin ladens, 'terrorists' ruin the image of the average Muslim. Most of the Muslim people I know are peaceful and do not say the same things as these people.

clicketyclick

Do you have evidence that he is wrong? you accused him of being an idiot and ruining the image of Islam. Surely you have evidence, being a Muslim yourself, that he is wrong in his assertions. Otherwise, the only reason your imam does not say this is that he a) doesn't know and isn't as knowledgeable as this Sheikh or b) is not teaching you every aspect of Islam. You cannot conclude that, just because your imam does not mention it, it must be false.

Alright, it seems that Haziq doesn't intend to answer. So I'll respond.

What the Sheikh Muhammad Al-Munajid said is true. Here is a comparison.

Muhammad Al-Munajid (Sheikh): "It says that mice set fire to the house, and are steered by Satan. The mouse is one of Satan's soldiers and is steered by him."

Muhammad (Prophet): "Lock the door, tie the waterskin, turn the vessel over or cover it, and put out the lamp. Shaytan does not open a locked door or untie a tied knot, or uncover a vessel. A mouse may set fire to people's houses about them." (Malik's Muwatta B49N49.10.21)

Muhammad (Prophet): "Cover vessels, waterskins, close the doors and extinguish the lamps, for the Satan does not loosen the waterskin, does not open the door and does not uncover the vessels. And if one amongst you fails to find (something) to cover it well, he should cover it by placing (a piece of) wood across it ...The mouse may set the house on fire over its inhabitants." (Sahih Muslim B23N4994)

~~~

Muhammad Al-Munajid (Sheikh): "If a mouse falls into a pot of food – if the food is solid, you should chuck out the mouse and the food touching it, and if it is liquid – you should chuck out the whole thing. Because the mouse is i-m-p-u-r-e!"

Muhammad (Prophet): "When a mouse falls into clarified butter, if it is solid, throw the mouse and what is around it away, but if it is in a liquid state, do not go near it." (Sunan Abu Dawud B27N3833)

Muhammad (Prophet): "Throw away the mouse and the portion of butter-fat around it, and eat the rest." (Sahih Bukhari V7B67N448 )

(Also see V1B4N236, V1B4N237, V7B67N446, and V7B67N447 in Sahih Bukhari.)

~~~

Muhammad Al-Munajid (Sheikh): "it is permissible to kill it (the mouse) in all cases."

Muhammad (Prophet): "It is not sinful (of a Muhrim) to kill five kinds of animals, namely: the crow, the kite, the mouse, the scorpion and the rabid dog." (Sahih Bukhari V3B29N54)

(Also see Sahih Bukhari V3B29N55, which calls them "harmful". Malik's Muwatta B20N20.26.89, B20N20.26.90, and B20N20.26.91 describe them as "trespassers" and say it is even permissible to kill them in Ihram (a religious state when you are not supposed to kill other animals.) It also says "wild dogs" can be killed. The Prophet later ordered all dogs to be killed and said that black dogs are the Devil. That's beside the point, but just goes to show that these animals can be killed whenever and were even ordered to be killed.)

Nothing the Sheikh said is incorrect.

[QUOTE="Haziqonfire"]

I'm a Muslim myself -- Most of the Imaam's dont preach the same things said by that guy.

Though I really don't care, I'm not religious -- Most of what I've learned from the Imaams and my parents are peaceful things.

*shrug* -- I still think him, the osama bin ladens, 'terrorists' ruin the image of the average Muslim. Most of the Muslim people I know are peaceful and do not say the same things as these people.

Enosh88

oh yeah the standard "but but islam is about peace" **** Sorry but curently it is far far from a religion of peace and does bring nothing but truble with it. The crime rates in most EU countrys have gone at the same rate as the number of muslim immigrants has. coincidence? yeah right. :roll: people getting murdered beacose they expose the extremist views of islam, imams preaching hate against the country they live in, religion of peace my ass. Just look at the protest beacose of cartoon with muslims screaming to kill every european

and the avarage muslim either doesn't care or supports all of this, sure there might be good muslims that integrated good into the society, but most, especialy the jung, are extremist. all this things happening in the eu is just a ticking time bomb, if something similar to 9/11 happens in the eu, boy I don't want to be a muslim in europe at that point.

call me racist I don't care, if not wanting the culture and laws of my country getting destroyed means being a racist, then so be it.

But, who lets them "graduate" into a Sheikh? What if the person "graduating" them is also an extremist?

What did he say that was wrong? I went to great effort above your post to demonstrate that everything he said about Islam was true.

isn't there a difference between a real mouse and a cartoon one?

killtactics

His point was that "Mickey Mouse" and similar cartoons are making mice appear cute and funny to kids. Hell, even pet shops offer them as pets now. It endears a mouse to children, which is opposed to the teachings of the Prophet, who said that mice are corruptors, and are dangerous agents of Satan that can set fire to houses even. These cartoons are contrary to Islamic teachings.

Another difference is that any art depicting living creatures is expressly forbidden in Islam and its creators are cursed. So any sort of cartoon depicting them is contrary to Islamic teachings. That is why Islamic calligraphy and architecture are so developed: because art depicting living creatures is forbidden.

[QUOTE="remmbermytitans"][QUOTE="clicketyclick"]how do you figure? You have to have religious education to get the title of Sheikh there you know.clicketyclick

But, who lets them "graduate" into a Sheikh? What if the person "graduating" them is also an extremist?

What did he say that was wrong? I went to great effort above your post to demonstrate that everything he said about Islam was true.

I saw that, I know, but in general, isn't the problem extremism? I don't know much about Islam, so I was asking what prevents an extremist from "graduating" more extremists? Is there like a way to make sure they're preaching things that are in line with others? Or is it once you've "graduated" you're set for life?

[QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="remmbermytitans"][QUOTE="clicketyclick"]how do you figure? You have to have religious education to get the title of Sheikh there you know.remmbermytitans

But, who lets them "graduate" into a Sheikh? What if the person "graduating" them is also an extremist?

What did he say that was wrong? I went to great effort above your post to demonstrate that everything he said about Islam was true.

I saw that, I know, but in general, isn't the problem extremism? I don't know much about Islam, so I was asking what prevents an extremist from "graduating" more extremists? Is there like a way to make sure they're preaching things that are in line with others? Or is it once you've "graduated" you're set for life?

I guess the question is what you consider "extremism". For example, the Prophet commanded that apostates should be killed. You may consider it extreme when a Muslim you meet or a Sheikh you hear says that people who leave Islam ought to be killed, but that is what the Prophet said.

[QUOTE="remmbermytitans"][QUOTE="clicketyclick"][QUOTE="remmbermytitans"][QUOTE="clicketyclick"]how do you figure? You have to have religious education to get the title of Sheikh there you know.clicketyclick

But, who lets them "graduate" into a Sheikh? What if the person "graduating" them is also an extremist?

What did he say that was wrong? I went to great effort above your post to demonstrate that everything he said about Islam was true.

I saw that, I know, but in general, isn't the problem extremism? I don't know much about Islam, so I was asking what prevents an extremist from "graduating" more extremists? Is there like a way to make sure they're preaching things that are in line with others? Or is it once you've "graduated" you're set for life?

I guess the question is what you consider "extremism". For example, the Prophet commanded that apostates should be killed. You may consider it extreme when a Muslim you meet or a Sheikh you hear says that people who leave Islam ought to be killed, but that is what the Prophet said.

Hmm, I first thought they meant the Palestinian version of Mickey Mouse on Hamas TV, that wouldn't have surprised me at all...Hungry_bunny

Really? Saudi Arabia would never condemn that. Saudi Arabia's education system for kids is not much better than Hamas'.

Really? Saudi Arabia would never condemn that. Saudi Arabia's education system for kids is not much better than Hamas'.

clicketyclick

I believe that all religions are peaceful by natureremmbermytitans

That is your mistake. It is an assumption. You should not generalise religions and should look at each individually. For example, Scientology has gained status as a "religion" in many places and it won't be long before it is widely considered a religion. Does this change in legal status automatically mean that it is peaceful? Does it negate the things the Church of Scientology has done and the scam-like set up it has, requiring you to pay money to see the "holy texts"?

To answer your question: just as you cannot revoke the status of secular scholars who study and teach, you cannot revoke the status of a Sheikh (but they can be denied the status in the first place if they don't have the qualifications from a recognised school of Islamic jurisprudence.) Of course, religious leaders who are higher up in the ranks can argue against a Sheikh's teachings. And if a Sheikh's teachings deviate significantly from Islam, he could be killed for apostasy, teaching disbelief, introducing falsehood into the Qur'an etc. Not sure how frequently that happens though.