Trying to save Haiti - A waste of time

Honestly does anyone believe that Haiti will be saved? This country was on it's very last leg even before the earthquake.

Now I truly believe that the country is beyond help. They have no food, no shelter, and basically, no government. How they will ever manage to rebuild their country is completely beyond me. Once the Haiti donation fad passes, they will go right back to having no money, no help, and no hope of ever having anything close to a decent country.

Thoughts?

Pretty sure if you were in their position you wouldnt think it was a waste of time that people from other countries were helping you.

Honestly does anyone believe that Haiti will be saved? This country was on it's very last leg even before the earthquake.

Now I truly believe that the country is beyond help. They have no food, no shelter, and basically, no government. How they will ever manage to rebuild their country is completely beyond me. Once the Haiti donation fad passes, they will go right back to having no money, no help, and no hope of ever having anything close to a decent country.

Thoughts?

sbtim

Um there's been lots of aid going into Haiti for years before this Earthquake. So yes, I believe that Haiti has a strong chance of being saved. There's been cases of looting and fighting, but overall considering what all those people have gone through, they're doing a excellent job of not letting their society crumble into barbarism. They can rebuild, but they can't do it without aid from the rest of the world. This horrific disaster has given the Haitian people an opportunity to create the change in their nation and with our help, I believe we can get them on the right path torecovery. It's going to take decades, billions in aid, and lots of people volunteering to help them, but it can be done.

Stop thinking so damn negatively. Maybe we can get them back on one leg again. :P

Pretty sure if you were in their position you wouldnt think it was a waste of time that people from other countries were helping you.

1hit

But what do they think will happen a year from now or so? Are they just going to become a welfare country, living off of donations? I don't see how they'll ever become self sufficient.

[QUOTE="1hit"]

Pretty sure if you were in their position you wouldnt think it was a waste of time that people from other countries were helping you.

sbtim

But what do they think will happen a year from now or so? Are they just going to become a welfare country, living off of donations? I don't see how they'll ever become self sufficient.

[QUOTE="1hit"]

Pretty sure if you were in their position you wouldnt think it was a waste of time that people from other countries were helping you.

sbtim

But what do they think will happen a year from now or so? Are they just going to become a welfare country, living off of donations? I don't see how they'll ever become self sufficient.

They've been a welfare contry living off of donations for YEARS now, it's nothing new because of this Earthquake. You're saying since their society is so messed up now, we should just leave them to crumble into nothing because it'd be a waste of time to try and help them? They wont become self sufficient until we've helped them rebuild their nation and reorganize their government. There is lots of potential for economic growth in Haiti, but it'll just take lots of aid and assistance. We as the world's supposed great superpower has a duty to help these people as much as we can in whatever ways we can.

You'll see! It'll be back in no t-time... :cry:

Dont really care about Haiti, too far away for me to care.

[QUOTE="sbtim"]

[QUOTE="1hit"]

Pretty sure if you were in their position you wouldnt think it was a waste of time that people from other countries were helping you.

MystikFollower

But what do they think will happen a year from now or so? Are they just going to become a welfare country, living off of donations? I don't see how they'll ever become self sufficient.

They've been a welfare contry living off of donations for YEARS now, it's nothing new because of this Earthquake. You're saying since their society is so messed up now, we should just leave them to crumble into nothing because it'd be a waste of time to try and help them? They wont become self sufficient until we've helped them rebuild their nation and reorganize their government. There is lots of potential for economic growth in Haiti, but it'll just take lots of aid and assistance. We as the world's supposed great superpower has a duty to help these people as much as we can in whatever ways we can.

That may be true if we didn't have so, so very many problems with our own country right now. We can't even fix our own country, what makes us think we can fix Haiti? Not to mention no amount of money we invest in them will ever make it's way back to us.

Also, why exactly is it our duty to fix every country? We have our own people living in poverty, in our own country. Shouldn't we take care of that first?

[QUOTE="1hit"]

Pretty sure if you were in their position you wouldnt think it was a waste of time that people from other countries were helping you.

sbtim

But what do they think will happen a year from now or so? Are they just going to become a welfare country, living off of donations? I don't see how they'll ever become self sufficient.

I dont think a country can be realistically "fixed" in one year after an earthquake of that mangnitude. It will take a couple of years for rebuilding Hati and even longer for the country to recover economically.

You're absolutely right. The whole problem is people use this event as a feel good execuse to be involved.. while the rest of the time we ignore the worlds problems and say it's none of our business.. what a joke. I'm all for helping people in need.. but if were going to do that lets at least be consistent about that. Right now we'll throw wads of money at Haiti.. then forget about it.. and nothing good will happen in haiti after.. they'll still have gangs running the government and corruption. while relying on archaic structure of energy management and agriculture to sustain life.EMOEVOLUTION

That is a very sad truth unfortunately. After a month or so, once all the news media has milked all the stories out of Haiti, they'll pack it up and come back here and everyone will probably just forget about them and carry on their own busy lives. In that respect I guess helping them is a waste of time, but like someone else said, the money being sent their now and the aid going there now is meant to save lives that have been put in danger because of this disaster. If only we could keep this mindset all the time, then maybe the world wouldn't be in such bad shape, but it does take a disaster for people to ever see whats really going on and then change it.

I do hold out hope still though that our government will keep aiding Haiti in rebuilding efforts and then help them with structuring their government. I know people hate the "nation building" phrase thrown around, but it's really what's going to be needed down there.

Yes, which is exactly why we should build a giant amusement park there. After all, it would be great for tourism and we could make lots of money! Oh but let's hope that there isn't anymore earthquakes ever again cause it could be bad for the roller coasters.

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]You're absolutely right. The whole problem is people use this event as a feel good execuse to be involved.. while the rest of the time we ignore the worlds problems and say it's none of our business.. what a joke. I'm all for helping people in need.. but if were going to do that lets at least be consistent about that. Right now we'll throw wads of money at Haiti.. then forget about it.. and nothing good will happen in haiti after.. they'll still have gangs running the government and corruption. while relying on archaic structure of energy management and agriculture to sustain life.MystikFollower

That is a very sad truth unfortunately. After a month or so, once all the news media has milked all the stories out of Haiti, they'll pack it up and come back here and everyone will probably just forget about them and carry on their own busy lives. In that respect I guess helping them is a waste of time, but like someone else said, the money being sent their now and the aid going there now is meant to save lives that have been put in danger because of this disaster. If only we could keep this mindset all the time, then maybe the world wouldn't be in such bad shape, but it does take a disaster for people to ever see whats really going on and then change it.

I do hold out hope still though that our government will keep aiding Haiti in rebuilding efforts and then help them with structuring their government. I know people hate the "nation building" phrase thrown around, but it's really what's going to be needed down there.

But can you really blame Americans for being concerned with their own lives? A lot of people are struggling right now. It's not easy to donate when you don't have a job.

You're absolutely right. The whole problem is people use this event as a feel good execuse to be involved.. while the rest of the time we ignore the worlds problems and say it's none of our business.. what a joke. I'm all for helping people in need.. but if were going to do that lets at least be consistent about that. Right now we'll throw wads of money at Haiti.. then forget about it.. and nothing good will happen in haiti after.. they'll still have gangs running the government and corruption. while relying on archaic structure of energy management and agriculture to sustain life.EMOEVOLUTION

have you seen those two canadians bring back two young haitians to their country, canada? that got front page here.

i am surprised. i am surprised that after the immediate aftermath all those politicians got involved like they did in some way, shape or form.

[QUOTE="MystikFollower"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]You're absolutely right. The whole problem is people use this event as a feel good execuse to be involved.. while the rest of the time we ignore the worlds problems and say it's none of our business.. what a joke. I'm all for helping people in need.. but if were going to do that lets at least be consistent about that. Right now we'll throw wads of money at Haiti.. then forget about it.. and nothing good will happen in haiti after.. they'll still have gangs running the government and corruption. while relying on archaic structure of energy management and agriculture to sustain life.sbtim

That is a very sad truth unfortunately. After a month or so, once all the news media has milked all the stories out of Haiti, they'll pack it up and come back here and everyone will probably just forget about them and carry on their own busy lives. In that respect I guess helping them is a waste of time, but like someone else said, the money being sent their now and the aid going there now is meant to save lives that have been put in danger because of this disaster. If only we could keep this mindset all the time, then maybe the world wouldn't be in such bad shape, but it does take a disaster for people to ever see whats really going on and then change it.

I do hold out hope still though that our government will keep aiding Haiti in rebuilding efforts and then help them with structuring their government. I know people hate the "nation building" phrase thrown around, but it's really what's going to be needed down there.

But can you really blame Americans for being concerned with their own lives? A lot of people are struggling right now. It's not easy to donate when you don't have a job.

Then dont donate if you cant afford to. No one is asking them to donate if the donators themselves are struggling.

Pretty sure when New Orleans went to hell during the hurricane, they appreciated the hundreds of millions of dollars and supplies in foreign aid from Canada and the other 70 countries. Easy to be critical when you're on the giving end, though, isn't it?F1_2004

I'm sure they did, but New Orleans is still a disgusting cesspool, rife with crime. And that's a city in our own country.

Now imagine how bad Haiti is going to be once George Clooney stops asking for donations on TV.

[QUOTE="1hit"]

Pretty sure if you were in their position you wouldnt think it was a waste of time that people from other countries were helping you.

sbtim

But what do they think will happen a year from now or so? Are they just going to become a welfare country, living off of donations? I don't see how they'll ever become self sufficient.

[QUOTE="sbtim"]

[QUOTE="1hit"]

Pretty sure if you were in their position you wouldnt think it was a waste of time that people from other countries were helping you.

1hit

But what do they think will happen a year from now or so? Are they just going to become a welfare country, living off of donations? I don't see how they'll ever become self sufficient.

I dont think a country can be realistically "fixed" in one year after an earthquake of that mangnitude. It will take a couple of years for rebuilding Hati and even longer for the country to recover economically.

satan, god or haarp (say what?) must have done haiti somewhat of a favour then. if the rebuilding of that country will be a proper job above the standard haiti was before the earthquake, then good on them.

do not expect a glistening technologic utopia, though.

[QUOTE="F1_2004"]Pretty sure when New Orleans went to hell during the hurricane, they appreciated the hundreds of millions of dollars and supplies in foreign aid from Canada and the other 70 countries. Easy to be critical when you're on the giving end, though, isn't it?sbtim

I'm sure they did, but New Orleans is still a disgusting cesspool, rife with crime. And that's a city in our own country.

Now imagine how bad Haiti is going to be once George Clooney stops asking for donations on TV.

They won't make it very far with their corrupt government. What are they going to do about that? Overthrow it?

[QUOTE="MystikFollower"]

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]You're absolutely right. The whole problem is people use this event as a feel good execuse to be involved.. while the rest of the time we ignore the worlds problems and say it's none of our business.. what a joke. I'm all for helping people in need.. but if were going to do that lets at least be consistent about that. Right now we'll throw wads of money at Haiti.. then forget about it.. and nothing good will happen in haiti after.. they'll still have gangs running the government and corruption. while relying on archaic structure of energy management and agriculture to sustain life.sbtim

That is a very sad truth unfortunately. After a month or so, once all the news media has milked all the stories out of Haiti, they'll pack it up and come back here and everyone will probably just forget about them and carry on their own busy lives. In that respect I guess helping them is a waste of time, but like someone else said, the money being sent their now and the aid going there now is meant to save lives that have been put in danger because of this disaster. If only we could keep this mindset all the time, then maybe the world wouldn't be in such bad shape, but it does take a disaster for people to ever see whats really going on and then change it.

I do hold out hope still though that our government will keep aiding Haiti in rebuilding efforts and then help them with structuring their government. I know people hate the "nation building" phrase thrown around, but it's really what's going to be needed down there.

But can you really blame Americans for being concerned with their own lives? A lot of people are struggling right now. It's not easy to donate when you don't have a job.

That's true, but still. Americans have been caught up in their own lives regardless of the state of our economy. When it was thriving and the unemployment rate was at an all time low, did we do anymore to help other nations? I'm certainly not saying that America needs to step in to every poor nation on the planet and provide all the help it can. That would surely bankrupt us much quicker than anything else. But we do have a certain responsibility as a world super power and the example of free democracy (at least the best example to date) to help nations that are in need of immidiate assistance.

It was living beyond our means as Americans that has landed us in the current economic crisis were in, so yes I can blame Americans for being concerned with their own lives. We as a people got ourselves into this mess, not any single political leader or official.

Nothing however is going to change until the consciousness of this world starts to shift. People need to stop thinking in such a "out for myself" way. If everyone took care of everyone else then there'd be no problems cause everyone would be taken care of. Think of it as one huge circle. One person helping another, helping another, ect. With everyone taking the focus of need off themselves and focusing on just helping others, that would almost instantly change our society's situation. The other big change that needs to happen is this idea of "not enoughness" that EVERY single person on this planet seems to have.

That idea of not enough is what creates almost all our conflict, war, hate, intolerance, self centerdness, and refusal to help those in need. If everyone didn't worry so much about having enough, they'd never have to hurt others and take what they want.

Now the one reason I say saving and helping Haiti is NOTa waste of time is because there are human beings down there, just like you or me, that are starving to death and dying very preventable deaths.

You're absolutely right. The whole problem is people use this event as a feel good execuse to be involved.. while the rest of the time we ignore the worlds problems and say it's none of our business.. what a joke. I'm all for helping people in need.. but if were going to do that lets at least be consistent about that. Right now we'll throw wads of money at Haiti.. then forget about it.. and nothing good will happen in haiti after.. they'll still have gangs running the government and corruption. while relying on archaic structure of energy management and agriculture to sustain life.EMOEVOLUTION

They won't make it very far with their corrupt government. What are they going to do about that? Overthrow it?

sbtim

[QUOTE="sbtim"]

They won't make it very far with their corrupt government. What are they going to do about that? Overthrow it?

RiseAgainst12

And do you think they're really capable of sorting it out on their own?

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]You're absolutely right. The whole problem is people use this event as a feel good execuse to be involved.. while the rest of the time we ignore the worlds problems and say it's none of our business.. what a joke. I'm all for helping people in need.. but if were going to do that lets at least be consistent about that. Right now we'll throw wads of money at Haiti.. then forget about it.. and nothing good will happen in haiti after.. they'll still have gangs running the government and corruption. while relying on archaic structure of energy management and agriculture to sustain life.mattbbpl

[QUOTE="RiseAgainst12"][QUOTE="sbtim"]

They won't make it very far with their corrupt government. What are they going to do about that? Overthrow it?

sbtim

And do you think they're really capable of sorting it out on their own?

and it's ultimately ineffective.. and creates no sort of social change. But only contributes to further problems.

Pretty much. This is why I don't donate. Nothing ever changes. Some countries and people are beyond help. Haiti is one of them.

I would bet every dollar I have that Haiti never recovers from this and spends the rest of it's existence as one of the worst countries in the world.

Maybe France should be pushed to recompense the Haitians for their woes and to pull them out of the hole they nudged them into in the first place.

[QUOTE="mattbbpl"][QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"]You're absolutely right. The whole problem is people use this event as a feel good execuse to be involved.. while the rest of the time we ignore the worlds problems and say it's none of our business.. what a joke. I'm all for helping people in need.. but if were going to do that lets at least be consistent about that. Right now we'll throw wads of money at Haiti.. then forget about it.. and nothing good will happen in haiti after.. they'll still have gangs running the government and corruption. while relying on archaic structure of energy management and agriculture to sustain life.EMOEVOLUTION

Stop thinking so damn negatively. Maybe we can get them back on one leg again. :P

RobboElRobbo

I agree with this. Who knows, we may even be able to get them back on two legs!(Not Really) :o

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"] and it's ultimately ineffective.. and creates no sort of social change. But only contributes to further problems.RiseAgainst12

I don't think they realise exactly what the consequences would be if the world all of the sudden quit donating to places like Haiti.... Sure there are thousands of deaths every day due to starvation, but without donation that number would surely skyrocket into the millions.

I think all of this reasoning is just an effort to justify their selfishness in not donating anything to Haiti. Regardless of corruption (which will always exist everywhere) and all that, there's no arguing that sending any amount of money saves lives, whereas donating nothing does nothing.F1_2004

Exactly. It may not have brought on the social change that many of these places need to rise above in order to grow and prosper, but there is absolutely no denying that it does good for the general populations there and it helps to save lives, even if it sometimes looks as if it's not helping.

So what are we saving their lives for? What future do they have?

It's like keeping someone on life support, but they're brain dead and will never recover. Yea, you can keep them "alive", but are they really living?

[QUOTE="sbtim"]

[QUOTE="1hit"]

Pretty sure if you were in their position you wouldnt think it was a waste of time that people from other countries were helping you.

PannicAtack

But what do they think will happen a year from now or so? Are they just going to become a welfare country, living off of donations? I don't see how they'll ever become self sufficient.

yea really dude

So what are we saving their lives for? What future do they have?

It's like keeping someone on life support, but they're brain dead and will never recover. Yea, you can keep them "alive", but are they really living?

sbtim

It is late and i can't be bothered going on all night so i leave you with this.

[QUOTE="F1_2004"]Pretty sure when New Orleans went to hell during the hurricane, they appreciated the hundreds of millions of dollars and supplies in foreign aid from Canada and the other 70 countries. Easy to be critical when you're on the giving end, though, isn't it?sbtim

I'm sure they did, but New Orleans is still a disgusting cesspool, rife with crime. And that's a city in our own country.

Now imagine how bad Haiti is going to be once George Clooney stops asking for donations on TV.

I appreciate it.

Honestly does anyone believe that Haiti will be saved? This country was on it's very last leg even before the earthquake.

Now I truly believe that the country is beyond help. They have no food, no shelter, and basically, no government. How they will ever manage to rebuild their country is completely beyond me. Once the Haiti donation fad passes, they will go right back to having no money, no help, and no hope of ever having anything close to a decent country.

Thoughts?

So what are we saving their lives for? What future do they have?

It's like keeping someone on life support, but they're brain dead and will never recover. Yea, you can keep them "alive", but are they really living?

sbtim

I'm not really grasping the OP's stance. Is he for isolationism (Why do we need to help anyone? We have our own problems!)? Does he have that sort of outlook that "people are investments. We shouldn't invest (donate) in Haiti as there is no return profit"? I'm not really sure on this, I don't really get the OP's stance here. Is his stance basically "I don't think Haiti will ever get better so why even try and help?"

I find this idea that we should let millions die because of one mans opinion that "they won't get better" to be utterly baffling. I personally can't stand back and just watch people die while I give out lukewarm reasoning like "We can't afford anything!" "It won't help!" "It's just gonna make it worse!" and people who can do that kind of disturb me.

. You can't simply stand back and watch people die.

You can't?

So what are we saving their lives for? What future do they have?

It's like keeping someone on life support, but they're brain dead and will never recover. Yea, you can keep them "alive", but are they really living?

sbtim

would you want to die? regardless of what you say next, THEY dont want to die, and that is enough to help them right there.