U.S troops to come home on Oct 1 or even sooner!

[QUOTE="sped_ed"] Did you ever stop to think that Iraqis know what's best for themselves? You'd probably be protesting if a foriegn army invaded your country; even if they knew what was best for you. xhellcatx

What makes you think you know what's best for them, are you somehow morrally supierior? I think not. If we are doing such a great thing why do so many Iraqis, who actually have to live in that mess, want us gone? Half the reason the insurgency is there is to fight off the U.S. invasion. This will never end untill we get out, which I doubt will happen anytime soon. I doubt you would be thankful, if you where an Iraqi, that a foriegn army came in set up and police state and controlled every aspect of your life.   

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="sped_ed"] Did you ever stop to think that Iraqis know what's best for themselves? You'd probably be protesting if a foriegn army invaded your country; even if they knew what was best for you. jointed

You're too naive....

You can find thousands of videos on the net where you see soldiers throwing grenades after caddle or shooting on civilian cars....

We don't know the real reason behind the Iraqi war, and we probably never will

If you can find thousands of videos of soldiers doing that crap, no wonder the Iraqis hate us, and it just goes to show how sadistic our military is: they love to hurt the weak. 

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="sped_ed"] Did you ever stop to think that Iraqis know what's best for themselves? You'd probably be protesting if a foriegn army invaded your country; even if they knew what was best for you. jointed

You're too naive....

You can find thousands of videos on the net where you see soldiers throwing grenades after caddle or shooting on civilian cars....

We don't know the real reason behind the Iraqi war, and we probably never will

And dont call me naive. I know that there are occasional a-hole soldiers out there who do stupid things...and when they get caught doing those stupid things you can surely bet that they get into deep deep trouble. I know a guy who ran over a camel with ...i forget what kinda vehicle...but he was with a commander and said to the commander "I bet I can hit that camel.." Commander said " I bet you wont!" (but he meant to actually say "You better not")....well the guy ran over the camel, and the co punished him pretty bad. (i find commanders to be a little sadistic sometimes :?)

Anyhow, You look towards the greater good...not towards the few bad. Over-all good is that its for their safety. ....And i havet actually heard about them shooting up civilian cars ect. o_O .  There are always....ALWAYS a few bad with the good.

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="sped_ed"] Did you ever stop to think that Iraqis know what's best for themselves? You'd probably be protesting if a foriegn army invaded your country; even if they knew what was best for you. sped_ed

What makes you think you know what's best for them, are you somehow morrally supierior? I think not. If we are doing such a great thing why do so many Iraqis, who actually have to live in that mess, want us gone? Half the reason the insurgency is there is to fight off the U.S. invasion. This will never end untill we get out, which I doubt will happen anytime soon. I doubt you would be thankful, if you where an Iraqi, that a foriegn army came in set up and police state and controlled every aspect of your life.   

[QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="sped_ed"] Did you ever stop to think that Iraqis know what's best for themselves? You'd probably be protesting if a foriegn army invaded your country; even if they knew what was best for you. xhellcatx

You're too naive....

You can find thousands of videos on the net where you see soldiers throwing grenades after caddle or shooting on civilian cars....

We don't know the real reason behind the Iraqi war, and we probably never will

And dont call me naive. I know that there are occasional a-hole soldiers out there who do stupid things...and when they get caught doing those stupid things you can surely bet that they get into deep deep trouble. I know a guy who ran over a camel with ...i forget what kinda vehicle...but he was with a commander and said to the commander "I bet I can hit that camel.." Commander said " I bet you wont!" (but he meant to actually say "You better not")....well the guy ran over the camel, and the co punished him pretty bad. (i find commanders to be a little sadistic sometimes :?)

Anyhow, You look towards the greater good...not towards the few bad. Over-all good is that its for their safety. ....And i havet actually heard about them shooting up civilian cars ect. o_O .  There are always....ALWAYS a few bad with the good.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2nNSovh3hYs

http://youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=c-7Uyd91pMI

These videos show american soldiers fireing at random civilians.....

You want to protect their saftey? How come the first and only things that were secured during the first days of the baghdad assault was various company buildings and oil wells (and no I'm not dragging this into an oil debate)?

I don't think the american public or the soldiers down there really know what they're fighting for......the only ones who do is Bush and his companions

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="sped_ed"] Did you ever stop to think that Iraqis know what's best for themselves? You'd probably be protesting if a foriegn army invaded your country; even if they knew what was best for you. jointed

You're too naive....

You can find thousands of videos on the net where you see soldiers throwing grenades after caddle or shooting on civilian cars....

We don't know the real reason behind the Iraqi war, and we probably never will

And dont call me naive. I know that there are occasional a-hole soldiers out there who do stupid things...and when they get caught doing those stupid things you can surely bet that they get into deep deep trouble. I know a guy who ran over a camel with ...i forget what kinda vehicle...but he was with a commander and said to the commander "I bet I can hit that camel.." Commander said " I bet you wont!" (but he meant to actually say "You better not")....well the guy ran over the camel, and the co punished him pretty bad. (i find commanders to be a little sadistic sometimes :?)

Anyhow, You look towards the greater good...not towards the few bad. Over-all good is that its for their safety. ....And i havet actually heard about them shooting up civilian cars ect. o_O . There are always....ALWAYS a few bad with the good.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2nNSovh3hYs

http://youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=c-7Uyd91pMI

These videos show american soldiers fireing at random civilians.....

You want to protect their saftey? How come the first and only things that were secured during the first days of the baghdad assault was various company buildings and oil wells (and no I'm not dragging this into an oil debate)?

I don't think the american public or the soldiers down there really know what they're fighting for......the only ones who do is Bush and his companions

The first video is of civilian contractors that fall outside of the chain of command, but were investigated. As Hellcat previously said, there are screw ups in every service that make it look bad. That doesn't mean our policies and tactics involve shooting up civilians. That has become quite a popular fallacy these days. 

Hellcat, I want to direct this to you and Urban mostly and I'd like to be as objective as possible when I write this. In that article, they said we killed an important part of the enemy, but haven't we done that many times already? I mean once we kill someone, another person will step up in his place. And we still haven't captured the big cheese or his number very close advisor. I am also wondering how you feel about that recent security breach and the many lives lost because I heard they were from your area of Fort Bragg. My heart goes out to you and the whole community and I am sure many people in that area would say they are dying for a good cause, but I heard on a report there is some skepticism in that area about this war. I just have a hard time believing that even Republicans are not losing faith about a war that has been going on this long and does not seem to have an end in sight. Maybe not enough of the good reports are coming out of that area, but it just seems like a war that cannot be won, especially with this type of management.videogamer456

The recent blow to the 82nd....yea its tough here and of course they died for a good cause...they were trying to protect innocent lives. And naturally there is some skepticism...us spouses want our mates home. We dont enjoy the thought of them being in danger...but really we are torn. Its tough, cause we want them home, but we know good and well what will happen to the innocent people of Iraq. And we dont want that to happen....cause yes, it is our fault that they are like that, but we shouldnt just pull out and let them suffer from something we have done. War isnt that easy...its not like in the movies, or on video games...its not over in a few hours an after a bucket of popcorn. It takes years to create stability...especially starting from scratch! we do see more and more of the iraqis stepping up and doing their own patrols...if we can just get them to keep stepping up, then we can get out of there sooner....but its really on them.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="sped_ed"] Did you ever stop to think that Iraqis know what's best for themselves? You'd probably be protesting if a foriegn army invaded your country; even if they knew what was best for you. xXBuffJeffXx

You're too naive....

You can find thousands of videos on the net where you see soldiers throwing grenades after caddle or shooting on civilian cars....

We don't know the real reason behind the Iraqi war, and we probably never will

And dont call me naive. I know that there are occasional a-hole soldiers out there who do stupid things...and when they get caught doing those stupid things you can surely bet that they get into deep deep trouble. I know a guy who ran over a camel with ...i forget what kinda vehicle...but he was with a commander and said to the commander "I bet I can hit that camel.." Commander said " I bet you wont!" (but he meant to actually say "You better not")....well the guy ran over the camel, and the co punished him pretty bad. (i find commanders to be a little sadistic sometimes :?)

Anyhow, You look towards the greater good...not towards the few bad. Over-all good is that its for their safety. ....And i havet actually heard about them shooting up civilian cars ect. o_O . There are always....ALWAYS a few bad with the good.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2nNSovh3hYs

http://youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=c-7Uyd91pMI

These videos show american soldiers fireing at random civilians.....

You want to protect their saftey? How come the first and only things that were secured during the first days of the baghdad assault was various company buildings and oil wells (and no I'm not dragging this into an oil debate)?

I don't think the american public or the soldiers down there really know what they're fighting for......the only ones who do is Bush and his companions

The first video is of civilian contractors that fall outside of the chain of command, but were investigated. As Hellcat previously said, there are screw ups in every service that make it look bad. That doesn't mean our policies and tactics involve shooting up civilians. That has become quite a popular fallacy these days. 

I havent stated that all soldiers are shooting at civilians or that your politics involve it.....It was just a reply to Hellcat's comment about not having seen videos were americans where massacring civilians

[QUOTE="UrbanSpartan125"][QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="UrbanSpartan125"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="xXBuffJeffXx"]It's going to get vetoed, and I feel bad for the Iraqi people if that becomes a reality.xhellcatx

The Iraqis have a standing army of over 200,000 now, thats a larger army then the majority of the countries out there.. If they can not stabalize the nation with that amount of troops, then guess what? It will never be stabalize but will most likely break into 3 different countries.

  Yeah brillient strategy, throw as many bodies he can at a problem that has been ever increasing.. Bush has done no strategy changes through out the entire war, if we consider moving more people in a strategy that is pathetic...

   Also people need to stfu with the constant predictions, no one knows what would happen if we left.  The people who have made those predictions that there would be a massacre was those same people who were WRONG on every other prediction out there...   First it was WMDs, Then it was Saddam, Then it was Terrorist ties, then it was for freeing th epeople, then it was for making the democracy, now we are just trying to stabalize the country because just about everything before that has back fired.  What needs to be done imo is split the country in 3, it will inherintly seperate the 3 main groups that are KILLING EACH OTHER for hatred they have had for one another for years.

   Minorities are not the ones getting killed its specifically those three groups that are at each others throats constantly.. How do you people expect a stable country to come from this when the Iraqis who origianlly wanted us, WANT US TO LEAVE now.

  This war has shown how a giant can be truely helpless in many senses.. For instance alot of soldiers deaths are due to explosives whcih the armored Hummers do not stop..  We have had a new car (tiger car) sense the beignning of the war, they are rugged and strong.. YET we have very few of them, this is pathetic when our military budget ='s the cummaltive amount of every other countries military budget in the WORLD. 

  IMO what we need to do is force the Iraqi's to fend for them selves, having a relativly smaller force in there while pulling out the rest.  What this would do is force Iraqi forces to stablize the area, while at the same time the otuside force move in if anything clearly serious occurs.  I also believe the country should be split up in three due to the fact it would inherintly seperate the groups that hate one another. 

  Because as it stands we have created more terorrists in this war then we could have ever done if we actually went to our course of rationaly going after terrorists nations..

  Also would like to point out how hypocritical Bush adminstration is with saying they are against extremism and brutal dictatorships when they are in bed wiith Saudi Arabia, a country renowned for their brutality not to mention having 15 of the 19 hijackers coming from that country...

   Also people must realize why the Iraqis would be mad at us righ tnow..  A recent statistic was released was 255,000 people have died directly or indireclty from the war, thats greater then Darfur.. As it stands Iraq has the highest fatality rate..  60,000 have been creditied direclty to the invasion/war from the Colition from both colateral damage, and damges of infrastructure which caused people to die from health related problems that was knocked out due to them. 

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="sped_ed"] Did you ever stop to think that Iraqis know what's best for themselves? You'd probably be protesting if a foriegn army invaded your country; even if they knew what was best for you. jointed

You're too naive....

You can find thousands of videos on the net where you see soldiers throwing grenades after caddle or shooting on civilian cars....

We don't know the real reason behind the Iraqi war, and we probably never will

And dont call me naive. I know that there are occasional a-hole soldiers out there who do stupid things...and when they get caught doing those stupid things you can surely bet that they get into deep deep trouble. I know a guy who ran over a camel with ...i forget what kinda vehicle...but he was with a commander and said to the commander "I bet I can hit that camel.." Commander said " I bet you wont!" (but he meant to actually say "You better not")....well the guy ran over the camel, and the co punished him pretty bad. (i find commanders to be a little sadistic sometimes :?)

Anyhow, You look towards the greater good...not towards the few bad. Over-all good is that its for their safety. ....And i havet actually heard about them shooting up civilian cars ect. o_O .  There are always....ALWAYS a few bad with the good.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2nNSovh3hYs

http://youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=c-7Uyd91pMI

These videos show american soldiers fireing at random civilians.....

You want to protect their saftey? How come the first and only things that were secured during the first days of the baghdad assault was various company buildings and oil wells (and no I'm not dragging this into an oil debate)?

I don't think the american public or the soldiers down there really know what they're fighting for......the only ones who do is Bush and his companions

As for our "plans" over there...I cant tell you cause I dont rightly know what the whole plan was, why it happened like that, ect. Perhaps so there was at least some standing ground...somewhere to start. Securing whole neighborhoods....thats an extremely difficult thing to do...considering how big some of those neighborhoods are, and then the occupants. Much easier to secure one big building at a time....and considering we WERE going to start operations over there...yea, it makes sence to protect the oil cause insurgents would most likely target it. Why leave it open? It was for our benifit, yea, wont argue with that.

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="UrbanSpartan125"][QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="UrbanSpartan125"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="xXBuffJeffXx"]It's going to get vetoed, and I feel bad for the Iraqi people if that becomes a reality.sSubZerOo

The Iraqis have a standing army of over 200,000 now, thats a larger army then the majority of the countries out there.. If they can not stabalize the nation with that amount of troops, then guess what? It will never be stabalize but will most likely break into 3 different countries.

  Yeah brillient strategy, throw as many bodies he can at a problem that has been ever increasing.. Bush has done no strategy changes through out the entire war, if we consider moving more people in a strategy that is pathetic...

   Also people need to stfu with the constant predictions, no one knows what would happen if we left.  The people who have made those predictions that there would be a massacre was those same people who were WRONG on every other prediction out there...   First it was WMDs, Then it was Saddam, Then it was Terrorist ties, then it was for freeing th epeople, then it was for making the democracy, now we are just trying to stabalize the country because just about everything before that has back fired.  What needs to be done imo is split the country in 3, it will inherintly seperate the 3 main groups that are KILLING EACH OTHER for hatred they have had for one another for years.

   Minorities are not the ones getting killed its specifically those three groups that are at each others throats constantly.. How do you people expect a stable country to come from this when the Iraqis who origianlly wanted us, WANT US TO LEAVE now.

  This war has shown how a giant can be truely helpless in many senses.. For instance alot of soldiers deaths are due to explosives whcih the armored Hummers do not stop..  We have had a new car (tiger car) sense the beignning of the war, they are rugged and strong.. YET we have very few of them, this is pathetic when our military budget ='s the cummaltive amount of every other countries military budget in the WORLD. 

  IMO what we need to do is force the Iraqi's to fend for them selves, having a relativly smaller force in there while pulling out the rest.  What this would do is force Iraqi forces to stablize the area, while at the same time the otuside force move in if anything clearly serious occurs.  I also believe the country should be split up in three due to the fact it would inherintly seperate the groups that hate one another. 

  Because as it stands we have created more terorrists in this war then we could have ever done if we actually went to our course of rationaly going after terrorists nations..

  Also would like to point out how hypocritical Bush adminstration is with saying they are against extremism and brutal dictatorships when they are in bed wiith Saudi Arabia, a country renowned for their brutality not to mention having 15 of the 19 hijackers coming from that country...

   Also people must realize why the Iraqis would be mad at us righ tnow..  A recent statistic was released was 255,000 people have died directly or indireclty from the war, thats greater then Darfur.. As it stands Iraq has the highest fatality rate..  60,000 have been creditied direclty to the invasion/war from the Colition from both colateral damage, and damges of infrastructure which caused people to die from health related problems that was knocked out due to them. 

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="sped_ed"] Did you ever stop to think that Iraqis know what's best for themselves? You'd probably be protesting if a foriegn army invaded your country; even if they knew what was best for you. jointed

You're too naive....

You can find thousands of videos on the net where you see soldiers throwing grenades after caddle or shooting on civilian cars....

We don't know the real reason behind the Iraqi war, and we probably never will

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="sped_ed"] Did you ever stop to think that Iraqis know what's best for themselves? You'd probably be protesting if a foriegn army invaded your country; even if they knew what was best for you. jointed

You're too naive....

You can find thousands of videos on the net where you see soldiers throwing grenades after caddle or shooting on civilian cars....

We don't know the real reason behind the Iraqi war, and we probably never will

And dont call me naive. I know that there are occasional a-hole soldiers out there who do stupid things...and when they get caught doing those stupid things you can surely bet that they get into deep deep trouble. I know a guy who ran over a camel with ...i forget what kinda vehicle...but he was with a commander and said to the commander "I bet I can hit that camel.." Commander said " I bet you wont!" (but he meant to actually say "You better not")....well the guy ran over the camel, and the co punished him pretty bad. (i find commanders to be a little sadistic sometimes :?)

Anyhow, You look towards the greater good...not towards the few bad. Over-all good is that its for their safety. ....And i havet actually heard about them shooting up civilian cars ect. o_O . There are always....ALWAYS a few bad with the good.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2nNSovh3hYs

http://youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=c-7Uyd91pMI

These videos show american soldiers fireing at random civilians.....

You want to protect their saftey? How come the first and only things that were secured during the first days of the baghdad assault was various company buildings and oil wells (and no I'm not dragging this into an oil debate)?

I don't think the american public or the soldiers down there really know what they're fighting for......the only ones who do is Bush and his companions

No the president will veto it, (way too much power imo).mark4091

Then the House and Senate can try and override his veto by a 2/3's vote. He hasn't as much power as you believe.

The democratic strategy: Create a bill admitting defeat.

The republican strategy: Ignore the bill and continue in defeat. 

The democratic strategy: Create a bill admitting defeat.

The republican strategy: Ignore the bill and continue in defeat.

Hexum-311

I'm just curious who you feel is the victor then. 

it doesnt mean anything, if you read the article it says Bush is just going to veto it and they lack sufficient votes to counter veto. Without the pork barrel spending to buy votes this bill would never has passed. Its all just political posturing which makes me sick. Congress needs to stop dicking around acting like this is a game of no consequence. I would have thought we elected compentent individuals to office but all we got is a bunch of children.JekL-0

Yes. Our so-called "governors" are pathetic.

[QUOTE="Hexum-311"]

The democratic strategy: Create a bill admitting defeat.

The republican strategy: Ignore the bill and continue in defeat.

LukeAF24

I'm just curious who you feel is the victor then.

The businesses that were awarded (perhaps rewarded for loyalty...) no-bid contracts that pay far more than they should.

Besides those people, everybody loses. 

To be honest, I have no idea whether pulling the troops out of Iraq is the best option or not.  There are simply too many extenuating circumstances surrounding this entire issue, and I don't know enough about them to make any kind of informed decision.

However, what I can say is that this "white flag" mentality that Republicans keep spouting off is completely absurd.  If we do decide to put a deadline on when the troops will be pulled out of Iraq, it will not mean we have lost the "war" on terror, or that Al Queda wins.  It simply means that this particular battle was lost, not the entire conflict.

If you are fighting a battle, and the battle is a losing effort, it is stupid to keep fighting.  You retreat, regroup, and then decide on a different course of action that will hopefully have a better chance of success.  In the case of Iraq, perhaps that means pulling out the troops and attacking the problem of terrorism another way.  Spread propaganda, use political pressure, covert assassinations of key leaders.  

Keeping the troops there may be the best course of action, but pulling them out does not mean we automatically lose. 

it doesnt mean anything, if you read the article it says Bush is just going to veto it and they lack sufficient votes to counter veto.  Without the pork barrel spending to buy votes this bill would never has passed.  Its all just political posturing which makes me sick.  Congress needs to stop dicking around acting like this is a game of no consequence.  I would have thought we elected compentent individuals to office but all we got is a bunch of children.JekL-0

They're democrats...what did you expect? :)

I don't understand why we aren't talking to the Iraqi government about this.quiglythegreat

We created the Iraqi government, so they do what we tell them.

And we are talking to them, but it's the middle-east. And somehow, leaders in the middle-east are always on the brink of insanity, which makes negotiating and rationalizing very difficult. I think a handful of nuclear strikes would solve the problem...

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"]I don't understand why we aren't talking to the Iraqi government about this.1ND1FF3R3NT

We created the Iraqi government, so they do what we tell them.

And we are talking to them, but it's the middle-east. And somehow, leaders in the middle-east are always on the brink of insanity, which makes negotiating and rationalizing very difficult. I think a handful of nuclear strikes would solve the problem...

It sounds like you are on the brink of insanity, my friend. Iraq is also a sovereign nation now, they could technically make us leave and they retain the right to ask for us to. 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070427/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bushmohan88

It's going to get vetoed, and I feel bad for the Iraqi people if that becomes a reality.xXBuffJeffXx

I feel bad for them, anyway. Guys my age (around 17) having to worry about IEDs. It's a given that it's getting vetoed, though. It seems that Congress is too evenly divided to get the 2/3s overturn, too.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="sped_ed"] Did you ever stop to think that Iraqis know what's best for themselves? You'd probably be protesting if a foriegn army invaded your country; even if they knew what was best for you. xhellcatx

You're too naive....

You can find thousands of videos on the net where you see soldiers throwing grenades after caddle or shooting on civilian cars....

We don't know the real reason behind the Iraqi war, and we probably never will

And dont call me naive. I know that there are occasional a-hole soldiers out there who do stupid things...and when they get caught doing those stupid things you can surely bet that they get into deep deep trouble. I know a guy who ran over a camel with ...i forget what kinda vehicle...but he was with a commander and said to the commander "I bet I can hit that camel.." Commander said " I bet you wont!" (but he meant to actually say "You better not")....well the guy ran over the camel, and the co punished him pretty bad. (i find commanders to be a little sadistic sometimes :?)

Anyhow, You look towards the greater good...not towards the few bad. Over-all good is that its for their safety. ....And i havet actually heard about them shooting up civilian cars ect. o_O . There are always....ALWAYS a few bad with the good.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2nNSovh3hYs

http://youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=c-7Uyd91pMI

These videos show american soldiers fireing at random civilians.....

You want to protect their saftey? How come the first and only things that were secured during the first days of the baghdad assault was various company buildings and oil wells (and no I'm not dragging this into an oil debate)?

I don't think the american public or the soldiers down there really know what they're fighting for......the only ones who do is Bush and his companions

As for our "plans" over there...I cant tell you cause I dont rightly know what the whole plan was, why it happened like that, ect. Perhaps so there was at least some standing ground...somewhere to start. Securing whole neighborhoods....thats an extremely difficult thing to do...considering how big some of those neighborhoods are, and then the occupants. Much easier to secure one big building at a time....and considering we WERE going to start operations over there...yea, it makes sence to protect the oil cause insurgents would most likely target it. Why leave it open? It was for our benifit, yea, wont argue with that.

I'd just like you guys to know a little info that video doesn't tell you (The second one. Not sure about the first one). That is MY unit last deployment to Iraq last year. That video was taken by a Navy Corpsman, who is now discharged from the military. I personally know those Marines in that video. They have already been investigated AND cleared of charges. Why? Because those Marines had the FULL copy of that video. The Corpsman cut out the beginning part where they were ambushed (they were standing post on top of a building for security). FYI those people shot in that video were not innocent, because they found weapons on the bodies, and rounds had recently been fired from those weapons. Stop assuming crap when you see some Youtube video about Marines killing civilians, because they aren't always true. This Corpsman who cut up the video was a piece of crap, I'm surprised he even survived Iraq. So know the full story before you assume crap. (And btw, that wasn't to you Hellcat, that was to the idiot who posted the videos thinking he can make a point out of them).

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="xhellcatx"][QUOTE="sped_ed"] Did you ever stop to think that Iraqis know what's best for themselves? You'd probably be protesting if a foriegn army invaded your country; even if they knew what was best for you. DarkPrinceXC

You're too naive....

You can find thousands of videos on the net where you see soldiers throwing grenades after caddle or shooting on civilian cars....

We don't know the real reason behind the Iraqi war, and we probably never will

And dont call me naive. I know that there are occasional a-hole soldiers out there who do stupid things...and when they get caught doing those stupid things you can surely bet that they get into deep deep trouble. I know a guy who ran over a camel with ...i forget what kinda vehicle...but he was with a commander and said to the commander "I bet I can hit that camel.." Commander said " I bet you wont!" (but he meant to actually say "You better not")....well the guy ran over the camel, and the co punished him pretty bad. (i find commanders to be a little sadistic sometimes :?)

Anyhow, You look towards the greater good...not towards the few bad. Over-all good is that its for their safety. ....And i havet actually heard about them shooting up civilian cars ect. o_O . There are always....ALWAYS a few bad with the good.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2nNSovh3hYs

http://youtube.com/watch?search=&mode=related&v=c-7Uyd91pMI

These videos show american soldiers fireing at random civilians.....

You want to protect their saftey? How come the first and only things that were secured during the first days of the baghdad assault was various company buildings and oil wells (and no I'm not dragging this into an oil debate)?

I don't think the american public or the soldiers down there really know what they're fighting for......the only ones who do is Bush and his companions

As for our "plans" over there...I cant tell you cause I dont rightly know what the whole plan was, why it happened like that, ect. Perhaps so there was at least some standing ground...somewhere to start. Securing whole neighborhoods....thats an extremely difficult thing to do...considering how big some of those neighborhoods are, and then the occupants. Much easier to secure one big building at a time....and considering we WERE going to start operations over there...yea, it makes sence to protect the oil cause insurgents would most likely target it. Why leave it open? It was for our benifit, yea, wont argue with that.

I'd just like you guys to know a little info that video doesn't tell you (The second one. Not sure about the first one). That is MY unit last deployment to Iraq last year. That video was taken by a Navy Corpsman, who is now discharged from the military. I personally know those Marines in that video. They have already been investigated AND cleared of charges. Why? Because those Marines had the FULL copy of that video. The Corpsman cut out the beginning part where they were ambushed (they were standing post on top of a building for security). FYI those people shot in that video were not innocent, because they found weapons on the bodies, and rounds had recently been fired from those weapons. Stop assuming crap when you see some Youtube video about Marines killing civilians, because they aren't always true. This Corpsman who cut up the video was a piece of crap, I'm surprised he even survived Iraq. So know the full story before you assume crap. (And btw, that wasn't to you Hellcat, that was to the idiot who posted the videos thinking he can make a point out of them).