What About Religion?

muahahaha TC has no idea what he has done

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

What about people that make religious threads? Without fail they end up in pointless arguments, yet people still take the time to create them.

Palantas

The best I think you can get out of religious threads is to tackle a specific issue under a shared frame of reference. For example, Christians could discuss some particular facet of Christianity. Most of the threads here are so broad in their discussion, that they draw in lots of mutually exclusive viewpoints, which quickly turns into people making fun of each other.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

What about religion?

What about people that make religious threads? Without fail they end up in pointless arguments, yet people still take the time to create them. To me, making the same threads over and over and expecting different results is a sign of an insane person.

surrealnumber5

Well if that is the case I share the same desires, I hope someone who has that sig (If you believe in god and are proud of it put this in your sig) come here.

[QUOTE="Palantas"]

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

What about people that make religious threads? Without fail they end up in pointless arguments, yet people still take the time to create them.

YellowOneKinobi

The best I think you can get out of religious threads is to tackle a specific issue under a shared frame of reference. For example, Christians could discuss some particular facet of Christianity. Most of the threads here are so broad in their discussion, that they draw in lots of mutually exclusive viewpoints, which quickly turns into people making fun of each other.

Even if the thread was more specific it would get bombarded, anything about religion is risky here.

[QUOTE="YellowOneKinobi"]

What about religion?

What about people that make religious threads? Without fail they end up in pointless arguments, yet people still take the time to create them. To me, making the same threads over and over and expecting different results is a sign of an insane person.

surrealnumber5

I'm sorry, I don't know how to type out an emotional outburst without flaming. :P Religion is a bunch of nonsense, and I have determined this because I'm so smart; there is no basis for believing anything exists which is not pat of the observable universe. Other smart people have come to the same conclusion. Finally, I've concluded that the best way to convince people of my opinion is to be a jerk to them.

Palantas

[QUOTE="Palantas"]

I'm sorry, I don't know how to type out an emotional outburst without flaming. :P Religion is a bunch of nonsense, and I have determined this because I'm so smart; there is no basis for believing anything exists which is not pat of the observable universe. Other smart people have come to the same conclusion. Finally, I've concluded that the best way to convince people of my opinion is to be a jerk to them.

00-Riddick-00

Yes he was just using passive language :P

TC -__-

Whatever, I believe In God And I'm proud of it.

Religion is what you make it. If you require the idea of the existance of a divine power to carry on in life, so be it. If you don't, so be it. I personally follow the later.

muahahaha TC has no idea what he has done

parkurtommo

Patience patience...

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="CycleOfViolence"]

Religion is what you make it. If you require the idea of the existance of a divine power to carry on in life, so be it. If you don't, so be it. I personally follow the later.

00-Riddick-00

That's true, but it's hard to resist. Because religion is impossible to proove where as atheism is purely a state of mind, no need to proove that.

This I have a problem with... Athiests do the exact same thing.. Flat out saying there is no god and critisizing anyone who says there is. If they want relgious people to keep it to themselves then perhaps they should do the same thing.00-Riddick-00

I think most of the vocal opposition to religion from atheists stem from the constant bombardment they have gone through in the past from the more vocal religious. It's kind of a "taste of their own medicine" situation.

Religion is what you make it. If you require the idea of the existance of a divine power to carry on in life, so be it. If you don't, so be it. I personally follow the later.

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

muahahaha TC has no idea what he has done

Fundai

Patience patience...

EXCELLENT!

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

muahahaha TC has no idea what he has done

parkurtommo

Patience patience...

EXCELLENT!

If I knew you were gonna use Dr. Evil I woulda used Mr. Bigglesworth

[QUOTE="00-Riddick-00"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Me too. So long as you're keeping your religion to yourself, have at it.tocool340

The problem is, to them, questons are insults, because they have no clue how to answer them without contradicting themselves.

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

Patience patience...

Fundai

EXCELLENT!

If I knew you were gonna use Dr. Evil I woulda used Mr. Bigglesworth

But he has to be smiling...

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

EXCELLENT!

parkurtommo

If I knew you were gonna use Dr. Evil I woulda used Mr. Bigglesworth

But he has to be smiling...

Don't Insult Mr. Bigglesworths evil ability

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

If I knew you were gonna use Dr. Evil I woulda used Mr. Bigglesworth

Fundai

But he has to be smiling...

Don't Insult Mr. Bigglesworths evil ability

Is he mad?

I just had to use troll face atleast once here.

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

But he has to be smiling...

parkurtommo

Don't Insult Mr. Bigglesworths evil ability

Is he mad?

I just had to use troll face atleast once here.

We are so ridiculously Off topic here :P

And We might blow our cover *looks around suspicously* >_>

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

First of all you make a mistake in saying that those characteristics have always existed, some have but not all and certainly not to the extent that they do today. Secondly, it could be easily said that anyone that is a slave to their desires and wants is not a religious person.

Religion opposes selfishness, materialism and greed etc. These are characteristics that nowadays are seen as a good thing. Yes there will be some people that have a religion that possess these characteristics but that doesn't mean religion condones it.

I agree they aren't things only reserved for non believers and that to me is a great shame. If people that believe in religion actually followed their religion, the world would be a better place. I have no doubt in my mind about that.

CycleOfViolence

We're both speculating on the first point, I can't know for sure that these characteristics have always existed, nor can you know for sure that they haven't. Couldn't you argue that some religious individuals are slaves to their respective institutions? If someone desires to be fulfilled spiritually and live their life by a holy text they are enslaving themselves to it?

Selfishness, materialism, and greed are not seen as good things. While they are prominent today, they are far from good. Just as religion doesn't condone these behaviors, nor does being non religious.

What to you characterizes as "following their religion"? Does that mean interpreting holy books literally?

There is no speculation, those characteristics are more dominant nowadays then they have ever been, that is a fact. You could indeed argue that religious people are slaves also, because in a sense they definitely are. The difference is that religious peoples are slaves to God and ideals that bring out the best in humanity.

Thats not to say all religious people are good people, because there will always be bad people regardless of their religion or the absence of it. When one devotes themselves to God however, all of these negative characteristics disappear. That is my belief.

When you say that those characteristics are not seen as good things, I'm afraid you are wrong. The mass media, advertising corporations etc have been slowly feeding these negativities into people's psyche as positive things. You only have to walk down the street and read a billboard, turn on the radio, read a newspaper, watch the TV or listen to a song etc to see it.

By 'following' their religion I mean studying and learning about it from different perspectives, from a reputable source and striving to understand it more. Religious Holy books are probably the most complex books written, especially ones that are translated from other languages which in themselves are vastly complex.

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

[QUOTE="Fundai"]

Don't Insult Mr. Bigglesworths evil ability

Fundai

Is he mad?

I just had to use troll face atleast once here.

We are so ridiculously Off topic here :P

And We might blow our cover *looks around suspicously* >_>

quick put this on:

[QUOTE="CycleOfViolence"]

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

First of all you make a mistake in saying that those characteristics have always existed, some have but not all and certainly not to the extent that they do today. Secondly, it could be easily said that anyone that is a slave to their desires and wants is not a religious person.

Religion opposes selfishness, materialism and greed etc. These are characteristics that nowadays are seen as a good thing. Yes there will be some people that have a religion that possess these characteristics but that doesn't mean religion condones it.

I agree they aren't things only reserved for non believers and that to me is a great shame. If people that believe in religion actually followed their religion, the world would be a better place. I have no doubt in my mind about that.

Asim90

We're both speculating on the first point, I can't know for sure that these characteristics have always existed, nor can you know for sure that they haven't. Couldn't you argue that some religious individuals are slaves to their respective institutions? If someone desires to be fulfilled spiritually and live their life by a holy text they are enslaving themselves to it?

Selfishness, materialism, and greed are not seen as good things. While they are prominent today, they are far from good. Just as religion doesn't condone these behaviors, nor does being non religious.

What to you characterizes as "following their religion"? Does that mean interpreting holy books literally?

There is no speculation, those characteristics are more dominant nowadays then they have ever been, that is a fact. You could indeed argue that religious people are slaves also, because in a sense they definitely are. The difference is that religious peoples are slaves to God and ideals that bring out the best in humanity.

Thats not to say all religious people are good people, because there will always be bad people regardless of their religion or the absence of it. When one devotes themselves to God however, all of these negative characteristics disappear. That is my belief.

When you say that those characteristics are not seen as good things, I'm afraid you are wrong. The mass media, advertising corporations etc have been slowly feeding these negativities into people's psyche as positive things. You only have to walk down the street and read a billboard, turn on the radio, read a newspaper, watch the TV or listen to a song etc to see it.

By 'following' their religion I mean studying and learning about it from different perspectives, from a reputable source and striving to understand it more. Religious Holy books are probably the most complex books written, especially ones that are translated from other languages which in themselves are vastly complex.

I suppose you're right but there are many people who are very corrupt or mentally insane ect, because of religion. Atheism might bring you a few unpleasant characteristics, but it's precisely those that are the most human, humanity is an ugly thing. And another thing that we should bring to this discussion is how some people use religion as an excuse for destroying the earth, many religous people deny the fact that the human race will dissapear without an apocalypse. (caused by something unatural ofcourse, since in the end, there will be an apocalypse just not one like what is described in the bible).

Personally I believe it's sad when somebody believes something based on nothing, no evidence (this goes 4 anything).

What's worse is when people have a large portion of their life revolve around it yet don't have any evidence, I think it's sad and completely illogical, believing something based on nothing goes against even the most basic logic.

LostProphetFLCL

Its funny because I believe the Opposite, Faith is good, when it come to religion... Those Who believe without seeing are true believers

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

[QUOTE="CycleOfViolence"]

We're both speculating on the first point, I can't know for sure that these characteristics have always existed, nor can you know for sure that they haven't. Couldn't you argue that some religious individuals are slaves to their respective institutions? If someone desires to be fulfilled spiritually and live their life by a holy text they are enslaving themselves to it?

Selfishness, materialism, and greed are not seen as good things. While they are prominent today, they are far from good. Just as religion doesn't condone these behaviors, nor does being non religious.

What to you characterizes as "following their religion"? Does that mean interpreting holy books literally?

parkurtommo

There is no speculation, those characteristics are more dominant nowadays then they have ever been, that is a fact. You could indeed argue that religious people are slaves also, because in a sense they definitely are. The difference is that religious peoples are slaves to God and ideals that bring out the best in humanity.

Thats not to say all religious people are good people, because there will always be bad people regardless of their religion or the absence of it. When one devotes themselves to God however, all of these negative characteristics disappear. That is my belief.

When you say that those characteristics are not seen as good things, I'm afraid you are wrong. The mass media, advertising corporations etc have been slowly feeding these negativities into people's psyche as positive things. You only have to walk down the street and read a billboard, turn on the radio, read a newspaper, watch the TV or listen to a song etc to see it.

By 'following' their religion I mean studying and learning about it from different perspectives, from a reputable source and striving to understand it more. Religious Holy books are probably the most complex books written, especially ones that are translated from other languages which in themselves are vastly complex.

I suppose you're right but there are many people who are very corrupt or mentally insane ect, because of religion. Atheism might bring you a few unpleasant characteristics, but it's precisely those that are the most human, humanity is an ugly thing. And another thing that we should bring to this discussion is how some people use religion as an excuse for destroying the earth, many religous people deny the fact that the human race will dissapear without an apocalypse. (caused by something unatural ofcourse, since in the end, there will be an apocalypse just not one like what is described in the bible).

Now you see, that doesn't make sense to me. How can you say people out there are corrupt 'because' of religion? What is the foundation for your point here? If Religion opposes corruption, how can it cause corruption? This is like saying law causes crime. Largely, the law combat crimes but there will always be people who grew up with the law that still commit crime.

I don't really understand your comment about bringing out characteristics which are precisely most human? Is that supposed to be a good thing? You lost me there.

Some people use religion as an excuse for destroying the Earth? Thats definitely a new one to me, if anything I'd say religion prohibits wastefulness, greed and destruction. Religion encourages one to respect the Earth and all of God's creations.

If you want to blame something for destroying the Earth, you should target the multibillion dollar corporations that are raping the Earth of its natural resources for a quick buck. No-one seems to comment on that much.

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

There is no speculation, those characteristics are more dominant nowadays then they have ever been, that is a fact. You could indeed argue that religious people are slaves also, because in a sense they definitely are. The difference is that religious peoples are slaves to God and ideals that bring out the best in humanity.

Thats not to say all religious people are good people, because there will always be bad people regardless of their religion or the absence of it. When one devotes themselves to God however, all of these negative characteristics disappear. That is my belief.

When you say that those characteristics are not seen as good things, I'm afraid you are wrong. The mass media, advertising corporations etc have been slowly feeding these negativities into people's psyche as positive things. You only have to walk down the street and read a billboard, turn on the radio, read a newspaper, watch the TV or listen to a song etc to see it.

By 'following' their religion I mean studying and learning about it from different perspectives, from a reputable source and striving to understand it more. Religious Holy books are probably the most complex books written, especially ones that are translated from other languages which in themselves are vastly complex.

Asim90

I suppose you're right but there are many people who are very corrupt or mentally insane ect, because of religion. Atheism might bring you a few unpleasant characteristics, but it's precisely those that are the most human, humanity is an ugly thing. And another thing that we should bring to this discussion is how some people use religion as an excuse for destroying the earth, many religous people deny the fact that the human race will dissapear without an apocalypse. (caused by something unatural ofcourse, since in the end, there will be an apocalypse just not one like what is described in the bible).

Now you see, that doesn't make sense to me. How can you say people out there are corrupt 'because' of religion? What is the foundation for your point here? If Religion opposes corruption, how can it cause corruption? This is like saying law causes crime. Largely, the law combat crimes but there will always be people who grew up with the law that still commit crime.

I don't really understand your comment about bringing out characteristics which are precisely most human? Is that supposed to be a good thing? You lost me there.

Some people use religion as an excuse for destroying the Earth? Thats definitely a new one to me, if anything I'd say religion prohibits wastefulness, greed and destruction. Religion encourages one to respect the Earth and all of God's creations.

If you want to blame something for destroying the Earth, you should target the multibillion dollar corporations that are raping the Earth of its natural resources for a quick buck. No-one seems to comment on that much.

The rest is acceptable, but really? I know that religion doesn't support pollution deforestation ect. but it certainly doesn't help, because most religions (peticularly christianity) have many statements that certainly ignore the state that this planet is in... I know that the bible doesn't say this or anything, but I get the impression that christians have a certain lay back and watch attitude. I'm just being biased though.

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

I suppose you're right but there are many people who are very corrupt or mentally insane ect, because of religion. Atheism might bring you a few unpleasant characteristics, but it's precisely those that are the most human, humanity is an ugly thing. And another thing that we should bring to this discussion is how some people use religion as an excuse for destroying the earth, many religous people deny the fact that the human race will dissapear without an apocalypse. (caused by something unatural ofcourse, since in the end, there will be an apocalypse just not one like what is described in the bible).

parkurtommo

Now you see, that doesn't make sense to me. How can you say people out there are corrupt 'because' of religion? What is the foundation for your point here? If Religion opposes corruption, how can it cause corruption? This is like saying law causes crime. Largely, the law combat crimes but there will always be people who grew up with the law that still commit crime.

I don't really understand your comment about bringing out characteristics which are precisely most human? Is that supposed to be a good thing? You lost me there.

Some people use religion as an excuse for destroying the Earth? Thats definitely a new one to me, if anything I'd say religion prohibits wastefulness, greed and destruction. Religion encourages one to respect the Earth and all of God's creations.

If you want to blame something for destroying the Earth, you should target the multibillion dollar corporations that are raping the Earth of its natural resources for a quick buck. No-one seems to comment on that much.

The rest is acceptable, but really? I know that religion doesn't support pollution deforestation ect. but it certainly doesn't help, because most religions (peticularly christianity) have many statements that certainly ignore the state that this planet is in... I know that the bible doesn't say this or anything, but I get the impression that christians have a certain lay back and watch attitude. I'm just being biased though.

Can you please provide some of these statements? Personally I'm not a Christian although I'll agree that some Christians have adopted a certain lay back attitude. I assume its mostly because the majority of Christians nowadays don't actually practice their faith. This is coming from someone in England, perhaps its different in America but I don'tknow.

[QUOTE="Asim90"]

[QUOTE="parkurtommo"]

I suppose you're right but there are many people who are very corrupt or mentally insane ect, because of religion. Atheism might bring you a few unpleasant characteristics, but it's precisely those that are the most human, humanity is an ugly thing. And another thing that we should bring to this discussion is how some people use religion as an excuse for destroying the earth, many religous people deny the fact that the human race will dissapear without an apocalypse. (caused by something unatural ofcourse, since in the end, there will be an apocalypse just not one like what is described in the bible).

parkurtommo

Now you see, that doesn't make sense to me. How can you say people out there are corrupt 'because' of religion? What is the foundation for your point here? If Religion opposes corruption, how can it cause corruption? This is like saying law causes crime. Largely, the law combat crimes but there will always be people who grew up with the law that still commit crime.

I don't really understand your comment about bringing out characteristics which are precisely most human? Is that supposed to be a good thing? You lost me there.

Some people use religion as an excuse for destroying the Earth? Thats definitely a new one to me, if anything I'd say religion prohibits wastefulness, greed and destruction. Religion encourages one to respect the Earth and all of God's creations.

If you want to blame something for destroying the Earth, you should target the multibillion dollar corporations that are raping the Earth of its natural resources for a quick buck. No-one seems to comment on that much.

The rest is acceptable, but really? I know that religion doesn't support pollution deforestation ect. but it certainly doesn't help, because most religions (peticularly christianity) have many statements that certainly ignore the state that this planet is in... I know that the bible doesn't say this or anything, but I get the impression that christians have a certain lay back and watch attitude. I'm just being biased though.

uhhh no... We don't have a lay back attitude... We are taught to actively protect the World and Gods creation, but we are also taught we a dominant over it, yet we still must steward it.

People still talk about this topic?

It's only religion when it's done right. ;)

I always like that people have this notion that if you removed religion, everything would magically be suddenly alright.m25105

Personally I believe it's sad when somebody believes something based on nothing, no evidence (this goes 4 anything).

What's worse is when people have a large portion of their life revolve around it yet don't have any evidence, I think it's sad and completely illogical, believing something based on nothing goes against even the most basic logic.

What's even worse is when people take those said beliefs (which r based on nothing) and try to force them on others, try to force them into science, try to force them into politics, and even use it to justify violence.

All while having no evidence.

LostProphetFLCL

Personally I believe it's sad when somebody believes something based on nothing, no evidence (this goes 4 anything).

What's worse is when people have a large portion of their life revolve around it yet don't have any evidence, I think it's sad and completely illogical, believing something based on nothing goes against even the most basic logic.

What's even worse is when people take those said beliefs (which r based on nothing) and try to force them on others, try to force them into science, try to force them into politics, and even use it to justify violence.

All while having no evidence.

LostProphetFLCL

[QUOTE="arbitor365"]

its an antiquated social construct that must be dissolved if society is to progress.

m25105

than the world would be alot more like countries like denmark, new zealand, norway, sweden, canada, japan and so on. These massively secular/atheist places have less crime, less teen pregnancies, better education, less STDs, more freedom for gays, and so on. Atheist/secular nations are alot more prosperous in many ways than more religious nations.

US states with the highest church attendance rates have the highest murder rates (which tends to reflect the general crime rate of a state or nation) and states with the lowest church attendance have the lowest murder rates. (these numbers are from 2007)

----------------------- church attendance ------------ murders per 1000 people ----------

Alabama ---------------- 58%-------------------------------------8.9---------------------

Louisiana-----------------58%-----------------------------------14.2----------------------------

south carolina------------58%------------------------------------8.0-------------------------------

national average----------42%-----------------------------------5.6--------------------------------

new hampshire -----------24%-----------------------------------1.1---------------------------------

vermont-------------------24%----------------------------------1.9------------------------

this doesnt mean that religion creates crime (though I think the two are both the outgrowths of the same causes). But it does seem to show that religion is not needed to have a stable, safe society and that having alot of religion doesnt seem to be of any advantage.

[QUOTE="m25105"]

[QUOTE="arbitor365"]

its an antiquated social construct that must be dissolved if society is to progress.

arbitor365

than the world would be alot more like countries like denmark, new zealand, norway, sweden, canada, japan and so on. These massively secular/atheist places have less crime, less teen pregnancies, better education, less STDs, more freedom for gays, and so on. Atheist/secular nations are alot more prosperous in many ways than more religious nations.

US states with the highest church attendance rates have the highest murder rates (which tends to reflect the general crime rate of a state or nation) and states with the lowest church attendance have the lowest murder rates. (these numbers are from 2007)

----------------------- church attendance ------------ murders per 1000 people ----------

Alabama ---------------- 58%-------------------------------------8.9---------------------

Louisiana-----------------58%-----------------------------------14.2----------------------------

south carolina------------58%------------------------------------8.0-------------------------------

national average----------42%-----------------------------------5.6--------------------------------

new hampshire -----------24%-----------------------------------1.1---------------------------------

vermont-------------------24%----------------------------------1.9------------------------

this doesnt mean that religion creates crime (though I think the two are both the outgrowths of the same causes). But it does seem to show that religion is not needed to have a stable, safe society and that having alot of religion doesnt seem to be of any advantage.

Here's one for you:

A 'day' is the amount of time it takes the earth to spin on it's axis.

The Bible claims God made the earth in 6 days.

How did he know what a day was before the earth was made?

Here's one for you:

A 'day' is the amount of time it takes the earth to spin on it's axis.

The Bible claims God made the earth in 6 days.

How did he know what a day was before the earth was made?

kraken2109

[QUOTE="m25105"]

[QUOTE="arbitor365"]

its an antiquated social construct that must be dissolved if society is to progress.

arbitor365

than the world would be alot more like countries like denmark, new zealand, norway, sweden, canada, japan and so on. These massively secular/atheist places have less crime, less teen pregnancies, better education, less STDs, more freedom for gays, and so on. Atheist/secular nations are alot more prosperous in many ways than more religious nations.

US states with the highest church attendance rates have the highest murder rates (which tends to reflect the general crime rate of a state or nation) and states with the lowest church attendance have the lowest murder rates. (these numbers are from 2007)

----------------------- church attendance ------------ murders per 1000 people ----------

Alabama ---------------- 58%-------------------------------------8.9---------------------

Louisiana-----------------58%-----------------------------------14.2----------------------------

south carolina------------58%------------------------------------8.0-------------------------------

national average----------42%-----------------------------------5.6--------------------------------

new hampshire -----------24%-----------------------------------1.1---------------------------------

vermont-------------------24%----------------------------------1.9------------------------

this doesnt mean that religion creates crime (though I think the two are both the outgrowths of the same causes). But it does seem to show that religion is not needed to have a stable, safe society and that having alot of religion doesnt seem to be of any advantage.

FACTS! NO ONE CAN ARGUE WITH THIS NOONE!!!!!!

I'll troll face anyone who tries to argue

[QUOTE="arbitor365"]

[QUOTE="m25105"] Oh and what would happen if religion suddenly disappeared?

m25105

than the world would be alot more like countries like denmark, new zealand, norway, sweden, canada, japan and so on. These massively secular/atheist places have less crime, less teen pregnancies, better education, less STDs, more freedom for gays, and so on. Atheist/secular nations are alot more prosperous in many ways than more religious nations.

US states with the highest church attendance rates have the highest murder rates (which tends to reflect the general crime rate of a state or nation) and states with the lowest church attendance have the lowest murder rates. (these numbers are from 2007)

----------------------- church attendance ------------ murders per 1000 people ----------

Alabama ---------------- 58%-------------------------------------8.9---------------------

Louisiana-----------------58%-----------------------------------14.2----------------------------

south carolina------------58%------------------------------------8.0-------------------------------

national average----------42%-----------------------------------5.6--------------------------------

new hampshire -----------24%-----------------------------------1.1---------------------------------

vermont-------------------24%----------------------------------1.9------------------------

this doesnt mean that religion creates crime (though I think the two are both the outgrowths of the same causes). But it does seem to show that religion is not needed to have a stable, safe society and that having alot of religion doesnt seem to be of any advantage.

[QUOTE="arbitor365"]

[QUOTE="m25105"] Oh and what would happen if religion suddenly disappeared?

m25105

than the world would be alot more like countries like denmark, new zealand, norway, sweden, canada, japan and so on. These massively secular/atheist places have less crime, less teen pregnancies, better education, less STDs, more freedom for gays, and so on. Atheist/secular nations are alot more prosperous in many ways than more religious nations.

US states with the highest church attendance rates have the highest murder rates (which tends to reflect the general crime rate of a state or nation) and states with the lowest church attendance have the lowest murder rates. (these numbers are from 2007)

----------------------- church attendance ------------ murders per 1000 people ----------

Alabama ---------------- 58%-------------------------------------8.9---------------------

Louisiana-----------------58%-----------------------------------14.2----------------------------

south carolina------------58%------------------------------------8.0-------------------------------

national average----------42%-----------------------------------5.6--------------------------------

new hampshire -----------24%-----------------------------------1.1---------------------------------

vermont-------------------24%----------------------------------1.9------------------------

this doesnt mean that religion creates crime (though I think the two are both the outgrowths of the same causes). But it does seem to show that religion is not needed to have a stable, safe society and that having alot of religion doesnt seem to be of any advantage.

So the US is poor huh? I didn't know that.

Personally I believe it's sad when somebody believes something based on nothing, no evidence (this goes 4 anything).

What's worse is when people have a large portion of their life revolve around it yet don't have any evidence, I think it's sad and completely illogical, believing something based on nothing goes against even the most basic logic.

What's even worse is when people take those said beliefs (which r based on nothing) and try to force them on others, try to force them into science, try to force them into politics, and even use it to justify violence.

All while having no evidence.

LostProphetFLCL

I see this line of thinking that it's acceptable to believe things based on nothing, and it's ok to force views based on other as acceptable.

I look at how messed up politics are and how messed up our economy is, and I wonder if it's somewhat rooted in poor ideas that religion perpetuates.

For example, an Alabama congressman trying to ban miscarriages. This makes no sense in any context, and it shows that the writer of the law obviously has no understanding of the birthing process yet is making laws about it. Making laws based on no evidence, coincidence? Maybe...

[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="CycleOfViolence"]

Religion is what you make it. If you require the idea of the existance of a divine power to carry on in life, so be it. If you don't, so be it. I personally follow the later.

00-Riddick-00

I think it's very very arrogant for religious people to claim all these things then get all offended when they are held to the same standards as everybody and are asked to back up claims.

----------------------- church attendance ------------ murders per 1000 people ----------

Alabama ---------------- 58%-------------------------------------8.9---------------------

Louisiana-----------------58%-----------------------------------14.2----------------------------

south carolina------------58%------------------------------------8.0-------------------------------

national average----------42%-----------------------------------5.6--------------------------------

new hampshire -----------24%-----------------------------------1.1---------------------------------

vermont-------------------24%----------------------------------1.9------------------------

arbitor365

That is a very nice chart. I appreciate nice forum formatting. On a completely unrelated note, Vermont is one of only four states to have no restrictions on concealed firearms. Conclusion: Low church attendance inspires local legislatures to reduce gun control.

Palantas is now against church attendance!

I personally see religion as political and social tool more than something sacred.

I personally see religion as political and social tool more than something sacred.

MadVybz

"Religion may, in most of its forms, be defined as the belief that the gods are on the side of the Government."-Bertrand Russell

If we're talking about religion as in organized religion, and specifically the kind with dogmatic tenets, then I'd say huge fairy tale. If we're talking about spirituality, however, I'd say I don't know how important, but important. Spirituality, though, is the antithesis of religion.