What is the Atheist/Agnostic justification for Holidays?

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

atheists make up the second largest group in the united states when religion is broken down to sects, sadly whatever sway they would have they lose when they group people either "religious" or "atheist" the only sect larger than atheists are the catholics. just tossing that outthere, maybe if atheist did not have such an abrasive minority they would have better representation. just tossing that out there.

surrealnumber5

It's really only fitting that you give up on humanity. After all, humanity gave up on you long ago.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

atheists make up the second largest group in the united states when religion is broken down to sects, sadly whatever sway they would have they lose when they group people either "religious" or "atheist" the only sect larger than atheists are the catholics. just tossing that outthere, maybe if atheist did not have such an abrasive minority they would have better representation. just tossing that out there.

surrealnumber5

atheists make up the second largest group in the united states when religion is broken down to sects, sadly whatever sway they would have they lose when they group people either "religious" or "atheist" the only sect larger than atheists are the catholics. just tossing that outthere, maybe if atheist did not have such an abrasive minority they would have better representation. just tossing that out there.

surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

I fall under this category and im having touble finding any reasonable justification for having holidays like christmas or easter or w/e. Can we atheists/agnsotics even justify celebrating a holiday? I mean in a truly secular society, shouldnt we not have national holidays like christmas or easter of good friday?

eminence_grise_

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

atheists make up the second largest group in the united states when religion is broken down to sects, sadly whatever sway they would have they lose when they group people either "religious" or "atheist" the only sect larger than atheists are the catholics. just tossing that outthere, maybe if atheist did not have such an abrasive minority they would have better representation. just tossing that out there.

-Sun_Tzu-

[QUOTE="eminence_grise_"][QUOTE="BossPerson"]

I fall under this category and im having touble finding any reasonable justification for having holidays like christmas or easter or w/e. Can we atheists/agnsotics even justify celebrating a holiday? I mean in a truly secular society, shouldnt we not have national holidays like christmas or easter of good friday?

BossPerson

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

atheists make up the second largest group in the united states when religion is broken down to sects, sadly whatever sway they would have they lose when they group people either "religious" or "atheist" the only sect larger than atheists are the catholics. just tossing that outthere, maybe if atheist did not have such an abrasive minority they would have better representation. just tossing that out there.

surrealnumber5

Where exactly does it say atheist there? The closest thing I can find is unaffiliated, which does not necessarily indicate atheist.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]i actually prefer, atheists be divided. If we were to"unite" it would seem like atheism is a religion, when infact atheism is a rejection of blind faith.

theone86

It's really only fitting that you give up on humanity. After all, humanity gave up on you long ago.

[QUOTE="BossPerson"]

[QUOTE="eminence_grise_"]I don't mind keeping holidays around that are ingrained in our culture. Especially considering the religious aspect has been all but washed out fully. Do you think Jesus is happy with the commercial capitalist circle jerk that is his Birthday celebration? If books could cry I would hug the New Testament.Engrish_Major

I get why someone would because its fun, but it does seem wrong to celebrate christmas even if you dont believe. Kinda a strange thing to do. I guess that is just how commercialized the holiday has become :(.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] lets not get into the definition of "atheism" that is one debate i am tired of having, i can only be told the dictionary is wrong so many times before i give up on humanity in that respect.

surrealnumber5

It's really only fitting that you give up on humanity. After all, humanity gave up on you long ago.

Yeah, I'M the one with the ego, because I'M the one who said they werre giving up on humanity because people didn't agree with them, and I'M the one who refuses to talk to certain individuals because I have some paranoid delusion that they reported me once for some ridiculous infraction. Get a brain, dude.

I get why someone would because its fun, but it does seem wrong to celebrate christmas even if you dont believe. Kinda a strange thing to do. I guess that is just how commercialized the holiday has become :(.

NaveedLife

I think it's kinda the same thing as getting married, while it may be viewed as a religious ceremony to some, it's a form a tradition that outlives those roots and descends into different meanings. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they cannot participate in cultural traditions.... or legal bindings

Christmas itself wasn't even originally about Jesus Christ, but a pagan holiday celebrating the life of Mithras (a mythological figure similar to Christ, mind you) juxtaposed with a feast for surviving the rough winter and Pagan new year. Constantine established the celebration to coincide with the rites of the Sun God, Mithras and with the week prior with Saturnalia. Hell, we don't even know for sure what Jesus' birthday actually is. And strangely enough, this was all about religious equality and freedom, so to not celebrate as an atheist is wrong, damnit!

tl;dr: get drunk, drink eggnog and spend time with relatives you can only stand for a day or two at the most.

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

I get why someone would because its fun, but it does seem wrong to celebrate christmas even if you dont believe. Kinda a strange thing to do. I guess that is just how commercialized the holiday has become :(.

kuraimen

[QUOTE="kuraimen"][QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

I get why someone would because its fun, but it does seem wrong to celebrate christmas even if you dont believe. Kinda a strange thing to do. I guess that is just how commercialized the holiday has become :(.

-DirtySanchez-

I think it's kinda the same thing as getting married, while it may be viewed as a religious ceremony to some, it's a form a tradition that outlives those roots and descends into different meanings. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean they cannot participate in cultural traditions.... or legal bindings

Christmas itself wasn't even originally about Jesus Christ, but a pagan holidaycelebrating the life of Mithras (a mythological figure similar to Christ, mind you) juxtaposed with a feast for surviving the rough winter and Pagan new year. Constantine established the celebration to coincide with the rites of the Sun God, Mithras and with the week prior with Saturnalia. Hell, we don't even know for sure what Jesus' birthday actually is. And strangely enough, this was all about religious equality and freedom, so to not celebrate as an atheist is wrong, damnit!

tl;dr: get drunk, drink eggnog and spend time with relatives you can only stand for a day or two at the most.

Jazz_Fan

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

It's really only fitting that you give up on humanity. After all, humanity gave up on you long ago.

theone86

Yeah, I'M the one with the ego, because I'M the one who said they werre giving up on humanity because people didn't agree with them, and I'M the one who refuses to talk to certain individuals because I have some paranoid delusion that they reported me once for some ridiculous infraction. Get a brain, dude.

i try not to associate with people of poor character, something you have shown to have in spades. every thread you post your feelings in it seems you take pride in how sh*tty your character is.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] source plstheone86

Where exactly does it say atheist there? The closest thing I can find is unaffiliated, which does not necessarily indicate atheist.

Based on this they are a very small minority (1.6%). They are definitely not the "2nd largest sect." And 83.1% of the country is religious. It's a tad bit dishonest to try and spin atheists as a sizable demographic.

You're confusing Christmas with the date chosen to celebrate it. While Jesus was VERY unlikely born in December, Christmas is the celebration of his birth.Planet_Pluto

Yes, I was saying the day of which it was chosen was to coincide with Mithras. Sorry, I typed that up rather quickly and didn't proof-read.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] i thought it was common knoweledge, http://religions.pewforum.org/affiliations, a quick search, sadly it does not break down the thousands of different Protestant churches. the two largest sects are catholics and atheists.

-Sun_Tzu-

Where exactly does it say atheist there? The closest thing I can find is unaffiliated, which does not necessarily indicate atheist.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] no matter how big your ego is and how out of touch with reality you are, you should at least understand that you are not "humanity." when or more fitting, IF you ever go outside, those creatures you see walking upright are also part of humanity. it is ok, to accept this, most people do around the age of two, and there is no shame in being a late bloomer

surrealnumber5

Yeah, I'M the one with the ego, because I'M the one who said they werre giving up on humanity because people didn't agree with them, and I'M the one who refuses to talk to certain individuals because I have some paranoid delusion that they reported me once for some ridiculous infraction. Get a brain, dude.

i try not to associate with people of poor character, something you have shown to have in spades. every thread you post your feelings in it seems you take pride in how sh*tty your character is.

Yeah, and you still haven't elaborated your position on WHY atheists are, according to the dictionary definition, the second largest group. All you did was post a link that made no specific reference to atheists at all, and when I pointed that out you started whining about how you were giving up on humanity because people didn't see the obvious truth in your statement, which you are coincidentally unable to explain to us lesser creatures.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] no matter how big your ego is and how out of touch with reality you are, you should at least understand that you are not "humanity." when or more fitting, IF you ever go outside, those creatures you see walking upright are also part of humanity. it is ok, to accept this, most people do around the age of two, and there is no shame in being a late bloomer

surrealnumber5

Yeah, I'M the one with the ego, because I'M the one who said they werre giving up on humanity because people didn't agree with them, and I'M the one who refuses to talk to certain individuals because I have some paranoid delusion that they reported me once for some ridiculous infraction. Get a brain, dude.

i try not to associate with people of poor character, something you have shown to have in spades. every thread you post your feelings in it seems you take pride in how sh*tty your character is.

Yes, I'm the one with poor character, because instead of providing logical elaboration of my point I result to self righteous ad hominem. You're the last person who should be talking about poor character. Glass houses, dude.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Yeah, I'M the one with the ego, because I'M the one who said they werre giving up on humanity because people didn't agree with them, and I'M the one who refuses to talk to certain individuals because I have some paranoid delusion that they reported me once for some ridiculous infraction. Get a brain, dude.

theone86

i try not to associate with people of poor character, something you have shown to have in spades. every thread you post your feelings in it seems you take pride in how sh*tty your character is.

Yeah, and you still haven't elaborated your position on WHY atheists are, according to the dictionary definition, the second largest group. All you did was post a link that made no specific reference to atheists at all, and when I pointed that out you started whining about how you were giving up on humanity because people didn't see the obvious truth in your statement, which you are coincidentally unable to explain to us lesser creatures.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] wow, you think i am a dictionary, i guess xaos is a talking candle stick holder and sun is a clock...

i try not to associate with people of poor character, something you have shown to have in spades. every thread you post your feelings in it seems you take pride in how sh*tty your character is.

surrealnumber5

Yeah, and you still haven't elaborated your position on WHY atheists are, according to the dictionary definition, the second largest group. All you did was post a link that made no specific reference to atheists at all, and when I pointed that out you started whining about how you were giving up on humanity because people didn't see the obvious truth in your statement, which you are coincidentally unable to explain to us lesser creatures.

Please continue not answering my points, it does wonders for your own argument.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Yeah, I'M the one with the ego, because I'M the one who said they werre giving up on humanity because people didn't agree with them, and I'M the one who refuses to talk to certain individuals because I have some paranoid delusion that they reported me once for some ridiculous infraction. Get a brain, dude.

theone86

i try not to associate with people of poor character, something you have shown to have in spades. every thread you post your feelings in it seems you take pride in how sh*tty your character is.

Yes, I'm the one with poor character, because instead of providing logical elaboration of my point I result to self righteous ad hominem. You're the last person who should be talking about poor character. Glass houses, dude.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Yeah, and you still haven't elaborated your position on WHY atheists are, according to the dictionary definition, the second largest group. All you did was post a link that made no specific reference to atheists at all, and when I pointed that out you started whining about how you were giving up on humanity because people didn't see the obvious truth in your statement, which you are coincidentally unable to explain to us lesser creatures.

theone86

Please continue not answering my points, it does wonders for your own argument.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] wow, you think i am a dictionary, i guess xaos is a talking candle stick holder and sun is a clock...

i try not to associate with people of poor character, something you have shown to have in spades. every thread you post your feelings in it seems you take pride in how sh*tty your character is.

surrealnumber5

Yes, I'm the one with poor character, because instead of providing logical elaboration of my point I result to self righteous ad hominem. You're the last person who should be talking about poor character. Glass houses, dude.

I've posted my problem with your argument on multiple occasions now, if all you want to do is detract then keep it up. I'm perfectly fine with that, it just illustrates your inability to counter my points.

I didn't attack you in order to refute your argument, I attacked you because you were being a self-righteous prick but hey, what else is new?

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] you dont even have basic reading comprehension, you just proved you cannot separate different thoughts, topics, or conversations.

surrealnumber5

Please continue not answering my points, it does wonders for your own argument.

You can chalk your poor debate skills up to a preference for not associating with me, but anyone who critically analyzes such a gambit will see the fallacy in it.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Yes, I'm the one with poor character, because instead of providing logical elaboration of my point I result to self righteous ad hominem. You're the last person who should be talking about poor character. Glass houses, dude.

theone86

I've posted my problem with your argument on multiple occasions now, if all you want to do is detract then keep it up. I'm perfectly fine with that, it just illustrates your inability to counter my points.

I didn't attack you in order to refute your argument, I attacked you because you were being a self-righteous prick but hey, what else is new?

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

Please continue not answering my points, it does wonders for your own argument.

theone86

You can chalk your poor debate skills up to a preference for not associating with me, but anyone who critically analyzes such a gambit will see the fallacy in it.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] there cannot be a ad hominem without a topic up for debate, you came out and attacked me, we are not debating anything there cannot be an ad hominem, but way to misuse terms that go well over your head.

surrealnumber5

I've posted my problem with your argument on multiple occasions now, if all you want to do is detract then keep it up. I'm perfectly fine with that, it just illustrates your inability to counter my points.

I didn't attack you in order to refute your argument, I attacked you because you were being a self-righteous prick but hey, what else is new?

You admit your debate skills are worse than mine, I accept your surrender.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="theone86"]

I've posted my problem with your argument on multiple occasions now, if all you want to do is detract then keep it up. I'm perfectly fine with that, it just illustrates your inability to counter my points.

I didn't attack you in order to refute your argument, I attacked you because you were being a self-righteous prick but hey, what else is new?

theone86

You admit your debate skills are worse than mine, I accept your surrender.

[QUOTE="theone86"]

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] for you to argue with me i would need to accept the grounds of the argument, and in order to do that i would need to associate with you on some level that is not completely dismissing of your persona, we will never have an argument.

xaos

You admit your debate skills are worse than mine, I accept your surrender.

Only if you'll watch.

easter there is no point

thanks giving is if you care for your family

same goes for xmas or only if your greedy

halloween i like the horror of things,

the only thing i can see that remotly resembles the fairytale is easter and xmas,other than that he rest is quite golden

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="theone86"]

Where exactly does it say atheist there? The closest thing I can find is unaffiliated, which does not necessarily indicate atheist.

surrealnumber5

[QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]

easter there is no point

thanks giving is if you care for your family

same goes for xmas or only if your greedy

halloween i like the horror of things,

the only thing i can see that remotly resembles the fairytale is easter and xmas,other than that he rest is quite golden

eminence_grise_

[QUOTE="almasdeathchild"]

[QUOTE="eminence_grise_"]Please never post again.eminence_grise_

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] This. Based on this they are a very small minority (1.6%). They are definitely not the "2nd largest sect." And 83.1% of the country is religious. It's a tad bit dishonest to try and spin atheists as a sizable demographic. -Sun_Tzu-

I'm getting the distinct impression that he is about to take issue with your personality and therefore be conviently unable to answer your criticisms.

[QUOTE="surrealnumber5"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] This. Based on this they are a very small minority (1.6%). They are definitely not the "2nd largest sect." And 83.1% of the country is religious. It's a tad bit dishonest to try and spin atheists as a sizable demographic. -Sun_Tzu-

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0075.pdf

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="surrealnumber5"] sect, and that is how things were measured before the anti-abortion movement when the whole "christian v. world" view was created. i am not spinning anything, every sect is different and before this us vs them mentality was adopted that was how it was measured.

theone86

I'm getting the distinct impression that he is about to take issue with your personality and therefore be conviently unable to answer your criticisms.

The same reason theists justify it: alcohol.