What is your cause?

Being that I've been studying a lot of Early Church History lately, I've been reading many short bios on people who were willing to become martyrs for their faith. This topic I've been studying made me want to ask you all a similar question: Is there a cause that you live for?

As for me, the first time I really considered this was my freshman year of high school (oh when was that... 9 years ago I guess). I overheard a conversation where someone asked, "would you be willing to die for Christianity?" My gut reaction was to quckly say, even though I was part of the conversation, "I would." That point in my life made me start thinking, would I die for such a cause? What evidence could I give that I would indeed die for a cause if I were to live for it? Every since, that has been my own stance towards my faith in Christ.

Is there something you too feel is more important than yourself and thus you feel willing to give all of yourself to its goal? It could be the things like your faith, a cause like the pro-life and pro-choice movement, or even your own enjoyment. How far are you willing to take your cause?

sex

My cause is as a rational responder to religious invitations in forums, on this web site. I'd sacrifice my on-line identity for it!

It seems utterly senseless to die for a cause on the basis of faith. This sort of thinking leads to fundamentalist religious terrorism.

My cause is to not have a cause

Mindstorm,

In thinking you would die for your cause, don't you entertain any possibility that you're being manipulated?

I can see how it could be the ultimate affirmation of your faith, but surely the chance of living on to do unknown good would always outweigh any cause you may think you'd lay your life down for.

My cause is to put IT into effect.

My cause is to not have a cause

NephilimRising

Stay alive for as long as possible. I'm doing pretty well so far.

Entertainment, anything that provides me entertainment is of top priority.

Mindstorm,

In thinking you would die for your cause, don't you entertain any possibility that you're being manipulated?

I can see how it could be the ultimate affirmation of your faith, but surely the chance of living on to do unknown good would always outweigh any cause you may think you'd lay your life down for.

RationalAtheist

To go out the same way I came, with a bang.0Tyler0

[QUOTE="0Tyler0"]To go out the same way I came, with a bang.NephilimRising

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Mindstorm,

In thinking you would die for your cause, don't you entertain any possibility that you're being manipulated?

I can see how it could be the ultimate affirmation of your faith, but surely the chance of living on to do unknown good would always outweigh any cause you may think you'd lay your life down for.

mindstorm

How old were you in your freshman year? (Sorry, I'm from the UK)

When you say "we do these things", I assume you're talking about "popping your clogs" for your cause. Could you elaborate please?

I can't understand the situation where you would willingly die for a cause. The parallel with Islamic terrorism is striking, whereby greater salvation is bought upon those who commit awful acts in the cause of their faiths - in the warped minds of adherents.

Why should you even speak of being willing to die for your faith? Isn't it a bit like pointless posturing?

[QUOTE="mindstorm"][QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

Mindstorm,

In thinking you would die for your cause, don't you entertain any possibility that you're being manipulated?

I can see how it could be the ultimate affirmation of your faith, but surely the chance of living on to do unknown good would always outweigh any cause you may think you'd lay your life down for.

How old were you in your freshman year? (Sorry, I'm from the UK)

When you say "we do these things", I assume you're talking about "popping your clogs" for your cause. Could you elaborate please?

I can't understand the situation where you would willingly die for a cause. The parallel with Islamic terrorism is striking, whereby greater salvation is bought upon those who commit awful acts in the cause of their faiths - in the warped minds of adherents.

Why should you even speak of being willing to die for your faith? Isn't it a bit like pointless posturing?

[QUOTE="RationalAtheist"]

[QUOTE="mindstorm"] I find it hard to believe that I'm being manipulated. I say this because I did not grow up in a Christian home. Sure, I was taught Christian morals and church was encouraged to an extent, but I didn't even know what a Christian was until I was 12. Many people are taught Christianity directly. With me, on the other hand, I discipled myself. I was actually the one who encouraged my family to go to church. They didn't, but I still continued to go by myself regardless. Any "manipulation" that has been done to me has been of my own doing (or from a theological stance, the Holy Spirit's doing in my life). I read the Bible for myself and learned it largely by myself (until college at least). Even my desire to become a pastor was discouraged by my family. These days I have more support but I'm still not encouraged to go as far in my faith as I'd like. Btw, I find it interesting that this question was stated. Earlier today I met a girl who wanted prayer because her dad was an unbeliever. She began crying as she said he thinks she is being manipulated. We do these things for the cause of Christ willingly with our greatest desire being to increase the fame and glory of Jesus Christ.WarEagle1357

How old were you in your freshman year? (Sorry, I'm from the UK)

When you say "we do these things", I assume you're talking about "popping your clogs" for your cause. Could you elaborate please?

I can't understand the situation where you would willingly die for a cause. The parallel with Islamic terrorism is striking, whereby greater salvation is bought upon those who commit awful acts in the cause of their faiths - in the warped minds of adherents.

Why should you even speak of being willing to die for your faith? Isn't it a bit like pointless posturing?

That always seemed a little extreme, though I guess we all have something we are very "into".

Dieing for your faith for Christians is different for Islamic Terrorists. We are not killing for our faith like suicide bombers; but instead we choose death instead of denying that Jesus is our Lord and Savior. WarEagle1357

Do you deny Christian terrorism? (Northern Ireland, Europe, Africa, etc)

Does the threat of death or denial occur often, nowadays?

To kick ass and chew bubble gum.Immortalica

And I'm done chewing bubble gum!

That always seemed a little extreme, though I guess we all have something we are very "into".

Well, when you become a Christian and realise how greatly our Savior loves us and the price he paid, deaths seems somehow less scary and you actually sometimes begin to look forward to death and going to Heaven, so you can worship your Lord and Savior. :) WarEagle1357

Death isn't such a bad prospect if you're not a Christian. Other faiths have decent after-lifes too.

For me; for all of us - death is the only certainty in life. so it's nothing to be scared of, unless you feel you can't live your OWN life before death comes.

But looking forward to it, as you do, seems a bit premature...

How old were you in your freshman year? (Sorry, I'm from the UK)

When you say "we do these things", I assume you're talking about "popping your clogs" for your cause. Could you elaborate please?

I can't understand the situation where you would willingly die for a cause. The parallel with Islamic terrorism is striking, whereby greater salvation is bought upon those who commit awful acts in the cause of their faiths - in the warped minds of adherents.

Why should you even speak of being willing to die for your faith? Isn't it a bit like pointless posturing?

RationalAtheist

I was 14 when I was a freshman. At that time, I believed in God but had serious questions (not saying I blindly except things even now however). I was constantly in thought about things like the creation story in Genesis, the Big Bang theory, whether Scripture should be taken literally, etc. At one time, the only miracle I would have acknowledged was Jesus' resurrection. During high school I was technically a Christian but my beliefs resembled that of a moral deist. These days, I'm as orthodox as they come (though not fundamental in the Westboro Baptist Church since...).

As far as "we do these things," I'm mentioning anything that would give glory to God. This includes many things ranging from my moral life when alone to me going on a mission trip in a few weeks to New York City. We, being followers of Christ, do these things not for a ticket into heaven, the approval of others, good internal feelings, but simply for the glory of God. There have been Christians today who have died for their faith, their own well being has not been their reason for having a selfless way of life.

There is a huge difference between becoming a martyr for Christ and being an Islamic terrorist. Many people who die for the cause of Islam are often doing so for blessings in heaven, essentially doing things to gain God's approval. Also, what they are doing can very well be described as crimes against humanity. Christian martyrs, on the other hand, die for a different reason. I'll give you an example from the life of Polycarp.

During the Second Century it was illegal to be a Christian causing sporadic persecution. One recorded martyrdom was from that of Polycarp. At his final trial, the judged promised that if he would swear by the emperor and curse Christ he would be free to go. But Polycarp replied, "For eighty-six years I have served him, and he has done me no evil. How could I curse the king, who saved me?" After the judge persisted all the more for him to recant, Polycarp continued all the more. As he was tied to a post about to be set on fire, he prayed aloud, "Lord Sovereign God . . . I thank you that you have deemed me worthy of this moment, so that, jointly with your martyrs, I may have a share in the cup of Christ. . . . For this . . . I bless and glorify you. Amen."

Acts like these by Christian martyrs are not selfish acts of aggression against an enemy, but typically refusing to reject the name of Christ. Many others, like William Carey, died while doing mission work over seas. People do not do things like this simply because their Sunday School teacher said they should.

As far as being willing to die for my faith, it is not as pointless as you might think. While I agree in the sense that Western Christianity's only form of persecution it faces is being made fun of by the media. However, that is not the case for all of Christendom. Many Christians die in Islamic countries and the East for their faith daily. Just today I listened to someone who went to a mission trip to Taiwan. One of the people he met while in Taiwan became a Christian and as a result, her boyfriend physically abused her. Despite this abuse, she did not repent even being a new follower of Christ. I've heard many similar stories in places like Egypt, India, China, etc.

Another reason I say it might not be pointless is that I've heavily considered becoming a missionary myself to a Middle Eastern country. I am willing to go but I think God has other things planned for me. Even still, I know of pastors who have been killed even while in the middle of a sermon. For example, Mark Driscoll, a pastor in Seattle, WA, has had someone come after him with a machete. Thankfully, no one was hurt.

[QUOTE="WarEagle1357"]

Dieing for your faith for Christians is different for Islamic Terrorists. We are not killing for our faith like suicide bombers; but instead we choose death instead of denying that Jesus is our Lord and Savior. RationalAtheist

Do you deny Christian terrorism? (Northern Ireland, Europe, Africa, etc)

Does the threat of death or denial occur often, nowadays?

I want to create an Iron Man suit...I'd die for that.

I was 14 when I was a freshman. At that time, I believed in God but had serious questions (not saying I blindly except things even now however). I was constantly in thought about things like the creation story in Genesis, the Big Bang theory, whether Scripture should be taken literally, etc. At one time, the only miracle I would have acknowledged was Jesus' resurrection. During high school I was technically a Christian but my beliefs resembled that of a moral deist. These days, I'm as orthodox as they come (though not fundamental in the Westboro Baptist Church since...).

As far as "we do these things," I'm mentioning anything that would give glory to God. This includes many things ranging from my moral life when alone to me going on a mission trip in a few weeks to New York City. We, being followers of Christ, do these things not for a ticket into heaven, the approval of others, good internal feelings, but simply for the glory of God. There have been Christians today who have died for their faith, their own well being has not been their reason for having a selfless way of life.

There is a huge difference between becoming a martyr for Christ and being an Islamic terrorist. Many people who die for the cause of Islam are often doing so for blessings in heaven, essentially doing things to gain God's approval. Also, what they are doing can very well be described as crimes against humanity. Christian martyrs, on the other hand, die for a different reason. I'll give you an example from the life of Polycarp.

During the Second Century it was illegal to be a Christian causing sporadic persecution. One recorded martyrdom was from that of Polycarp. At his final trial, the judged promised that if he would swear by the emperor and curse Christ he would be free to go. But Polycarp replied, "For eighty-six years I have served him, and he has done me no evil. How could I curse the king, who saved me?" After the judge persisted all the more for him to recant, Polycarp continued all the more. As he was tied to a post about to be set on fire, he prayed aloud, "Lord Sovereign God . . . I thank you that you have deemed me worthy of this moment, so that, jointly with your martyrs, I may have a share in the cup of Christ. . . . For this . . . I bless and glorify you. Amen."

Acts like these by Christian martyrs are not selfish acts of aggression against an enemy, but typically refusing to reject the name of Christ. Many others, like William Carey, died while doing mission work over seas. People do not do things like this simply because their Sunday School teacher said they should.

As far as being willing to die for my faith, it is not as pointless as you might think. While I agree in the sense that Western Christianity's only form of persecution it faces is being made fun of by the media. However, that is not the case for all of Christendom. Many Christians die in Islamic countries and the East for their faith daily. Just today I listened to someone who went to a mission trip to Taiwan. One of the people he met while in Taiwan became a Christian and as a result, her boyfriend physically abused her. Despite this abuse, she did not repent even being a new follower of Christ. I've heard many similar stories in places like Egypt, India, China, etc.

Another reason I say it might not be pointless is that I've heavily considered becoming a missionary myself to a Middle Eastern country. I am willing to go but I think God has other things planned for me. Even still, I know of pastors who have been killed even while in the middle of a sermon. For example, Mark Driscoll, a pastor in Seattle, WA, has had someone come after him with a machete. Thankfully, no one was hurt.

mindstorm

You said at 14, you were prepared to die for your faith. This was despite your "serious questions" and deist outlook. Does that indicate you are a committed believer, rather than a committed Christian?

Christian and Islamic terrorism are one and the same. Please note the link I supplied to Christian Terrorism. Its prevalent right now in Ireland, India, Africa and Europe. Even in the US, anti-abortionists have gone too far.

How does being willing to die for your faith tie in with reading about attacks against Christians? Or thinking about becoming a missionary?

That Mark Driscoll incident would be just like someone dying in the course of their employment. The other example you gave was from the 1st century and is largely anecdotal.

Just because people claim that they are doing something for the cause of Christ does not mean it is Christ's cause. Such acts are clearly in contradiction with Jesus' teaching.

mindstorm

They claim they are right, and some provide suitable biblical verses to back up their causes.

The bible has been so widely interpreted, no wonder there is so much disagreement within the faith.

Also, talk of dieing for your faith is very provocative, and would obviously illicit a defensive response in those who disagree with your faith.

You said at 14, you were prepared to die for your faith. This was despite your "serious questions" and deist outlook. Does that indicate you are a committed believer, rather than a committed Christian?

Christian and Islamic terrorism are one and the same. Please note the link I supplied to Christian Terrorism. Its prevalent right now in Ireland, India, Africa and Europe. Even in the US, anti-abortionists have gone too far.

How does being willing to die for your faith tie in with reading about attacks against Christians? Or thinking about becoming a missionary?

That Mark Driscoll incident would be just like someone dying in the course of their employment. The other example you gave was from the 1st century and is largely anecdotal.

RationalAtheist

I'm not sure if my answer at the age of 14 was true or not. It was my gut "Sunday school answer." That event, however, was what seriously got me thinking about it though. Also, I was a Christian. Sure, I had serious questions about major doctrinal issues but that is to be expected from a new believer.

I do not support Christian terrorism and how is this in any way similar to people willing to be martyred for their faith?

If I became a missionary in certain countries, there'd be a chance that I'd die for the cause. Why would I do such a thing if I were not willing to "finish the fight"? However, being from the United States does actually help reduce the amount of American Christians that are martyred. Not many are brave enough to kill a US citizen (especially if it's the government doing the persecuting as opposed to an individual).

As far as Mark Driscoll is concerned, I do get your point. However, my thoughts regarding the issue will largely change what I'm willing to do. For example, there are simply some places that are simply not safe to be. If my goal is more to help people as opposed to being careful, then would I be willing to hang out with a homeless person in a bad neighborhood? Typically speaking, sane people do not hang out with homeless people late into the night. I'm not saying unbelievers will not do things like this but typically when done, it's for a cause that is greater than their safety.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]

Just because people claim that they are doing something for the cause of Christ does not mean it is Christ's cause. Such acts are clearly in contradiction with Jesus' teaching.

RationalAtheist

They claim they are right, and some provide suitable biblical verses to back up their causes.

The bible has been so widely interpreted, no wonder there is so much disagreement within the faith.

Also, talk of dieing for your faith is very provocative, and would obviously illicit a defensive response in those who disagree with your faith.

I dont know if I'd die for any cause per se, but I certainly would kill for one.

As for the question, I got two causes.

1. Gay rights. I dont know why I gravitate towards this, but it is something I get really amped about and Ive even participated in a few rallies. Idunno I really like gay people, and it saddens me to see them being treated differently.

2. Beer. God help the world that ever decides to ban alcohol again, for if they do I shall call myself The Bearjew and club in the heads of any pro-prohibition-minded folks. Beer is an inexpensive, simple pleasure that has been part of humankind's culture for over 4000 thousand years. When we harvested grain, we made beer. If God exists, he/she/it/they are in beer because it has divine properties. When people come into my brewery and enjoy my product, I instantly see their attitudes take a turn for the better.

I'm not sure if my answer at the age of 14 was true or not. It was my gut "Sunday school answer." That event, however, was what seriously got me thinking about it though. Also, I was a Christian. Sure, I had serious questions about major doctrinal issues but that is to be expected from a new believer.

I do not support Christian terrorism and how is this in any way similar to people willing to be martyred for their faith?

If I became a missionary in certain countries, there'd be a chance that I'd die for the cause. Why would I do such a thing if I were not willing to "finish the fight"? However, being from the United States does actually help reduce the amount of American Christians that are martyred. Not many are brave enough to kill a US citizen (especially if it's the government doing the persecuting as opposed to an individual).

As far as Mark Driscoll is concerned, I do get your point. However, my thoughts regarding the issue will largely change what I'm willing to do. For example, there are simply some places that are simply not safe to be. If my goal is more to help people as opposed to being careful, then would I be willing to hang out with a homeless person in a bad neighborhood? Typically speaking, sane people do not hang out with homeless people late into the night. I'm not saying unbelievers will not do things like this but typically when done, it's for a cause that is greater than their safety.

mindstorm

At least you came clean!

Christian and Catholic martydom was a feature of Irish terrorism. I know about it, since I lived in the UK while it was at its height. Life-stretch terrorist prisoners were elevated to martyrs who's murals still adorn the walls throughout Ireland. Bobby Sands died on hunger strike while serving time for republican (Catholic) terrorism, for example.

Would you expect to die for your cause doing missionary work? You said you wouldn't, so doing such work would have nothing to do with "dieing for a cause" where the inference is that death is planned, or that the circumstance has been considered. If you would expect to die on the streets at night, then wouldn't you think your time better spent on other ways of indoctinating the homeless, rather than risking early death? Think about the greater good that could be done with extended life.

Are you denying secular charities like the Red Cross, UNICEF, OXFAM, Amnesty International, GreenPeace exist?

People gladly risk their safety for all sorts of things, but to say you would die for a faith? Under exactly what circumstance? Gun to the head? Wouldn't it be easier to lie (again like you did in this thread) and live on to fulfil your potential?

I can provide "suitable biblical verses" that back up the belief that fat people cannot go to heaven because "narrow is the gate." Does that mean it is biblical or Christian? No. Let me put it this way, orthodox Christianity does not endorse any form of terrorism. Any time such inhuman acts have ever been supposedly endorsed by Scripture, it's typically because a person with certain biases interpreted their own thoughts into a text. And btw, I have no intention trying to die for my faith. I want to live a long and full life. However, I will not reject the name of Christ even in the face of death. Another difference between Christian martyrs and Islamic extremists is that Christians do not intentionally (and sanely) plan to die in this way. We are simply hard-headed and stubborn in the face of accusation.mindstorm

The "narrow gate" does highlight the wide interpretations of vague references that perpetuate theistic argument.

The Old Testament was full of hate. There's some in the NT too.

In the simple scenareo of someone shooting you if you say "Christian" and calling you a taxi if you say "other", you'd really take a bullet?

I'd love to call your bluff, and have a big bet on sharing your taxi.

RationalAtheist, I like your posts, but why do you have to argue with religious people almost everywhere on GS?

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]I can provide "suitable biblical verses" that back up the belief that fat people cannot go to heaven because "narrow is the gate." Does that mean it is biblical or Christian? No. Let me put it this way, orthodox Christianity does not endorse any form of terrorism. Any time such inhuman acts have ever been supposedly endorsed by Scripture, it's typically because a person with certain biases interpreted their own thoughts into a text. And btw, I have no intention trying to die for my faith. I want to live a long and full life. However, I will not reject the name of Christ even in the face of death. Another difference between Christian martyrs and Islamic extremists is that Christians do not intentionally (and sanely) plan to die in this way. We are simply hard-headed and stubborn in the face of accusation.RationalAtheist

The "narrow gate" does highlight the wide interpretations of vague references that perpetuate theistic argument.

The Old Testament was full of hate. There's some in the NT too.

In the simple scenareo of someone shooting you if you say "Christian" and calling you a taxi if you say "other", you'd really take a bullet?

I'd love to call your bluff, and have a big bet on sharing your taxi.

Where is this "hate" in the OT?

At least you came clean!

Christian and Catholic martydom was a feature of Irish terrorism. I know about it, since I lived in the UK while it was at its height. Life-stretch terrorist prisoners were elevated to martyrs who's murals still adorn the walls throughout Ireland. Bobby Sands died on hunger strike while serving time for republican (Catholic) terrorism, for example.

Would you expect to die for your cause doing missionary work? You said you wouldn't, so doing such work would have nothing to do with "dieing for a cause" where the inference is that death is planned, or that the circumstance has been considered. If you would expect to die on the streets at night, then wouldn't you think your time better spent on other ways of indoctinating the homeless, rather than risking early death? Think about the greater good that could be done with extended life.

Are you denying secular charities like the Red Cross, UNICEF, OXFAM, Amnesty International, GreenPeace exist?

People gladly risk their safety for all sorts of things, but to say you would die for a faith? Under exactly what circumstance? Gun to the head? Wouldn't it be easier to lie (again like you did in this thread) and live on to fulfil your potential?

RationalAtheist

From what I know of such acts like these "Christian martyrs" you speak of, such acts are an excuss. In all seriousness, if you are able to convence yourself that God is on your side, would you not be more bold in your selfish actions? Doing things like this is merely under the guise of Christianity but is not to be considered orthodox Christian teachings in any sense.

I suppose it would help if you understood the cause of Christ a bit more. Christians are told by Christ to "bear your cross daily." We are essentially told to bear our electric chairs with us. Many "Christian pastors" teach that we will be blessed financially, emotionally, and spiritually by becoming a Christian. However, this is very different than the experiences of even the gospel writers. We are called to willingly deny ourselves for the sake of God and others. I am not intending on dying any time soon but in a sense, I'm called to die to myself. As Christ increases, I must decrease. Do not get me wrong here. We are to enjoy our lives, but our enjoyment should be in service to our God and fellow man.

As far as secular charities go, I did state the following in my previous post, "I'm not saying unbelievers will not do things like this but typically when done, it's for a cause that is greater than their safety."

And when it comes to under what circumstances I'd die for my faith, I don't know. I do not seclude myself in a dark room planning how I might die one day so it's hard to answer such a hypothetical question. My best answer is simply that I'll do whatever it takes so that I do not profain the name of Christ.

And how did I lie? I'm not aware of ever doing so... o_O

The "narrow gate" does highlight the wide interpretations of vague references that perpetuate theistic argument.

The Old Testament was full of hate. There's some in the NT too.

In the simple scenareo of someone shooting you if you say "Christian" and calling you a taxi if you say "other", you'd really take a bullet?

I'd love to call your bluff, and have a big bet on sharing your taxi.

RationalAtheist

And yes, I do hope that I'd be willing to take the bullet. However, being that I've never had my life threatened in this way, I can't know what I'd do for certain.

[QUOTE="Immortalica"]To kick *** and chew bubble gum.xXBuffJeffXx

And I'm done chewing bubble gum!