What is your political party?

Libertarian Conservative. Republican.DevilMightCry

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

[QUOTE="mingmao3046"] why? because they want low taxes and don't support gay marriage/abortion? lolmingmao3046

Not supporting gay marriage is repulsive, but I'm talking more about the way they prioritize the wealthy over regular people and how they pretend to be the fiscally responsible party while supporting things that raise the defecit.

However, based on some of your posts, I certainly don't expect you to have the moral maturity to process what I'm saying.

On what basis do you make this claim?

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="mingmao3046"] why? because they want low taxes and don't support gay marriage/abortion? lolDaBrainz

Mitt Romney would raise taxes on the middle class to pay for tax cuts for his ultra rich donors.

OK, it's mathmatically impossible for him to do what he says he is going to do. He is either going to increase the deficit or increase the tax burden on the middle class. (as has been sited by independent economists multiple times)

You are engaging in your usual strawmen however. Just because the Dems acknowledge that some people need food stamps doesn't mean they actually want people to be on food stamps.

Also, "not fixing the economy" is not really a political position that can be measured as being centrist or not centrist.

GreySeal9

Really? Then why did they have foodstamp information in the Mexican embassies in our country and their own? That seems like wanting to justify even more money for foodstamps by getting as many people on them as possible.

As for the other part, I was merely pointing out the absurdity of democrats being centrist. None of you are. If you were you wouldn't be voting for Obama.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

You are engaging in your usual strawmen however. Just because the Dems acknowledge that some people need food stamps doesn't mean they actually want people to be on food stamps.

Also, "not fixing the economy" is not really a political position that can be measured as being centrist or not centrist.

airshocker

Really? Then why did they have foodstamp information in the Mexican embassies in our country and their own? That seems like wanting to justify even more money for foodstamps by getting as many people on them as possible.

As for the other part, I was merely pointing out the absurdity of democrats being centrist. None of you are. If you were you wouldn't be voting for Obama.

Obama is clearly a centrist to any level-headed political observer. If he wasn't, why would progressives be so livid with him?If you don't believe me, go check out Salon.com. The progressives there actually think he's a Republican in disguise. That's how much Obama has utterly ignored his progressive base. What policies in particular do you think are far left?

Information on foodstamps in no way=Dems wanting people to be on foodstamps. I'm not sure why you're making that leap.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

You are engaging in your usual strawmen however. Just because the Dems acknowledge that some people need food stamps doesn't mean they actually want people to be on food stamps.

Also, "not fixing the economy" is not really a political position that can be measured as being centrist or not centrist.

airshocker

Really? Then why did they have foodstamp information in the Mexican embassies in our country and their own? That seems like wanting to justify even more money for foodstamps by getting as many people on them as possible.

As for the other part, I was merely pointing out the absurdity of democrats being centrist. None of you are. If you were you wouldn't be voting for Obama.

Obama is clearly a centrist to any level-headed political observer. If he wasn't, why would progressive be so livid with him?If you don't believe me, go check out Salon.com. The progressives there actually think he's a Republican in disguise. That's how much Obama has utterly ignored his progressive base. What policies in particular do you think are far left?

Information on foodstamps in no way=Dems wanting people to be on foodstamps. I'm not sure why you're making that leap.

GreySeal9

No, he's a centrist to liberals trying to sell him as one. If anything, he's a political opportunist pretending to be a centrist.

Obamacare with it's sweet-heart deals for unions and individual mandate is far-left. His support of a public option is far left. His blind support for unions in general is far left.

Ignoring our natural fossil fuel reserves is far left. Keeping the corporate tax rate to an uncompetitive level is far left. Keeping a tax code that makes it almost impossible for average people to do their taxes is far left. Policies that empower the government, make people dependent on it, are far left. Stimulus is left.

I don't see how he isn't a leftist, but then again, I'm not trying to get him re-elected.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

You are engaging in your usual strawmen however. Just because the Dems acknowledge that some people need food stamps doesn't mean they actually want people to be on food stamps.

Also, "not fixing the economy" is not really a political position that can be measured as being centrist or not centrist.

airshocker

Really? Then why did they have foodstamp information in the Mexican embassies in our country and their own? That seems like wanting to justify even more money for foodstamps by getting as many people on them as possible.

As for the other part, I was merely pointing out the absurdity of democrats being centrist. None of you are. If you were you wouldn't be voting for Obama.

The only reason you don't notice democrats being more centrist is because republicans have moved so insanely far to the right that democrats appear liberal in comparison.

Only you could think that having information easily available is a bad thing. Oh you :PRavensmash

I think giving food stamps to illegal immigrants is a bad thing, not having a website with information being available.

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

Not as repulsive as the Democrats.

themajormayor

So moving more towards the center has made democrats more repulsive then the new ultra right standard of republicans? What the f*ck kind of glasses are you viewing the world through?

The only reason you don't notice democrats being more centrist is because republicans have moved so insanely far to the right that democrats appear liberal in comparison.

Guybrush_3

Coming from you that's meaningless. I've been hearing the same old "Republicans are far-right extremists" since the landslide election that lost you control of the House. I don't see any of that.

I see average people that don't agree with everything their party stands for, but realizes it's much better than four more years of Democratic policy that hasn't been working.

Labour. Social-democrat. Solidarity is my ideology.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Obama is clearly a centrist to any level-headed political observer. If he wasn't, why would progressive be so livid with him?If you don't believe me, go check out Salon.com. The progressives there actually think he's a Republican in disguise. That's how much Obama has utterly ignored his progressive base. What policies in particular do you think are far left?

Information on foodstamps in no way=Dems wanting people to be on foodstamps. I'm not sure why you're making that leap.

airshocker

No, he's a centrist to liberals trying to sell him as one. If anything, he's a political opportunist pretending to be a centrist.

Obamacare with it's sweet-heart deals for unions and individual mandate is far-left. His support of a public option is far left. His blind support for unions in general is far left.

Ignoring our natural fossil fuel reserves is far left. Keeping the corporate tax rate to an uncompetitive level is far left. Keeping a tax code that makes it almost impossible for average people to do their taxes is far left. Policies that empower the government, make people dependent on it, are far left. Stimulus is left.

I don't see how he isn't a leftist, but then again, I'm not trying to get him re-elected.

You are really stretching.

Stimulus is not far left. Even Republicans support the idea of stimulus.

Obamacare is based on a plan crafted by the Heritage foundation, supported by such leftists as Newt Gingrich. :lol: Not far left.

"Policies that empower the government" is an incredibly vague statement that doesn't mean much.

Ignoring our natural fossil fuel reserves is not only not far left, but it's not really true.

Obama is center left at best. You are just so far right that center left looks like far left to you.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

You are engaging in your usual strawmen however. Just because the Dems acknowledge that some people need food stamps doesn't mean they actually want people to be on food stamps.

Also, "not fixing the economy" is not really a political position that can be measured as being centrist or not centrist.

airshocker

Really? Then why did they have foodstamp information in the Mexican embassies in our country and their own? That seems like wanting to justify even more money for foodstamps by getting as many people on them as possible.

As for the other part, I was merely pointing out the absurdity of democrats being centrist. None of you are. If you were you wouldn't be voting for Obama.

That's a pretty ridiculous statement in all honesty

Obama's health care bill is probably the most far left legislation he has passed and it's a very watered down form of universal health care. He is far more centrist then what he claims to be. His actual policy is more akin to the authoritarian right than liberal ideology

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

The only reason you don't notice democrats being more centrist is because republicans have moved so insanely far to the right that democrats appear liberal in comparison.

airshocker

Coming from you that's meaningless. I've been hearing the same old "Republicans are far-right extremists" since the landslide election that lost you control of the House. I don't see any of that.

independent economiss Guybrush_3

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

If you think those things are the fault of the democrats then you truly are a moron (except for getting people food stamps that need them, that tends to be a democratic thing. Keeping people poor enough that they need food stamps tends to be republican though) but I think we already knew that you were a moron.

airshocker

I'm the moron? :lol: The Clinton administration caused the housing bubble by deregulation. I'm not the one denying that.

[QUOTE="airshocker"]

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

If you think those things are the fault of the democrats then you truly are a moron (except for getting people food stamps that need them, that tends to be a democratic thing. Keeping people poor enough that they need food stamps tends to be republican though) but I think we already knew that you were a moron.

imaps3fanboy

I'm the moron? :lol: The Clinton administration caused the housing bubble by deregulation. I'm not the one denying that.

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]Only you could think that having information easily available is a bad thing. Oh you :Pairshocker

I think giving food stamps to illegal immigrants is a bad thing, not having a website with information being available.

You are really stretching.

Stimilus is not far left. Even Republicans support the idea of stimulus.

Obamacare is based on a plan crafted by the Heritage foundation, supported by such leftists as Newt Gingrich. :lol: Not far left.

"Policies that empower the government" is an incredibly vague statement that doesn't mean much.

Ignoring our natural fossil fuel reserves is not only not far left, but it's not really true.

Obama is center left at best. You are just so far right that center left looks like far left to you.

GreySeal9

No, I'm not.

Stimulus is left. It's a major part of Keynesian economics which advocate for high government spending. That is completely in line with left ideology.

The Heritage Foundation doesn't support it now, neither does Newt Gingrich. Not seeing how it isn't far-left.

It may be vague in the sense that I can't, at the moment, drudge through Google to find your examples, but it's still far left.

It's very true. ANWAR hasn't been touched. The EPA is constantly trying to stop hydro-fracturing throughout the country. Federal land isn't being given back to the states for their use.

Obama is a liberal pretending to be center-left because it's politically viable at the moment. The only people unwilling to admit to it at liberals like yourself. And I'm not far right. I'm just much less apathetic than you are.

We hardly spend anything on welfare programs in this country. Compared to the overall budget it's hardly even noteworthy. slash defense spending, and cut public jobs (including your own)imaps3fanboy

45 million people on foodstamps seems to say otherwise.

Democrats are considered centre right by most political spectrums.Ravensmash

Not in this country.

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]Democrats are considered centre right by most political spectrums.airshocker

Not in this country.

Deregulation? I thought republicans loved deregulated laissez-faire capitalismimaps3fanboy

When have Republicans ever claimed to be against regulation that prevented banks from giving loans out to people who couldn't afford them?

DERP!!!! God, the amount of times we've had these conversations should have at least clued you in.

But pretty much everywhere else. The American political spectrum is incredibly narrow.Ravensmash

I don't care about anywhere else WRT political spectrums. It's not relevant to this current discussion.

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]But pretty much everywhere else. The American political spectrum is incredibly narrow.airshocker

I don't care about anywhere else WRT political spectrums. It's not relevant to this current discussion.

Yes it is. You're just too narrowminded to see airshocker. Open up your mind and your heart.Ravensmash

No, it isn't. Yes, I'm narrowminded in the sense that I can differentiate when things are relevant and when they aren't. Other countries aren't relevant when discussing the leanings of the American political parties, or particular politicians.

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

You are really stretching.

Stimilus is not far left. Even Republicans support the idea of stimulus.

Obamacare is based on a plan crafted by the Heritage foundation, supported by such leftists as Newt Gingrich. :lol: Not far left.

"Policies that empower the government" is an incredibly vague statement that doesn't mean much.

Ignoring our natural fossil fuel reserves is not only not far left, but it's not really true.

Obama is center left at best. You are just so far right that center left looks like far left to you.

airshocker

No, I'm not.

Stimulus is left. It's a major part of Keynesian economics which advocate for high government spending. That is completely in line with left ideology.

The Heritage Foundation doesn't support it now, neither does Newt Gingrich. Not seeing how it isn't far-left.

It may be vague in the sense that I can't, at the moment, drudge through Google to find your examples, but it's still far left.

It's very true. ANWAR hasn't been touched. The EPA is constantly trying to stop hydro-fracturing throughout the country. Federal land isn't being given back to the states for their use.

Obama is a liberal pretending to be center-left because it's politically viable at the moment. The only people unwilling to admit to it at liberals like yourself. And I'm not far right. I'm just much less apathetic than you are.

Stimulus might have left origins and be on the left side of economic theory, but it is now the accepted way of growing the economy and Republicans support it. That makes it centrist. The mainstream view, which is stimulus, is always centrist. Also, just because something is left doesn't mean it can't be centrist. It's only things that are far or extreme left that can't be centrist.

Whether the Heritage Foundation or Gingrich support in now is irrelevant. A plan that the right proposed to counter a genuinely far left plan is not far left. I don't see how that is up for debate.

Even if I give you the point on energy (which I don't), that's hardly enough to call someone a far leftist. :lol:

Whether your far right or not, I don't think you understand the meaning of centrist or far left.

I never said Obama wasn't a liberal, but he's not far left (it is possible for both liberals and conservatives to be centrists). To think he's far left is a stance absolutely divorced from reality and one that geniuine leftists would laugh at.

[QUOTE="Ravensmash"]Democrats are considered centre right by most political spectrums.airshocker

Not in this country.

According to who? You? Conservatives?

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]We hardly spend anything on welfare programs in this country. Compared to the overall budget it's hardly even noteworthy. slash defense spending, and cut public jobs (including your own)airshocker

45 million people on foodstamps seems to say otherwise.

Stimulus might have left origins and be on the left side of economic theory, but it is now the accepted way of growing the economy and Republicans support it. That makes it centrist. The mainstream view, which is stimulus, is always centrist. Also, just because something is left doesn't mean it can't be centrist. It's only things that are far or extreme left that can't be centrist.

Whether the Heritage Foundation or Gingrich support in now is irrelevant. A plan that the right proposed to counter a genuinely far left plan is not far left. I don't see how that is up for debate.

Even if I give you the point on energy (which I don't), that's hardly enough to call someone a far leftist. :lol:

Whether your far right or not, I don't think you understand the meaning of centrist or far left.

I never said Obama wasn't a liberal, but he's not far left (it is possible for both liberals and conservatives to be centrists). To think he's far left is a stance absolutely divorced from reality.

GreySeal9

Republicans don't support it. If we did, there'd be more of it.

It's not irrelevant. Here's a great example: I used to be against gay marriage. Now I'm not. You can't rightly call me a bigot.

I don't need you to give me points on anything. My statements stand for themselves.

Considering you can't even tell when your politician is pretending to be something else in order to be politically expedient, I don't think you're in much of a position to comment on when somebody understands something.

Of course he's far left. Unfortunately you can't see for yourself because even if he does win the election, Republicans won't lose control of the house.

Yet our entire welfare program is less than 6% of the budget, whereas national defense is astronomically largerimaps3fanboy

As it should be.

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]Deregulation? I thought republicans loved deregulated laissez-faire capitalismairshocker

When have Republicans ever claimed to be against regulation that prevented banks from giving loans out to people who couldn't afford them?

DERP!!!! God, the amount of times we've had these conversations should have at least clued you in.

Alan Greenspan ring a bell? imaps3fanboy

Bill Clinton and Andrew Cuomo ring a bell?

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]Yet our entire welfare program is less than 6% of the budget, whereas national defense is astronomically largerairshocker

As it should be.

Then don't complain about the deficit.imaps3fanboy

Why not? Spending IS far too high, that's not in question. But the budget ratios are pretty good. Defense should take precedent over welfare because everyone in this country benefits from a strong military, not everyone benefits from welfare.

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]Yet our entire welfare program is less than 6% of the budget, whereas national defense is astronomically largerairshocker

As it should be.

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]Alan Greenspan ring a bell? airshocker

Bill Clinton and Andrew Cuomo ring a bell?

Fed controls interest rates. Alan Greespan was head of the fed reserve. Blame is on him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/business/economy/24panel.html

"Greenspan admitted that he had put too much faith in the self-correcting power of free markets and had failed to anticipate the self-destructive power of wanton mortgage lending."

"Critics, including many economists, now blame the former Fed chairman for the financial crisis that is tipping the economy into a potentially deep recession. Mr. Greenspans critics say that he encouraged the bubble in housing prices by keeping interest rates too low for too long and that he failed to rein in the explosive growth of risky and often fraudulent mortgage lending."

[QUOTE="GreySeal9"]

Stimulus might have left origins and be on the left side of economic theory, but it is now the accepted way of growing the economy and Republicans support it. That makes it centrist. The mainstream view, which is stimulus, is always centrist. Also, just because something is left doesn't mean it can't be centrist. It's only things that are far or extreme left that can't be centrist.

Whether the Heritage Foundation or Gingrich support in now is irrelevant. A plan that the right proposed to counter a genuinely far left plan is not far left. I don't see how that is up for debate.

Even if I give you the point on energy (which I don't), that's hardly enough to call someone a far leftist. :lol:

Whether your far right or not, I don't think you understand the meaning of centrist or far left.

I never said Obama wasn't a liberal, but he's not far left (it is possible for both liberals and conservatives to be centrists). To think he's far left is a stance absolutely divorced from reality.

airshocker

Republicans don't support it. If we did, there'd be more of it.

It's not irrelevant. Here's a great example: I used to be against gay marriage. Now I'm not. You can't rightly call me a bigot.

I don't need you to give me points on anything. My statements stand for themselves.

Considering you can't even tell when your politician is pretending to be something else in order to be politically expedient, I don't think you're in much of a position to comment on when somebody understands something.

Of course he's far left. Unfortunately you can't see for yourself because even if he does win the election, Republicans won't lose control of the house.

Yes, Republicans support stimulus. I don't really know what else to say. They might not support the kind of stimulus that Democrats do, but they do support some form of economic stimulus and it is absolutely the mainstream economic position, which alone makes it centrist. Centrist is just another way of saying "the mainstream position."

It is irrelevant and so is your stance on gay marriage. A plan that Republicans used to tout as the alternative to a leftist plan cannot be far left. That wouldn't make sense. The only reason Gingrich no longer supports the plan is because the Republican party has moved farther to the right.

The bolded statements are meaningless because you have not satisfactorily argued that Obama's policies are far left. I don't have to admit that Obama is pretending to be something he's not if you can't even explain why his policies are far left.

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]Then don't complain about the deficit.airshocker

Why not? Spending IS far too high, that's not in question. But the budget ratios are pretty good. Defense should take precedent over welfare because everyone in this country benefits from a strong military, not everyone benefits from welfare.

[QUOTE="imaps3fanboy"]Then don't complain about the deficit.airshocker

Why not? Spending IS far too high, that's not in question. But the budget ratios are pretty good. Defense should take precedent over welfare because everyone in this country benefits from a strong military, not everyone benefits from welfare.

I guess airshocker isn't going to respond to me?imaps3fanboy

Independent, no party affiliation.

Use to consider myself a Republican, but now I just call myself a fiscal conservative/social moderate because I can't stand the Republican establishment.

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

If you think those things are the fault of the democrats then you truly are a moron (except for getting people food stamps that need them, that tends to be a democratic thing. Keeping people poor enough that they need food stamps tends to be republican though) but I think we already knew that you were a moron.

airshocker

I'm the moron? :lol: The Clinton administration caused the housing bubble by deregulation. I'm not the one denying that.

Independent who has mainly libertarian views.

I am a Proud Liberal Democrat..

I guess airshocker isn't going to respond to me?imaps3fanboy

Believe it or not, I actually have to work for a living. I thought you would be mature enough to possibly figure that out without me needing to make a post announcing my departure.

American Federalism.