What Religion/Belief Do You Fit In?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Look, the point is it's, why the hell does it matter who it belongs to. Why the hell can't the Jews and Muslims just live together? Oh yeah, religion.

Nickman71

Pst...they are fighting over land.

People don't blow themselves up over land.

The religious extremists who partake in acts such as those are brainwashed by leaders with ulterior motives into believing that they are doing it for their god.

[QUOTE="Decessus"]

[QUOTE="_Marisa_"]Agnostic ftw :P_Marisa_

Agnostic atheist, or agnostic theist?

There is no in between. You either believe in God, or you don't. :) If you haven't made up your mind yet, then you don't believe in God so that would make you an atheist. Despite what many people would have you believe, this is nothing to be ashamed of.

[QUOTE="Nickman71"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Look, the point is it's, why the hell does it matter who it belongs to. Why the hell can't the Jews and Muslims just live together? Oh yeah, religion.

LJS9502_basic

Pst...they are fighting over land.

People don't blow themselves up over land.

Of course they do...history proves that.

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

Decessus

Their motivation was hate....and it's much deeper than a superficial religious disagreement.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Look, the point is it's, why the hell does it matter who it belongs to. Why the hell can't the Jews and Muslims just live together? Oh yeah, religion.

Decessus

Pst...they are fighting over land.

People don't blow themselves up over land.

Of course they do...history proves that.

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

Prediction of LJ's response: "It was their history..."
slinky6

Wrong again.....:lol:

[QUOTE="slinky6"]

Prediction of LJ's response: "It was their history..."
LJS9502_basic

Wrong again.....:lol:

Okay, so if religion isn't the cause of anything bad, but rather it's all human nature. Then aren't the supposed benefits of religion also purely human nature? slinky6

No

[QUOTE="slinky6"]Okay, so if religion isn't the cause of anything bad, but rather it's all human nature. Then aren't the supposed benefits of religion also purely human nature? LJS9502_basic

No

[QUOTE="Decessus"]

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

LJS9502_basic

Their motivation was hate....and it's much deeper than a superficial religious disagreement.

Perhaps, but you can't deny that religion was part of the motivation for what they did. Would they have done it even if religion weren't a factor? Who's to say?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Look, the point is it's, why the hell does it matter who it belongs to. Why the hell can't the Jews and Muslims just live together? Oh yeah, religion.

Decessus

Pst...they are fighting over land.

People don't blow themselves up over land.

Of course they do...history proves that.

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

[QUOTE="slinky6"]Okay, so if religion isn't the cause of anything bad, but rather it's all human nature. Then aren't the supposed benefits of religion also purely human nature? LJS9502_basic

No

So, if people do bad things in the name of religion, it's not really religion that is the cause. If they do good things in the name of religion, then religion is the cause?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

Decessus

Their motivation was hate....and it's much deeper than a superficial religious disagreement.

Perhaps, but you can't deny that religion was part of the motivation for what they did. Would they have done it even if religion weren't a factor? Who's to say?

I think they would have....I find it more cultural than religious...

[QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Look, the point is it's, why the hell does it matter who it belongs to. Why the hell can't the Jews and Muslims just live together? Oh yeah, religion.

greenprince

Pst...they are fighting over land.

People don't blow themselves up over land.

Of course they do...history proves that.

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="slinky6"]Okay, so if religion isn't the cause of anything bad, but rather it's all human nature. Then aren't the supposed benefits of religion also purely human nature? Decessus

No

So, if people do bad things in the name of religion, it's not really religion that is the cause. If they do good things in the name of religion, then religion is the cause?

[QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

LJS9502_basic

Their motivation was hate....and it's much deeper than a superficial religious disagreement.

Perhaps, but you can't deny that religion was part of the motivation for what they did. Would they have done it even if religion weren't a factor? Who's to say?

I think they would have....I find it more cultural than religious...

you changed teh sig!!! when did that happen?

No, in Islamic religion killing people especially Innocent bystanders is strictly punishable and frowned upon. Again those are select extremists that do not represent the whole religion. I've met people who have Islamic beliefs and the terrorists actions weren't justified and they were obviously influenced by a man that hated America rather than following his beliefs.greenprince

I never said they represent the whole religion. My point is that the people who flew those planes into the World Trade Center were motivated, at least in part, by religion.

So, if people do bad things in the name of religion, it's not really religion that is the cause. If they do good things in the name of religion, then religion is the cause?

Decessus

His question seems to be anti human nature. Survival is man's first instinct. Granted he will do what he can for those he loves...but those he doesn't? Not really. Altruism is not innate so much as something you become.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="slinky6"]Okay, so if religion isn't the cause of anything bad, but rather it's all human nature. Then aren't the supposed benefits of religion also purely human nature? slinky6

No

An example of what? There is no example...the answer was no.

[QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

LJS9502_basic

Their motivation was hate....and it's much deeper than a superficial religious disagreement.

Perhaps, but you can't deny that religion was part of the motivation for what they did. Would they have done it even if religion weren't a factor? Who's to say?

I think they would have....I find it more cultural than religious...

They may have attacked the United States in some way, but it's highly doubtful they would have committed suicide in the process. It takes an incredible motivation factor to override the natural instinct to survive. If they did not believe they were going to heaven for what they were doing, then what reason would they have to kill themselves in the process of doing it?

[QUOTE="slinky6"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="slinky6"]Okay, so if religion isn't the cause of anything bad, but rather it's all human nature. Then aren't the supposed benefits of religion also purely human nature? LJS9502_basic

No

An example of what? There is no example...the answer was no.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

Decessus

Their motivation was hate....and it's much deeper than a superficial religious disagreement.

Perhaps, but you can't deny that religion was part of the motivation for what they did. Would they have done it even if religion weren't a factor? Who's to say?

I think they would have....I find it more cultural than religious...

They may have attacked the United States in some way, but it's highly doubtful they would have committed suicide in the process. It takes an incredible motivation factor to override the natural instinct to survive. If they did not believe they were going to heaven for what they were doing, then what reason would they have to kill themselves in the process of doing it?

Exactly.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

Decessus

Their motivation was hate....and it's much deeper than a superficial religious disagreement.

Perhaps, but you can't deny that religion was part of the motivation for what they did. Would they have done it even if religion weren't a factor? Who's to say?

I think they would have....I find it more cultural than religious...

They may have attacked the United States in some way, but it's highly doubtful they would have committed suicide in the process. It takes an incredible motivation factor to override the natural instinct to survive. If they did not believe they were going to heaven for what they were doing, then what reason would they have to kill themselves in the process of doing it?

Kamikaze pilots did.....

[QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Look, the point is it's, why the hell does it matter who it belongs to. Why the hell can't the Jews and Muslims just live together? Oh yeah, religion.

slinky6

Pst...they are fighting over land.

People don't blow themselves up over land.

Of course they do...history proves that.

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

[QUOTE="Decessus"]

So, if people do bad things in the name of religion, it's not really religion that is the cause. If they do good things in the name of religion, then religion is the cause?

LJS9502_basic

His question seems to be anti human nature. Survival is man's first instinct. Granted he will do what he can for those he loves...but those he doesn't? Not really. Altruism is not innate so much as something you become.

I don't see what was anti human nature about his question. Your position seems to be that war, killing, and other atrocities are the result of other factors besides religion. He merely asked that if this was the case, then why isn't charity, love, compassion, and other virtures also the result of factors besides religion?

You've got to explain why not. Despite what you think, it's not self-explanatory.
slinky6

You asked for an answer...I gave it. I don't have to explain it any further though if mans instinct is greed/selfishness...then learning to not be greedy/selfish would be learned. Not innate.

[QUOTE="slinky6"][QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Look, the point is it's, why the hell does it matter who it belongs to. Why the hell can't the Jews and Muslims just live together? Oh yeah, religion.

greenprince

Pst...they are fighting over land.

People don't blow themselves up over land.

Of course they do...history proves that.

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

[QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

LJS9502_basic

Their motivation was hate....and it's much deeper than a superficial religious disagreement.

Perhaps, but you can't deny that religion was part of the motivation for what they did. Would they have done it even if religion weren't a factor? Who's to say?

I think they would have....I find it more cultural than religious...

They may have attacked the United States in some way, but it's highly doubtful they would have committed suicide in the process. It takes an incredible motivation factor to override the natural instinct to survive. If they did not believe they were going to heaven for what they were doing, then what reason would they have to kill themselves in the process of doing it?

Kamikaze pilots did.....

Kamikaze pilots were influenced by Shinto beliefs...

[QUOTE="greenprince"]No, in Islamic religion killing people especially Innocent bystanders is strictly punishable and frowned upon. Again those are select extremists that do not represent the whole religion. I've met people who have Islamic beliefs and the terrorists actions weren't justified and they were obviously influenced by a man that hated America rather than following his beliefs.Decessus

I never said they represent the whole religion. My point is that the people who flew those planes into the World Trade Center were motivated, at least in part, by religion.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

So, if people do bad things in the name of religion, it's not really religion that is the cause. If they do good things in the name of religion, then religion is the cause?

Decessus

His question seems to be anti human nature. Survival is man's first instinct. Granted he will do what he can for those he loves...but those he doesn't? Not really. Altruism is not innate so much as something you become.

I don't see what was anti human nature about his question. Your position seems to be that war, killing, and other atrocities are the result of other factors besides religion. He merely asked that if this was the case, then why isn't charity, love, compassion, and other virtures also the result of factors besides religion?

Human nature is not altruistic. Survival of the fitest....etc. Selflessness is not innate.

Kamikaze pilots were influenced by Shinto beliefs...

Nickman71

By their country...it's an honor to die for home.

[QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="slinky6"][QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Look, the point is it's, why the hell does it matter who it belongs to. Why the hell can't the Jews and Muslims just live together? Oh yeah, religion.

slinky6

Pst...they are fighting over land.

People don't blow themselves up over land.

Of course they do...history proves that.

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

[QUOTE="slinky6"]You've got to explain why not. Despite what you think, it's not self-explanatory.
LJS9502_basic

You asked for an answer...I gave it. I don't have to explain it any further though if mans instinct is greed/selfishness...then learning to not be greedy/selfish would be learned. Not innate.

[QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

So, if people do bad things in the name of religion, it's not really religion that is the cause. If they do good things in the name of religion, then religion is the cause?

LJS9502_basic

His question seems to be anti human nature. Survival is man's first instinct. Granted he will do what he can for those he loves...but those he doesn't? Not really. Altruism is not innate so much as something you become.

I don't see what was anti human nature about his question. Your position seems to be that war, killing, and other atrocities are the result of other factors besides religion. He merely asked that if this was the case, then why isn't charity, love, compassion, and other virtures also the result of factors besides religion?

Human nature is not altruistic. Survival of the fitest....etc. Selflessness is not innate.

Altruism 'in-built' in humans

[QUOTE="slinky6"][QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="slinky6"][QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Look, the point is it's, why the hell does it matter who it belongs to. Why the hell can't the Jews and Muslims just live together? Oh yeah, religion.

greenprince

Pst...they are fighting over land.

People don't blow themselves up over land.

Of course they do...history proves that.

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="slinky6"]You've got to explain why not. Despite what you think, it's not self-explanatory.
slinky6

You asked for an answer...I gave it. I don't have to explain it any further though if mans instinct is greed/selfishness...then learning to not be greedy/selfish would be learned. Not innate.

Fighting over land...is property and greed. Get that straight. If I want to take over your property...it doesn't matter to me what you believe or don't believe. I want the L A N D.

[QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Decessus"]

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

LJS9502_basic

Their motivation was hate....and it's much deeper than a superficial religious disagreement.

Perhaps, but you can't deny that religion was part of the motivation for what they did. Would they have done it even if religion weren't a factor? Who's to say?

I think they would have....I find it more cultural than religious...

They may have attacked the United States in some way, but it's highly doubtful they would have committed suicide in the process. It takes an incredible motivation factor to override the natural instinct to survive. If they did not believe they were going to heaven for what they were doing, then what reason would they have to kill themselves in the process of doing it?

Kamikaze pilots did.....

The Japanese were also very close to losing the war against the United States. I don't know very much about Japanese culture so I can't really say for sure what their motivation was for crashing their planes into ships. I believe the Japanese place a very high value on the concept of honor, and there is great honor in a person dying for their country.

I'm not suggesting that religion is the only factor that could cause somebody to commit a suicide attack, but I think it's a pretty established fact that the World Trade Center bombers were motivated by the Islamic religion.

[QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Kamikaze pilots were influenced by Shinto beliefs...

LJS9502_basic

By their country...it's an honor to die for home.

That level of patriotism, where the Emperor is elevated to god-like status, pretty much is a religion.

[QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Kamikaze pilots were influenced by Shinto beliefs...

LJS9502_basic

By their country...it's an honor to die for home.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Kamikaze pilots were influenced by Shinto beliefs...

slinky6

By their country...it's an honor to die for home.

Where did I say it was right to do that? Do you make up your own interpretations? I stated a fact...

That level of patriotism, where the Emperor is elevated to god-like status, pretty much is a religion.

Nickman71

Well...if you want to make the scopeso broad...following a sports team is a religion. So if you get drunk at a game and drive home and crash...it's your teams fault.

[QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="slinky6"][QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="slinky6"][QUOTE="greenprince"][QUOTE="Decessus"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Look, the point is it's, why the hell does it matter who it belongs to. Why the hell can't the Jews and Muslims just live together? Oh yeah, religion.

slinky6

Pst...they are fighting over land.

People don't blow themselves up over land.

Of course they do...history proves that.

Would you disagree that the people who flew the planes into the World Trade Center were religiously motivated?

[QUOTE="Nickman71"]

That level of patriotism, where the Emperor is elevated to god-like status, pretty much is a religion.

LJS9502_basic

Well...if you want to make the scopeso broad...following a sports team is a religion. So if you get drunk at a game and drive home and crash...it's your teams fault.

In that time in Japan, honor became a religion. It took precedence over all else, even your life. The same can be said for religion. The same CAN NOT be said for supporting a sports team.

[QUOTE="slinky6"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Nickman71"]

Kamikaze pilots were influenced by Shinto beliefs...

LJS9502_basic

By their country...it's an honor to die for home.

Where did I say it was right to do that? Do you make up your own interpretations? I stated a fact...

In that time in Japan, honor became a religion. It took precedence over all else, even your life. The same can be said for religion. The same CAN NOT be said for supporting a sports team.

Nickman71

Of course it can. People believe in their team and athletes. Just look at how forgiving they are of crimes athletes commit. Because they play a sport they are elevated above mere mortals such as us. They aren't guilty. People don't miss games...they plan their life around them. They riot after games...fight fans from other teams...memorize stats....spend days talking about the game. Yep..it's a religion.