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Vietnam and Korean, simply because it's amusing watching/reading about 'The world's superpower' not minding their own business, and then getting owned my China-men hiding in holes.FightingfanTrue there. America is not what it makes itself out to be...........
Vietnam and Korean, simply because it's amusing watching/reading about 'The world's superpower' not minding their own business, and then getting owned my China-men hiding in holes.Fightingfan
It doesn't sound like you have a very comprehensive understanding of either conflict, if you're going to say things as silly as that.
[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]Vietnam and Korean, simply because it's amusing watching/reading about 'The world's superpower' not minding their own business, and then getting owned my China-men hiding in holes.jetpower3
It doesn't sound like you have a very comprehensive understanding of either conflict, if you're going to say things as silly as that.
Korea was w/e, but Vietnam was just pathetic.[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]Vietnam and Korean, simply because it's amusing watching/reading about 'The world's superpower' not minding their own business, and then getting owned my China-men hiding in holes.jetpower3
It doesn't sound like you have a very comprehensive understanding of either conflict, if you're going to say things as silly as that.
:lol: the Americans never even made it out of South Vietnam, they were getting their asses kicked so bad[QUOTE="jetpower3"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"]Vietnam and Korean, simply because it's amusing watching/reading about 'The world's superpower' not minding their own business, and then getting owned my China-men hiding in holes.l4dak47
It doesn't sound like you have a very comprehensive understanding of either conflict, if you're going to say things as silly as that.
Korea was w/e, but Vietnam was just pathetic.Be that as it may, it was hardly a matter of poorly equipped and trained underdogs defeating a superpower. Don't forget they had their own superpower backing, many years of prior experience in guerilla warfare, and they still didn't succeed until the U.S. left.
Korea was w/e, but Vietnam was just pathetic.[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="jetpower3"]
It doesn't sound like you have a very comprehensive understanding of either conflict, if you're going to say things as silly as that.
jetpower3
Be that as it may, it was hardly a matter of poorly equipped and trained underdogs defeating a superpower. Don't forget they had their own superpower backing, many years of prior experience in guerilla warfare, and they still didn't succeed until the U.S. left.
I'm aware of that and I'm sure the U.S. was as well whcih is why it's pathetic how the war ended.[QUOTE="67gt500"]WWII... it's interesting to see just how little we've learned from it..l4dak47What do you mean? If you're lucky enough to be able to talk face to face with WWII veterans (and they're actually willing to talk about what they went through) you realize very quickly that they see conditions evolving in the world today that could very easily escalate into another global conflict... history repeating itself... and the Old Boys are fond of pointing out that age-old saying -- that those who refuse to learn from the lessons of the past are forever condemned to repeat them...
[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="67gt500"]WWII... it's interesting to see just how little we've learned from it..67gt500What do you mean? If you're lucky enough to be able to talk face to face with WWII veterans (and they're actually willing to talk about what they went through) you realize very quickly that they see conditions evolving in the world today that could very easily escalate into another global conflict... history repeating itself... and the Old Boys are fond of pointing out that age-old saying -- that those who refuse to learn from the lessons of the past are forever condemned to repeat them... Mhm. I would have to disagree for as long as there are nuclear bombs in the world, we will never see a WW again. All we'll see is small wars much like Iraq or Afghanistan. However, if we somehow develop an effective counter to the nuclear bombs and render them almost useless, then we might see a WW again.
Before it was the Crusades (earlier Crusades were more interesting but later on, it was "eh"). Recently, the Korean War. The Chosin Reservoir, according to veterans, was a nightmare for our forces.
[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]Vietnam and Korean, simply because it's amusing watching/reading about 'The world's superpower' not minding their own business, and then getting owned my China-men hiding in holes.jetpower3
It doesn't sound like you have a very comprehensive understanding of either conflict, if you're going to say things as silly as that.
The whole point of the Korean War was due to the division of Korea, America wanted to rid Communism, barely made it to North Korea, and then lost(which is why North Korea is still under communistic rule).The Vietnam war was total ass rape, Gorilla tactics AKA campers destroyed the American troops, tons of U.S troops died and they had to withdrawl, doesn't sound like a win to me.
If you're referring to my word choice, *Face palm* that's obviously satire.
*And technically the Korean war is still going on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chosin_Reservoir .Before it was the Crusades (earlier Crusades were more interesting but later on, it was "eh"). Recently, the Korean War. The Chosin Reservoir, according to veterans, was a nightmare for our forces.
leviathan91
Korea was w/e, but Vietnam was just pathetic.[QUOTE="l4dak47"][QUOTE="jetpower3"]
It doesn't sound like you have a very comprehensive understanding of either conflict, if you're going to say things as silly as that.
jetpower3
Be that as it may, it was hardly a matter of poorly equipped and trained underdogs defeating a superpower. Don't forget they had their own superpower backing, many years of prior experience in guerilla warfare, and they still didn't succeed until the U.S. left.
True, but they had Russia, and China along with.....,Japan I want to say?[QUOTE="jetpower3"]
[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]Vietnam and Korean, simply because it's amusing watching/reading about 'The world's superpower' not minding their own business, and then getting owned my China-men hiding in holes.Fightingfan
It doesn't sound like you have a very comprehensive understanding of either conflict, if you're going to say things as silly as that.
The whole point of the Korean War was due to the division of Korea, America wanted to rid Communism, barely made it to North Korea, and then lost(which is why North Korea is still under communistic rule).The Vietnam war was total ass rape, Gorilla tactics AKA campers destroyed the American troops, tons of U.S troops died and they had to withdrawl, doesn't sound like a win to me.
If you're referring to my word choice, *Face palm* that's obviously satire.
*And technically the Korean war is still going on.
at the risk of sounding flippant, based on kill / death ratio US definitely 'won'. That said though in both cases the ultimate goals fell short of American goals, and in that sense alone is it is a loss. Korean peninsula is still the one very hot tension spot in East Asia precisely because what happened in 1953, was never fully solved. and Vietnam ended 2 years after America withdrew, with North Vietnam conquering Saigon and ending the split between the two, and today we now live with the 'Communist' regime of Vietnam. this is why wars and history are important. because their after effects affect generations after the peace treaties and ceasefires have been signed.[QUOTE="jetpower3"]
[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]Vietnam and Korean, simply because it's amusing watching/reading about 'The world's superpower' not minding their own business, and then getting owned my China-men hiding in holes.Fightingfan
It doesn't sound like you have a very comprehensive understanding of either conflict, if you're going to say things as silly as that.
The whole point of the Korean War was due to the division of Korea, America wanted to rid Communism, barely made it to North Korea, and then lost(which is why North Korea is still under communistic rule).The Vietnam war was total ass rape, Gorilla tactics AKA campers destroyed the American troops, tons of U.S troops died and they had to withdrawl, doesn't sound like a win to me.
If you're referring to my word choice, *Face palm* that's obviously satire.
*And technically the Korean war is still going on.
It isn't a matter of win/loss to me, I don't care about that sort of connotation. I've seen that kind of mindless misrepresentation countless times, satire or not.
North Korea was almost completely defeated, and if it wasn't for the sheer numbers of Chinese troops crossing the border to reinforce them, N.K. probably wouldn't exist as a country today.
Vietnam was more of a matter of "not worth it" than it was any form of consistent tactical defeat and rout. Yes, the U.S. lost some battles, but so did the opposing side (notably, they were not able to inflict the kind of scale of defeat they did to the French at Dien Bien Phu in 1954, which definitely led to their withdrawal). And while you claim "tons of U.S. troops died", that belies the fact that tons of opposing troops also died (actually many more). It was more due to their determination and tenacity through guerrilla tactics than anything else. Although don't forget who ultimately routed the ARVN in 1974-1975.
The whole point of the Korean War was due to the division of Korea, America wanted to rid Communism, barely made it to North Korea, and then lost(which is why North Korea is still under communistic rule).[QUOTE="Fightingfan"]
[QUOTE="jetpower3"]
It doesn't sound like you have a very comprehensive understanding of either conflict, if you're going to say things as silly as that.
SaudiFury
The Vietnam war was total ass rape, Gorilla tactics AKA campers destroyed the American troops, tons of U.S troops died and they had to withdrawl, doesn't sound like a win to me.
If you're referring to my word choice, *Face palm* that's obviously satire.
*And technically the Korean war is still going on.
at the risk of sounding flippant, based on kill / death ratio US definitely 'won'. That said though in both cases the ultimate goals fell short of American goals, and in that sense alone is it is a loss. Korean peninsula is still the one very hot tension spot in East Asia precisely because what happened in 1953, was never fully solved. and Vietnam ended 2 years after America withdrew, with North Vietnam conquering Saigon and ending the split between the two, and today we now live with the 'Communist' regime of Vietnam. this is why wars and history are important. because their after effects affect generations after the peace treaties and ceasefires have been signed. +1,000 for this answer.The goal of the Korean War was to repel the Communist invaders north of the 48th parallel which we did. We pushed them even further until the North Koreans had the Chinese to help them repel The American forces right at the 48th parallel. That's when both sides entered a ceasefire which still continues on. So technically, the Korean War is still going on with China helping North Korea and the US helping South Korea. So basically, we achieved the goal but didn't win the war.
As for Vietnam, I maintain that it was winnable but due to policies of the LBJ and Nixon Presidency as well as the political squabbling between the Republicans and Democrats, it was impossible. Also the support for the war was at a low point with constant news of casualties and grim news that Vietnam wasn't winnable (which was BS). So we did lose the war. We retreated, hoping that South Vietnam would defend itself but, in the end, South Vietnam folded and Vietnam was lost to the Communists. So yeah, I think we did lose that war.
./p>jetpower3True, but you can't honestly use K/D to decide the purpose of a war, if that was the case America would always win because of the draft, legally every male 18+ is a soldier. I'm simply going by the purpose of the war, America failed, and did not win, which I mean they didn't accomplish their mission.
Nonfiction: Greco-Persian Wars, Peloponnesian War. Fiction: War of the Jewels, War of the Ring. And all that stuff that happened in the Second Age too.Laihendi
I remember writing a paper on the Peloponnesian War. It was about how Sparta managed to achieve victory by subverting the Delian League through causing a split in loyalty and achieving dominance in the sea through Persia's generous charity to Sparta and her allies.
I could be wrong since it's been awhile I studied the war. Also, it was during my Freshman year. :P
[QUOTE="jetpower3"][QUOTE="Fightingfan"]Vietnam and Korean, simply because it's amusing watching/reading about 'The world's superpower' not minding their own business, and then getting owned my China-men hiding in holes.Kevlar101
It doesn't sound like you have a very comprehensive understanding of either conflict, if you're going to say things as silly as that.
:lol: the Americans never even made it out of South Vietnam, they were getting their asses kicked so bad Our goal was never to invade the north. We could have crossed into the north plenty of times, which I'm sure we did on many occasions.[QUOTE="jetpower3"]./p>FightingfanTrue, but you can't honestly use K/D to decide the purpose of a war, if that was the case America would always win because of the draft, legally every male 18+ is a soldier. I'm simply going by the purpose of the war, America failed, and did not win, which I mean they didn't accomplish their mission.
The war which interests me the most would be the Greco-Persian Wars, specifically the Battle of Thermopylae.
Second would be WW II, and the Spanish Civil War.
You just have to live and learn (or not, based on the last 10+ years of war).jetpower3Sad, but true. Which is why I find the whole war in Afghanistan laughable, there's no winning 'the war on terror' America will not 'win' that one, that's for sure.
Either World War II or Genghis Khan's conquering of Asia.juden41
Have you ever read Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford?
[QUOTE="leviathan91"][QUOTE="juden41"]Either World War II or Genghis Khan's conquering of Asia.juden41
Have you ever read Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford?
Nope. Is it good?It was one of the books I had to read for AP World but it was a very good book. It talks about how Genghis Khan's conquests influenced the modern world. Wikipedia can explain it better. Also, there's a movie called Mongol which I thought was also good.
A 3 way toss up between:
WW1
The Winter War (Finlands defense against Russia, I do suppose you could consider this part of WW2)
WW2
Basicly I like how the rules of war changed, and how the world struggeled to make these things work as intended, these were the palce modern tactics saw their birth (more added as things went, but armored warfare, artillery and completely disreguard for life) it was also what I consider the most horrible wars in history shpoting sides that were equally trained and outfitted, where pride and worth of a soldier were distilled down to nothing but a cog in the wheels.
I have most interest in those wars, mostly due to how horrible the weaponery was, and how "cold" it became.
Vietnam I have more of an "iffy" relationship with, and would be the 4th, due to the growing role of journalism, and a change in the mindset of people. Were also interesting because it were more or less the battlefield of superpowers. It signaled the end of conventional wars as we knew them, an gave birth to wars fight almost entirely gurillia. (Does not help that It is likely the most tragic war Weve had, where one side were pretty much forced into it, the other side used as a puppet for another superpower, shows how much damage a few undelivered letters can do.
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