What will win atheism or religion?

Seems to me that religion in European society is becoming more irrelevant and even less believable by each passing decade (unless you live in the vatican :D). Especially in it's approach to morals and socially acceptable behavior the human race has evolved far beyond the morals of the bible.

Religion looks like its slowly fading away. But I don't think that it will ever disappear compltely

Whoever wins, we loose.

In the sense that the world will either wholly believe one way or another, religion will win. Read Warhammer 40K (specifically, the Horus Heresy) for details. If you prove that there is no God, by doing so you have given people faith that all things can be explained. They will look to you for those answers and then you will become the new "God". People, as a whole, must always have faith to deal with the truly grusome things in life.

Religion looks like its slowly fading away. But I don't think that it will ever disappear compltely

hip-hop-cola2

Why does either have to win? JML897

Yep i think so for the human race to advance and pull together. Different faiths certainly cant work things out between themselves. Some are none to happy about free speech, science and evolution. May take 1000 years could take 10000 years (hope we make it this far), may not happen at all but imo i think the human race is hampered by religion.

Am I the only one who laughed because of this title. The religious leaders of the world are losing more and more power every day but that doesn't mean that the total amount of "religious" people are diminishing... I'd like to see a link to that fact. There will never be an end to this debate... only way that would happen would be if all the countries in the world passed laws against religion (not even sure if that will stop it) or if God stepped down to Earth to say hello (not even sure if that will convince the doubters)...Hungry_bunny

No facts to show! I did say "it seems to me" don't think any government is going to do a survey every 10 years on who's religious and who's not. Don't think in a free secular society there will ever be a law banning religion. The only case i could think of for that would be something like banning Sharia law where religious intolerance goes against human rights.

Seems to me that religion in European society is becoming more irrelevant and even less believable by each passing decade (unless you live in the vatican :D). Especially in it's approach to morals and socially acceptable behavior the human race has evolved far beyond the morals of the bible.

duncancameron23

I think the world is stuck with religion.

The good morals of thebible or any other holly books still have a place in this world but all through the ages Religion has destroyed the morals they have been trying to teach by not following them themselves. This is a big reason why some people hate religion. This makes some people stop believing in got or others still believe in god but not religion.

Christian including the vatican have been fighting and killing people for hundred of years just because they support a slightly different veiw of jesus or to gain power. What happen to i shall not kill.

The thing that Religion has goton it side is that people have a fear of death. They look forward to the end of there life and it is easier to believe in a religion than it is to believe that it just ends.

the human race has evolved far beyond the morals of the bible.duncancameron23

Religion's going down! JustPlainLucas

I am not interested in reducing spirituality to "battles" or to "the last one standing wins" situations.

"Win"? What are we playing?AirGuitarist87

If God exists he will forever be in the minds and hearts of believers. If God does not exist then he will exist in the imagination of minds either forever or for many more generations. [QUOTE="duncancameron23"]the human race has evolved far beyond the morals of the bible.mindstorm

Not sure that suicide has anything to do with morals. It would be awful for family and friends but in it's self it's not evil

I am not interested in reducing spirituality to "battles" or to "the last one standing wins" situations.

Teenaged

Fence sitter ;)

Whats the battle and what would be won by winning?

SEANMCAD

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

I am not interested in reducing spirituality to "battles" or to "the last one standing wins" situations.

duncancameron23

Fence sitter ;)

Labels are not my favourite thing. I am not even close to deciding, and I don't think that one HAS TO DECIDE. I am just being sincere to myself and accept the fact that we will never know for sure in this life (if there is an after life).

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"]"Win"? What are we playing?Genetic_Code

If God exists he will forever be in the minds and hearts of believers. If God does not exist then he will exist in the imagination of minds either forever or for many more generations. [QUOTE="duncancameron23"]the human race has evolved far beyond the morals of the bible.mindstorm

Look at ages where the bible and religion dominated everyday life to see if today morals is any better.

The morals of some Catholic or Protestant leaders in the UK history didn't stop them from murdering thousands or million of people just because they support a different religion. Same goes with the Vatican. How many people have they killed in the name of power.

Woman used to be burned or hurt for minor thing like showing a little bit of flesh or talking to a man thats not her husband. Plus woman were basically classed as second class citizens.

The church no longer hand out religious pardons to criminals including murders just because these people could afford to pay the church enough money. Thats a massive moral difference.

Priest represent their religions. So tell me where the morals are when a priest rapes a kidin his care then when he gets caught he gets no punishment and just moved to a different church.

The pope recently said people shouldn't use condoms. This was in regard to using condoms to stop the fight of Aids. He would rather follow some obscure beleif than facing up to reality that people are not going to stop having sex before marriage and to save lifes people have to use condoms.

After saying all that i still think the basic moral messages in the bible area good thingbut religions have abused these morals over the years toa point that there moralscan be no where nearpositive.

[QUOTE="mindstorm"]If God exists he will forever be in the minds and hearts of believers. If God does not exist then he will exist in the imagination of minds either forever or for many more generations. [QUOTE="duncancameron23"]the human race has evolved far beyond the morals of the bible.campbell1874

Look at ages where the bible and religion dominated everyday life to see if today morals is any better.

The morals of some Catholic or Protestant leaders in the UK history didn't stop them from murdering thousands or million of people just because they support a different religion. Same goes with the Vatican. How many people have they killed in the name of power.

Woman used to be burned or hurt for minor thing like showing a little bit of flesh or talking to a man thats not her husband. Plus woman were basically classed as second class citizens.

The church no longer hand out religious pardons to criminals including murders just because these people could afford to pay the church enough money. Thats a massive moral difference.

Priest represent their religions. So tell me where the morals are when a priest rapes a kidin his care then when he gets caught he gets no punishment and just moved to a different church.

The pope recently said people shouldn't use condoms. This was in regard to using condoms to stop the fight of Aids. He would rather follow some obscure beleif than facing up to reality that people are not going to stop having sex before marriage and to save lifes people have to use condoms.

After saying all that i still think the basic moral messages in the bible area good thingbut religions have abused these morals over the years toa point that there moralscan be no where nearpositive.

Unless God proves his existence I can only see atheistic views growing in 'popularity'. But as for a 'winner' that seems like an oxymoron...spazzx625

I second this.

No facts to show! I did say "it seems to me" don't think any government is going to do a survey every 10 years on who's religious and who's not. Don't think in a free secular society there will ever be a law banning religion. The only case i could think of for that would be something like banning Sharia law where religious intolerance goes against human rights.

duncancameron23

It's not a win-lose deal. :|

That being said, the concept of God will never, ever go away.

[QUOTE="clembo1990"]To deny some things transcend human comprehension in the universe is not only unatheistic it's just dumb. That is unless you are a nihilist, in which case I shall redicule you. Religion can die for all I care. But reason shouldn't take over as the new dogma, humans aren't THAT good yet at explaining everything.mindstorm

Statements such as "...there is only one god and Allah is his name" and "In the beginning there was...", without any empirical evidence are just statements to me. It doesn't make much sense to believe one over the other or any at all. That's where reason comes in, to be scepticle is a survival tool, I'm glad I have it otherwise I'd be a sorry and gullible little urchin.

Religion is anything but rational by today's standards. If it was fully rational today there would be complete ommissions from Genesis and up. It would say that The Flood was most likely the formation of the Mediteranian sea or that the world is older than 6000 years. When it was written they were working with what was common knowledge at the time, just like the Greeks who talked about their gods as if they were "just there" the dogma had been bought into, regardless of any metaphorical gain that could be had it was simply heracy not to believe it was literal.

Hmph I feel I'm treading on all-too-familiar ground here. I think I already discussed this with you lol. And what I just wrote only adds to what I've said before. Reason isn't great but it helps you get to the bottom of things. Cue Sherlock Holmes.

Religion is anything but rational by today's standards. If it was fully rational today there would be complete ommissions from Genesis and up.

clembo1990

That would be antithetical to reason. Just changing these documents around for the sake of modern popularity is not rational, by today's standards or yesterday's. That would be like changing parts of Plato's works because they reference gods and things we know not to be true today.

[QUOTE="clembo1990"]

Religion is anything but rational by today's standards. If it was fully rational today there would be complete ommissions from Genesis and up.

Theokhoth

That would be antithetical to reason. Just changing these documents around for the sake of modern popularity is not rational, by today's standards or yesterday's. That would be like changing parts of Plato's works because they reference gods and things we know not to be true today.

Anyway I too think that the Bible shouldn't be altered, but there should be an alteration to the way we perceive it and receive it and as to what place it holds in todays society.

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="clembo1990"]

Religion is anything but rational by today's standards. If it was fully rational today there would be complete ommissions from Genesis and up.

Teenaged

That would be antithetical to reason. Just changing these documents around for the sake of modern popularity is not rational, by today's standards or yesterday's. That would be like changing parts of Plato's works because they reference gods and things we know not to be true today.

Anyway I too think that the Bible shouldn't be altered, but there should be an alteration to the way we perceive it and receive it and as to what place it holds in todays society.

Entire justice systems have been founded based on the works of Plato. Some believe Hegel got his ideas from the Republic, though that's probably not true.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

That would be antithetical to reason. Just changing these documents around for the sake of modern popularity is not rational, by today's standards or yesterday's. That would be like changing parts of Plato's works because they reference gods and things we know not to be true today.

Theokhoth

Anyway I too think that the Bible shouldn't be altered, but there should be an alteration to the way we perceive it and receive it and as to what place it holds in todays society.

Entire justice systems have been founded based on the works of Plato. Some believe Hegel got his ideas from the Republic, though that's probably not true.

You can't support ideas by saying "Well, Plato said it", just as much you can't say "Because the Bible says so".