What's so great about joining the military after highschool?

So if you had the money for college right out of high school, you would still join to "serve your country"? :lol: i think not...:|CoreoVII

it is relevant, and I have already argued why. Dasacant

:roll: So I suppose breathing is honourable because it is necessary, right?

[QUOTE="Dasacant"]it is relevant, and I have already argued why. Funky_Llama

:roll: So I suppose breathing is honourable because it is necessary, right?

What kind of attitude is that towards those who died in the name of our country? Maybe, they didn't fight for honor or our liberties but I think it's pathetic to degenerate ones service as being unhonourable.

[QUOTE="Dasacant"]it is relevant, and I have already argued why. Funky_Llama

:roll: So I suppose breathing is honourable because it is necessary, right?

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Dasacant"]it is relevant, and I have already argued why. Dasacant

:roll: So I suppose breathing is honourable because it is necessary, right?

It's called making a strawman, as in attacking the weaker argument or in your case the "necessary" thing.

It's frowned upon so hes not making himself look good by doing that. ;)

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Dasacant"]it is relevant, and I have already argued why. Dasacant

:roll: So I suppose breathing is honourable because it is necessary, right?

It's not even part of it, as I have just demonstrated.

you have a problem with people serving our country?

that makes no sense whatsoever.

[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Dasacant"]it is relevant, and I have already argued why. Funky_Llama

:roll: So I suppose breathing is honourable because it is necessary, right?

It's not even part of it, as I have just demonstrated.

[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Dasacant"]it is relevant, and I have already argued why. VoodooGamer

:roll: So I suppose breathing is honourable because it is necessary, right?

It's called making a strawman, as in attacking the weaker argument or in your case the "necessary" thing.

It's frowned upon so hes not making himself look good by doing that. ;)

So, he argues that one of the reasons that it is honourable is that it is necessary. I represent his argument as him arguing that one of the reasons it is honourable is that it is necessary. And this is a straw man how? :lol: I appreciate that strawman is something of a buzzword on these forums, but at least use it correctly.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Dasacant"]it is relevant, and I have already argued why. Dasacant

:roll: So I suppose breathing is honourable because it is necessary, right?

It's not even part of it, as I have just demonstrated.

Why not? Please, find the flaw in my reductio ad absurdum.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Dasacant"]it is relevant, and I have already argued why. Dasacant

:roll: So I suppose breathing is honourable because it is necessary, right?

And that is actually how I represented your argument. I never claimed it was the only reason. Try again. ;)

Don't be suckered in by the benefits, our country is built to put us citizens in debt.

[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Dasacant"]it is relevant, and I have already argued why. Funky_Llama

:roll: So I suppose breathing is honourable because it is necessary, right?

It's not even part of it, as I have just demonstrated.

Why not? Please, find the flaw in my reductio ad absurdum.

So, he argues that one of the reasons that it is honourable is that it is necessary. I represent his argument as him arguing that one of the reasons it is honourable is that it is necessary.Funky_Llama

You're attacking the weaker of his arguments. His entire point is that sacrificing your life for another is honourable. You have yet to prove him wrong and attacking his weaker points doesn't make you look right.

And this is a straw man how? :lol: I appreciate that strawman is something of a buzzword on these forums, but at least use it correctly.

Funky

I used it correctly, how did I not?

I don't see any appeal in the military. I guess if it's a last resort and you have no other way of making money. I'm honestly tired of the military, soldiers walk around here all the time and they are so arrogant and smug and act like they've done something for me. The one's I've come into contact with have a "respect me" vibe coming off of them, it's kind of like the same vibe the police give off when giving you a ticket, but these soldiers have no authority over you whatsoever.

I guess it's a side effect of how this country worships soldiers, it's quite sickening. I'll probably even be flamed for just saying this, but I don't care. It's the truth that people in the U.S. need to get over this love affair with the military and soldiers need to realize they are paid for what they do and aren't protecting my freedoms when attacking poor third world countries that pose no threat to us.

[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Dasacant"]it is relevant, and I have already argued why. Funky_Llama

:roll: So I suppose breathing is honourable because it is necessary, right?

And that is actually how I represented your argument. I never claimed it was the only reason. Try again. ;)

And that is actually how I represented your argument. I never claimed it was the only reason. Try again. ;)

Funky_Llama

That's the crux of your argument. You can't represent an argument that consists of many points by one point.

to get free hot dogs >.> thats what I see at my school

Serving and dieing for ones country is not honorable.. Its upon the beliefs that you were standing towards on why you died is honorable.. I suppose we are to consider the peasents during the Crusades that went on the warpath due to their blind devotion towards the pope as honorable?

or the men conscripted by the Russian Military during WW2 and basically were herded to the combat zone and died were honorable and not seen as tragedies?

There is no honor in serving a tyrant in the warlords in Africa who controls one of the countries. They do it to survive..

Or the Japanese who died in the occupation as china (as well as the abuse of China's citizens) as honorable.. Afterall they did die for their country.

In the end it doesn't seem you make a difference between the people who actually uphold and believe in certain thigns and why tehy are fighting.. To people who are manipulated.

I see this time and time again. Kids that graduated the previous year come in, and visit the school and they are in marine uniforms. They have joined the marines. What are the advantages of this? How does a drill sargent yelling at you 24/7 better than a normal 40 hour work week or college:?Raged_Soulja

Serving and dieing for ones country is not honorable.. Its upon the beliefs that you were standing towards on why you died is honorable.. I suppose we are to consider the peasents during the Crusades that went on the warpath due to their blind devotion towards the pope as honorable?

or the men conscripted by the Russian Military during WW2 and basically were herded to the combat zone and died were honorable and not seen as tragedies?

There is no honor in serving a tyrant in the warlords in Africa who controls one of the countries. They do it to survive..

Or the Japanese who died in the occupation as china (as well as the abuse of China's citizens) as honorable.. Afterall they did die for their country.

In the end it doesn't seem you make a difference between the people who actually uphold and believe in certain thigns and why tehy are fighting.. To people who are manipulated.

sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

Serving and dieing for ones country is not honorable.. Its upon the beliefs that you were standing towards on why you died is honorable.. I suppose we are to consider the peasents during the Crusades that went on the warpath due to their blind devotion towards the pope as honorable?

or the men conscripted by the Russian Military during WW2 and basically were herded to the combat zone and died were honorable and not seen as tragedies?

There is no honor in serving a tyrant in the warlords in Africa who controls one of the countries. They do it to survive..

Or the Japanese who died in the occupation as china (as well as the abuse of China's citizens) as honorable.. Afterall they did die for their country.

In the end it doesn't seem you make a difference between the people who actually uphold and believe in certain thigns and why tehy are fighting.. To people who are manipulated.

Dasacant

The soviets were no better then the African warlords.. :| they were both forced into conscription and if they refused, died.. As I say again you have yet to give any real reason why these people deserve honor.. It seems like that if you just listen to your country and be manipulated, no matter what that country is doing, you are deemed honorable..

And on top of that you even said that a tyranical government is alright to serve and be honored..

I see this time and time again. Kids that graduated the previous year come in, and visit the school and they are in marine uniforms. They have joined the marines. What are the advantages of this? How does a drill sargent yelling at you 24/7 better than a normal 40 hour work week or college:?Raged_Soulja

I see this time and time again. Kids that graduated the previous year come in, and visit the school and they are in marine uniforms. They have joined the marines. What are the advantages of this? How does a drill sargent yelling at you 24/7 better than a normal 40 hour work week or college:?Raged_Soulja

serving your country

decent pay with a ton of benefits

pays for college

a lot of the people i know that joined the service are people in the working class. a lot of those jobs are very tedious or not paying well or even closing out right.

[QUOTE="CoreoVII"]So if you had the money for college right out of high school, you would still join to "serve your country"? :lol: i think not...:|Dasacant

ive known people who did that too. infact most of my family joined the military just out of tradition

sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="CoreoVII"]So if you had the money for college right out of high school, you would still join to "serve your country"? :lol: i think not...:|H8sMikeMoore

ive known people who did that too. infact most of my family joined the military just out of tradition

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Dasacant

What are you talking about? The majority of their army was scared men who didn't want to serve.. They were gun downed by Russian officers if they fled.. How were they brave? They had NO choice in the matter, fight or die.. This isn't berating them, its just saying that nothign honorable can be said about them except that it was a tragedy... They had as much honor as refusing and getting killed by teh Russian government.

[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]

[QUOTE="Dasacant"] Wether they fight for their comrades or for there countries they are still serving their country and preforming a necessary duty. which is honorablesSubZerOo

1. How is serving your country necessary?

2. You're question-begging. ;)

No.

You are not serving your country, you are serving the government.. The government is not always a representation of your country, your core values..

but without a military we wouldnt have a country.

[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]sSubZerOo

What are you talking about? The majority of their army was scared men who didn't want to serve.. They were gun downed by Russian officers if they fled.. How were they brave? They had NO choice in the matter, fight or die.. This isn't berating them, its just saying that nothign honorable can be said about them except that it was a tragedy... They had as much honor as refusing and getting killed by teh Russian government.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Dasacant

What are you talking about? The majority of their army was scared men who didn't want to serve.. They were gun downed by Russian officers if they fled.. How were they brave? They had NO choice in the matter, fight or die.. This isn't berating them, its just saying that nothign honorable can be said about them except that it was a tragedy... They had as much honor as refusing and getting killed by teh Russian government.

What are you talking about.. The only reason why they fight becasue it was a better option.. You either had option A) refuse and die right there, no chance what so ever... B) Fight and probably die, but there still is a chance to live.. Any rational person will take the second one, it has nothing to do with bracery or courage but survival.

[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]sSubZerOo

What are you talking about? The majority of their army was scared men who didn't want to serve.. They were gun downed by Russian officers if they fled.. How were they brave? They had NO choice in the matter, fight or die.. This isn't berating them, its just saying that nothign honorable can be said about them except that it was a tragedy... They had as much honor as refusing and getting killed by teh Russian government.

What are you talking about.. The only reason why they fight becasue it was a better option.. You either had option A) refuse and die right there, no chance what so ever... B) Fight and probably die, but there still is a chance to live.. Any rational person will take the second one, it has nothing to do with bracery or courage but survival.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="Dasacant"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]Dasacant

What are you talking about? The majority of their army was scared men who didn't want to serve.. They were gun downed by Russian officers if they fled.. How were they brave? They had NO choice in the matter, fight or die.. This isn't berating them, its just saying that nothign honorable can be said about them except that it was a tragedy... They had as much honor as refusing and getting killed by teh Russian government.

What are you talking about.. The only reason why they fight becasue it was a better option.. You either had option A) refuse and die right there, no chance what so ever... B) Fight and probably die, but there still is a chance to live.. Any rational person will take the second one, it has nothing to do with bracery or courage but survival.

I am sorry you clearly don't know what honor is then.. What your trying to tell me here is its honorable to have courage? This is load of crap, even when your government is tyranical doing unspeakable things.. I am sure the AQ member who blew him self up had courage to do that as well, after all he believed in it and it took guts to do.

I am sorry you clearly don't know what honor is then.. What your trying to tell me here is its honorable to have courage? This is load of crap, even when your government is tyranical doing unspeakable things.. I am sure the AQ member who blew him self up had courage to do that as well, after all he believed in it and it took guts to do.

sSubZerOo

you're the only one ive ever heard/saw say courage isnt honorable. I suppose hostile internet messages are honorable though.

you're the only one ive ever heard/saw say courage isnt honorable. I suppose hostile internet messages are honorable though.

H8sMikeMoore

Courage is a trait to be honored yes.. But it depends entirely on what your doing.. You think the the attackers of 9/11 who had odviously had courage to sacrifice their lives for sucha huge thing is seen as honorable?

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

I am sorry you clearly don't know what honor is then.. What your trying to tell me here is its honorable to have courage? This is load of crap, even when your government is tyranical doing unspeakable things.. I am sure the AQ member who blew him self up had courage to do that as well, after all he believed in it and it took guts to do.

H8sMikeMoore

you're the only one ive ever heard/saw say courage isnt honorable. I suppose hostile internet messages are honorable though.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

you're the only one ive ever heard/saw say courage isnt honorable. I suppose hostile internet messages are honorable though.

sSubZerOo

Courage is a trait to be honored yes.. But it depends entirely on what your doing.. You think the the attackers of 9/11 who had odviously had courage to sacrifice their lives for sucha huge thing is seen as honorable?

courage its self is honorable even if theyre my enemy. you can be honored for more than one thing.

any form of courage is honorable including the 911 attackers, however the actions themself were not honorable on my side of the fence.

im already aware that what i said was massively un-pc. But then again, i dont care. (last line wasnt exactly directed at you)

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

you're the only one ive ever heard/saw say courage isnt honorable. I suppose hostile internet messages are honorable though.

H8sMikeMoore

Courage is a trait to be honored yes.. But it depends entirely on what your doing.. You think the the attackers of 9/11 who had odviously had courage to sacrifice their lives for sucha huge thing is seen as honorable?

courage its self is honorable even if theyre my enemy. you can be honored for more than one thing.

any form of courage is honorable including the 911 attackers, however the actions themself were not honorable on my side of the fence.

im already aware that what i said was massively un-pc. But then again, i dont care. (last line wasnt exactly directed at you)

Its a honorable trait to have YES, that doesn't some how make the person HONORABLE though.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

you're the only one ive ever heard/saw say courage isnt honorable. I suppose hostile internet messages are honorable though.

sSubZerOo

Courage is a trait to be honored yes.. But it depends entirely on what your doing.. You think the the attackers of 9/11 who had odviously had courage to sacrifice their lives for sucha huge thing is seen as honorable?

And on further note you guys seem to be confused with self preservation is.. What your trying to tell me sense these guys decided to try to fight because they had a gun pointed at their head, then they should be honored for it? Thats a tragedy not a honorable way to die, people would consider that COWARDLY in being driven against your will due to certain death.. INfact courage and honor is seen to do the EXACT OPPOSITE, that you stand up against certain death.. Not let it around manipulating you.sSubZerOo

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

you're the only one ive ever heard/saw say courage isnt honorable. I suppose hostile internet messages are honorable though.

Dasacant

Courage is a trait to be honored yes.. But it depends entirely on what your doing.. You think the the attackers of 9/11 who had odviously had courage to sacrifice their lives for sucha huge thing is seen as honorable?

They arn't brave, its self preservation.. Bravery is standing up against that certain death threat, not being controled by it..

Russian troops were odviously controled by it and were flung into a battle they didnt agree with, by a country they did not want.. And secondly whats the difference for hte last part.. AQ is extreme yes, extreme factions can control the country.. And you said it your self, that the government is the country.. So there is no point in trying to blow it off as some how not comparable.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]And on further note you guys seem to be confused with self preservation is.. What your trying to tell me sense these guys decided to try to fight because they had a gun pointed at their head, then they should be honored for it? Thats a tragedy not a honorable way to die, people would consider that COWARDLY in being driven against your will due to certain death.. INfact courage and honor is seen to do the EXACT OPPOSITE, that you stand up against certain death.. Not let it around manipulating you.Dasacant

So pleas tell every one here.. How were the russian troops honorable?

That they were forced into a conflict they didn't agree with, by a tyrnical government they hated, to fight a enemy they didn't want to fight, by if refused would mean certain death..

What is honorable in that? In the end most people would consider this cowardly and dishonorable in the eyes when we are trying to desciper what being honorable is.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

I am sorry you clearly don't know what honor is then.. What your trying to tell me here is its honorable to have courage? This is load of crap, even when your government is tyranical doing unspeakable things.. I am sure the AQ member who blew him self up had courage to do that as well, after all he believed in it and it took guts to do.

Dasacant

you're the only one ive ever heard/saw say courage isnt honorable. I suppose hostile internet messages are honorable though.

Semantics, it still takes courage to blow one self up for their ideals.. I could care less what tactics you think our distasteful, it still took courage to sacrifice their lives.