What's your view on affirmative action?

Do you think race, gender, and ethnicity should be taken into consideration in education, employment, health programs, etc? Why or why not?

Personally, I'm Hispanic (born in Argentina) and I think the practice is unfair. I believe I have had unfair advantages by being able to apply for certain Hispanic scholarships for instance.

This was already done in here last week! It basically turned into a racism-economics troll after 8 pages...

This was already done in here last week! It basically turned into a racism-economics troll after 8 pages...

matenmoe

:? I had no idea.

Yuppers-sorry! Here's the link;

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26851103

Maybe I spend too much time in OT? :?

Yuppers-sorry! Here's the link;

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26851103

Maybe I spend too much time in OT? :?

matenmoe

[QUOTE="matenmoe"]

Yuppers-sorry! Here's the link;

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26851103

Maybe I spend too much time in OT? :?

waffle57

Should I resurrect it or are people already tired of discussing this topic?

[QUOTE="waffle57"][QUOTE="matenmoe"]

Yuppers-sorry! Here's the link;

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26851103

Maybe I spend too much time in OT? :?

BlueBirdTS

Should I resurrect it or are people already tired of discussing this topic?

No more black history month, no more happy latino food daySpicy-McHaggis

:lol: Bit of a difference between the two, wouldn't you say? I agree with you for the most part, but I think that cultural events like 'Latino food day' are fine.

[QUOTE="Spicy-McHaggis"]No more black history month, no more happy latino food dayBlueBirdTS

:lol: Bit of a difference between the two, wouldn't you say? I agree with you for the most part, but I think that cultural events like 'Latino food day' are fine.

In the US I still think AA is necessary.btaylor2404

Why so? (I'm just curious)

[QUOTE="Spicy-McHaggis"]No more black history month, no more happy latino food dayBlueBirdTS

:lol: Bit of a difference between the two, wouldn't you say? I agree with you for the most part, but I think that cultural events like 'Latino food day' are fine.

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

[QUOTE="Spicy-McHaggis"]No more black history month, no more happy latino food daySpicy-McHaggis

:lol: Bit of a difference between the two, wouldn't you say? I agree with you for the most part, but I think that cultural events like 'Latino food day' are fine.

Aye.

[QUOTE="btaylor2404"]In the US I still think AA is necessary.BlueBirdTS

Why so? (I'm just curious)

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

[QUOTE="btaylor2404"]In the US I still think AA is necessary.btaylor2404

Why so? (I'm just curious)

I agree, racism is still alive in the US, but to what extent? Isn't it hypocritical to "correct" the problem by reverse-discrimination? If someone is more capable than I am, shouldn't they receive scholarship money and not me?

[QUOTE="btaylor2404"][QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

Why so? (I'm just curious)

BlueBirdTS

I agree, racism is still alive in the US, but to what extent? Isn't it hypocritical to "correct" the problem by reverse-discrimination? If someone is more capable than I am, shouldn't they receive scholarship money and not me?

[QUOTE="BlueBirdTS"]

[QUOTE="btaylor2404"] Being a sales rep for over 17 or so years, and being in several Fortune 500 boardrooms I see that racism is alive and well. And until it's not affecting one's ability to land a job, AA needs to stand.Ace_WondersX

I agree, racism is still alive in the US, but to what extent? Isn't it hypocritical to "correct" the problem by reverse-discrimination? If someone is more capable than I am, shouldn't they receive scholarship money and not me?

This is true, but shouldn't they want everyone to do well? I can understand why they would have a fund for, say, people whoose parents make under a certain amount of money, but race shouldn't be a factor in my opinion.

Its seriously time to get rid of it.

and what happens when white people become the minority?

I don't support any form of racism or discrimination, that includes affirmative action.

I do not support affirmative action. I do, however, think that more money needs to be invested in public education, particularly in underachieving school districts. The only true way to provide equality of higher education and job opportunities, is to ensure equality (or near equality) of education opportunities at the middle and high school levels.

Affirmative action can only ever be a good thing, as long as personal talent/accomplishments are given equal weight.

Do you think race, gender, and ethnicity should be taken into consideration in education, employment, health programs, etc? Why or why not?

Personally, I'm Hispanic (born in Argentina) and I think the practice is unfair. I believe I have had unfair advantages by being able to apply for certain Hispanic scholarships for instance.

BlueBirdTS

Not another one of these threads...

and anyway, there are scholarships for just about anything. Including white peoples.

and what happens when white people become the minority?

HookedOnKiLLing

White people are the minority in South Africa, yet it didn't stop them from controlling everything. I expect the same to be true everywhere.

Wow. 1 for and 31 against. Isnt affirmative action generally supported by Democrats and Liberals? I thought gamespot was thriving with them. Even chessmaster is against it. Holy Crap.

I voted no in the poll, but I think I wanted to vote "other".

I don't agree with affirmative action based on race or skin colour or anything like that. But I do think the requirements for men and women for say... entering the fire department shouldn't be the same. I also think companies should hire a certain % of handicapped workers.

Wow. 1 for and 31 against. Isnt affirmative action generally supported by Democrats and Liberals? I thought gamespot was thriving with them. Even chessmaster is against it. Holy Crap.

Singularity22

Heh, so now I'm the one GS users think of when they think "liberals"? I can live with that :P.

Interestingly enough, I don't oppose affirmative action because I think it's unfair, although I do not think it exactly fair. I oppose it because I think it to be a very poor "solution" to a much larger education problem, and, in my humble opinion, it is hindering us from actually addressing the larger problem. Affirmative action only aids a very small minority of minority students to attend better colleges. It does not aid minority students who do not graduate from high school to begin with. It does not help underperforming non-minority students. It does not attempt to actually increase the overall quality of education for students across the country, many of whom are receiving inadequate educations in underperforming school districts. Instead, it merely helps a small group of minority students to get into better colleges.

Affirmative action may be unfair, but that is not the main issue. The main issue that it serves as an absolutely horrible method of actually combatting the larger education crisis.

I voted no in the poll, but I think I wanted to vote "other".

I don't agree with affirmative action based on race or skin colour or anything like that. But I do think the requirements for men and women for say... entering the fire department shouldn't be the same. I also think companies should hire a certain % of handicapped workers.

Famiking

Why do you think a company should hire a certain percent of handicapped workers (and female workers), but not think that they should be required to hire a certain percentage of minorites (and by that I mean ALL minorities, not just black) when they are doing business in neighborhoods with large numbers of minority families?

Wow. 1 for and 31 against. Isnt affirmative action generally supported by Democrats and Liberals? I thought gamespot was thriving with them. Even chessmaster is against it. Holy Crap.

Singularity22

Also, interestingly enough, we took a poll in one of my 9th grade classes four years back, and a large majority was against affirmative action. Keep in mind that these are high school students in Palo Alto, an extremely liberal area. To give you some idea, my high school held a mock election, and Obama defeated McCain by something like 450 votes to 50.

[QUOTE="Singularity22"]

Wow. 1 for and 31 against. Isnt affirmative action generally supported by Democrats and Liberals? I thought gamespot was thriving with them. Even chessmaster is against it. Holy Crap.

chessmaster1989

Heh, so now I'm the one GS users think of when they think "liberals"? I can live with that :P.

Interestingly enough, I don't oppose affirmative action because I think it's unfair, although I do not think it exactly fair. I oppose it because I think it to be a very poor "solution" to a much larger education problem, and, in my humble opinion, it is hindering us from actually addressing the larger problem. Affirmative action only aids a very small minority of minority students to attend better colleges. It does not aid minority students who do not graduate from high school to begin with. It does not help underperforming non-minority students. It does not attempt to actually increase the overall quality of education for students across the country, many of whom are receiving inadequate educations in underperforming school districts. Instead, it merely helps a small group of minority students to get into better colleges.

Affirmative action may be unfair, but that is not the main issue. The main issue that it serves as an absolutely horrible method of actually combatting the larger education crisis.

You made the best "against" point I have ever heard in my life. Congrats.

[QUOTE="Singularity22"]

Wow. 1 for and 31 against. Isnt affirmative action generally supported by Democrats and Liberals? I thought gamespot was thriving with them. Even chessmaster is against it. Holy Crap.

chessmaster1989

Heh, so now I'm the one GS users think of when they think "liberals"? I can live with that :P.

Interestingly enough, I don't oppose affirmative action because I think it's unfair, although I do not think it exactly fair. I oppose it because I think it to be a very poor "solution" to a much larger education problem, and, in my humble opinion, it is hindering us from actually addressing the larger problem. Affirmative action only aids a very small minority of minority students to attend better colleges. It does not aid minority students who do not graduate from high school to begin with. It does not help underperforming non-minority students. It does not attempt to actually increase the overall quality of education for students across the country, many of whom are receiving inadequate educations in underperforming school districts. Instead, it merely helps a small group of minority students to get into better colleges.

Affirmative action may be unfair, but that is not the main issue. The main issue that it serves as an absolutely horrible method of actually combatting the larger education crisis.

Well you are :P But its cool.

As far as a solution for educational problems I see what you are saying. The thing is, Affirmative Action isnt just about education, its for the workplace too, especially where I work. In fact, openly opposing it will get you fired.

[QUOTE="Famiking"]

I voted no in the poll, but I think I wanted to vote "other".

I don't agree with affirmative action based on race or skin colour or anything like that. But I do think the requirements for men and women for say... entering the fire department shouldn't be the same. I also think companies should hire a certain % of handicapped workers.

TBoogy

Why do you think a company should hire a certain percent of handicapped workers (and female workers), but not think that they should be required to hire a certain percentage of minorites (and by that I mean ALL minorities, not just black) when they are doing business in neighborhoods with large numbers of minority families?

[QUOTE="Singularity22"]

Wow. 1 for and 31 against. Isnt affirmative action generally supported by Democrats and Liberals? I thought gamespot was thriving with them. Even chessmaster is against it. Holy Crap.

chessmaster1989

Also, interestingly enough, we took a poll in one of my 9th grade classes four years back, and a large majority was against affirmative action. Keep in mind that these are high school students in Palo Alto, an extremely liberal area. To give you some idea, my high school held a mock election, and Obama defeated McCain by something like 450 votes to 50.

I am not surprised most (especially young) people are against it. Most do not have your intelligent reason though.

Most are just scared that AA means they can't get a job and are punished for being white, which older people SHOULD know is not the case.

[QUOTE="TBoogy"]

[QUOTE="Famiking"]

I voted no in the poll, but I think I wanted to vote "other".

I don't agree with affirmative action based on race or skin colour or anything like that. But I do think the requirements for men and women for say... entering the fire department shouldn't be the same. I also think companies should hire a certain % of handicapped workers.

Famiking

Why do you think a company should hire a certain percent of handicapped workers (and female workers), but not think that they should be required to hire a certain percentage of minorites (and by that I mean ALL minorities, not just black) when they are doing business in neighborhoods with large numbers of minority families?

Women and the handicapped are protected against anti discrimination laws as well.

EDIT:

The plight of women and minorities in the workplace are almost exactly the same. And both are often paid less for the same job (with the same education) as a white male.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Singularity22"]

Wow. 1 for and 31 against. Isnt affirmative action generally supported by Democrats and Liberals? I thought gamespot was thriving with them. Even chessmaster is against it. Holy Crap.

Singularity22

Heh, so now I'm the one GS users think of when they think "liberals"? I can live with that :P.

Interestingly enough, I don't oppose affirmative action because I think it's unfair, although I do not think it exactly fair. I oppose it because I think it to be a very poor "solution" to a much larger education problem, and, in my humble opinion, it is hindering us from actually addressing the larger problem. Affirmative action only aids a very small minority of minority students to attend better colleges. It does not aid minority students who do not graduate from high school to begin with. It does not help underperforming non-minority students. It does not attempt to actually increase the overall quality of education for students across the country, many of whom are receiving inadequate educations in underperforming school districts. Instead, it merely helps a small group of minority students to get into better colleges.

Affirmative action may be unfair, but that is not the main issue. The main issue that it serves as an absolutely horrible method of actually combatting the larger education crisis.

Well you are :P But its cool.

As far as a solution for educational problems I see what you are saying. The thing is, Affirmative Action isnt just about education, its for the workplace too, especially where I work. In fact, openly opposing it will get you fired.

When I talk about affirmative action, it is always in the context of education. I wasn't aware that the term "affirmative action" had meaning in the workplace (not to say I wasn't aware of the concept of affirmative action-type policies in the workplace, I just wasn't aware they were labeled as affirmative action). My main problems with education-type affirmative action do not apply in the workplace, although I still would oppose it, since I don't like the idea of discrimination of any type in the workplace.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Singularity22"]

Wow. 1 for and 31 against. Isnt affirmative action generally supported by Democrats and Liberals? I thought gamespot was thriving with them. Even chessmaster is against it. Holy Crap.

TBoogy

Heh, so now I'm the one GS users think of when they think "liberals"? I can live with that :P.

Interestingly enough, I don't oppose affirmative action because I think it's unfair, although I do not think it exactly fair. I oppose it because I think it to be a very poor "solution" to a much larger education problem, and, in my humble opinion, it is hindering us from actually addressing the larger problem. Affirmative action only aids a very small minority of minority students to attend better colleges. It does not aid minority students who do not graduate from high school to begin with. It does not help underperforming non-minority students. It does not attempt to actually increase the overall quality of education for students across the country, many of whom are receiving inadequate educations in underperforming school districts. Instead, it merely helps a small group of minority students to get into better colleges.

Affirmative action may be unfair, but that is not the main issue. The main issue that it serves as an absolutely horrible method of actually combatting the larger education crisis.

You made the best "against" point I have ever heard in my life. Congrats.

Why, thank you. I'm flattered. :oops:

Women and the handicapped are protected against anti discrimination laws as well.

TBoogy

People don't hire women because they fear they'll get pregnant and go on maternity leave. People don't hire handicapped people because they believe they are inefficient. Why don't people hire minority races? Because said people are stupid and nothing more.

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

[QUOTE="Singularity22"]

Wow. 1 for and 31 against. Isnt affirmative action generally supported by Democrats and Liberals? I thought gamespot was thriving with them. Even chessmaster is against it. Holy Crap.

TBoogy

Also, interestingly enough, we took a poll in one of my 9th grade classes four years back, and a large majority was against affirmative action. Keep in mind that these are high school students in Palo Alto, an extremely liberal area. To give you some idea, my high school held a mock election, and Obama defeated McCain by something like 450 votes to 50.

I am not surprised most (especially young) people are against it. Most do not have your intelligent reason though.

Most are just scared that AA means they can't get a job and are punished for being white, which older people SHOULD know is not the case.

Most people I spoke with about affirmative action said they opposed it because they did not like the idea of "reverse discrimination," which is fair. There are certainly some who opposed it merely because they didn't like the idea of someone less qualified than they were taking their spot at a top college.

I actually do not think that affirmative action, when first enacted, was a bad idea. It provided some type of compensation for the disadvantages certain minorities had had to cope with. However, more than half a century after Brown v. Board, there is absolutely no excuse for why it continues to exist. I think the mere fact that it continues to exist, and that the education crisis has gradually worsened, is indication that it is little more than an excuse not to address the larger issue, which is why I think it needs to be abandoned.

[QUOTE="TBoogy"]Women and the handicapped are protected against anti discrimination laws as well.

Famiking

People don't hire women because they fear they'll get pregnant and go on maternity leave. People don't hire handicapped people because they believe they are inefficient. Why don't people hire minority races? Because said people are stupid and nothing more.

It doesn't matter WHY people don't hire each group, just the fact that it happens. Maybe they think women are too 'moody" for the job. Maybe they think the handicapped are an eyesore for the business. Maybe they think blacks are lazy. Or hispanics hot headed. Whatever the case, it happens and if a company is very large (and affirmative action does not apply to small companies) it is not too much to ask that they hire a 10% minoritywork force if they are in a community with 30% minorites (for example).

[QUOTE="TBoogy"]

[QUOTE="chessmaster1989"]

Also, interestingly enough, we took a poll in one of my 9th grade classes four years back, and a large majority was against affirmative action. Keep in mind that these are high school students in Palo Alto, an extremely liberal area. To give you some idea, my high school held a mock election, and Obama defeated McCain by something like 450 votes to 50.

chessmaster1989

I am not surprised most (especially young) people are against it. Most do not have your intelligent reason though.

Most are just scared that AA means they can't get a job and are punished for being white, which older people SHOULD know is not the case.

Most people I spoke with about affirmative action said they opposed it because they did not like the idea of "reverse discrimination," which is fair. There are certainly some who opposed it merely because they didn't like the idea of someone less qualified than they were taking their spot at a top college.

I actually do not think that affirmative action, when first enacted, was a bad idea. It provided some type of compensation for the disadvantages certain minorities had had to cope with. However, more than half a century after Brown v. Board, there is absolutely no excuse for why it continues to exist. I think the mere fact that it continues to exist, and that the education crisis has gradually worsened, is indication that it is little more than an excuse not to address the larger issue, which is why I think it needs to be abandoned.

Good points. I have to admit, when I hear "A.A.", I picture it for the work place, not education. If I were looking at it from an educational standpoint, I would mostly agree with you. I doknow (and am a living example) that blacks are just a capable in the classroom as anyone else, and that lesser requirments are not needed, just an renewed focus on learning.

But the fact is women DO get pregnant and DO have weaker strength than men, handicaps ARE inefficient in many cases. Hispanics being hot headed and blacks being lazy are just stereotypes.Famiking

Im sorry, but this is a stereotype as well. I know plenty of women that could out hussle and out lift alot of men any day of the week.

As far as the handicapped bit goes, youre mostly right, but I do know a police officer with only one arm.