Who's going to join the Military?

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="trix5817"]

You mean like Nazi Germany? Yes, Socialism and Fascism is great! Look how well it has worked out!

trix5817

Are you talking about the draft? I was just refering to his last sentence in general. That's actually happening right now in the U.S.

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="majwill24"]

Sorry for being OT :P

This is one of the biggest gripes I have with Ayn Rand and her beliefs of individualism and rational self interest. The poster is honest and I think most people in a wealthy society would be the same.

The argument that the draft is never necessary and is illegal in a democratic society is flawed. In a major conflict, many would still not fight, even if their country was at stake. It's doesnt go against rational self interest because the smart thing to do is not join and let others die and if things dont turn around, simply move to another nation.

For this reason, I support countries would foster nationalism or have a central authority that overrides all freedoms for the collective good.

majwill24

You mean like Nazi Germany? Yes, Socialism and Fascism is great! Look how well it has worked out!

I was thinking about the US actually, nationalism is quite respectable for a multicultural first world country and the federal government has incredible authority.

So you want Socialism or Fascism (both are similar and put the "common good" of the collective over the individual and Rule of Law)? When I say Fascism, I don't mean Nazism by the way.

[QUOTE="majwill24"]

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

You mean like Nazi Germany? Yes, Socialism and Fascism is great! Look how well it has worked out!

trix5817

I was thinking about the US actually, nationalism is quite respectable for a multicultural first world country and the federal government has incredible authority.

So you want Socialism or Fascism (both are similar and put the "common good" of the collective over the individual and Rule of Law)? When I say Fascism, I don't mean Nazism by the way.

[QUOTE="AnObscureName"]I think I would pass. I'm not built for the military; I question instructions, I wouldn't put my life in danger for others and I have no real sense of patriotism.majwill24

Sorry for being OT :P

This is one of the biggest gripes I have with Ayn Rand and her beliefs of individualism and rational self interest. The poster is honest and I think most people in a wealthy society would be the same.

The argument that the draft is never necessary and is illegal in a democratic society is flawed. In a major conflict, many would still not fight, even if their country was at stake. It's doesnt go against rational self interest because the smart thing to do is not join and let others die and if things dont turn around, simply move to another nation.

For this reason, I support countries that foster nationalism or have a central authority that overrides all freedoms for the collective good.

[QUOTE="majwill24"]

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

You mean like Nazi Germany? Yes, Socialism and Fascism is great! Look how well it has worked out!

trix5817

I was thinking about the US actually, nationalism is quite respectable for a multicultural first world country and the federal government has incredible authority.

So you want Socialism or Fascism (both are similar and put the "common good" of the collective over the individual and Rule of Law)? When I say Fascism, I don't mean Nazism by the way.

Doesnt have to be either. A practical nation knows when to change footings in a time of major crisis. there is nothing wrong with a democracy promoting nationalism with its people or using authority to ensure the survival of the state. Rationing, curfews, priority of resources etc make perfect sense if ina war that involves the survival of the state.

Now if you are one of those idealists, then yeah I can see how you may have a problem with that. Just keep in mind WW2 was won by people that viewed the world with pragmatism and not idealism like today.

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="majwill24"]

I was thinking about the US actually, nationalism is quite respectable for a multicultural first world country and the federal government has incredible authority.

jointed

So you want Socialism or Fascism (both are similar and put the "common good" of the collective over the individual and Rule of Law)? When I say Fascism, I don't mean Nazism by the way.

Wrong. It's a common misconception that fascism is a right-wing ideology. The Fascist Mussollini refered to himself as a Socialist and practiced socialist thinking. He grew up as a Socialist. The Nazis were the "National Socialist Workers Party". The U.S. Left also addored Mussollini and Fascism back then, especially Progressives. Only when Nazi Germany started to commit attrocities and the Communist were condemning Fascism did they get out of the Fascist bandwagon.

There actually is no definite definition of Fascism. Scholars still can't agree on a definition.

Both Fascism and Socialism have the same goals. It's all about the Collective over the Individual. Everything for the State.

[QUOTE="jointed"][QUOTE="trix5817"]

So you want Socialism or Fascism (both are similar and put the "common good" of the collective over the individual and Rule of Law)? When I say Fascism, I don't mean Nazism by the way.

trix5817

Wrong. It's a common misconception that fascism is a right-wing ideology. The Fascist Mussollini refered to himself as a Socialist and practiced socialist thinking. He grew up as a Socialist. The Nazis were the "National Socialist Workers Party". The U.S. Left also addored Mussollini and Fascism back then, especially Progressives. Only when Nazi Germany started to commit attrocities and the Communist were condemning Fascism did they get out of the Fascist bandwagon.

There actually is no definite definition of fascism. Scholars still can't agree on a definition.

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="jointed"] Socialism and fascism are opposites, the only thing they share is the idea of a big government....luckily, the size of the state is not the only thing that decides where on the political spectrum you're located.jointed

Wrong. It's a common misconception that fascism is a right-wing ideology. The Fascist Mussollini refered to himself as a Socialist and practiced socialist thinking. He grew up as a Socialist. The Nazis were the "National Socialist Workers Party". The U.S. Left also addored Mussollini and Fascism back then, especially Progressives. Only when Nazi Germany started to commit attrocities and the Communist were condemning Fascism did they get out of the Fascist bandwagon.

There actually is no definite definition of fascism. Scholars still can't agree on a definition.

I can't believe you're going to try and argue this with me. Communist were seen as traitors because they were fighting the Communist Red Army...

Fascism and Socialism are both ideologies of the Left. Sorry. Try reading several books on it like I have then we can have an actual conversation.

[QUOTE="jointed"]

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

Wrong. It's a common misconception that fascism is a right-wing ideology. The Fascist Mussollini refered to himself as a Socialist and practiced socialist thinking. He grew up as a Socialist. The Nazis were the "National Socialist Workers Party". The U.S. Left also addored Mussollini and Fascism back then, especially Progressives. Only when Nazi Germany started to commit attrocities and the Communist were condemning Fascism did they get out of the Fascist bandwagon.

There actually is no definite definition of fascism. Scholars still can't agree on a definition.

trix5817

I can't believe you're going to try and argue this with me. Communist were seen as traitors because they were fighting the Communist Red Army...

Fascism and Socialism are both ideologies of the Left. Sorry. Try reading several books on it like I have then we can have an actual conversation.

i am going to be a marine. I am pumped even though i am not quite old enough. i want to be a para-trooper and jump out of air planes like my father and grandfather. who else is going to be a marine?assassinlord22

[QUOTE="assassinlord22"]i am going to be a marine. I am pumped even though i am not quite old enough. i want to be a para-trooper and jump out of air planes like my father and grandfather. who else is going to be a marine?iowastate

When I get old enough, I'm gonna consider it...

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="jointed"] I can't believe you're actually trying to explain this to me. Fascists believe in a concrete social hierarchy and a strong nation state, socialists believe in equality on all levels of society and often disregard national borders. They're opposites and that's not debatable. There's a reason why both Hitler and Mussolini went after socialists and communists, it's because they saw them as traitors to the nation state and threats to the structure of their societies. The closest the two ideologies ever go is the idea of big government and that's not even entirely true since fascists also believe in corporatism, something which is completely against socialist values.

Dawq902

I can't believe you're going to try and argue this with me. Communist were seen as traitors because they were fighting the Communist Red Army...

Fascism and Socialism are both ideologies of the Left. Sorry. Try reading several books on it like I have then we can have an actual conversation.

[QUOTE="iowastate"][QUOTE="assassinlord22"]i am going to be a marine. I am pumped even though i am not quite old enough. i want to be a para-trooper and jump out of air planes like my father and grandfather. who else is going to be a marine?Dawq902

Socialists - USSR, Communist China, North Korea, Cuba

Faschists - Nazi Germany, Italy, Japan

When you get down to the small details Faschism and Socialism are not the same but when you look at the big picture they are. Government has total control and is usually lead by an absolute dictator. Of course their views on things such as business and land ownership differ they still have the same basic principles. In most of these countries living conditions have been bad and the dictators were not well liked. We can see that they governments only seem to still be working in what would be considerd underdeveloped nations.

Would you like to know some key parts of the National Socialist Workers Party's (Nazi's) platform that Adolf Hitler himself helped write?

It appealed to socialist and populist economics, with ideas including univeral education, guarenteed employment, increased entitlements for the aged, the expropriation of land without compensation, the nationalization of industry, the abolition of market-based lending (aka "interest slavery"), the expansion of health services, and the abolition of child labor.

Here's a quote from Adolf Hitler "We have endeavored to depart from the external, the superficial, endeavored to forget social orgin, class, profession, fortune, education, capital and everthing that separates men, in order to reach that which binds them together."

Yeah, all sounds pretty right-winged to me...:roll:

But remember, Facsism isn't Marxist Socialism. It's National Socialism. The Nazi Party campaigned as a Socialist as well as a Nationalist party.

China, Cuba and North Korea are all considerd developing nations while Germany, Japan and Italy are considerd developed. The developing countries are the ones that have socialist governements. Russia is the only exception, it is still considerd developing.

[QUOTE="Dawq902"][QUOTE="trix5817"]

I can't believe you're going to try and argue this with me. Communist were seen as traitors because they were fighting the Communist Red Army...

Fascism and Socialism are both ideologies of the Left. Sorry. Try reading several books on it like I have then we can have an actual conversation.

iowastate

I am sorry but you're wrong. They both put the Collective over the Individual. Sorry, but that's not an ideology of the right.

Look at the facts. Look at Hitler's beliefs. Look at Mussolini's beliefs. Look at fascist beliefs. Look at history.

Tell me, if Fascism is a right-winged ideology, why did many on the American Left admire and ador it?

[QUOTE="clembo1990"]I'm not over-emphasising. It's a sad fact that war never changes. What is your point? Your contradiction is bugging me a bit so i'll just point it out: according to you I am coming across as "condescending" yet you call me "young and naive". bt_the_great_78

Only when one reduces conflict to the most fundamental level -- and therefore virtually useless in any practical terms -- is it constant. War itself is constantly changing, both the terms and conduct, the definition of victory, the methods used, the political ramifications and social factors, the affect of media, the influence of norms, religion, ethics, philosphy, paradigm change. To suggest it never changes alone merits the adjective 'naive.'

It's not subtle the colorful terms you've used to describe today's operations as if we were still in fighting Gettysburg or Verdun.

Just because he joins the military doesn't mean he's going to war or on the frontlines...

You really have no idea what you're talking about. You have a completely delusional vision of what the military is actually like.

By the time this kid joins we will be out of Iraq and probably Afghanistan anyways.

trix5817

2. I think he may be doing this for the wrong reasons

3. You don't need to be in the military to have a valid opinion on whether it is a good thing to potentially go into a warzone.

i almost aced some test on the army website, they want me to fly predators. i said no because terrorists are still allowed on planes.

Im in the coast guard .

i almost aced some test on the army website, they want me to fly predators. i said no because terrorists are still allowed on planes.

12345678ew

It's going to be the Air Force for me. My second pick would be the Army and I have no intention in joining the Navy.

[QUOTE="CRS98"][QUOTE="Dawq902"] No respawns in real life :)Dawq902

I smell future. Heavily armed human like robots will be controlled by the best and brightest video game players.

Just got out of the military, Army Special Ops