Why are conservatives so against universal healthcare?!

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#101 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 50149 Posts

Taxes, dear friend. And bureaucracy is bad at such a massive scale. I mean, whenever I go into the DMV, I always shake my head from just how poorly in shape it is; I can't imagine how they're going to manage a huge chunk of the US economy.

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Ninja-Hippo

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#102 Ninja-Hippo
Member since 2008 • 23434 Posts
However, it's a lot more expensive and difficult for the non wealthy to afford both higher taxes and insurance premiums.LJS9502_basic
Taxes are not going to be exponentially higher to fund government health care. The cost of renovating one nuclear submarine is enough to cover healthcare for the whole of the UK for 30 years. You'll pay more in tax, but we're talking a LITTLE more, not a huge new burden to carry.
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worlock77

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#103 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I'm not sure what you are talking about. Under a universal system not every WILL pay into it. So you still have an imbalance plus government restricts health care when the money isn't there. Which you don't have to worry about with private insurance.LJS9502_basic

No, not every single person will pay into it, however broadly speaking, yeah, pretty much everyone will be.

Seems an assumption......and I don't believe pretty much everyone will.

Such a system would be paid for through taxes. So yeah, pretty much everyone would be paying into it.

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sigh-_-

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#104 sigh-_-
Member since 2010 • 149 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] I'm not sure what you are talking about. Under a universal system not every WILL pay into it. So you still have an imbalance plus government restricts health care when the money isn't there. Which you don't have to worry about with private insurance.

Private insurance will still exist. The UK still has health insurance, private practice and private hospitals. So the government never restricts your healthcare.

However, it's a lot more expensive and difficult for the non wealthy to afford both higher taxes and insurance premiums.

Oh man if only we had some sort of system whereby taxation was lower for the poor >_>
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T_P_O

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#105 T_P_O
Member since 2008 • 5388 Posts

[QUOTE="T_P_O"][QUOTE="coolbeans90"]Which tosses people like me with the Republican party. :?coolbeans90

Erm, I don't understand your meaning here. Is it a complaint against the analogy or is it just a statement that you'd have to go into the Republican party to garner any chance of influencing elections? I'm not being snarky, I'm rather confused.

No, not a complaint with your post so much as the reality of the two party system... somewhat depressing at times.

Ah, jolly good. I thought I'd made an arse out of myself. And I sympathize, the party system here isn't that great either. I don't identify as Labour, conservative or liberal democrat (used to until they sold themselves). Only 2 of them are ever going to get the amount of support needed for winning an election and the other seems like just a fad party (liberal dems) that bounces between 50-65 seats per election.

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LJS9502_basic

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#106 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180197 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

No, not every single person will pay into it, however broadly speaking, yeah, pretty much everyone will be.

worlock77

Seems an assumption......and I don't believe pretty much everyone will.

Such a system would be paid for through taxes. So yeah, pretty much everyone would be paying into it.

Everyone doesn't pay taxes.:|
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LJS9502_basic

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#107 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180197 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]However, it's a lot more expensive and difficult for the non wealthy to afford both higher taxes and insurance premiums.Ninja-Hippo
Taxes are not going to be exponentially higher to fund government health care. The cost of renovating one nuclear submarine is enough to cover healthcare for the whole of the UK for 30 years. You'll pay more in tax, but we're talking a LITTLE more, not a huge new burden to carry.

I'm not sure you understand the cost increase by having what many consider "free" health care.
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sigh-_-

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#108 sigh-_-
Member since 2010 • 149 Posts
[QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]However, it's a lot more expensive and difficult for the non wealthy to afford both higher taxes and insurance premiums.LJS9502_basic
Taxes are not going to be exponentially higher to fund government health care. The cost of renovating one nuclear submarine is enough to cover healthcare for the whole of the UK for 30 years. You'll pay more in tax, but we're talking a LITTLE more, not a huge new burden to carry.

I'm not sure you understand the cost increase by having what many consider "free" health care.

Um, refer to the previous statistic that the US has the highest healthcare expenditure per capita in the world. Not much of an increase, is it?
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worlock77

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#109 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Seems an assumption......and I don't believe pretty much everyone will.LJS9502_basic

Such a system would be paid for through taxes. So yeah, pretty much everyone would be paying into it.

Everyone doesn't pay taxes.:|

Hence where I said "no, not every single person will pay into it, however broadly speaking, yeah, pretty much everyone will be".

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LJS9502_basic

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#110 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180197 Posts
[QUOTE="sigh-_-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="Ninja-Hippo"] Taxes are not going to be exponentially higher to fund government health care. The cost of renovating one nuclear submarine is enough to cover healthcare for the whole of the UK for 30 years. You'll pay more in tax, but we're talking a LITTLE more, not a huge new burden to carry.

I'm not sure you understand the cost increase by having what many consider "free" health care.

Um, refer to the previous statistic that the US has the highest healthcare expenditure per capita in the world. Not much of an increase, is it?

We're talking individually here....
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sigh-_-

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#111 sigh-_-
Member since 2010 • 149 Posts
[QUOTE="sigh-_-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]I'm not sure you understand the cost increase by having what many consider "free" health care.LJS9502_basic
Um, refer to the previous statistic that the US has the highest healthcare expenditure per capita in the world. Not much of an increase, is it?

We're talking individually here....

Yes, hence 'per capita'. I'm not sure what part of 'per capita' you don't understand, but I'll be glad to help you with it :)
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sigh-_-

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#112 sigh-_-
Member since 2010 • 149 Posts
[QUOTE="worlock77"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Seems an assumption......and I don't believe pretty much everyone will.LJS9502_basic

Such a system would be paid for through taxes. So yeah, pretty much everyone would be paying into it.

Everyone doesn't pay taxes.:|

wat. some people do. an awful lot, in fact.
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LJS9502_basic

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#113 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180197 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sigh-_-"]Um, refer to the previous statistic that the US has the highest healthcare expenditure per capita in the world. Not much of an increase, is it?sigh-_-
We're talking individually here....

Yes, hence 'per capita'. I'm not sure what part of 'per capita' you don't understand, but I'll be glad to help you with it :)

You have to take out the government health care that already exists to find out what is spent privately.;)
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LJS9502_basic

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#114 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180197 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="worlock77"]

Such a system would be paid for through taxes. So yeah, pretty much everyone would be paying into it.

sigh-_-

Everyone doesn't pay taxes.:|

wat. some people do. an awful lot, in fact.

Some =/= EVERYONE.

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sigh-_-

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#115 sigh-_-
Member since 2010 • 149 Posts
[QUOTE="sigh-_-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]We're talking individually here....LJS9502_basic
Yes, hence 'per capita'. I'm not sure what part of 'per capita' you don't understand, but I'll be glad to help you with it :)

You have to take out the government health care that already exists to find out what is spent privately.;)

Well yes, c'est la basic arithmetic. It's also irrelevant.
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sigh-_-

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#116 sigh-_-
Member since 2010 • 149 Posts

[QUOTE="sigh-_-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Everyone doesn't pay taxes.:|LJS9502_basic

wat. some people do. an awful lot, in fact.

Some =/= EVERYONE.

Um, then the expression you were looking for was 'not everyone pays taxes', which is syntactically different from 'everyone doesn't pay taxes'.
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LJS9502_basic

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#117 LJS9502_basic
Member since 2003 • 180197 Posts

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="sigh-_-"]Yes, hence 'per capita'. I'm not sure what part of 'per capita' you don't understand, but I'll be glad to help you with it :)sigh-_-
You have to take out the government health care that already exists to find out what is spent privately.;)

Well yes, c'est la basic arithmetic. It's also irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant. If you are trying to say the private system costs too much..then it's disingenuous to have publicly funded health care in the statistics.

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chessmaster1989

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#118 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

It's not only conservatives who oppose government-run universal healthcare... I am fairly liberal and I do not support it...

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blackngold29

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#119 blackngold29
Member since 2004 • 14137 Posts
There are no kids or any kind of people dying due to lack of money. If you are legitly dying and you go to the hospital, they can't tell you to go away.
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fooZar777

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#120 fooZar777
Member since 2009 • 611 Posts

They'll get used to it soon enough. My mom sometimes talks about the concern people had in 91 when we started using capitalism. We switched from free health care to a universal health care system where everyone pays the same amount regardless of wealth. The difference between income and outcome is then managed by taxes, especially luxury taxes, like a tax on more than two houses, on luxury yachts and stuff that only the really really rich have. I think that is the only fair solution.

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sigh-_-

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#121 sigh-_-
Member since 2010 • 149 Posts

[QUOTE="sigh-_-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]You have to take out the government health care that already exists to find out what is spent privately.;)LJS9502_basic

Well yes, c'est la basic arithmetic. It's also irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant. If you are trying to say the private system costs too much..then it's disingenuous to have publicly funded health care in the statistics.

No it isn't, because I'm also criticising the state-capitalist practice of public funding going to the pockets of private healthcare providers.
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Jacobistheman

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#122 Jacobistheman
Member since 2007 • 3975 Posts

I am against it becuase I realized that the government can't make health-care better by making everyone pay for it. 25% of our tax money is going to Medicare/Medicare and those are failing. Why would we want the government in charge of that to be in charge of all of our health-care?

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worlock77

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#123 worlock77
Member since 2009 • 22552 Posts

I am against it becuase I realized that the government can't make health-care better by making everyone pay for it. 25% of our tax money is going to Medicare/Medicare and those are failing. Why would we want the government in charge of that to be in charge of all of our health-care?

Jacobistheman

How are they failing?