Why do many people on this site hate the rich so much?

A lot of people feel that the rich should pay tons of money to support all kinds of other people and pay huge amounts of taxes. And my question is.. why? Why should the rich be penalized so heavily for working hard and succeding? They put in the work, they earned the money.

The_Mac_Daddy

The people that hate the rich have bought into the leftist propaganda designed to pander. The left tells people that the rich did not earn their money, but that they gained it through misdeeds. This in turn fools the gullible into believing that they aren't responsible for their lesser earnings therefore garnering votes and furthering the socialist agenda. I am middle/ lower class and I believe the rich are taxed enough. The pay a very large majority of taxes and are constant target for pandering politicians who only want to tell the lower class majority what they like to hear.

What % of wealth is inherited in the US?duxup

Well, some 18% of the world's HNWIs (High Net Worth Individuals) get their money primarily though inheritance.

[QUOTE="wslacker2"]Just as there are stereotypes on Black, Hispanic, asian, disabled people, and Women, there are stereotypes of rich people. Like that all rich people are Ebenezer Scrooge. Stereotypes of ALL people will never end. Do I think the rich should pay more in taxes than the rest of us? They already do. Should they be relied upon to put my kids thru college, or pay for my medical procedure. Nope.pianist

Society as a collective whole generates wealth. No society = no wealth. So the rich have more of an obligation to the people who make it possible for them to be wealthier than the majority than you think they do. If we were still resorting to an 'every man for himself' mentality, do you honestly believe we'd have come as far as we have?

This is especially true of education. Why the hell should a society place the luxuries of a small group of individuals on a higher pedestal than the advancement of the nation (and indeed, humanity) as a whole? Education is the MOST important thing in society, and it is most effective when the people who pursue it are free to pursue it without the distraction and worry of debt. I beat the hell out of my colleagues who were forced to work in university because my scholarships allowed me to devote my time and effort to my studies, not paying for them. And I'm a far more productive individual as a result.

Wealth is built on the back of an educated society. If you are wealthy, you need to do your part to keep that system running, and that means you need to give back a hell of a lot of what you earn - leaving you with only 50 times more than an average person rather than 5000 times more than an average person.

1. They already do.

2. Because they are the people who create the means to advance the nation. Who created the telephone? Who created the P.C? The medical devices in our hospitals? et.al.

3. They already do.

not everyone who is rich work hard to get to where they are at and not everyone who is poor lazy and doesnt want to work. There are "poor" people who work harder then most that are rich.Tjeremiah1988

Very true, but the common misconception is that most rich people are lazy and got where they were on the back of some poor lay-worker.

are you kidding me? you mean to tell me the warehouse workers in sears work as hard as the CEO's? have you even had a job in your life? I worked at the sears warehouse they hired drop outs, they hired people who knew they could sit in a corner while everyone else worked. These people were some of the least educated people ive ever seen in my life and you have to audacity to say they work just as hard as a CEO?

No. But nor did I say a warehouse worker should earn a CEO's salary. And yes, I have a job, thanks very much. I'm also worked as a self-employed individual, so I know all about the effort that is required to get going with a personal business. Bare in mind that hard work is not necessarily intellectually demanding. The hardest job I've ever had to do was wash dishes for two months, because it was incredibly demanding psychologically (boring, boring work), and because it got the 'joy' of spending 8 hours in a steamy kitchen 6 days a weak. That job is MUCH 'harder' than my current job as a music instructor because I did not enjoy it at all. I got paid $7/h to wash dishes. I get paid $52/h to teach music.

the CEO's keep the company together, the warehouse guys can be replaced because you dont have to work hard at it and you dont have to be educated.

And this is why they're easily exploited. They NEED the work because they're not in demand, and yet they need to eat. And they're going to be stuck in that situation their whole life, because they'll never be able to make enough to save enough to get the education they need to work their way up the ladder, to say nothing of the emotional burden that is placed on them to do so. It's not impossible for a poor person to become rich. It's just exceedingly unlikely. The odds are stacked against them.

I will re-iterate again that I am NOT a proponent of total elimination of the profit motive. I am a proponent of strict regulation, so that while there is still a significant ability for one to earn more income with his or her talents and dedication, it is kept within the bounds of reason for what a single person is really contributing to society. I care far more about the progress of humanity as a whole than I do about the individual. Society's main goal is the progress of humanity as a whole, not the enrichment of a select few and the expense of the majority.

Theyre only going to create more jobs if they have more of their money. The more theyre able to keep, the more theyll make which benefits the lower ****

Nice theory. Too bad it doesn't work. Trickle down economics works in reality about as well as communism does. And incidentally, I would be perfectly in favour or providing the rich with the option of either paying their money to the government, or putting the exact same percentage of their wealth directly into company growth. I don't care - but either way, the money should serve the progress of humanity, not a handful of individuals. A company's growth will do that. A guy buying three yachts, and expensive piece of shiny rock, and a couple of mansions won't have nearly the same effect.

So, in other words its in your interest to have 5 new jobs created rather than 1 or 2. Everyone starts a business with the idea of working hard and having it PAY OFF. Rich people arent like those guys you see in the informercials talking about sitting on the beach all day while you make money.

I would wager that most rich people are exactly like the guys on the infomercials, at least with respect to the goal of leading a luxurious, easy life. Why else would you want your business to pay off? Believe me - if intelligent people really believed in these get-rich quick schemes, they'd be doing them rather than starting up a business, which is much riskier.

I mean you said it yourself "EVENTUALLY" you wont have to work hard.

It doesn't matter. The end result is still a desire to be lazy. How you get to that stage is irrelevant to the motivation.

Not all employees are lazy, but they have skills that are less needed than others. Its more important that you have someone keeping the business together because well trained CEO's arent exactly a dime a dozen.

Do you trade stocks? Incompetent CEOs are most certainly a dime a dozen, which is why so many new companies end up tanking horribly rather than succeeding. Makes the job of an investor much more difficult, because you have to weed through all the crap to find a decent company to support.

I think its pretty clear you dont like rich people.

I've got nothing against rich people, really. It's the notion of exorbitant wealth and greediness that bother me. A rich philanthropist is A-OK in my books. A person who willingly parts with his cash because he knows that society is more important than he is is worth his weight in gold.

H8sMikeMoore

[QUOTE="pianist"]

[QUOTE="wslacker2"]Just as there are stereotypes on Black, Hispanic, asian, disabled people, and Women, there are stereotypes of rich people. Like that all rich people are Ebenezer Scrooge. Stereotypes of ALL people will never end. Do I think the rich should pay more in taxes than the rest of us? They already do. Should they be relied upon to put my kids thru college, or pay for my medical procedure. Nope.wslacker2

Society as a collective whole generates wealth. No society = no wealth. So the rich have more of an obligation to the people who make it possible for them to be wealthier than the majority than you think they do. If we were still resorting to an 'every man for himself' mentality, do you honestly believe we'd have come as far as we have?

This is especially true of education. Why the hell should a society place the luxuries of a small group of individuals on a higher pedestal than the advancement of the nation (and indeed, humanity) as a whole? Education is the MOST important thing in society, and it is most effective when the people who pursue it are free to pursue it without the distraction and worry of debt. I beat the hell out of my colleagues who were forced to work in university because my scholarships allowed me to devote my time and effort to my studies, not paying for them. And I'm a far more productive individual as a result.

Wealth is built on the back of an educated society. If you are wealthy, you need to do your part to keep that system running, and that means you need to give back a hell of a lot of what you earn - leaving you with only 50 times more than an average person rather than 5000 times more than an average person.

1. They already do.

Not to a great enough extent.

2. Because they are the people who create the means to advance the nation. Who created the telephone? Who created the P.C? The medical devices in our hospitals? et.al.

So? Who made it possible for this technology to be PRACTICAL? Did Bill Gates hand craft every computer himself? Did Alexander Graham Bell put up the telephone lines that made his invention useful? Make no mistake - innovators deserve to be rewarded. They deserve to do better than their peers. But $500/h is plenty better. I don't care what you invent - you're not worth $50 000/h.

3. They already do.

Again, not to a great enough extent. Tax a guy who earns $50 000/h 95% and he's making $2500/h. Oh NOES! Certainly he'll have no motivation to keep working hard! Maybe he'll leave the country, because I'm sure he'd do better elsewhere!

[QUOTE="duxup"]I don't hate the rich. I don't mind if they pay more taxes either.cell_dweller

I have mutliple feelings on this, but it is best to not covet in these situations, I mean just because someone is rich, doesnt mean that their life is full and rich, you know? Then again the reason why people get rich, is because of other people buying their stuff, so it is our fault. For example, art, they can take a urinal, and someone will pay two million because it has a signature on it. My belief, is that people are irrational, certain people play on the irrational behaviors of humans, to make themselves rich.

A lot of people feel that the rich should pay tons of money to support all kinds of other people and pay huge amounts of taxes. And my question is.. why? Why should the rich be penalized so heavily for working hard and succeding? They put in the work, they earned the money.

The_Mac_Daddy

Because they aren't rich.

If they were rich then their tune would change.

Just because they are rich doesn't mean they earned it through hard work. Most of the people I know work around 40 to 60 hours a week hard labor and they are dirt poor. People should be taxed according to their income. If you make a lot of money, you should pay more taxes, if you make little money, you should be taxed less. The difference here is that the rich have more money that can be taxed, while the poor don't. What I don't understand is why do most of the poor people I know don't mind paying taxes even when they can barely afford to survive, yet the rich guy, living in the big house with a pool and sports car complains about taxes and has an"everyone for themselves" mentality.

comparing that to the lottery is completely stupid.

That guy had a plan, other people can follow a plan. You cant follow winning the lottery instructions.

Do what he did, and youll be alright. He was at the bottom of the barrel, worse than any story you're talkig about more than likely. No excuses.

H8sMikeMoore

No, it really isn't. Be realistic, dude. If it were simply a matter of following an easy plan to go from rags to riches, we wouldn't have so many poor people in the world. The cards are stacked against you - and most of these things are beyond your control. It's so simple to say that a person just needs to get educated and get a good job. But the problem is that receiving a good education is not just about a person's natural ability, but also the situation at home and at school. If you come from a poor background, your chances of success are simply lower, and that's really all there is to it. The statistics bear it out. You're not really trying to claim that poor people are just naturally more stupid from birth, are you?

One rags to riches story does not justify a system that will see thousands fail.

[QUOTE="Tjeremiah1988"]not everyone who is rich work hard to get to where they are at and not everyone who is poor lazy and doesnt want to work. There are "poor" people who work harder then most that are rich.wslacker2

Very true, but the common misconception is that most rich people are lazy and got where they were on the back of some poor lay-worker.

I would also like to add that how hard must a rich person work once they are rich to maintain their richness?

[QUOTE="wslacker2"]

[QUOTE="Tjeremiah1988"]not everyone who is rich work hard to get to where they are at and not everyone who is poor lazy and doesnt want to work. There are "poor" people who work harder then most that are rich.Tjeremiah1988

Very true, but the common misconception is that most rich people are lazy and got where they were on the back of some poor lay-worker.

I would also like to add that how hard must a rich person work once they are rich to maintain their richness?

Place your money in safe investments. Done and done.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

are you kidding me? you mean to tell me the warehouse workers in sears work as hard as the CEO's? have you even had a job in your life? I worked at the sears warehouse they hired drop outs, they hired people who knew they could sit in a corner while everyone else worked. These people were some of the least educated people ive ever seen in my life and you have to audacity to say they work just as hard as a CEO?

No. But nor did I say a warehouse worker should earn a CEO's salary. And yes, I have a job, thanks very much. I'm also worked as a self-employed individual, so I know all about the effort that is required to get going with a personal business. Bare in mind that hard work is not necessarily intellectually demanding. The hardest job I've ever had to do was wash dishes for two months, because it was incredibly demanding psychologically (boring, boring work), and because it got the 'joy' of spending 8 hours in a steamy kitchen 6 days a weak. That job is MUCH 'harder' than my current job as a music instructor because I did not enjoy it at all. I got paid $7/h to wash dishes. I get paid $52/h to teach music.

the CEO's keep the company together, the warehouse guys can be replaced because you dont have to work hard at it and you dont have to be educated.

And this is why they're easily exploited. They NEED the work because they're not in demand, and yet they need to eat. And they're going to be stuck in that situation their whole life, because they'll never be able to make enough to save enough to get the education they need to work their way up the ladder, to say nothing of the emotional burden that is placed on them to do so. It's not impossible for a poor person to become rich. It's just exceedingly unlikely. The odds are stacked against them.

I will re-iterate again that I am NOT a proponent of total elimination of the profit motive. I am a proponent of strict regulation, so that while there is still a significant ability for one to earn more income with his or her talents and dedication, it is kept within the bounds of reason for what a single person is really contributing to society. I care far more about the progress of humanity as a whole than I do about the individual. Society's main goal is the progress of humanity as a whole, not the enrichment of a select few and the expense of the majority.

Theyre only going to create more jobs if they have more of their money. The more theyre able to keep, the more theyll make which benefits the lower ****

Nice theory. Too bad it doesn't work. Trickle down economics works in reality about as well as communism does. And incidentally, I would be perfectly in favour or providing the rich with the option of either paying their money to the government, or putting the exact same percentage of their wealth directly into company growth. I don't care - but either way, the money should serve the progress of humanity, not a handful of individuals. A company's growth will do that. A guy buying three yachts, and expensive piece of shiny rock, and a couple of mansions won't have nearly the same effect.

So, in other words its in your interest to have 5 new jobs created rather than 1 or 2. Everyone starts a business with the idea of working hard and having it PAY OFF. Rich people arent like those guys you see in the informercials talking about sitting on the beach all day while you make money.

I would wager that most rich people are exactly like the guys on the infomercials, at least with respect to the goal of leading a luxurious, easy life. Why else would you want your business to pay off? Believe me - if intelligent people really believed in these get-rich quick schemes, they'd be doing them rather than starting up a business, which is much riskier.

I mean you said it yourself "EVENTUALLY" you wont have to work hard.

It doesn't matter. The end result is still a desire to be lazy. How you get to that stage is irrelevant to the motivation.

Not all employees are lazy, but they have skills that are less needed than others. Its more important that you have someone keeping the business together because well trained CEO's arent exactly a dime a dozen.

Do you trade stocks? Incompetent CEOs are most certainly a dime a dozen, which is why so many new companies end up tanking horribly rather than succeeding. Makes the job of an investor much more difficult, because you have to weed through all the crap to find a decent company to support.

I think its pretty clear you dont like rich people.

I've got nothing against rich people, really. It's the notion of exorbitant wealth and greediness that bother me. A rich philanthropist is A-OK in my books. A person who willingly parts with his cash because he knows that society is more important than he is is worth his weight in gold.

pianist

Working hard includes working smart. To get educated you have to work hard at it.Working hard at dishwasher job dosent mean you're going to become rich, or that you should become rich. using that dish washer job to fuel education to get ahead later in life is working hard. For the people who stay there, it might be HARD to show up everyday but the job its self isnt difficult.

The warehouse jobs around here pay roughly 12-14 dollars an hour. Its actually quite high for entry level work. Keep in mind apartments in this area are extremely cheap. They have more than enough money to goto school and get an education considering we live in an area with more colleges than I can even remember. we have every kind of college you can think of as well. And at one point sears offered a plan to help finance your education. I dont know if that system is still around though. But only a few people took them up on it.

I dont see how trickle down economics dosent work. I mean, as you create things it becomes cheaper over time. The only thing that gets in the way of that are blatant patent and copyright abuses that dont allow competition. I mean if a guy makes product a, I should be able to copy product a entirely and sell it cheaper if I want to.

everyone in america has the idea of being lazy in the golden years. Its called retirement. If someone makes a business thats successful and sells it then by all means if he has the money to support himself for the rest of his life then thats okay. Circulation of money alone stimulates the economy, even if he just keeps his money in the bank that stimulates the economy as it helps the banking institution do business.

I said a well trained CEO. not incompetent.

Im okay with anyone being rich doing anything. The more wealth the better, and the less restrictions means people have more options to get rich.

Im not saying a company should be able to buy out its competition or anything but we need to free up the market, and now is definitely the time for that

[QUOTE="Tjeremiah1988"][QUOTE="wslacker2"]

[QUOTE="Tjeremiah1988"]not everyone who is rich work hard to get to where they are at and not everyone who is poor lazy and doesnt want to work. There are "poor" people who work harder then most that are rich.pianist

Very true, but the common misconception is that most rich people are lazy and got where they were on the back of some poor lay-worker.

I would also like to add that how hard must a rich person work once they are rich to maintain their richness?

Place your money in safe investments. Done and done.

Donald Trump did that and lost every dime he had, and had to gain it back.

A lot of people feel that the rich should pay tons of money to support all kinds of other people and pay huge amounts of taxes. And my question is.. why? Why should the rich be penalized so heavily for working hard and succeding? They put in the work, they earned the money.

The_Mac_Daddy

Some dont work hard at all. :?

Rich people will always be rich even if the poor person does everything in their power to rise to the top. There is no chance for improvement really in my eyes.

Donald Trump did that and lost every dime he had, and had to gain it back.

H8sMikeMoore

:lol:

Then those weren't safe investments, right? I'm not talking stocks. Stocks will always have risk - so you have bigger potential for reward, but bigger potential for loss too. But leave $20 000 000 in a bank account paying crap interest here, and you'll make 600 grand a year. Don't know about you, but that would be more than sufficient for my means. I can't think of anyone who couldn't lead a reasonable lifestyIe on far less than that.

The dude in your video became a millionaire because he had an aptitude for investing. Lots of people can't even handle simple math - and they certainly wouldn't have the ability to handle themselves in the markets. Where do you think the money comes from when people do well in the markets?

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

comparing that to the lottery is completely stupid.

That guy had a plan, other people can follow a plan. You cant follow winning the lottery instructions.

Do what he did, and youll be alright. He was at the bottom of the barrel, worse than any story you're talkig about more than likely. No excuses.

pianist

No, it really isn't. Be realistic, dude. If it were simply a matter of following an easy plan to go from rags to riches, we wouldn't have so many poor people in the world. The cards are stacked against you - and most of these things are beyond your control. It's so simple to say that a person just needs to get educated and get a good job. But the problem is that receiving a good education is not just about a person's natural ability, but also the situation at home and at school. If you come from a poor background, your chances of success are simply lower, and that's really all there is to it. The statistics bear it out. You're not really trying to claim that poor people are just naturally more stupid from birth, are you?

One rags to riches story does not justify a system that will see thousands fail.

I am being realistic. theres some very simple solutions to creating wealth, or at the veyr least being able to sruvive.

I think most poor people are poor because of themselves. Theyre their own worst enemy. That guy decided that he would not follow in the footsteps of someone who did bad things and he made it.

that guy didnt just come from a poor background. He had absolutely nothing. infact at one point he didnt even have clothes. He decided not to be like his step father and be everything that he isnt.

I think poor people are typically pretty lazy, or just comfortable being at the bottom. The ones who arent get out of it, the ones who dont just say its societies fault.

The moral of the story is, the guy got sick of it. He didnt just say he got sick of it, he actualyl did something. Like ive said ive worked around a lot of poor people and they were all sick of it and said they were done. What did they do? they just kept coming back to the same job getting their hours cut while not even bothering finding a NEW job.\ so much as looking for education.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

Donald Trump did that and lost every dime he had, and had to gain it back.

pianist

:lol:

Then those weren't safe investments, right? I'm not talking stocks. Stocks will always have risk - so you have bigger potential for reward, but bigger potential for loss too. But leave $20 000 000 in a bank account paying crap interest here, and you'll make 600 grand a year. Don't know about you, but that would be more than sufficient for my means. I can't think of anyone who couldn't lead a reasonable lifestyIe on far less than that.

The dude in your video became a millionaire because he had an aptitude for investing. Lots of people can't even handle simple math - and they certainly wouldn't have the ability to handle themselves in the markets. Where do you think the money comes from when people do well in the markets?

theres plenty of good people at math, whats stopping them from asking for help? thats all he did. theres plenty of cheap books out there for math, hell theres even the internet. most people have computers at this point or at the very least can have access to them.

I personally think theres no excuse with all the free information out there. I mean even if you cant get on the internet, even if you cant get on a computer.... you DEFINITELY know someone who can print out pages from a webpage explaining how to solve a math problem.

[QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

A lot of people feel that the rich should pay tons of money to support all kinds of other people and pay huge amounts of taxes. And my question is.. why? Why should the rich be penalized so heavily for working hard and succeding? They put in the work, they earned the money.

Skylarkell

Some dont work hard at all. :?

Rich people will always be rich even if the poor person does everything in their power to rise to the top. There is no chance for improvement really in my eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58vkmQklbdU

theres a chance for improvement.

[QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

comparing that to the lottery is completely stupid.

That guy had a plan, other people can follow a plan. You cant follow winning the lottery instructions.

Do what he did, and youll be alright. He was at the bottom of the barrel, worse than any story you're talkig about more than likely. No excuses.

H8sMikeMoore

No, it really isn't. Be realistic, dude. If it were simply a matter of following an easy plan to go from rags to riches, we wouldn't have so many poor people in the world. The cards are stacked against you - and most of these things are beyond your control. It's so simple to say that a person just needs to get educated and get a good job. But the problem is that receiving a good education is not just about a person's natural ability, but also the situation at home and at school. If you come from a poor background, your chances of success are simply lower, and that's really all there is to it. The statistics bear it out. You're not really trying to claim that poor people are just naturally more stupid from birth, are you?

One rags to riches story does not justify a system that will see thousands fail.

I am being realistic. theres some very simple solutions to creating wealth, or at the veyr least being able to sruvive.

I think most poor people are poor because of themselves. Theyre their own worst enemy. That guy decided that he would not follow in the footsteps of someone who did bad things and he made it.

that guy didnt just come from a poor background. He had absolutely nothing. infact at one point he didnt even have clothes. He decided not to be like his step father and be everything that he isnt.

I think poor people are typically pretty lazy, or just comfortable being at the bottom. The ones who arent get out of it, the ones who dont just say its societies fault.

The moral of the story is, the guy got sick of it. He didnt just say he got sick of it, he actualyl did something. Like ive said ive worked around a lot of poor people and they were all sick of it and said they were done. What did they do? they just kept coming back to the same job getting their hours cut while not even bothering finding a NEW job.\ so much as looking for education.

it doesnt just work out like that. Because someone is poor you figure they are lazy and doesnt want out of their condition? Again, most poor people work harder than most rich people. Not everyone can come out of a troubled place and blossom with success.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

comparing that to the lottery is completely stupid.

That guy had a plan, other people can follow a plan. You cant follow winning the lottery instructions.

Do what he did, and youll be alright. He was at the bottom of the barrel, worse than any story you're talkig about more than likely. No excuses.

Tjeremiah1988

No, it really isn't. Be realistic, dude. If it were simply a matter of following an easy plan to go from rags to riches, we wouldn't have so many poor people in the world. The cards are stacked against you - and most of these things are beyond your control. It's so simple to say that a person just needs to get educated and get a good job. But the problem is that receiving a good education is not just about a person's natural ability, but also the situation at home and at school. If you come from a poor background, your chances of success are simply lower, and that's really all there is to it. The statistics bear it out. You're not really trying to claim that poor people are just naturally more stupid from birth, are you?

One rags to riches story does not justify a system that will see thousands fail.

I am being realistic. theres some very simple solutions to creating wealth, or at the veyr least being able to sruvive.

I think most poor people are poor because of themselves. Theyre their own worst enemy. That guy decided that he would not follow in the footsteps of someone who did bad things and he made it.

that guy didnt just come from a poor background. He had absolutely nothing. infact at one point he didnt even have clothes. He decided not to be like his step father and be everything that he isnt.

I think poor people are typically pretty lazy, or just comfortable being at the bottom. The ones who arent get out of it, the ones who dont just say its societies fault.

The moral of the story is, the guy got sick of it. He didnt just say he got sick of it, he actualyl did something. Like ive said ive worked around a lot of poor people and they were all sick of it and said they were done. What did they do? they just kept coming back to the same job getting their hours cut while not even bothering finding a NEW job.\ so much as looking for education.

it doesnt just work out like that. Because someone is poor you figure they are lazy and doesnt want out of their condition? Again, most poor people work harder than most rich people. Not everyone can come out of a troubled place and blossom with success.

I dont think poor people work harder than rich people. At all. Ive known waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many poor people to fall for that. Everyone thinks they work harder than the next guy.

Not all poor people are lazy. Theres millions of different reasons for people not making it. The trick is to look into the mirror and wondering why YOU arent doing it and not why society isnt "allowing you."

[QUOTE="Tjeremiah1988"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

comparing that to the lottery is completely stupid.

That guy had a plan, other people can follow a plan. You cant follow winning the lottery instructions.

Do what he did, and youll be alright. He was at the bottom of the barrel, worse than any story you're talkig about more than likely. No excuses.

H8sMikeMoore

No, it really isn't. Be realistic, dude. If it were simply a matter of following an easy plan to go from rags to riches, we wouldn't have so many poor people in the world. The cards are stacked against you - and most of these things are beyond your control. It's so simple to say that a person just needs to get educated and get a good job. But the problem is that receiving a good education is not just about a person's natural ability, but also the situation at home and at school. If you come from a poor background, your chances of success are simply lower, and that's really all there is to it. The statistics bear it out. You're not really trying to claim that poor people are just naturally more stupid from birth, are you?

One rags to riches story does not justify a system that will see thousands fail.

I am being realistic. theres some very simple solutions to creating wealth, or at the veyr least being able to sruvive.

I think most poor people are poor because of themselves. Theyre their own worst enemy. That guy decided that he would not follow in the footsteps of someone who did bad things and he made it.

that guy didnt just come from a poor background. He had absolutely nothing. infact at one point he didnt even have clothes. He decided not to be like his step father and be everything that he isnt.

I think poor people are typically pretty lazy, or just comfortable being at the bottom. The ones who arent get out of it, the ones who dont just say its societies fault.

The moral of the story is, the guy got sick of it. He didnt just say he got sick of it, he actualyl did something. Like ive said ive worked around a lot of poor people and they were all sick of it and said they were done. What did they do? they just kept coming back to the same job getting their hours cut while not even bothering finding a NEW job.\ so much as looking for education.

it doesnt just work out like that. Because someone is poor you figure they are lazy and doesnt want out of their condition? Again, most poor people work harder than most rich people. Not everyone can come out of a troubled place and blossom with success.

I dont think poor people work harder than rich people. At all. Ive known waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many poor people to fall for that. Everyone thinks they work harder than the next guy.

Not all poor people are lazy. Theres millions of different reasons for people not making it. The trick is to look into the mirror and wondering why YOU arent doing it and not why society isnt "allowing you."

I think poor people do in fact work harder than most that are rich. Once most that are rich, they become lazy and figure the world is theres. They feel they no longer have to work as hard as they may have done because of their position.

[QUOTE="Skylarkell"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

A lot of people feel that the rich should pay tons of money to support all kinds of other people and pay huge amounts of taxes. And my question is.. why? Why should the rich be penalized so heavily for working hard and succeding? They put in the work, they earned the money.

H8sMikeMoore

Some dont work hard at all. :?

Rich people will always be rich even if the poor person does everything in their power to rise to the top. There is no chance for improvement really in my eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58vkmQklbdU

theres a chance for improvement.

One dude, theres millions out there. I loved that movie though. I just feel for the mexcian working at the chinese food place or the other guy working at Mc Donalds. Even if you have smarts, rich people will continue to invest and make money.

Look at all the heir and heiress that do nothing to get millions and millions.

And if the governemnt only cares about making money from the middle class who barely has enough to make money to pay for their house and not even ask for anything from the rich.

I dont believe in an income tax, many millionaires got that way by working hard, they tie their business income into their personal income and get taxed to hell.

The Fair Tax is the way to go. The more money rich people spend, the more they are taxed. People who don't have the money to spend will pay very little tax. It satisfies the liberals, it satisfies the conservatives.

The reason the government will not enact it: it take power away from government and places it in the hands of the people. It restrains the system of patronage that has consumed the government.

A guy can get an education by graduating at a top well known ranked College and get a job that requires him to just sit at a desk and look pretty while he makes six figures. Theres something wrong with that.Tjeremiah1988

If you earn the education you should reap the rewards.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="Tjeremiah1988"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

comparing that to the lottery is completely stupid.

That guy had a plan, other people can follow a plan. You cant follow winning the lottery instructions.

Do what he did, and youll be alright. He was at the bottom of the barrel, worse than any story you're talkig about more than likely. No excuses.

Tjeremiah1988

No, it really isn't. Be realistic, dude. If it were simply a matter of following an easy plan to go from rags to riches, we wouldn't have so many poor people in the world. The cards are stacked against you - and most of these things are beyond your control. It's so simple to say that a person just needs to get educated and get a good job. But the problem is that receiving a good education is not just about a person's natural ability, but also the situation at home and at school. If you come from a poor background, your chances of success are simply lower, and that's really all there is to it. The statistics bear it out. You're not really trying to claim that poor people are just naturally more stupid from birth, are you?

One rags to riches story does not justify a system that will see thousands fail.

I am being realistic. theres some very simple solutions to creating wealth, or at the veyr least being able to sruvive.

I think most poor people are poor because of themselves. Theyre their own worst enemy. That guy decided that he would not follow in the footsteps of someone who did bad things and he made it.

that guy didnt just come from a poor background. He had absolutely nothing. infact at one point he didnt even have clothes. He decided not to be like his step father and be everything that he isnt.

I think poor people are typically pretty lazy, or just comfortable being at the bottom. The ones who arent get out of it, the ones who dont just say its societies fault.

The moral of the story is, the guy got sick of it. He didnt just say he got sick of it, he actualyl did something. Like ive said ive worked around a lot of poor people and they were all sick of it and said they were done. What did they do? they just kept coming back to the same job getting their hours cut while not even bothering finding a NEW job.\ so much as looking for education.

it doesnt just work out like that. Because someone is poor you figure they are lazy and doesnt want out of their condition? Again, most poor people work harder than most rich people. Not everyone can come out of a troubled place and blossom with success.

I dont think poor people work harder than rich people. At all. Ive known waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many poor people to fall for that. Everyone thinks they work harder than the next guy.

Not all poor people are lazy. Theres millions of different reasons for people not making it. The trick is to look into the mirror and wondering why YOU arent doing it and not why society isnt "allowing you."

I think poor people do in fact work harder than most that are rich. Once most that are rich, they become lazy and figure the world is theres. They feel they no longer have to work as hard as they may have done because of their position.

You're just stereotyping rich people. I bet youre anti racist too arent you. (Not implying hating rich people is racism, im saying stereotyping is bad across the board)

Working hard includes working smart. To get educated you have to work hard at it.Working hard at dishwasher job dosent mean you're going to become rich, or that you should become rich. using that dish washer job to fuel education to get ahead later in life is working hard. For the people who stay there, it might be HARD to show up everyday but the job its self isnt difficult.

The job is difficult. That's one of the reasons you do your best not to get stuck with it. Using a difficult job to get an easier, higher paying job is indeed working smart - but again, you don't need nearly so much 'motivation' to pursue that goal. And frankly, getting education isn't necessarily going to lead to wealth, either. I have greater earning potential with a Master of Music degree than I had with nothing. But I have far less earning power than a person with a Bachelor of Engineering degree. Not that I really care, mind you, since I'm not the least bit interested in engineering but am very interested in music - but the reality remains that the system is very much geared to reward people in particular circumstances, not hard work. It's that myth about the rich working harder that I'm attacking.

The warehouse jobs around here pay roughly 12-14 dollars an hour. Its actually quite high for entry level work. Keep in mind apartments in this area are extremely cheap. They have more than enough money to goto school and get an education considering we live in an area with more colleges than I can even remember. we have every kind of college you can think of as well. And at one point sears offered a plan to help finance your education. I dont know if that system is still around though. But only a few people took them up on it.

That's all well and good - but it still doesn't explain why a person needs more than a few hundred dollars an hour to have the motivation to excel and take risks. I'm not arguing that there aren't unmotivated people in the world, or that they should be be paid as much as a motivated person. Again, I think the profit motive MUST exist to keep our society advancing. I'm simply opposed to the extent to which the gap is allowed to grow, because no one person's contribution is really worth thousands of dollars per hour, no matter what they're doing.

I dont see how trickle down economics dosent work. I mean, as you create things it becomes cheaper over time. The only thing that gets in the way of that are blatant patent and copyright abuses that dont allow competition. I mean if a guy makes product a, I should be able to copy product a entirely and sell it cheaper if I want to.

It doesn't work because humans are greedy - very much the same reason that communism won't work, ironically. So you put more money in the hands of the rich, but instead of spending it on further development of their business, they hoard it or spend it on themselves. Or they invest it somewhere else in the world, so that the net gain for the society that gave them the money to spend is next to nothing. This economic system has been tried several times in the past, and it never led to the economic growth that was forecast by its proponents.

everyone in america has the idea of being lazy in the golden years. Its called retirement. If someone makes a business thats successful and sells it then by all means if he has the money to support himself for the rest of his life then thats okay. Circulation of money alone stimulates the economy, even if he just keeps his money in the bank that stimulates the economy as it helps the banking institution do business.

Some want retirement much sooner than others. ) Throughout their entire life, most people hold the goal of being lazy. Given the option, how many people would choose to continue working if given the chance to be set for life without working? Not many. Only those who get real satisfaction from their job or feel an obligation to their society - and it's pretty safe to say that most people, even those who claim to love their job, wouldn't shed too many tears to part with it in lieu of total freedom. I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with claiming that if you're poor, you're lazy, though.

I said a well trained CEO. not incompetent.

Lots of incompetent CEOs have good credentials. But I understand your meaning - you're talking about CEOs that can deliver the goods. And yes, they should be paid much more than the worker in their box factory. But not thousands of times more.

Im okay with anyone being rich doing anything. The more wealth the better, and the less restrictions means people have more options to get rich.

I'm OK with anyone getting rich doing anything, provided they're willing to give much of it back to the society that allowed for their wealth. They'll still be living the good life by comparison to most. The very good life. And so I'm all for less restriction on MEANS to get rich, because as you've correctly identified, people getting rich IS good for society - but only if their wealth is used for societal gain. I'm sure glad I can invest, because if I'm ever going to be rich, it'll be through that, not through my music career. And rest assured that if I do become wealthy, I will happily pay my taxes and give back to the society that props me up. Not doing too badly thus far... so yay for stocks!

Im not saying a company should be able to buy out its competition or anything but we need to free up the market, and now is definitely the time for that

I'm not against the notion of the free market, nor individual wealth. Just excessive wealth. Before you ask, I can't identify what 'excessive' is, because it's an opinion. Personally, I don't see why anyone would need more than $500/h to justify hard work. If you need more than that to not be unmotivated, I really don't know what to say.

H8sMikeMoore

[QUOTE="Tjeremiah1988"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="Tjeremiah1988"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

comparing that to the lottery is completely stupid.

That guy had a plan, other people can follow a plan. You cant follow winning the lottery instructions.

Do what he did, and youll be alright. He was at the bottom of the barrel, worse than any story you're talkig about more than likely. No excuses.

H8sMikeMoore

No, it really isn't. Be realistic, dude. If it were simply a matter of following an easy plan to go from rags to riches, we wouldn't have so many poor people in the world. The cards are stacked against you - and most of these things are beyond your control. It's so simple to say that a person just needs to get educated and get a good job. But the problem is that receiving a good education is not just about a person's natural ability, but also the situation at home and at school. If you come from a poor background, your chances of success are simply lower, and that's really all there is to it. The statistics bear it out. You're not really trying to claim that poor people are just naturally more stupid from birth, are you?

One rags to riches story does not justify a system that will see thousands fail.

I am being realistic. theres some very simple solutions to creating wealth, or at the veyr least being able to sruvive.

I think most poor people are poor because of themselves. Theyre their own worst enemy. That guy decided that he would not follow in the footsteps of someone who did bad things and he made it.

that guy didnt just come from a poor background. He had absolutely nothing. infact at one point he didnt even have clothes. He decided not to be like his step father and be everything that he isnt.

I think poor people are typically pretty lazy, or just comfortable being at the bottom. The ones who arent get out of it, the ones who dont just say its societies fault.

The moral of the story is, the guy got sick of it. He didnt just say he got sick of it, he actualyl did something. Like ive said ive worked around a lot of poor people and they were all sick of it and said they were done. What did they do? they just kept coming back to the same job getting their hours cut while not even bothering finding a NEW job.\ so much as looking for education.

it doesnt just work out like that. Because someone is poor you figure they are lazy and doesnt want out of their condition? Again, most poor people work harder than most rich people. Not everyone can come out of a troubled place and blossom with success.

I dont think poor people work harder than rich people. At all. Ive known waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many poor people to fall for that. Everyone thinks they work harder than the next guy.

Not all poor people are lazy. Theres millions of different reasons for people not making it. The trick is to look into the mirror and wondering why YOU arent doing it and not why society isnt "allowing you."

I think poor people do in fact work harder than most that are rich. Once most that are rich, they become lazy and figure the world is theres. They feel they no longer have to work as hard as they may have done because of their position.

You're just stereotyping rich people. I bet youre anti racist too arent you. (Not implying hating rich people is racism, im saying stereotyping is bad across the board)

No. And besides I said most not all. The same way you came to the conclusion about poor people based on what you've seen, I come to my conclusion about what Ive seen about most rich people.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="Skylarkell"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

A lot of people feel that the rich should pay tons of money to support all kinds of other people and pay huge amounts of taxes. And my question is.. why? Why should the rich be penalized so heavily for working hard and succeding? They put in the work, they earned the money.

Skylarkell

Some dont work hard at all. :?

Rich people will always be rich even if the poor person does everything in their power to rise to the top. There is no chance for improvement really in my eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58vkmQklbdU

theres a chance for improvement.

One dude, theres millions out there. I loved that movie though. I just feel for the mexcian working at the chinese food place or the other guy working at Mc Donalds. Even if you have smarts, rich people will continue to invest and make money.

Look at all the heir and heiress that do nothing to get millions and millions.

And if the governemnt only cares about making money from the middle class who barely has enough to make money to pay for their house and not even ask for anything from the rich.

why is that everytime someone brings up a rags to riches story a leftist will always say "thats only one person"

jesus, I think us right wingers need to get a rags to riches database or something because everytime we show you a different person "its one person"

Believe it or not, you can actually do good at mcdonalds. Theres been rags to riches stories of guys working their way up to the top and buying the franchise and then buying a few more. The guy was rich as hell.

the million still belong to their parents which is property. Giving your kid something YOU earned is equal.

I am being realistic. theres some very simple solutions to creating wealth, or at the veyr least being able to sruvive.

I think most poor people are poor because of themselves. Theyre their own worst enemy. That guy decided that he would not follow in the footsteps of someone who did bad things and he made it.

that guy didnt just come from a poor background. He had absolutely nothing. infact at one point he didnt even have clothes. He decided not to be like his step father and be everything that he isnt.

I think poor people are typically pretty lazy, or just comfortable being at the bottom. The ones who arent get out of it, the ones who dont just say its societies fault.

The moral of the story is, the guy got sick of it. He didnt just say he got sick of it, he actualyl did something. Like ive said ive worked around a lot of poor people and they were all sick of it and said they were done. What did they do? they just kept coming back to the same job getting their hours cut while not even bothering finding a NEW job.\ so much as looking for education.

H8sMikeMoore

And he deserves kudos for that, along with a superior pay cheque to the unmotivated. Just not TOO superior. I'd go out on a limb and say I'm enriching peoples' lives far more with my musical endeavors than I am with my investing, but I do better with the investing financially.

No. And besides I said most not all. The same way you came to the conclusion about poor people based on what you've seen, I come to my conclusion about what Ive seen about most rich people.

Tjeremiah1988

I didnt stereotype poor people. I said theyre their own worst enemy. Theres different reasons for being poor, all it takes is a look in the mirror and youll start doing better.. You said rich people think they own the world. A lot of rich people dont even have lives because theyre so busy.

You probably never even met a real rich person. Guys like bill gates, donald trump etc represent the most wealthy in this coutry. theyre people to look up to. I respect them both (even if I hate windows)

why is that everytime someone brings up a rags to riches story a leftist will always say "thats only one person"

jesus, I think us right wingers need to get a rags to riches database or something because everytime we show you a different person "its one person"

Believe it or not, you can actually do good at mcdonalds. Theres been rags to riches stories of guys working their way up to the top and buying the franchise and then buying a few more. The guy was rich as hell.

the million still belong to their parents which is property. Giving your kid something YOU earned is equal.

H8sMikeMoore

The point is that statistically, most people remain poor, and most people don't like being poor. They just can't find a way not to be poor. And also statistically, if you come from a poor background, you are more likely to be poor. If you come from a rich background, you're more likely to be rich.

It's not 'just one person,' but the people who go from rags to riches are a very small minority of the poor population. That's why they're inspirations and we make movies about them.

[QUOTE="jetpower3"]

It's unfair to say that everyone who is wealthy did it at the expense of someone else/ a lot of other people. There are plenty of people in this world who have made it well on their own in small operations/ sole proprietorship without having other people carry them on their shoulders to success. Similarly they are also plenty of blue collared millionaires in the world. I wouldn't quite say that exploitation is the key to success. It's just working hard and working smart at the same time. Or so the story would go. I can accept my story just as well as I can accept yours.

pianist

That depends on how you define wealthy. But if you're talking about exorbitant wealth, it simply isn't possible to generate it on your own. If you do it through a business, you're exploiting the hard work of many other people to reap your massive salary. If you do it through investing, you're taking money away from a lot of other people. Sure, YOU made the right decision, but a lot of people had to be used to get where you ended up.

If you gamble your way to exorbitant wealth, you're just born with a horse shoe up your behind...

When you look at any business that's earning the big bucks, you have owners and upper management making a huge amount of cash, and then you have a hundreds or thousands of people who are the ones making the business successful that are being paid practically nothing by comparison. No matter how you look at it, the ones at the top are dependent on the ones that are working for them to make as much as they do, because simply put, one person or even 1000 people couldn't run Coca Cola Corporation on their own.

And since when was hiring someone to work for you exploiting?! Last time I checked, all those people who work for Coca Cola get paid as well. It is called an agreement. They aren't slaves, they don't have to work for Coca-Cola. But they agreed to the agreement Coca-Cola offered and said that they would work for so-and-so hours for so-and-so amount of money. If the workers don't like it, they can quit. That's how society works.

It isn't exploitation.

Yes, they get paid less, but they didn't take the risks. Big risk, big reward.

Poor people don't hire other poor people. If we start taxing the rich, it will have a dripple effect where less people will be hired, and people will lose jobs. We can't assume that they will just settle for having less profits.

[QUOTE="Skylarkell"][QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"][QUOTE="Skylarkell"][QUOTE="The_Mac_Daddy"]

A lot of people feel that the rich should pay tons of money to support all kinds of other people and pay huge amounts of taxes. And my question is.. why? Why should the rich be penalized so heavily for working hard and succeding? They put in the work, they earned the money.

H8sMikeMoore

Some dont work hard at all. :?

Rich people will always be rich even if the poor person does everything in their power to rise to the top. There is no chance for improvement really in my eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58vkmQklbdU

theres a chance for improvement.

One dude, theres millions out there. I loved that movie though. I just feel for the mexcian working at the chinese food place or the other guy working at Mc Donalds. Even if you have smarts, rich people will continue to invest and make money.

Look at all the heir and heiress that do nothing to get millions and millions.

And if the governemnt only cares about making money from the middle class who barely has enough to make money to pay for their house and not even ask for anything from the rich.

Believe it or not, you can actually do good at mcdonalds. Theres been rags to riches stories of guys working their way up to the top and buying the franchise and then buying a few more. The guy was rich as hell.

actually working at a mcdonald's will proberbly get you more money than if you went to college and got a skilled job as virtually everyone leaves after a year so in 2 years you can be restraunt manager and in another 4 you can be reginal manager earning over $140,000

[QUOTE="pianist"][QUOTE="jetpower3"]

It's unfair to say that everyone who is wealthy did it at the expense of someone else/ a lot of other people. There are plenty of people in this world who have made it well on their own in small operations/ sole proprietorship without having other people carry them on their shoulders to success. Similarly they are also plenty of blue collared millionaires in the world. I wouldn't quite say that exploitation is the key to success. It's just working hard and working smart at the same time. Or so the story would go. I can accept my story just as well as I can accept yours.

helium_flash

That depends on how you define wealthy. But if you're talking about exorbitant wealth, it simply isn't possible to generate it on your own. If you do it through a business, you're exploiting the hard work of many other people to reap your massive salary. If you do it through investing, you're taking money away from a lot of other people. Sure, YOU made the right decision, but a lot of people had to be used to get where you ended up.

If you gamble your way to exorbitant wealth, you're just born with a horse shoe up your behind...

When you look at any business that's earning the big bucks, you have owners and upper management making a huge amount of cash, and then you have a hundreds or thousands of people who are the ones making the business successful that are being paid practically nothing by comparison. No matter how you look at it, the ones at the top are dependent on the ones that are working for them to make as much as they do, because simply put, one person or even 1000 people couldn't run Coca Cola Corporation on their own.

And since when was hiring someone to work for you exploiting?! Last time I checked, all those people who work for Coca Cola get paid as well. It is called an agreement. They aren't slaves, they don't have to work for Coca-Cola. But they agreed to the agreement Coca-Cola offered and said that they would work for so-and-so hours for so-and-so amount of money. If the workers don't like it, they can quit. That's how society works.

It isn't exploitation.

Yes, they get paid less, but they didn't take the risks. Big risk, big reward.

Poor people don't hire other poor people. If we start taxing the rich, it will have a dripple effect where less people will be hired, and people will lose jobs. We can't assume that they will just settle for having less profits.

Right you are. And H8s. Hell, this topic just reminds me of why H8s is one of my favorite users, and judging by this, you may be as well.

Keep up the good work, guys.

[QUOTE="Tjeremiah1988"]

No. And besides I said most not all. The same way you came to the conclusion about poor people based on what you've seen, I come to my conclusion about what Ive seen about most rich people.

H8sMikeMoore

I didnt stereotype poor people. I said theyre their own worst enemy. Theres different reasons for being poor, all it takes is a look in the mirror and youll start doing better.. You said rich people think they own the world. A lot of rich people dont even have lives because theyre so busy.

You probably never even met a real rich person. Guys like bill gates, donald trump etc represent the most wealthy in this coutry. theyre people to look up to. I respect them both (even if I hate windows)

yes you did stereotype poor people based on what you witnessedand yes Ive meant a rich person. Ive meant Donald Trump, heck I even look up to the guy and once I received 2 tix to hear him speak at one of his conventions.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

I am being realistic. theres some very simple solutions to creating wealth, or at the veyr least being able to sruvive.

I think most poor people are poor because of themselves. Theyre their own worst enemy. That guy decided that he would not follow in the footsteps of someone who did bad things and he made it.

that guy didnt just come from a poor background. He had absolutely nothing. infact at one point he didnt even have clothes. He decided not to be like his step father and be everything that he isnt.

I think poor people are typically pretty lazy, or just comfortable being at the bottom. The ones who arent get out of it, the ones who dont just say its societies fault.

The moral of the story is, the guy got sick of it. He didnt just say he got sick of it, he actualyl did something. Like ive said ive worked around a lot of poor people and they were all sick of it and said they were done. What did they do? they just kept coming back to the same job getting their hours cut while not even bothering finding a NEW job.\ so much as looking for education.

pianist

And he deserves kudos for that, along with a superior pay cheque to the unmotivated. Just not TOO superior. I'd go out on a limb and say I'm enriching peoples' lives far more with my musical endeavors than I am with my investing, but I do better with the investing financially.

[QUOTE="H8sMikeMoore"]

why is that everytime someone brings up a rags to riches story a leftist will always say "thats only one person"

jesus, I think us right wingers need to get a rags to riches database or something because everytime we show you a different person "its one person"

Believe it or not, you can actually do good at mcdonalds. Theres been rags to riches stories of guys working their way up to the top and buying the franchise and then buying a few more. The guy was rich as hell.

the million still belong to their parents which is property. Giving your kid something YOU earned is equal.

pianist

The point is that statistically, most people remain poor, and most people don't like being poor. They just can't find a way not to be poor. And also statistically, if you come from a poor background, you are more likely to be poor. If you come from a rich background, you're more likely to be rich.

It's not 'just one person,' but the people who go from rags to riches are a very small minority of the poor population. That's why they're inspirations and we make movies about them.

Instead of using our tax dollars to have a welfare system that keeps people poor id rather have the government print how-to financial books.

Then we might see some changes.