Why do people think that Hit ler was christian?

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Hitler believed in Christ. Thus he is a christian. Silenthps

Like curono said (in another thread), people inevitable (willingly or not) get lost in semantics.

[QUOTE="mywalletsgone"]

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

By the end of his reign he was an atheist for the most part, he was also a drug addict so that could explain some of it.. he,mussolini and stalin.. basically the worst of the worst people back then were all atheist.

Espada12

Hahaha this guy

Yeah forgot him to! and pol pot, though some think he isn't for just one statement he made.. even though he clearly said he doesn't believe in god.

Regarding the drug addict bit, I hope you're talking about medication drugs.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="ferrari2001"]Hitler believed in Christ. Thus he is a christian. Teenaged

Like curono said (in another thread), people inevitable (willingly or not) get lost in semantics.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] Muslims also believe in Christ. So I guess they're Christians too huh?Silenthps

Like curono said (in another thread), people inevitable (willingly or not) get lost in semantics.

Muslims also believe Jesus to be a Muslim by definition and not God incarnate. So no.

[QUOTE="Espada12"]

[QUOTE="mywalletsgone"]

Hahaha this guy

mywalletsgone

Yeah forgot him to! and pol pot, though some think he isn't for just one statement he made.. even though he clearly said he doesn't believe in god.

Regarding the drug addict bit, I hope you're talking about medication drugs.

Apparently he was on meth, his doctor was giving him these tablets that contained it or some nonsense like that.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] Muslims also believe in Christ. So I guess they're Christians too huh?Silenthps

Like curono said (in another thread), people inevitable (willingly or not) get lost in semantics.

They don't believe he is the Messiah. They believe he was one of God's prophets, a mere man, and not God's son. And by that belief, therefore, they don't understand why God would let one of his prophets be crucified.

Because he said so. That's enough for arguments in OT.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] Muslims also believe in Christ. So I guess they're Christians too huh?Silenthps

Like curono said (in another thread), people inevitable (willingly or not) get lost in semantics.

They believe he was a lesser (yet respectable) prophet than Mohammed.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]To believe he existed is different than believing he is what the Bible says he is.

Like curono said (in another thread), people inevitable (willingly or not) get lost in semantics.

mywalletsgone

Muslims also believe Jesus to be a Muslim by definition and not God incarnate. So no.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]To believe he existed is different than believing he is what the Bible says he is.

Like curono said (in another thread), people inevitable (willingly or not) get lost in semantics.

Teenaged

They believe he was a lesser (yet respectable) prophet than Mohammed.

[QUOTE="mywalletsgone"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] Well the thing is, Muslims believe more then Christ existing. They also believe Him to be the messiah, to be born of a virgin, did all kinds of miracles etc... so should they be considered Christian? Silenthps

Muslims also believe Jesus to be a Muslim by definition and not God incarnate. So no.

That all depends on whether Hitler had genuine faith in Jesus or just a belief. If he had genuine faith, he'd be a Christian by that definition even if he was a Jew hating aryan to him.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] Well the thing is, Muslims believe more then Christ existing. They also believe Him to be the messiah, to be born of a virgin, did all kinds of miracles etc... so should they be considered Christian? Silenthps

They believe he was a lesser (yet respectable) prophet than Mohammed.

Besides, I thought that the criteria placed by Christianity about when one is a Christian is not just to believe that Jesus was the messiah, but that he is the Lord and Savior of humanity through which one can obtain heaven, the only son of God and part of the Trinity.

Do Muslims believe all that?

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="mywalletsgone"]

Muslims also believe Jesus to be a Muslim by definition and not God incarnate. So no.

mywalletsgone

That all depends on whether Hitler had genuine faith in Jesus or just a belief. If he had genuine faith, he'd be a Christian by that definition even if he was a Jew hating aryan to him.

But he would have genuine faith in his own twisted view of Jesus, and not the Jesus of the Bible, so therefore, he would not be a Christian.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] Well the thing is, Muslims believe more then Christ existing. They also believe Him to be the messiah, to be born of a virgin, did all kinds of miracles etc... so should they be considered Christian? Silenthps

They believe he was a lesser (yet respectable) prophet than Mohammed.

The meaning of Jesus as messiah in Islam is different to the meaning given by Christians.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Nope they dont believe he is the messiah.

They believe he was a lesser (yet respectable) prophet than Mohammed.

Teenaged

Besides, I thought that the criteria placed by Christianity about when one is a Christian is not just to believe that Jesus was the messiah, but that he is the Lord and Savior of humanity through which one can obtain heaven, the only son of God and part of the Trinity.

Do Muslims believe all that?

He's not arguing that Muslims are Christians...

He's not arguing that Muslims are Christians...

J-man45

Well the thing is, Muslims believe more then Christ existing. They also believe Him to be the messiah, to be born of a virgin, did all kinds of miracles etc... so should they be considered Christian?Silenthps

...to which I have to reply with something that shows that even what he described to be the Muslim belief about Jesus isnt enough to call them Christian.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Nope they dont believe he is the messiah.

They believe he was a lesser (yet respectable) prophet than Mohammed.

mywalletsgone

The meaning of Jesus as messiah in Islam is different to the meaning given by Christians.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]Well the thing is, Muslims believe more then Christ existing. They also believe Him to be the messiah, to be born of a virgin, did all kinds of miracles etc... so should they be considered Christian?Teenaged

...to which I have to reply with something that shows that even what he described to be the Muslim belief about Jesus isnt enough to call them Christian.

Yeah, he asked that to make a point about Hitler Read back a bit.

[QUOTE="mywalletsgone"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]Exactly, they have the wrong view of Jesus. So when Hitler says Jesus is a Jew hating Aryan, when the Bible never implies that in the slightest, He shouldn't be considered Christian either. J-man45

That all depends on whether Hitler had genuine faith in Jesus or just a belief. If he had genuine faith, he'd be a Christian by that definition even if he was a Jew hating aryan to him.

But he would have genuine faith in his own twisted view of Jesus, and not the Jesus of the Bible, so therefore, he would not be a Christian.

There is a line in Timothy 2:5-6a that pretty much states that salvation comes through trust in Jesus Christ. Does it really matter what one would believe Jesus' views to be?

Regardless, this will probably go nowhere because there are so many contradictory terms and statements in the bible that will prove me wrong, and yet so right in what I really think of all this.

[QUOTE="mywalletsgone"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] There are many Muslims who would say that He is the messiahSilenthps

The meaning of Jesus as messiah in Islam is different to the meaning given by Christians.

Considering we have different denominations and all which vary greatly in what they believe about Jesus and other Biblical issues.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Nope they dont believe he is the messiah.

They believe he was a lesser (yet respectable) prophet than Mohammed.

Teenaged

Besides, I thought that the criteria placed by Christianity about when one is a Christian is not just to believe that Jesus was the messiah, but that he is the Lord and Savior of humanity through which one can obtain heaven, the only son of God and part of the Trinity.

Do Muslims believe all that?

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

[QUOTE="mywalletsgone"]

That all depends on whether Hitler had genuine faith in Jesus or just a belief. If he had genuine faith, he'd be a Christian by that definition even if he was a Jew hating aryan to him.

mywalletsgone

But he would have genuine faith in his own twisted view of Jesus, and not the Jesus of the Bible, so therefore, he would not be a Christian.

There is a line in Timothy 2:5-6a that pretty much states that salvation comes through trust in Jesus Christ. Does it really matter what one would believe Jesus' views to be?

Regardless, this will probably go nowhere because there are so many contradictory terms and statements in the bible that will prove me wrong, and yet so right in what I really think of all this.

But that's my point. If he didn't have a clear view of who Jesus was, we can't be sure he ever knew Jesus.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]Well the thing is, Muslims believe more then Christ existing. They also believe Him to be the messiah, to be born of a virgin, did all kinds of miracles etc... so should they be considered Christian?J-man45

...to which I have to reply with something that shows that even what he described to be the Muslim belief about Jesus isnt enough to call them Christian.

Yeah, he asked that to make a point about Hitler Read back a bit.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] There are many Muslims who would say that He is the messiahSilenthps

Besides, I thought that the criteria placed by Christianity about when one is a Christian is not just to believe that Jesus was the messiah, but that he is the Lord and Savior of humanity through which one can obtain heaven, the only son of God and part of the Trinity.

Do Muslims believe all that?

Until you can successfuly equate them, dont bring them up.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]

[QUOTE="mywalletsgone"]

The meaning of Jesus as messiah in Islam is different to the meaning given by Christians.

Teenaged

Considering we have different denominations and all which vary greatly in what they believe about Jesus and other Biblical issues.

[QUOTE="mywalletsgone"]

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

But he would have genuine faith in his own twisted view of Jesus, and not the Jesus of the Bible, so therefore, he would not be a Christian.

J-man45

There is a line in Timothy 2:5-6a that pretty much states that salvation comes through trust in Jesus Christ. Does it really matter what one would believe Jesus' views to be?

Regardless, this will probably go nowhere because there are so many contradictory terms and statements in the bible that will prove me wrong, and yet so right in what I really think of all this.

But that's my point. If he didn't have a clear view of who Jesus was, we can't be sure he ever knew Jesus.

I'm not exactly disagreeing with you there, and nor am I debating whether Hitler was an out an out Christian because I don't think he was in the sense of what your average Chrisitan is. My thoughts are whether (in a scenario where God and salvation and heaven exist); whether Hitler would be saved or not.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]I agree with that. Just like how the Jesus of Hitler is different than the Jesus of the Christians.

Silenthps

Considering we have different denominations and all which vary greatly in what they believe about Jesus and other Biblical issues.

All denominations and sects profess to follow the Bible AFAIK.

Did Hitler say that Jesus was an aryan that hates Jews?

sweet another religious thread!

[QUOTE="J-man45"]

[QUOTE="mywalletsgone"]

There is a line in Timothy 2:5-6a that pretty much states that salvation comes through trust in Jesus Christ. Does it really matter what one would believe Jesus' views to be?

Regardless, this will probably go nowhere because there are so many contradictory terms and statements in the bible that will prove me wrong, and yet so right in what I really think of all this.

mywalletsgone

But that's my point. If he didn't have a clear view of who Jesus was, we can't be sure he ever knew Jesus.

I'm not exactly disagreeing with you there, and nor am I debating whether Hitler was an out an out Christian because I don't think he was in the sense of what your average Chrisitan is. My thoughts are whether (in a scenario where God and salvation and heaven exist); whether Hitler would be saved or not.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:The old has gone, the new is here!

If Hitler was transformed by a genuine belief in the saving grace of Jesus Christ, he would have shown positive traits, such as the fruit of the spirit, found in Galatians 5. Since he did not live a life that would suggest he was a real Christian, it's doubtful he was really saved.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]Who are those Christians that represent the entire religion and how did you or anyone come to the conclusion that they are the right ones?

Considering we have different denominations and all which vary greatly in what they believe about Jesus and other Biblical issues.

Teenaged

All denominations and sects profess to follow the Bible AFAIK.

Did Hitler say that Jesus was an aryan that hates Jews?

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"]I guess I should have reworded it "the Jesus of Hitler is different than the Jesus of the Bible". And nowhere in the Bible does it say Jesus is an aryan that hates Jews. Silenthps

All denominations and sects profess to follow the Bible AFAIK.

Did Hitler say that Jesus was an aryan that hates Jews?

We have several denominations and sects who all profess to base their views strictly on the Bible and yet they can be quite different in their beliefs about Jesus.

Unless I see a convincing quote, I wont take your word for it.

[QUOTE="Silenthps"][QUOTE="Teenaged"]"Jesus of the Bible" is too vague.

All denominations and sects profess to follow the Bible AFAIK.

Did Hitler say that Jesus was an aryan that hates Jews?

Teenaged

We have several denominations and sects who all profess to base their views strictly on the Bible and yet they can be quite different in their beliefs about Jesus.

Unless I see a convincing quote, I wont take your word for it.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"]

[QUOTE="Silenthps"] "Jesus of the Bible" is anything BUT vague. It's written down and concrete. Check the Bible for you self, look for a passages about Jesus being an aryan or of him hating Jews and bring it to this topic as proof. And yes he did, although obviously not using the same wording.Silenthps

We have several denominations and sects who all profess to base their views strictly on the Bible and yet they can be quite different in their beliefs about Jesus.

Unless I see a convincing quote, I wont take your word for it.

I implied that so far, the situation shows that we are a bit unable to use the Bible with 100% certainty (because even if you are 100% certain about your take on the Bible, you'd be hard pressed to prove beyond doubt everyone else's take on it -that disagrees with yours- is wrong).

I wont.

I'll be out for a few hours, brah.

If you want answer to anything you like and I'll be back later.

Hitler sang in the choir as a boy in the catholic church and even dreamed of becoming a priest.

Of course, he seemed to abandon those ways as an adult, but he did have a catholic upbringing.

Also, Hitler attended a catholic school.

Hitler believed in Christ. Thus he is a christian. ferrari2001

Believing in Christ and following him are two different things. James 2:14-25 talks a bit about this. Anyone can claim to believe in Christ but only a christian will follow his teachings. I don't think Hitler was following Christ's teachings with his record.

Hitler believed in Christ. Thus he is a christian. ferrari2001

I know for sure, He was definitely not Jewish