Why do you believe (Or not believe) in God?

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]This is my view, if I had lived 100 years ago I would believe in god, it would explain alot that cant the explained. But today we can explain things and science does it wellferrari2001

Science has nothing to do with religion. At one time I considered becoming a Quantum Physicist, and yet I believe in God and am actually probably going into the seminary to become a priest. Science cannot explain how the universe ultimitely came to be not even close. And that's where God comes in. If science was so great it would have easily disproved God by now. And dispproved the hundreds of christian miracles that can still be seen in European churches and stuff today and yet they can't.

You realize that Science doesn't just make every discovery at once. We have to discover it for ourselves. Don't use the whole "Science can't explain this, therefore God did it" Card.

Good point, but I still beleive Jesus is the only way to be with God.123625

You're not in the least bit uncomfortable with the idea that ~70% of the population of the Earth will be sent to hell simply because they didn't grow up in an environment that gave them a perspective enabling them to believe that Jesus was the Son of God?

[QUOTE="6_volts"][QUOTE="Hamster-of-Fate"]

god loves us so much that he made a place called hell where people who don't believe in him goes and suffer for all eternity.

Thats just how much he LOVES you all

ManKelly

OH but you cant fergit he still loves you.....BS!

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"]

123625

Ah i see, well the point of christianity is not just offer salvation to the good, but also offer it to bad. It offers salvation to anyone who is repentful and lives in Jesus. Admittably though there are people who do alot of good, but the good doesn't wash away the bad. I feel if God judged that way, he would only be loving us based on what we do, not what we are ;)

And the bible is a great book, why throw it out :o

And thats another thing, Surely people don't need to believe in your god or jesus to be truly sorry for bad things that they've done? You could even argue that somebody being truly sorry for what they've done without having the heaven bit to look forward to would be more sincere than somebody who does.

as for that last question- It's interesting, sure, but to a non-christian like myself, its just a collection of stories and letters. :P

[QUOTE="ManKelly"][QUOTE="6_volts"][QUOTE="Hamster-of-Fate"]

god loves us so much that he made a place called hell where people who don't believe in him goes and suffer for all eternity.

Thats just how much he LOVES you all

6_volts

OH but you cant fergit he still loves you.....BS!

GOD DOESN'T EXIST!!!

*runs away and watches the debate from a distance*

[QUOTE="6_volts"][QUOTE="ManKelly"][QUOTE="6_volts"][QUOTE="Hamster-of-Fate"]

god loves us so much that he made a place called hell where people who don't believe in him goes and suffer for all eternity.

Thats just how much he LOVES you all

Kuhu

OH but you cant fergit he still loves you.....BS!

GOD DOESN'T EXIST!!!

*runs away and watches the debate from a distance*

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]This is my view, if I had lived 100 years ago I would believe in god, it would explain alot that cant the explained. But today we can explain things and science does it wellKuhu

Science has nothing to do with religion. At one time I considered becoming a Quantum Physicist, and yet I believe in God and am actually probably going into the seminary to become a priest. Science cannot explain how the universe ultimitely came to be not even close. And that's where God comes in. If science was so great it would have easily disproved God by now. And dispproved the hundreds of christian miracles that can still be seen in European churches and stuff today and yet they can't.

You realize that Science doesn't just make every discovery at once. We have to discover it for ourselves. Don't use the whole "Science can't explain this, therefore God did it" Card.

but dont you know..... Most people who belive in god are just sheep. they believe in what sounds most apealing to them to a fault. They fallow blindly they dont really think about it. "God" is just there to comfert them. make them feel more important and not afraid of just turning into bark dust when they die. See i have no clue whats going to happen and it doesnt bother me becouse ether way its not going to change. i was told God knows everything that will ever happen so he had to create spacific people just to go to hell and others to go to heaven so if god really does exist my path is already decided. so if god really exist then we dont have any "free will" every thing is already decided because "GOd" is all knowing.

GOD DOESN'T EXIST!!!

*runs away and watches the debate from a distance*

Kuhu

What a compelling argument.

[QUOTE="123625"]Good point, but I still beleive Jesus is the only way to be with God.GabuEx

You're not in the least bit uncomfortable with the idea that ~70% of the population of the Earth will be sent to hell simply because they didn't grow up in an environment that gave them a perspective enabling them to believe that Jesus was the Son of God?

Well I don't know if they are all sent to hell or not, or if its even eternal. I just beleive that Jesus is the only way to get to God. I'm more of a christian agnostic, than hard core "worship jesus or go to hell" kind of christian. Though if there is anywhere within the gospels where Jesus hell is eternal and that those who reject him are sent to hell, i would be interested in knowing. But with sprinkles I was merely pointing out the point of christianity and that it doesn't think humans themselves are bad.

but dont you know..... Most people who belive in god are just sheep. they believe in what sounds most apealing to them to a fault. They fallow blindly they dont really think about it. "God" is just there to comfert them. make them feel more important and not afraid of just turning into bark dust when they die. See i have no clue whats going to happen and it doesnt bother me becouse ether way its not going to change. i was told God knows everything that will ever happen so he had to create spacific people just to go to hell and others to go to heaven so if god really does exist my path is already decided. so if god really exist then we dont have any "free will" every thing is already decided because "GOd" is all knowing.

ManKelly

But don't you know... Your generalization is not accurate?

[QUOTE="ManKelly"]

but dont you know..... Most people who belive in god are just sheep. they believe in what sounds most apealing to them to a fault. They fallow blindly they dont really think about it. "God" is just there to comfert them. make them feel more important and not afraid of just turning into bark dust when they die. See i have no clue whats going to happen and it doesnt bother me becouse ether way its not going to change. i was told God knows everything that will ever happen so he had to create spacific people just to go to hell and others to go to heaven so if god really does exist my path is already decided. so if god really exist then we dont have any "free will" every thing is already decided because "GOd" is all knowing.

harashawn

But don't you know... Your generalization is not accurate?

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"]

Mr_sprinkles

Ah i see, well the point of christianity is not just offer salvation to the good, but also offer it to bad. It offers salvation to anyone who is repentful and lives in Jesus. Admittably though there are people who do alot of good, but the good doesn't wash away the bad. I feel if God judged that way, he would only be loving us based on what we do, not what we are ;)

And the bible is a great book, why throw it out :o

And thats another thing, Surely people don't need to believe in your god or jesus to be truly sorry for bad things that they've done? You could even argue that somebody being truly sorry for what they've done without having the heaven bit to look forward to would be more sincere than somebody who does.

as for that last question- It's interesting, sure, but to a non-christian like myself, its just a collection of stories and letters. :P

Negativity? Wheres?

Well according to Jesus they have to accept him in order to see God, this doesn't mean I think the people who haven't done so during life all go to hell, I just don't know wwhat happens to them, its up to God to judge.

And correction, stories, letters, and biographies ;)

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="123625"]Good point, but I still beleive Jesus is the only way to be with God.123625

You're not in the least bit uncomfortable with the idea that ~70% of the population of the Earth will be sent to hell simply because they didn't grow up in an environment that gave them a perspective enabling them to believe that Jesus was the Son of God?

Well I don't know if they are all sent to hell or not, or if its even eternal. I just beleive that Jesus is the only way to get to God. I'm more of a christian agnostic, than hard core "worship jesus or go to hell" kind of christian. Though if there is anywhere within the gospels where Jesus hell is eternal and that those who reject him are sent to hell, i would be interested in knowing. But with sprinkles I was merely pointing out the point of christianity and that it doesn't think humans themselves are bad.

[QUOTE="ManKelly"]

but dont you know..... Most people who belive in god are just sheep. they believe in what sounds most apealing to them to a fault. They fallow blindly they dont really think about it. "God" is just there to comfert them. make them feel more important and not afraid of just turning into bark dust when they die. See i have no clue whats going to happen and it doesnt bother me becouse ether way its not going to change. i was told God knows everything that will ever happen so he had to create spacific people just to go to hell and others to go to heaven so if god really does exist my path is already decided. so if god really exist then we dont have any "free will" every thing is already decided because "GOd" is all knowing.

harashawn

But don't you know... Your generalization is not accurate?

ok sorry most of the people that get in my face about it and force it down my throat.... i made some people trying to sell there religion to me cry... It was a good feeling... only becouse they where forcing it down my throat.

Well I don't know if they are all sent to hell or not, or if its even eternal. I just beleive that Jesus is the only way to get to God. I'm more of a christian agnostic, than hard core "worship jesus or go to hell" kind of christian. Though if there is anywhere within the gospels where Jesus hell is eternal and that those who reject him are sent to hell, i would be interested in knowing. But with sprinkles I was merely pointing out the point of christianity and that it doesn't think humans themselves are bad.123625

Fair enough.

For the record, I've personally argued in favor of the idea that it isn't a Biblical slam-dunk that belief in Jesus is required to get into heaven, based on what Jesus says in Matthew 25:31-46. The idea that someone can be rewarded simply for believing that something is true has always been a very strange one to me, given that God surely knows that humans can't change what they believe simply because they get threatened with consequences if they don't.

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="123625"]Good point, but I still beleive Jesus is the only way to be with God.Mr_sprinkles

You're not in the least bit uncomfortable with the idea that ~70% of the population of the Earth will be sent to hell simply because they didn't grow up in an environment that gave them a perspective enabling them to believe that Jesus was the Son of God?

Well I don't know if they are all sent to hell or not, or if its even eternal. I just beleive that Jesus is the only way to get to God. I'm more of a christian agnostic, than hard core "worship jesus or go to hell" kind of christian. Though if there is anywhere within the gospels where Jesus hell is eternal and that those who reject him are sent to hell, i would be interested in knowing. But with sprinkles I was merely pointing out the point of christianity and that it doesn't think humans themselves are bad.

Okay, now thats confirmed is there anywhere he says that people who don't follow him go straight to hell? By the way, i still don't pretend to know if Jesus said all the things he said in the gospels.

[QUOTE="123625"]Well I don't know if they are all sent to hell or not, or if its even eternal. I just beleive that Jesus is the only way to get to God. I'm more of a christian agnostic, than hard core "worship jesus or go to hell" kind of christian. Though if there is anywhere within the gospels where Jesus hell is eternal and that those who reject him are sent to hell, i would be interested in knowing. But with sprinkles I was merely pointing out the point of christianity and that it doesn't think humans themselves are bad.GabuEx

Fair enough.

For the record, I've personally argued in favor of the idea that it isn't a Biblical slam-dunk that belief in Jesus is required to get into heaven, based on what Jesus says in Matthew 25:31-46. The idea that someone can be rewarded simply for believing that something is true has always been a very strange one to me, given that God surely knows that humans can't change what they believe simply because they get threatened with consequences if they don't.

Well beleif and repentence.

I'm more likely to believe Odin exists than God. Atleast there is some bloody background info on him! If I want a God, I want a god who I atleast know some "solid" information about.Rikardur

And the Abrahamic version of God have nothing solid in their infomation about God?

I am so sick of these threads. Do a search.the_kidisblack

Here's an idea. Don't post in it.

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]This is my view, if I had lived 100 years ago I would believe in god, it would explain alot that cant the explained. But today we can explain things and science does it wellferrari2001

Science has nothing to do with religion. At one time I considered becoming a Quantum Physicist, and yet I believe in God and am actually probably going into the seminary to become a priest. Science cannot explain how the universe ultimitely came to be not even close. And that's where God comes in. If science was so great it would have easily disproved God by now. And dispproved the hundreds of christian miracles that can still be seen in European churches and stuff today and yet they can't.

Those miracles are an act of nature which are misinterpreted as acts of the divine since everyone in the past was either desperate for food, escape from oppresion, and/or needed a "miracle." And this is history I'm talking about, not science and I'm referring to ALL monothestic and polythestic religions throughout history.

However, since the bible was written in the past, it must be correct, right? Not always. Like I said before, those miracles can be misinterpreted so that's where science comes in. Science can't explain everything but doesn't make assumptions without supportive facts either, and it takes time and better technology. Since we didn't have a better understanding of the universe in the past, it is up to us as of now and the future to figure out how it all happened such as the biblical plagues of Egypt and the Red Sea splitting without having to rely on the bible so much. After all, we are trying to understand God's works, right? Therefore, we must either support the bible with historic and scientific facts or even rectify the bible on how those events happen.

Yes because of my family. I never practiced my faith, nor did I care for it. I just believe in God and Jesus. That's it. [QUOTE="ferrari2001"]

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]This is my view, if I had lived 100 years ago I would believe in god, it would explain alot that cant the explained. But today we can explain things and science does it wellleviathan91

Science has nothing to do with religion. At one time I considered becoming a Quantum Physicist, and yet I believe in God and am actually probably going into the seminary to become a priest. Science cannot explain how the universe ultimitely came to be not even close. And that's where God comes in. If science was so great it would have easily disproved God by now. And dispproved the hundreds of christian miracles that can still be seen in European churches and stuff today and yet they can't.

Those miracles are an act of nature which are misinterpreted as acts of the divine since everyone in the past was either desperate for food, escape from oppresion, and/or needed a "miracle." And this is history I'm talking about, not science and I'm referring to ALL monothestic and polythestic religions throughout history.

However, since the bible was written in the past, it must be correct, right? Not always. Like I said before, those miracles can be misinterpreted so that's where science comes in. Science can't explain everything but doesn't make assumptions without supportive facts either, and it takes time and better technology. Since we didn't have a better understanding of the universe in the past, it is up to us as of now and the future to figure out how it all happened such as the biblical plagues of Egypt and the Red Sea splitting without having to rely on the bible so much. After all, we are trying to understand God's works, right? Therefore, we must either support the bible with historic and scientific facts or even rectify the bible on how those events happen.

Just curious here, using science how would you explain the ressurection?

[QUOTE="Rikardur"]I'm more likely to believe Odin exists than God. Atleast there is some bloody background info on him! If I want a God, I want a god who I atleast know some "solid" information about.123625

And the Abrahamic version of God have nothing solid in their infomation about God?

What is he like in person? What does he look like? Things like that. I need to see a God to believe in one. Not just some burning bush and whatnot.

Just curious here, using science how would you explain the ressurection?

123625

Charles Darwin and Steven Hawking created a riff in the fabric of space/time which caused Jesus to become alive again.

[QUOTE="123625"]

[QUOTE="Rikardur"]I'm more likely to believe Odin exists than God. Atleast there is some bloody background info on him! If I want a God, I want a god who I atleast know some "solid" information about.Rikardur

And the Abrahamic version of God have nothing solid in their infomation about God?

What is he like in person? What does he look like? Things like that. I need to see a God to believe in one. Not just some burning bush and whatnot.

If you saw God, you would explode.

Yes because of my family. I never practiced my faith, nor did I care for it. I just believe in God and Jesus. That's it. [QUOTE="ferrari2001"]

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]This is my view, if I had lived 100 years ago I would believe in god, it would explain alot that cant the explained. But today we can explain things and science does it wellleviathan91

Science has nothing to do with religion. At one time I considered becoming a Quantum Physicist, and yet I believe in God and am actually probably going into the seminary to become a priest. Science cannot explain how the universe ultimitely came to be not even close. And that's where God comes in. If science was so great it would have easily disproved God by now. And dispproved the hundreds of christian miracles that can still be seen in European churches and stuff today and yet they can't.

Those miracles are an act of nature which are misinterpreted as acts of the divine since everyone in the past was either desperate for food, escape from oppresion, and/or needed a "miracle." And this is history I'm talking about, not science and I'm referring to ALL monothestic and polythestic religions throughout history.

However, since the bible was written in the past, it must be correct, right? Not always. Like I said before, those miracles can be misinterpreted so that's where science comes in. Science can't explain everything but doesn't make assumptions without supportive facts either, and it takes time and better technology. Since we didn't have a better understanding of the universe in the past, it is up to us as of now and the future to figure out how it all happened such as the biblical plagues of Egypt and the Red Sea splitting without having to rely on the bible so much. After all, we are trying to understand God's works, right? Therefore, we must either support the bible with historic and scientific facts or even rectify the bible on how those events happen.

Well yea, but you can easily use science, to help prove events that happened in the bible. The bible doesn't contradict science, just as science doesn't contradict the bible. Scientific understanding should not influence you away from religion because of the fact they easily go hand in hand without contradicting themselves.

And these are the miracles I'm talking about, things you can go and see in person today, that cannot be explained by the top scientific minds of our generation

http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/engl_mir.htm

[QUOTE="123625"]

[QUOTE="Rikardur"]I'm more likely to believe Odin exists than God. Atleast there is some bloody background info on him! If I want a God, I want a god who I atleast know some "solid" information about.Rikardur

And the Abrahamic version of God have nothing solid in their infomation about God?

What is he like in person? What does he look like? Things like that. I need to see a God to believe in one. Not just some burning bush and whatnot.

So you would rely on artistic pictures, more than possibly historical texts? Okay.

I guess what it boils down to is I don't believe in god for one reason or another, and so all the rewards and threats and rules and promises from christianity mean little. I'm happy in this life.

If there is a next one and it turns out I was wrong, then i guess god sounds like an understanding guy. I'm sure he could deal with the whole atheism thing. :P

[QUOTE="Rikardur"][QUOTE="123625"]

[QUOTE="Rikardur"]I'm more likely to believe Odin exists than God. Atleast there is some bloody background info on him! If I want a God, I want a god who I atleast know some "solid" information about.123625

And the Abrahamic version of God have nothing solid in their infomation about God?

What is he like in person? What does he look like? Things like that. I need to see a God to believe in one. Not just some burning bush and whatnot.

So you would rely on artistic pictures, more than possibly historical texts? Okay.

God doesn't look like anything??.. God is pure spirit and doesn't have a body, so how are you going to figure out what he looks like? And yes historical texts have a lot about God, just read the bible.

Wow this thread has been very civil for the most part. I may actually come back and have a serious discussion soon. Kuhu

Yes, i am just as surprised as you are!

[QUOTE="leviathan91"]Yes because of my family. I never practiced my faith, nor did I care for it. I just believe in God and Jesus. That's it. [QUOTE="ferrari2001"]

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]This is my view, if I had lived 100 years ago I would believe in god, it would explain alot that cant the explained. But today we can explain things and science does it well123625

Science has nothing to do with religion. At one time I considered becoming a Quantum Physicist, and yet I believe in God and am actually probably going into the seminary to become a priest. Science cannot explain how the universe ultimitely came to be not even close. And that's where God comes in. If science was so great it would have easily disproved God by now. And dispproved the hundreds of christian miracles that can still be seen in European churches and stuff today and yet they can't.

Those miracles are an act of nature which are misinterpreted as acts of the divine since everyone in the past was either desperate for food, escape from oppresion, and/or needed a "miracle." And this is history I'm talking about, not science and I'm referring to ALL monothestic and polythestic religions throughout history.

However, since the bible was written in the past, it must be correct, right? Not always. Like I said before, those miracles can be misinterpreted so that's where science comes in. Science can't explain everything but doesn't make assumptions without supportive facts either, and it takes time and better technology. Since we didn't have a better understanding of the universe in the past, it is up to us as of now and the future to figure out how it all happened such as the biblical plagues of Egypt and the Red Sea splitting without having to rely on the bible so much. After all, we are trying to understand God's works, right? Therefore, we must either support the bible with historic and scientific facts or even rectify the bible on how those events happen.

Just curious here, using science how would you explain the ressurection?

I don't know. Maybe someone dressed up as Jesus and pretended to be him for a day? :? Like I said, science can't explain everything and I don't know how that would relate to science. But just out of curiousity, are there any historic records, besides the bible, that tells us of Jesus's ressurection? Perferably Roman?

I refuse to believe that I'd be condemned to hell for something completely beyond my own control. Dark_Knight6

But you are actually deciding where to go. ~ de arimasu

[QUOTE="Kuhu"]Wow this thread has been very civil for the most part. I may actually come back and have a serious discussion soon. ferrari2001

Yes, i am just as surprised as you are!

So where are we at anyways? Too many quote chains for me to track the place down.

Anyway, what ever happend to having gods 'of' things? That sounded like a much better system.

None of this "my god exists, your concept of god is wrong" it was more like "my god exists and so does yours. but I bet mine would win in a fight"

Anyway, what ever happend to having gods 'of' things? That sounded like a much better system.

None of this "my god exists, your concept of god is wrong" it was more like "my god exists and so does yours. but I bet mine would win in a fight"

Mr_sprinkles

That was a pretty awesome God system. I always wanted to see the Hades vs Zeus brawl :C

[QUOTE="123625"][QUOTE="leviathan91"]Yes because of my family. I never practiced my faith, nor did I care for it. I just believe in God and Jesus. That's it. [QUOTE="ferrari2001"]

[QUOTE="alexmurray"]This is my view, if I had lived 100 years ago I would believe in god, it would explain alot that cant the explained. But today we can explain things and science does it wellleviathan91

Science has nothing to do with religion. At one time I considered becoming a Quantum Physicist, and yet I believe in God and am actually probably going into the seminary to become a priest. Science cannot explain how the universe ultimitely came to be not even close. And that's where God comes in. If science was so great it would have easily disproved God by now. And dispproved the hundreds of christian miracles that can still be seen in European churches and stuff today and yet they can't.

Those miracles are an act of nature which are misinterpreted as acts of the divine since everyone in the past was either desperate for food, escape from oppresion, and/or needed a "miracle." And this is history I'm talking about, not science and I'm referring to ALL monothestic and polythestic religions throughout history.

However, since the bible was written in the past, it must be correct, right? Not always. Like I said before, those miracles can be misinterpreted so that's where science comes in. Science can't explain everything but doesn't make assumptions without supportive facts either, and it takes time and better technology. Since we didn't have a better understanding of the universe in the past, it is up to us as of now and the future to figure out how it all happened such as the biblical plagues of Egypt and the Red Sea splitting without having to rely on the bible so much. After all, we are trying to understand God's works, right? Therefore, we must either support the bible with historic and scientific facts or even rectify the bible on how those events happen.

Just curious here, using science how would you explain the ressurection?

I don't know. Maybe someone dressed up as Jesus and pretended to be him for a day? :? Like I said, science can't explain everything and I don't know how that would relate to science. But just out of curiousity, are there any historic records, besides the bible, that tells us of Jesus's ressurection? Perferably Roman?

I suggest reading books, and letter written by,Ignatius(50−115),Polycarp(69−155), andJustin Martyr(100−165).

They were early fathers of the church, and had direct contact with people of the time including the apostles, and were there for the writting of the New Testament..

Wow this thread has been very civil for the most part. I may actually come back and have a serious discussion soon. Kuhu

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]I refuse to believe that I'd be condemned to hell for something completely beyond my own control. cfamgcn

But you are actually deciding where to go. ~ de arimasu

I don't quite follow what you're saying.

I need proof and the bible offers nonealexmurray

[QUOTE="ferrari2001"]

[QUOTE="Kuhu"]Wow this thread has been very civil for the most part. I may actually come back and have a serious discussion soon. Kuhu

Yes, i am just as surprised as you are!

So where are we at anyways? Too many quote chains for me to track the place down.

pretty much 2 discussions, one about Science vs Religion, and the other about God's historical evidence and Lack of description.

Anyway, what ever happend to having gods 'of' things? That sounded like a much better system.

None of this "my god exists, your concept of god is wrong" it was more like "my god exists and so does yours. but I bet mine would win in a fight"

Mr_sprinkles

And that's where the first commandment comes in.

Anyway, what ever happend to having gods 'of' things? That sounded like a much better system.

None of this "my god exists, your concept of god is wrong" it was more like "my god exists and so does yours. but I bet mine would win in a fight"

Mr_sprinkles

You used to be so cool religion. What happened man, what happened?

[QUOTE="Kuhu"]Wow this thread has been very civil for the most part. I may actually come back and have a serious discussion soon. Mr_sprinkles

:( I feel so unloved.

[QUOTE="cfamgcn"]

[QUOTE="Dark_Knight6"]I refuse to believe that I'd be condemned to hell for something completely beyond my own control. Dark_Knight6

But you are actually deciding where to go. ~ de arimasu

I don't quite follow what you're saying.

You can choose not to go to Hell, that's all. ~ de arimasune :P

[QUOTE="Mr_sprinkles"]

Anyway, what ever happend to having gods 'of' things? That sounded like a much better system.

None of this "my god exists, your concept of god is wrong" it was more like "my god exists and so does yours. but I bet mine would win in a fight"

harashawn

And that's where the first commandment comes in.

1. you shall have no other gods before me, or I'll kick their asses.