Why faith?
This topic is locked from further discussion.
You're supposing that something is there which requires acknowledgement, while the more correct and justifiable answer is that such a things as god, goddess, and gods do not exist or at least no more than any other unfalsifiable non-explanatory concept.
A god is simply an external representation of an individual's own level of ignorance. It embodies what we have a poor understanding of. We are all ignorant to a different extent, but this level of difference is couched in the way we develop our gods or lack thereof. It's why we've cut gods from the infinite, to the many, to the few, and to the one. But like any idea synthesized through the ages, the last one is all that much harder to kill than the first because it's evolved with the best survival traits of the god meme.
God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
"'Faith' means not wanting to know what is true."
    - Friedrich Nietzsche
Â
Faith is easier than thinking.DrummerJon
Unless you think about it....which many do.;)Â I think not believing is easier than thinking.....
That's it in a nutshell I suppose.God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Silver_Dragon17
[QUOTE="DrummerJon"]Faith is easier than thinking.LJS9502_basic
Unless you think about it....which many do.;) I think not believing is easier than thinking.....
True once you decide not to believe it takes the topic off your mind. like "oh santa isn't real, I can finally stop wondering how he gets around the world in one night". Unfortuanatly the process of becoming a nonbeliever requires quite a bit of thought. But yes, faith is about the same as not thinking, thanks for pointing that out.[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="DrummerJon"]Faith is easier than thinking.DrummerJon
Unless you think about it....which many do.;) I think not believing is easier than thinking.....
True once you decide not to believe it takes the topic off your mind. like "oh santa isn't real, I can finally stop wondering how he gets around the world in one night". Unfortuanatly the process of becoming a nonbeliever requires quite a bit of thought. But yes, faith is about the same as not thinking, thanks for pointing that out.That's what you stated the first time...and it was wrong then...and wrong now. It's much harder to have faith in something without "proof"...than it is to say....I don't see it therefore I don't believe it. You are now 0/2.;)
God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Silver_Dragon17
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Gamer556
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
That all depends on what you consider evidence. The Earth, the universe, you, me, science, I consider all of those things to not only be evidence of God's existance, but stone cold proof. But you do not. What would you need to convince you of God's existance?
[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Gamer556
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
Why do people always assume that God doesn't reveal himself at all to anyone? All the things he did in the New and Old Testament still happen today but our current generation is so skeptical. Even if someone pointed out a miracle the world would say "there has to be a rational explination" or if God spoke audibly to someone the world would say "they're clinically insane because they hear voices" and the list goes on...Also, God doesn't send people to be tortured and whatnot. People make the decision to either live for eternity after life apart from him or with him. Why would you, or anyone else, want to live forever with God after you die when you spend your entire short life denying him?Â
If people really wanted to be in heaven with God after death wouldn't they also choose to believe him during life?Â
[QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Kalel559
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
Why do people always assume that God doesn't reveal himself at all to anyone? All the things he did in the New and Old Testament still happen today but our current generation is so skeptical. Even if someone pointed out a miracle the world would say "there has to be a rational explination" or if God spoke audibly to someone the world would say "they're clinically insane because they hear voices" and the list goes on...Also, God doesn't send people to be tortured and whatnot. People make the decision to either live for eternity after life apart from him or with him. Why would you, or anyone else, want to live forever with God after you die when you spend your entire short life denying him?
If people really wanted to be in heaven with God after death wouldn't they also choose to believe him during life?
[QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Silver_Dragon17
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
That all depends on what you consider evidence. The Earth, the universe, you, me, science, I consider all of those things to not only be evidence of God's existance, but stone cold proof. But you do not. What would you need to convince you of God's existance?
Come out in daylight, with everyone there without any electricity and Say i am god perform some miracles explain everything he did and apoligise for being a mean jerkÂ
...leave no scientific evidence behind whatsoever that I did create it, then create beings with the ability to reason and analyze evidence that provides a completely different, and more plausible explanation of how the Universe came into being.cory4513
And what would that scientific evidence look like... a continent in the shape of a smiley face with the caption "I am God"? I guess I have always viewed things from a slightly different perspective, but I have never understood why people think that science and faith are mutually exclusive. I have never seen any scientific evidence that "provide a completely different, and more plausible explanation". The science simply adds to the same explanation (if you care to believe in God). Of course, we like to think that if we can find a scientific explanation, then we've proven that God had nothing to do with it. Anyway, I've met several people who simply chose not to believe in God and who (in their own words) would not believe regardless of what evidence was provided. I am by no means trying to say that anyone here is like that, but there are a lot of people who blindly make a choice to not be religious just as a lot of people blindly make the choice to be religious.Â
There is a decent book called Case for Faith by Lee Strobel that could help answer some questions (or not). Personally, I thought the book was an interesting approach to the subject, but it will probably not change your mind whether you are religious or not. It just provides some good points to consider.
[QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Silver_Dragon17
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
That all depends on what you consider evidence. The Earth, the universe, you, me, science, I consider all of those things to not only be evidence of God's existance, but stone cold proof. But you do not. What would you need to convince you of God's existance?
Thats like me saying Because i have a pencil Evil Sexual Mallicious leprechauns exist in Hawii
Come out in daylight, with everyone there without any electricity and Say i am god perform some miracles explain everything he did and apoligise for being a mean jerk
cory4513
What's the sense in posting about a serious subject like your religious upbringing when you're not even willing to take it seriously?
Are you really young and/or immature?Â
[QUOTE="Kalel559"][QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
cory4513
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
Why do people always assume that God doesn't reveal himself at all to anyone? All the things he did in the New and Old Testament still happen today but our current generation is so skeptical. Even if someone pointed out a miracle the world would say "there has to be a rational explination" or if God spoke audibly to someone the world would say "they're clinically insane because they hear voices" and the list goes on...Also, God doesn't send people to be tortured and whatnot. People make the decision to either live for eternity after life apart from him or with him. Why would you, or anyone else, want to live forever with God after you die when you spend your entire short life denying him?
If people really wanted to be in heaven with God after death wouldn't they also choose to believe him during life?
[QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Silver_Dragon17
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
That all depends on what you consider evidence. The Earth, the universe, you, me, science, I consider all of those things to not only be evidence of God's existance, but stone cold proof. But you do not. What would you need to convince you of God's existance?
Come out in daylight, with everyone there without any electricity and Say i am god perform some miracles explain everything he did and apoligise for being a mean jerkÂ
I'm sorry, but God is not going to do that. "Do not test the Lord, your God."
And God is not a mean jerk.
Thats like me saying Because i have a pencil Evil Sexual Mallicious leprechauns exist in Hawii
cory4513
No it's not. . . .
[QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Silver_Dragon17
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
That all depends on what you consider evidence. The Earth, the universe, you, me, science, I consider all of those things to not only be evidence of God's existance, but stone cold proof. But you do not. What would you need to convince you of God's existance?
God would need to reveal himself to me directly. Until then, I'm not going to take the word of a bunch of ancient superstitious idiots.
Come out in daylight, with everyone there without any electricity and Say i am god perform some miracles explain everything he did and apologise for being a mean jerk cory4513
So it sounds like you have your mind made up already. Would you believe with the miracles but no apology? Something tells me that even if He did these things, you wouldn't believe. By all account that we have of Jesus and prophets performing miracles (not just Christian texts, but also Jewish and Muslim texts refer to such events), there were still people that saw and did not believe. Those people blindly chose to live apart from God.
[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Gamer556
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
That all depends on what you consider evidence. The Earth, the universe, you, me, science, I consider all of those things to not only be evidence of God's existance, but stone cold proof. But you do not. What would you need to convince you of God's existance?
God would need to reveal himself to me directly. Until then, I'm not going to take the word of a bunch of ancient superstitious idiots.
Well, calling God's chosen people "Supersticious idiots" isn't gonna get Him here any faster. He won't reveal Himself to anybody, because then that would not be faith. Sorry.
Why do people always assume that God doesn't reveal himself at all to anyone? All the things he did in the New and Old Testament still happen today but our current generation is so skeptical. Even if someone pointed out a miracle the world would say "there has to be a rational explination" or if God spoke audibly to someone the world would say "they're clinically insane because they hear voices" and the list goes on...
Also, God doesn't send people to be tortured and whatnot. People make the decision to either live for eternity after life apart from him or with him. Why would you, or anyone else, want to live forever with God after you die when you spend your entire short life denying him?
If people really wanted to be in heaven with God after death wouldn't they also choose to believe him during life?
Kalel559
It's because we today have a far more precise understanding of reality, are more keen on using knowledge, and are much more advanced than these primitive barbaric desert peoples. Few people even understand the texts they claim as the word of god.
[QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Kalel559
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
Why do people always assume that God doesn't reveal himself at all to anyone? All the things he did in the New and Old Testament still happen today but our current generation is so skeptical. Even if someone pointed out a miracle the world would say "there has to be a rational explination" or if God spoke audibly to someone the world would say "they're clinically insane because they hear voices" and the list goes on...Also, God doesn't send people to be tortured and whatnot. People make the decision to either live for eternity after life apart from him or with him. Why would you, or anyone else, want to live forever with God after you die when you spend your entire short life denying him?Â
If people really wanted to be in heaven with God after death wouldn't they also choose to believe him during life?Â
Hey, I would love to live forever with God after I die. No objections there. I just don't believe that such a thing can happen.
[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="cory4513"]Thats like me saying Because i have a pencil Evil Sexual Mallicious leprechauns exist in Hawii
cory4513
No it's not. . . .
Yes yes it is All pencils are made by evil lebrachaunsÂ
Pencils are wood and iron. . . . .the universe and all that is in it is organized, and so perfect that there is no way it can be coincidentally designed. . . . . stop mocking my beliefs.
[QUOTE="Kalel559"][QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Gamer556
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
Why do people always assume that God doesn't reveal himself at all to anyone? All the things he did in the New and Old Testament still happen today but our current generation is so skeptical. Even if someone pointed out a miracle the world would say "there has to be a rational explination" or if God spoke audibly to someone the world would say "they're clinically insane because they hear voices" and the list goes on...Also, God doesn't send people to be tortured and whatnot. People make the decision to either live for eternity after life apart from him or with him. Why would you, or anyone else, want to live forever with God after you die when you spend your entire short life denying him?
If people really wanted to be in heaven with God after death wouldn't they also choose to believe him during life?
Hey, I would love to live forever with God after I die. No objections there. I just don't believe that such a thing can happen.
Well, until you can settle your own contradictions don't bring them to the table.[QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Silver_Dragon17
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
That all depends on what you consider evidence. The Earth, the universe, you, me, science, I consider all of those things to not only be evidence of God's existance, but stone cold proof. But you do not. What would you need to convince you of God's existance?
God would need to reveal himself to me directly. Until then, I'm not going to take the word of a bunch of ancient superstitious idiots.
Well, calling God's chosen people "Supersticious idiots" isn't gonna get Him here any faster. He won't reveal Himself to anybody, because then that would not be faith. Sorry.
By today's standards, God's supposed chosen people were, by all means, idiots.
[QUOTE="cory4513"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="cory4513"]Thats like me saying Because i have a pencil Evil Sexual Mallicious leprechauns exist in Hawii
Silver_Dragon17
No it's not. . . .
Yes yes it is All pencils are made by evil lebrachauns
Pencils are wood and iron. . . . .the universe and all that is in it is organized, and so perfect that there is no way it can be coincidentally designed. . . . . stop mocking my beliefs.
Oh ye disbeleiver how can u beleive such wonderful use of leed can be made by ordinary people, how thy write sweet words on thy bark. Oh disbeleiver how can u beleive such heavenly rubber that dusts off so easily be mere handworrk of unnoble machines. How great how sophisticated are though pencil such u may write and prosper
[QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"][QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Gamer556
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
That all depends on what you consider evidence. The Earth, the universe, you, me, science, I consider all of those things to not only be evidence of God's existance, but stone cold proof. But you do not. What would you need to convince you of God's existance?
God would need to reveal himself to me directly. Until then, I'm not going to take the word of a bunch of ancient superstitious idiots.
Well, calling God's chosen people "Supersticious idiots" isn't gonna get Him here any faster. He won't reveal Himself to anybody, because then that would not be faith. Sorry.
By today's standards, God's supposed chosen people were, by all means, idiots.
And those people were. . . . .:question:
Some of them were very smart. None were idiots. And today's standards are kinda stupid, if you ask me.
[QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Kalel559"][QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Kalel559
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
Why do people always assume that God doesn't reveal himself at all to anyone? All the things he did in the New and Old Testament still happen today but our current generation is so skeptical. Even if someone pointed out a miracle the world would say "there has to be a rational explination" or if God spoke audibly to someone the world would say "they're clinically insane because they hear voices" and the list goes on...Also, God doesn't send people to be tortured and whatnot. People make the decision to either live for eternity after life apart from him or with him. Why would you, or anyone else, want to live forever with God after you die when you spend your entire short life denying him?
If people really wanted to be in heaven with God after death wouldn't they also choose to believe him during life?
Hey, I would love to live forever with God after I die. No objections there. I just don't believe that such a thing can happen.
Well, until you can settle your own contradictions don't bring them to the table.Where have I contradicted myself? I said I did not hate the ideas of God and an afterlife, but IÂ do not believe that they are true. That is not a contradiction.
Oh ye disbeleiver how can u beleive such wonderful use of leed can be made by ordinary people, how thy write sweet words on thy bark. Oh disbeleiver how can u beleive such heavenly rubber that dusts off so easily be mere handworrk of unnoble machines. How great how sophisticated are though pencil such u may write and prosper
cory4513
Believing what you want is fine...flaming someone else's beliefs is not.:|
[QUOTE="cory4513"]Oh ye disbeleiver how can u beleive such wonderful use of leed can be made by ordinary people, how thy write sweet words on thy bark. Oh disbeleiver how can u beleive such heavenly rubber that dusts off so easily be mere handworrk of unnoble machines. How great how sophisticated are though pencil such u may write and prosper
LJS9502_basic
Believing what you want is fine...flaming someone else's beliefs is not.:|
I don't even dignify crap like that with an answer.:roll:
Pencils are wood and iron. . . . .the universe and all that is in it is organized, and so perfect that there is no way it can be coincidentally designed. . . . . stop mocking my beliefs.
Silver_Dragon17
The above is not a sound argument. You assume that the organization of the universe requires a supernatural divine agent. The anthropic principle is a natural and explanatory means of showing how such a universe can be conceptualized without having to assume the existence of some baseless supernatural entity to be responsible for it.Â
The idea that the universe without God was designed by "chance" is false. A naturalist worldview does not mean that things occured from chance, and as humans it is the basis for any effective means of knowledge. A supernaturalist worldview ascribes to intuition and revelation, two methods which are not only imprecise but have been consistently wrong.Â
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="cory4513"]Oh ye disbeleiver how can u beleive such wonderful use of leed can be made by ordinary people, how thy write sweet words on thy bark. Oh disbeleiver how can u beleive such heavenly rubber that dusts off so easily be mere handworrk of unnoble machines. How great how sophisticated are though pencil such u may write and prosper
Silver_Dragon17
Believing what you want is fine...flaming someone else's beliefs is not.:|
I don't even dignify crap like that with an answer.:roll:
oh i wll certainlu ask head leprechaun to forgive your soul and u may prosper in hawaii with hot surfer babesÂ
[QUOTE="Kalel559"][QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Kalel559"][QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Gamer556
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
Why do people always assume that God doesn't reveal himself at all to anyone? All the things he did in the New and Old Testament still happen today but our current generation is so skeptical. Even if someone pointed out a miracle the world would say "there has to be a rational explination" or if God spoke audibly to someone the world would say "they're clinically insane because they hear voices" and the list goes on...Also, God doesn't send people to be tortured and whatnot. People make the decision to either live for eternity after life apart from him or with him. Why would you, or anyone else, want to live forever with God after you die when you spend your entire short life denying him?
If people really wanted to be in heaven with God after death wouldn't they also choose to believe him during life?
Hey, I would love to live forever with God after I die. No objections there. I just don't believe that such a thing can happen.
Well, until you can settle your own contradictions don't bring them to the table.Where have I contradicted myself? I said I did not hate the ideas of God and an afterlife, but I do not believe that they are true. That is not a contradiction.
You want to live with God forever after death. You don't want to live with God during your life.Maybe it's just me but those two sentences don't seem to blend well.Â
[QUOTE="Gamer556"][QUOTE="Silver_Dragon17"]God does not want you to be forced into believing Him. When Jesus came out of the tomb, the Apostle Thomas said "Unless I see Him with my own eyes, and feel His wounds with my own hands, I will not believe it." When Thomas saw Jesus, he was on the ground, crying. He didn't need the proof anymore, but Jesus said "Go ahead; feel my wounds if that is what it takes for you to believe." Thomas declined. Jesus said "You only believe because you see. But blessed is he who believes without seeing."
God wants us to believe in Him, not by seeing, but by believing.
Silver_Dragon17
With the alternative being eternal damnation, I'd say he somewhat expects us to believe in him, no?
The quetion remains: Why does God need our unconditional faith? If I do not believe in God, but still live a good life, why should I be eternally damned? With the stakes being so high, he should atleast provide me some evidence that he exists.
That all depends on what you consider evidence. The Earth, the universe, you, me, science, I consider all of those things to not only be evidence of God's existance, but stone cold proof. But you do not. What would you need to convince you of God's existance?
I fail to see how the Earth, universe, etc. is proof of God's existence. I can guess what your response is.By today's standards, God's supposed chosen people were, by all means, idiots. Gamer556
I disagree... to some extent. They were a self governing nation that attained a level of socialism of which many of today's liberals would be envious (all the sharing and caring for one another, community property, community labor, etc. to make sure nobody had to go hungry when another had food). They had laws concerning what was clean and unclean and how to cleans those who were unclean in order to prevent the spread of diseases. And when they saw miracles that are not even understood by today's sciences, they believed in God. They were idiots to the extent that they often fell away from their religion even when faced with miracles. When that happened, they died off or went into slavery, or something of that nature.
By comparison, today's science has a tendency to ignore things that it can't explain (miracles that have been well documented are viewed as pure fiction or anything else to discredit the document). We live in a culture where many are homeless or starve while others are wealthy. We (as a general culture) ignore what science has taught us about diseases and continue to spread STDs as though we had no knowledge of them. So I really don't think we can look too highly on "today's standards" and use those to judge people who simply had fewer technological advancements.
The idea that the universe without God was designed by "chance" is false. A naturalist worldview does not mean that things occured from chance, and as humans it is the basis for any effective means of knowledge.  Atrus
I could be wrong, but every theory I've heard (besides creationism, anyway) does rely on "chance" for the development of living cells... or even cells that could sustain life but are not necessarily alive. No experiment or observation has documented spontaneous generation. The closest that experiments have come to spontaneous generation has been the creation of amino acids (and maybe proteins) under conditions that were not likely to have occurred during the earth's formation (as we currently believe it occurred).
I could be wrong, but every theory I've heard (besides creationism, anyway) does rely on "chance" for the development of living cells... or even cells that could sustain life but are not necessarily alive. No experiment or observation has documented spontaneous generation. The closest that experiments have come to spontaneous generation has been the creation of amino acids (and maybe proteins) under conditions that were not likely to have occurred during the earth's formation (as we currently believe it occurred).
drgrady
The naturalistic explaination does not call on true randomness. Think of the universe as one super-system which contains several smaller systems, which contains smaller systems etc. Every system works in tangent to one another and depending on the system in question, can only achieve a set amount of results.Â
In this way, life does not exist out of pure randomness, but a systhesis of all these systems having made a system for which life can occour. The best way to couch the anthropic principle is to look at it like a lottery. From the available probabilties that the universe can achieve is a probability for life, we know this because we are here. So however unlikely this probability of life may be there is always a probability for life.
In any lottery, there is always a winner no matter how big the odds are. If you have a 1/X chance of winning, there will always be a winner no matter how large the x may be. 100, 1000, 1x10^1000000000000000 etc. In this case, 'we' are the winners.
The mistake that most people make is that they assume that the probabilities are so small, that it is impossible. However, any mention of impossibility cannot be made until you understand the still ongoing research of the universe itself. A universe which may have 2 dimensions of time, exists in more than 3 dimensions of space and 1 dimension of time, and where time occours after the universe began and before it ends.
It may seem improbable, but as far as we know life could be common to stable universes.Â
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