Why I'm not a Christian anymore. What about you?

I'm not, after being heavily involved in church until I was 17 or so, because I can't move past the fact the Bible was written by men. It was picked apart, Gospels taken out, and the general error/fiction of the writing of any man. With the Bible being the building block for my faith, and losing faith in it, it was a house of cards for me from there.btaylor2404

I was raised Catholic, drifting into Agnosticism, and finally into Atheism, which is where I am today. Honestly, I think Religion is **** but I do try to be respectful of people, even If I don't respect their beliefs.

Science can't explain emotions and why people fall in love. the_foreign_guy

There are several widely accepted theories on hormones, psychology and the chemicals that make up our brains that explain where emotions come from, and why people are attracted to one another, based on what characteristics would make a suitable long-term vs. a suitable short-term mate. In short, Yes it does.

I did some heavy thinking about the universe and the people in it and realized that a God couldn't exists. Plus there are hundreds of religions out there that picking one that is right is like playing Russian Roulette. So I just decided not to play.

[QUOTE="the_foreign_guy"] Science can't explain emotions and why people fall in love. Brendissimo35

There are several widely accepted theories on hormones, psychology and the chemicals that make up our brains that explain where emotions come from, and why people are attracted to one another, based on what characteristics would make a suitable long-term vs. a suitable short-term mate. In short, Yes it does.

[QUOTE="btaylor2404"]I'm not, after being heavily involved in church until I was 17 or so, because I can't move past the fact the Bible was written by men. It was picked apart, Gospels taken out, and the general error/fiction of the writing of any man. With the Bible being the building block for my faith, and losing faith in it, it was a house of cards for me from there.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="btaylor2404"]I'm not, after being heavily involved in church until I was 17 or so, because I can't move past the fact the Bible was written by men. It was picked apart, Gospels taken out, and the general error/fiction of the writing of any man. With the Bible being the building block for my faith, and losing faith in it, it was a house of cards for me from there.btaylor2404

There are several widely accepted theories on...why people are attracted to one another, based on what characteristics would make a suitable long-term vs. a suitable short-term mate. In short, Yes it does.Brendissimo35

The big bang is the most widely accepted theory about the formation of the universe. There are several theories, but only the big bang has stood up to the most criticism over the years. It is quickly becoming a very well-supported theory.foxhound_fox

Continue reading till the end of Leviticus 25:

47 " 'If an alien or a temporary resident among you becomes rich and one of your countrymen becomes poor and sells himself to the alien living among you or to a member of the alien's clan, 48 he retains the right of redemption after he has sold himself. One of his relatives may redeem him: 49 An uncle or a cousin or any blood relative in his clan may redeem him. Or if he prospers, he may redeem himself. 50 He and his buyer are to count the time from the year he sold himself up to the Year of Jubilee. The price for his release is to be based on the rate paid to a hired man for that number of years. 51 If many years remain, he must pay for his redemption a larger share of the price paid for him. 52 If only a few years remain until the Year of Jubilee, he is to compute that and pay for his redemption accordingly. 53 He is to be treated as a man hired from year to year; you must see to it that his owner does not rule over him ruthlessly.

54 " 'Even if he is not redeemed in any of these ways, he and his children are to be released in the Year of Jubilee, 55 for the Israelites belong to me as servants. They are my servants, whom I brought out of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

[QUOTE="TheFlush"]

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)TheFlush

Concerning his family, refer to Leviticus 25:54-55 that I posted above.

The rest isn't that bad. He serves for six years and is released on the seventh. If he wishes to stay, he gets an ear piercing and is allowed to serve under his master for the rest of his life.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

TheFlush

Here, the daughter isn't allowed to be free unless the man who the father sells her to tries to sell her to foreigners, if she gets married to his son is not treated as a daughter, or if she marries him not treated as a wife. She'll be allowed to leave immediately as the contract is considered null and void. Her family could also buy her back.

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

TheFlush

[QUOTE="Brendissimo35"]There are several widely accepted theories on...why people are attracted to one another, based on what characteristics would make a suitable long-term vs. a suitable short-term mate. In short, Yes it does.AirGuitarist87

Unfortunately for your stance neuroscience/biopsychology has been aware of the neurological systems involved in creating feelings of love, bonding/attachment, and trust for quite some time now. Go and wiki "oxytocin" and "vasopressin" to see what I'm talking about.

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="Brendissimo35"]There are several widely accepted theories on...why people are attracted to one another, based on what characteristics would make a suitable long-term vs. a suitable short-term mate. In short, Yes it does.gameguy6700

Unfortunately for your stance neuroscience/biopsychology has been aware of the neurological systems involved in creating feelings of love, bonding/attachment, and trust for quite some time now. Go and wiki "oxytocin" and "vasopressin" to see what I'm talking about.

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"] That's not science. The benefits of what a "suitable" mate is varies way too much from one person to another (aka unreliable). If there was a certain characteristic that is beneficial then surely everyone would be going after the same types of people? How does it explain fetishes? I find trying to reduce psychology to numbers and objective measurements like throwing a meter ruler into the ocean.LJS9502_basic

Unfortunately for your stance neuroscience/biopsychology has been aware of the neurological systems involved in creating feelings of love, bonding/attachment, and trust for quite some time now. Go and wiki "oxytocin" and "vasopressin" to see what I'm talking about.

You seem to be missing the simple fact that the brain is what creates the mind. This is indisputable. As a result of this, whatever we find out about the brain has implications for the mind. Besides, behavior can also be studied scientifically.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

Unfortunately for your stance neuroscience/biopsychology has been aware of the neurological systems involved in creating feelings of love, bonding/attachment, and trust for quite some time now. Go and wiki "oxytocin" and "vasopressin" to see what I'm talking about.

gameguy6700

You seem to be missing the simple fact that the brain is what creates the mind. This is indisputable. As a result of this, whatever we find out about the brain has implications for the mind. Besides, behavior can also be studied scientifically.

Unfortunately for your stance neuroscience/biopsychology has been aware of the neurological systems involved in creating feelings of love, bonding/attachment, and trust for quite some time now. Go and wiki "oxytocin" and "vasopressin" to see what I'm talking about.gameguy6700

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Science can only answer as to how the body works....

LJS9502_basic

You seem to be missing the simple fact that the brain is what creates the mind. This is indisputable. As a result of this, whatever we find out about the brain has implications for the mind. Besides, behavior can also be studied scientifically.

Again, the mind is a product of the brain. If you wish to dispute this then please find me an account of someone who has no brain yet remains a fully functional person. Here, I'll make it easier for you. Just find me an account of someone who suffered severe brain damage and didn't have any adverse symptoms afterward.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

You seem to be missing the simple fact that the brain is what creates the mind. This is indisputable. As a result of this, whatever we find out about the brain has implications for the mind. Besides, behavior can also be studied scientifically.

gameguy6700

Again, the mind is a product of the brain. If you wish to dispute this then please find me an account of someone who has no brain yet remains a fully functional person. Here, I'll make it easier for you. Just find me an account of someone who suffered severe brain damage and didn't have any adverse symptoms afterward.

Again, the mind is a product of the brain. If you wish to dispute this then please find me an account of someone who has no brain yet remains a fully functional person. Here, I'll make it easier for you. Just find me an account of someone who suffered severe brain damage and didn't have any adverse symptoms afterward.gameguy6700

*facepalm*

I've never been christian, nor do I have any intention to become one.

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Nope. I don't consider the mind to be physical. The brain is physical. The mind...no.

LJS9502_basic

Again, the mind is a product of the brain. If you wish to dispute this then please find me an account of someone who has no brain yet remains a fully functional person. Here, I'll make it easier for you. Just find me an account of someone who suffered severe brain damage and didn't have any adverse symptoms afterward.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

Again, the mind is a product of the brain. If you wish to dispute this then please find me an account of someone who has no brain yet remains a fully functional person. Here, I'll make it easier for you. Just find me an account of someone who suffered severe brain damage and didn't have any adverse symptoms afterward.

Bluff_Master_2

I left formal Christianity after becoming too lazy to go and be bored to death every week at church. After a few weeks of missing Mass, I began to wonder whether it was really all that important to me and couldn't come up with anything. I then realized that the idea of a man in the sky punishing me for not going into an old building every week to sing songs, read snippets of a book, and listen to a motivational speaker...well, it was just ludicrous. So I stopped going to church.Paladin_King

[QUOTE="Bluff_Master_2"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]The mind is not physical...it's thoughts, feelings etc.;)

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Nope. I don't consider the mind to be physical. The brain is physical. The mind...no.

LJS9502_basic

Again, the mind is a product of the brain. If you wish to dispute this then please find me an account of someone who has no brain yet remains a fully functional person. Here, I'll make it easier for you. Just find me an account of someone who suffered severe brain damage and didn't have any adverse symptoms afterward.

I'm not saying that the mind is physical. I'm saying that it's ultimately controlled by something that is physical (the brain). There are mountains of evidence to support this. For example:

- There's a protozoan brain parasite which infects rats and cats (the parasite is transmitted to whenever a cat eats a rat and whenever a rat eats cat feces). A normal rat is scared to death by the smell of cat urine. A rat infected with this brain parasite, however, LOVES the smell of cat urine and instead of hiding will run out to follow the scent. No other behaviors are affected, the rats are still scared of everything else, it's just the smell of cat urine that doesn't bother them anymore. This would be like a parasite that infects humans and leaves them normal except that it gives them the insatiable urge to go up to grizzly bears and kiss them.

- There's a parasite that infects a certain species of crab. It renders the crab asexual and then makes the crab build a nest for the parasite's young and tend to them as if they were its own children (for the record it's known that the parasite floods the crab's brain with oxytocin in order to elicit the maternal behavior).

- Phineas Gage

- Any psychotropic drug. If the brain didn't affect the mind then how do drugs like LSD, marijuana, and ethanol exert their effects? What about psychiatric drugs like SSRIs and MAOIs (antidepressants), amphetamines (ADHD medications), and antipsychotics?

- Destroy certain brain areas and people no longer show certain behaviors or feelings anymore. For example, it's been shown that people with calcified amygdalas cannot experience fear.

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Nope. I don't consider the mind to be physical. The brain is physical. The mind...no.

LJS9502_basic

Again, the mind is a product of the brain. If you wish to dispute this then please find me an account of someone who has no brain yet remains a fully functional person. Here, I'll make it easier for you. Just find me an account of someone who suffered severe brain damage and didn't have any adverse symptoms afterward.

I'm not saying that the mind is physical. I'm saying that it's ultimately controlled by something that is physical (the brain). There are mountains of evidence to support this. For example:

- There's a protozoan brain parasite which infects rats and cats (the parasite is transmitted to whenever a cat eats a rat and whenever a rat eats cat feces). A normal rat is scared to death by the smell of cat urine. A rat infected with this brain parasite, however, LOVES the smell of cat urine and instead of hiding will run out to follow the scent. No other behaviors are affected, the rats are still scared of everything else, it's just the smell of cat urine that doesn't bother them anymore. This would be like a parasite that infects humans and leaves them normal except that it gives them the insatiable urge to go up to grizzly bears and kiss them.

- There's a parasite that infects a certain species of crab. It renders the crab asexual and then makes the crab build a nest for the parasite's young and tend to them as if they were its own children (for the record it's known that the parasite floods the crab's brain with oxytocin in order to elicit the maternal behavior).

- Phineas Gage

- Any psychotropic drug. If the brain didn't affect the mind then how do drugs like LSD, marijuana, and ethanol exert their effects? What about psychiatric drugs like SSRIs and MAOIs (antidepressants), amphetamines (ADHD medications), and antipsychotics?

- Destroy certain brain areas and people no longer show certain behaviors or feelings anymore. For example, it's been shown that people with calcified amygdalas cannot experience fear.

gameguy6700

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

I'm not saying that the mind is physical. I'm saying that it's ultimately controlled by something that is physical (the brain). There are mountains of evidence to support this. For example:

- There's a protozoan brain parasite which infects rats and cats (the parasite is transmitted to whenever a cat eats a rat and whenever a rat eats cat feces). A normal rat is scared to death by the smell of cat urine. A rat infected with this brain parasite, however, LOVES the smell of cat urine and instead of hiding will run out to follow the scent. No other behaviors are affected, the rats are still scared of everything else, it's just the smell of cat urine that doesn't bother them anymore. This would be like a parasite that infects humans and leaves them normal except that it gives them the insatiable urge to go up to grizzly bears and kiss them.

- There's a parasite that infects a certain species of crab. It renders the crab asexual and then makes the crab build a nest for the parasite's young and tend to them as if they were its own children (for the record it's known that the parasite floods the crab's brain with oxytocin in order to elicit the maternal behavior).

- Phineas Gage

- Any psychotropic drug. If the brain didn't affect the mind then how do drugs like LSD, marijuana, and ethanol exert their effects? What about psychiatric drugs like SSRIs and MAOIs (antidepressants), amphetamines (ADHD medications), and antipsychotics?

- Destroy certain brain areas and people no longer show certain behaviors or feelings anymore. For example, it's been shown that people with calcified amygdalas cannot experience fear.

LJS9502_basic

Why is it more logical to choose emotion?Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Why is it more logical to choose emotion?LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]Why is it more logical to choose emotion?Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]If you believe the opposite then we don't have choices. I believe we do. I don't believe we are mindless animals that don't put thought into whom we are attracted. I have specific reasons. As do most people I'd warrant. In addition, we can have two people react differently to the same situation which means there is more than mere chemicals involved.

LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

I'm not saying that the mind is physical. I'm saying that it's ultimately controlled by something that is physical (the brain). There are mountains of evidence to support this. For example:

- There's a protozoan brain parasite which infects rats and cats (the parasite is transmitted to whenever a cat eats a rat and whenever a rat eats cat feces). A normal rat is scared to death by the smell of cat urine. A rat infected with this brain parasite, however, LOVES the smell of cat urine and instead of hiding will run out to follow the scent. No other behaviors are affected, the rats are still scared of everything else, it's just the smell of cat urine that doesn't bother them anymore. This would be like a parasite that infects humans and leaves them normal except that it gives them the insatiable urge to go up to grizzly bears and kiss them.

- There's a parasite that infects a certain species of crab. It renders the crab asexual and then makes the crab build a nest for the parasite's young and tend to them as if they were its own children (for the record it's known that the parasite floods the crab's brain with oxytocin in order to elicit the maternal behavior).

- Phineas Gage

- Any psychotropic drug. If the brain didn't affect the mind then how do drugs like LSD, marijuana, and ethanol exert their effects? What about psychiatric drugs like SSRIs and MAOIs (antidepressants), amphetamines (ADHD medications), and antipsychotics?

- Destroy certain brain areas and people no longer show certain behaviors or feelings anymore. For example, it's been shown that people with calcified amygdalas cannot experience fear.

LJS9502_basic

Did you even read my examples? How could any of those things happen if it's emotions that control the brain and not the brain that controls emotions? Are you trying to tell me that those brain parasities are psychic? Do you wish to suggest that psychotropic drugs work via magic? And just what exactly is your explanation for Phineas Gage's personality change that occured immediately after his orbitofrontal cortex was obliterated by a railroad spike being shot through his skull? Also, why do people with destroyed amygdalas not show fear? I'd say that's an open-and-shut case of the brain causing emotion and not the other way around.

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]Again, the mind is a product of the brain. If you wish to dispute this then please find me an account of someone who has no brain yet remains a fully functional person. Here, I'll make it easier for you. Just find me an account of someone who suffered severe brain damage and didn't have any adverse symptoms afterward.AirGuitarist87

Yeah, the french man they're talking about was borderline retarded and, from what I remember from reading another article about him, he was unable to completely care for himself (the whole reason he had an MRI was because his behavior had suggested brain damage).

Finally, you missed this part:

"It seems that the brain's plasticity adapted to some damage."

This isn't unheard of. It's expected actually. It's why people can recover from strokes and other brain damage. A lot of the brain is redundant and as a result other areas of the brain can pick up the slack left by a destroyed area. In adults there are usually still some negative effects left over, but children tend to recover very well. The chinese woman was likely born with that brain damage so her brain was able to adapt completely (assuming that the story isn't exaggeratting when it says she's "normal").

]Well, you think you make choices. But how can you know? It's not like you have any way of testing after the fact whether you could have made any other decision. And why would different brains only react with different intensities?Funky_Llama

If you cannot divine that you make choices then that is that. I can.

Did you even read my examples? How could any of those things happen if it's emotions that control the brain and not the brain that controls emotions? Are you trying to tell me that those brain parasities are psychic? Do you wish to suggest that psychotropic drugs work via magic? And just what exactly is your explanation for Phineas Gage's personality change that occured immediately after his orbitofrontal cortex was obliterated by a railroad spike being shot through his skull? Also, why do people with destroyed amygdalas not show fear? I'd say that's an open-and-shut case of the brain causing emotion and not the other way around.

gameguy6700

Did you even read my examples? How could any of those things happen if it's emotions that control the brain and not the brain that controls emotions? Are you trying to tell me that those brain parasities are psychic? Do you wish to suggest that psychotropic drugs work via magic? And just what exactly is your explanation for Phineas Gage's personality change that occured immediately after his orbitofrontal cortex was obliterated by a railroad spike being shot through his skull? Also, why do people with destroyed amygdalas not show fear? I'd say that's an open-and-shut case of the brain causing emotion and not the other way around.

gameguy6700

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]]Well, you think you make choices. But how can you know? It's not like you have any way of testing after the fact whether you could have made any other decision. And why would different brains only react with different intensities?LJS9502_basic

If you cannot divine that you make choices then that is that. I can.

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"][QUOTE="gameguy6700"]Again, the mind is a product of the brain. If you wish to dispute this then please find me an account of someone who has no brain yet remains a fully functional person. Here, I'll make it easier for you. Just find me an account of someone who suffered severe brain damage and didn't have any adverse symptoms afterward.gameguy6700

Yeah, the french man they're talking about was borderline retarded and, from what I remember from reading another article about him, he was unable to completely care for himself (the whole reason he had an MRI was because his behavior had suggested brain damage).

Finally, you missed this part:

"It seems that the brain's plasticity adapted to some damage."

This isn't unheard of. It's expected actually. It's why people can recover from strokes and other brain damage. A lot of the brain is redundant and as a result other areas of the brain can pick up the slack left by a destroyed area. In adults there are usually still some negative effects left over, but children tend to recover very well. The chinese woman was likely born with that brain damage so her brain was able to adapt completely (assuming that the story isn't exaggeratting when it says she's "normal").

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]]Well, you think you make choices. But how can you know? It's not like you have any way of testing after the fact whether you could have made any other decision. And why would different brains only react with different intensities?Funky_Llama

If you cannot divine that you make choices then that is that. I can.

The choice is not inevitable because I weighed my decision and studied various outcomes. I'm not a mindless drone. Period.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]For the record....science does not answer this question. It merely says a chemical reaction occurs. This should not actually surprise anyone. But that is far from proving conclusively that the reaction causes the emotion.

If you cannot divine that you make choices then that is that. I can.

LJS9502_basic

The choice is not inevitable because I weighed my decision and studied various outcomes. I'm not a mindless drone. Period.

I'm not saying that knowledge and experience play no role in our decisions... I have no idea where the hell you got that from. :| And even if they do have the same general structure brains differ. Physically, the differences between them can account for different decision making between different people. Yes, you weigh your decision and study various outcomes. And then you make a decision. This is irrelevant; what matters is whether it is possible that you could weigh your decision, study possible outcomes, and then choose a different option... something which you have no way of proving.Funky_Llama

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

[QUOTE="AirGuitarist87"] Chinese woman with only the right hemisphere along with a French man with a brain 1/4 the normal size.AirGuitarist87

Yeah, the french man they're talking about was borderline retarded and, from what I remember from reading another article about him, he was unable to completely care for himself (the whole reason he had an MRI was because his behavior had suggested brain damage).

Finally, you missed this part:

"It seems that the brain's plasticity adapted to some damage."

This isn't unheard of. It's expected actually. It's why people can recover from strokes and other brain damage. A lot of the brain is redundant and as a result other areas of the brain can pick up the slack left by a destroyed area. In adults there are usually still some negative effects left over, but children tend to recover very well. The chinese woman was likely born with that brain damage so her brain was able to adapt completely (assuming that the story isn't exaggeratting when it says she's "normal").

I actually had some hesitation adding the "half brain" thing since I was thinking "ehh...wait, brain plasticity could pick up the slack in some freak case" but then I thought "nah, no way that's ever happened". I guess I should have added the qualifier "as an adult" when discussing brain damage.

[QUOTE="Funky_Llama"]I'm not saying that knowledge and experience play no role in our decisions... I have no idea where the hell you got that from. :| And even if they do have the same general structure brains differ. Physically, the differences between them can account for different decision making between different people. Yes, you weigh your decision and study various outcomes. And then you make a decision. This is irrelevant; what matters is whether it is possible that you could weigh your decision, study possible outcomes, and then choose a different option... something which you have no way of proving.LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="gameguy6700"]

Did you even read my examples? How could any of those things happen if it's emotions that control the brain and not the brain that controls emotions? Are you trying to tell me that those brain parasities are psychic? Do you wish to suggest that psychotropic drugs work via magic? And just what exactly is your explanation for Phineas Gage's personality change that occured immediately after his orbitofrontal cortex was obliterated by a railroad spike being shot through his skull? Also, why do people with destroyed amygdalas not show fear? I'd say that's an open-and-shut case of the brain causing emotion and not the other way around.

LJS9502_basic

I'm not saying emotions aren't real. I'm saying that they're dependent on the brain. I'm really at a loss for how you could possibly believe that the mind is separate from the brain. If you believe that then why not just go blow your head off with a shotgun right now to prove all of science wrong?