Why is Obama's magic tax number falling so quickly?

[QUOTE="sonicare"]Because he's going to need to tax a lot of people to support a lot of the programs he's proposing. Money just doesnt magically appear.septemberluc

That's the least of our problems.....

Just look at Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and other the other useless welfare programs of the Welfare State.

Didn't Clinton give one number while campaigning, only to raise taxes on everyone during his presidency?

At least Obama, Biden, and Richardson are giving us a Freudian heads-up.

[QUOTE="Buddha_basic"]

Raising minimum wage is a must in this country as a result of the decreased value of the dollar. The worst decrease in the dollar has yet to be felt, but will be as a result of the 850 billion dollar bail-out plan. NOT a raise in minimum wage.

And i agree Great Society is a good example. But have the companies really done their job under teh current administration? Mccain wants to add more choices for healthcare, without adressing high premiums, or pre existing conditions. Peopel are not realizign that the healthcare providers are sitting on a stockpile of literally billions of dollars, and STILL raise premiums. (my own plan was raised 200 dollars just this month.)

battlefront23

I agree the bail out was an epic phail. We (Americans) should almost be... punished for our stupidity with our money and the greediness of the banks in the U.S. Raising minimum wage sounds good for everyone and I would agree with it if the gov't backed off with the crazy spending under the current administration. I think there are two really bad forms of gov't; Bush's and Obama's. We need to have classes in the high schools, colleges, hell even in secondary schools, to teach kids how to use and save money. But anyway, back to your point about healthcare... I think having national healthcare is worse then our current system, so I don't really know how we could fix it.

Well the people werent really to blame. When you apply for a loan, youre asking the bank if you qualify. What happened is banks that were selling property at extremley low interest rates (remember, monetary policy has you RIASE interest rates to combat inflation), they were giving it to anyone that could write their name in english, knowing they probably couldnt pay the mortgage, but once it was signed, they sold it to other banks.

So whne the **** hit the fan, and families couldnt pay the mortgage, the banks that were loaning it out basically had a mortgage that was worthless.

[QUOTE="septemberluc"][QUOTE="sonicare"]Because he's going to need to tax a lot of people to support a lot of the programs he's proposing. Money just doesnt magically appear.trix5817

That's the least of our problems.....

Just look at Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and other the other useless welfare programs of the Welfare State.

Yeah because social security is so useless...

Except that it's not. In order for it to be "useless" that would mean than nobody is benefiting from it. But the thing is people are using programs like social security and medicare, and they're benefiting from those programs. So how is that useless?

[QUOTE="halfirishhomer"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="halfirishhomer"][QUOTE="Buddha_basic"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="shoeman12"]because he was lying in the first place and now that people realize it he's flip flopping.-Sun_Tzu-

You know you'd be right if that was true but it's not. There has been a flip flopper this election though. He's voted for that 700 billion bailout and wants to buy up all the bad mortgages then turns around and cries how his opponent is a socialist. In fact you even have a picture of him in your sig.

And yea thats antoehr thing. The republican party is yelling "socialist" when thats clearly not even true. Its just a scare tactic and it goes back to mccarthyism back in the 50's.

Really because redistribution of wealth is a socialist tenet, so how is Obama not a socialist?

Wow I don't even know where to begin. Wealth is always being redistributed. How do you think the roads in your neighborhood are built? How do you think policemen and firemen get payed? If you don't know, it's through taxes, and if you don't understand how those are examples redistribution of wealth then I'll be more than happy to explain.

The thing that Obama is trying to accomplish through his tax plan is to give struggling Americans a better opportunity. Now you can cry and moan how that's one of the tenets of socialism all you want, but that's one of the tenets that this country was built on. Not economic equality, but equal economic opportunity.

McCain once said that the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy were a bad idea and were unfair to America's middle class, and he was right. All the Bush tax cuts did was make the rich richer at the expense of making the poor poorer, and now John McCain wants to make those tax cuts permanent.

But the thing is Obama would take money from the rich who actually earn their money, and give it to people who already pay no taxes, as so called "tax-relief". But the rich have the most money and they help the economy more than anyone, so the more you take from them the worse the economy will get. I mean think about it, if you give money to someone who can barely afford to stay in their house, do you think they're gonna use it for rent, or on a new television?

Those people who "pay no taxes" still pay a payroll tax, so that whole argument is moot. And your philosophy on the economy doesn't work. The rich never trickle anything down. It's like if you were to build a house. Would you start with the attic and build down or would you lay out the foundation first and build up. A strong middle class is what helps out the economy the most, not the rich. How do you think people get rich? They usually have something to sell. And without a strong middle class who is going to buy whatever it is they're selling?

Who do you think creates and controls the most jobs? Who do you think creates and controls most business? (Corporations are included in the Income Tax).

If taxes are raised, people will be layed-off and/or prices will be raised.

[QUOTE="septemberluc"][QUOTE="sonicare"]Because he's going to need to tax a lot of people to support a lot of the programs he's proposing. Money just doesnt magically appear.trix5817

That's the least of our problems.....

Just look at Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and other the other useless welfare programs of the Welfare State.

Social security worthless? Do you not know anyone that is (or was) banking on that to be able to survive retirement?

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="septemberluc"][QUOTE="sonicare"]Because he's going to need to tax a lot of people to support a lot of the programs he's proposing. Money just doesnt magically appear.-Sun_Tzu-

That's the least of our problems.....

Just look at Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and other the other useless welfare programs of the Welfare State.

Yeah because social security is so useless...

Except that it's not. In order for it to be "useless" that would mean than nobody is benefiting from it. But the thing is people are using programs like social security and medicare, and they're benefiting from those programs. So how is that useless?

Do you have any idea how much of a problem Medicare/Medicaid and especially Social Security are right now? Do you think any of us are going to see our Social Security check? Do you think anyone 5-10 years down the line is going to see the Social Security check? Don't think so...

[QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="septemberluc"][QUOTE="sonicare"]Because he's going to need to tax a lot of people to support a lot of the programs he's proposing. Money just doesnt magically appear.Buddha_basic

That's the least of our problems.....

Just look at Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and other the other useless welfare programs of the Welfare State.

Social security worthless? Do you not know anyone that is (or was) banking on that to be able to survive retirement?

That's the problem right there. People need to stop relying on Big Brother from cradle to the grave. I'm sorry, I can handle my own retirement finances. I don't want the government to take my money that I could manage, much, much better myself.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="septemberluc"][QUOTE="sonicare"]Because he's going to need to tax a lot of people to support a lot of the programs he's proposing. Money just doesnt magically appear.trix5817

That's the least of our problems.....

Just look at Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and other the other useless welfare programs of the Welfare State.

Yeah because social security is so useless...

Except that it's not. In order for it to be "useless" that would mean than nobody is benefiting from it. But the thing is people are using programs like social security and medicare, and they're benefiting from those programs. So how is that useless?

Do you have any idea how much of a problem Medicare/Medicaid and especially Social Security are right now? Do you think any of us are going to see our Social Security check? Do you think anyone 5-10 years down the line is going to see the Social Security check? Don't think so...

But how are those programs useless? Do they need reform? Uhh duh. But tell me why they're useless.

[QUOTE="Buddha_basic"][QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="septemberluc"][QUOTE="sonicare"]Because he's going to need to tax a lot of people to support a lot of the programs he's proposing. Money just doesnt magically appear.trix5817

That's the least of our problems.....

Just look at Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and other the other useless welfare programs of the Welfare State.

Social security worthless? Do you not know anyone that is (or was) banking on that to be able to survive retirement?

That's the problem right there. People need to stop relying on Big Brother from cradle to the grave. I'm sorry, I can handle my own retirement finances. I don't want the government to take my money that I could manage, much, much better myself.

I agree with you. It was a bad concept, but it was put in place and people ARE banking on them, and thats the reality.

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="septemberluc"]

Don't forget, McCain eventually hijacked the "Change" motto.Buddha_basic

You avoided the question. I hear McCain speak of his change. I don't know what the hell Obama wants besides more taxes, national healthcare, and programs that do nothing but waste money.

How is making healthcare more affordable a waste of money?

More affordable is fine. That's the companies job, not the gov't. That's why it'll be a waste; that's all that the gov't has proven to us. They rarely efficiently spend money.

What have the companies proven to us? That they are good at filing for bankruptcy? I trust the government which is out for the benefit of the people over the companies that are just out to make a buck.

Exactly. The government is under judicial review in its practices. Private companies..not so much.

:lol::lol:

The government has waaaaay too much power. Remember, government are the only ones that can legally use force and legally kill. Government has the power to be coercive. Business don't. When government needs more money, they just ask for more. When businesses need more money, they have to actually work for you and try to get you (non-coercively) to give them your dollar. The Judicial system today regards the Constitution as a "guideline". It's become a joke.

[QUOTE="Buddha_basic"][QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="septemberluc"][QUOTE="sonicare"]Because he's going to need to tax a lot of people to support a lot of the programs he's proposing. Money just doesnt magically appear.trix5817

That's the least of our problems.....

Just look at Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and other the other useless welfare programs of the Welfare State.

Social security worthless? Do you not know anyone that is (or was) banking on that to be able to survive retirement?

That's the problem right there. People need to stop relying on Big Brother from cradle to the grave. I'm sorry, I can handle my own retirement finances. I don't want the government to take my money that I could manage, much, much better myself.

Congrats on being able to handle your retirement finances. It's a shame that you don't make any sense though. With your logic I shouldn't have to help finance the war in Iraq through the taxes I pay because I don't support the war. I shouldn't have to help pay my local police, because hey, I can buy my own security. And my tax money shouldn't be used to pave my roads, I'll be able to pave my own roads and they'll be bigger and better than any road tax money can buy.

[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="septemberluc"][QUOTE="sonicare"]Because he's going to need to tax a lot of people to support a lot of the programs he's proposing. Money just doesnt magically appear.-Sun_Tzu-

That's the least of our problems.....

Just look at Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and other the other useless welfare programs of the Welfare State.

Yeah because social security is so useless...

Except that it's not. In order for it to be "useless" that would mean than nobody is benefiting from it. But the thing is people are using programs like social security and medicare, and they're benefiting from those programs. So how is that useless?

Do you have any idea how much of a problem Medicare/Medicaid and especially Social Security are right now? Do you think any of us are going to see our Social Security check? Do you think anyone 5-10 years down the line is going to see the Social Security check? Don't think so...

But how are those programs useless? Do they need reform? Uhh duh. But tell me why they're useless.

Because they cause more problems than they fix. Just like most government programs and government in general.......

[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="Buddha_basic"][QUOTE="trix5817"]

[QUOTE="septemberluc"][QUOTE="sonicare"]Because he's going to need to tax a lot of people to support a lot of the programs he's proposing. Money just doesnt magically appear.-Sun_Tzu-

That's the least of our problems.....

Just look at Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid and other the other useless welfare programs of the Welfare State.

Social security worthless? Do you not know anyone that is (or was) banking on that to be able to survive retirement?

That's the problem right there. People need to stop relying on Big Brother from cradle to the grave. I'm sorry, I can handle my own retirement finances. I don't want the government to take my money that I could manage, much, much better myself.

Congrats on being able to handle your retirement finances. It's a shame that you don't make any sense though. With your logic I shouldn't have to help finance the war in Iraq through the taxes I pay because I don't support the war. I shouldn't have to help pay my local police, because hey, I can buy my own security. And my tax money shouldn't be used to pave my roads, I'll be able to pave my own bigger and better roads.

Your acting as if I'm an anarchist...which I'm not. Government is obviously necessary for certain things. That's why a small, efficient, and Limited government is the best.

[QUOTE="Buddha_basic"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="septemberluc"]

Don't forget, McCain eventually hijacked the "Change" motto.trix5817

You avoided the question. I hear McCain speak of his change. I don't know what the hell Obama wants besides more taxes, national healthcare, and programs that do nothing but waste money.

How is making healthcare more affordable a waste of money?

More affordable is fine. That's the companies job, not the gov't. That's why it'll be a waste; that's all that the gov't has proven to us. They rarely efficiently spend money.

What have the companies proven to us? That they are good at filing for bankruptcy? I trust the government which is out for the benefit of the people over the companies that are just out to make a buck.

Exactly. The government is under judicial review in its practices. Private companies..not so much.

:lol::lol:

The government has waaaaay too much power. Remember, government are the only ones that can legally use force and legally kill. Government has the power to be coercive. Business don't. When government needs more money, they just ask for more. When businesses need more money, they have to actually work for you and try to get you (non-coercively) to give them your dollar. The Judicial system today regards the Constitution as a "guideline". It's become a joke.

Let me ask you this then. Are you going to, or will you ever, vote for a president? Because you make i sound ilke its pointless.

I agree with you the government has a lot of control, because theyve let the big corporations squeeze their way into their back pocket. But not ever politician wants to stab the people in the back.

And youd be suprised how big business can coercively get you to buy their product. Advertising is directly related to our biology, and what makes us tick.

[QUOTE="trix5817"][QUOTE="Buddha_basic"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="septemberluc"]

Don't forget, McCain eventually hijacked the "Change" motto.Buddha_basic

You avoided the question. I hear McCain speak of his change. I don't know what the hell Obama wants besides more taxes, national healthcare, and programs that do nothing but waste money.

How is making healthcare more affordable a waste of money?

More affordable is fine. That's the companies job, not the gov't. That's why it'll be a waste; that's all that the gov't has proven to us. They rarely efficiently spend money.

What have the companies proven to us? That they are good at filing for bankruptcy? I trust the government which is out for the benefit of the people over the companies that are just out to make a buck.

Exactly. The government is under judicial review in its practices. Private companies..not so much.

:lol::lol:

The government has waaaaay too much power. Remember, government are the only ones that can legally use force and legally kill. Government has the power to be coercive. Business don't. When government needs more money, they just ask for more. When businesses need more money, they have to actually work for you and try to get you (non-coercively) to give them your dollar. The Judicial system today regards the Constitution as a "guideline". It's become a joke.

Let me ask you this then. Are you going to, or will you ever, vote for a president? Because you make i sound ilke its pointless.

I agree with you the government has a lot of control, because theyve let the big corporations squeeze their way into their back pocket. But not ever politician wants to stab the people in the back.

And youd be suprised how big business can coercively get you to buy their product. Advertising is directly related to our biology, and what makes us tick.

Yes, I will be voting for Bob Barr this election.

Government has gone out of control because it's way too big. When you government gets that big and that involved, their bound to abuse their power. Like I said, small, efficient, and limited government is the best option. Which is why I'm a Libertarian.

And no, big business cannot force me to do anything. Guess what happens if I don't do what the government says? The IRS? I pay fines or get put in jail.......

Can't we get this over with already, so that these conservatives will quit their whining.jointed

Unless youre going to post something worth meddling over on your, im assuming, liberal ideas, than shhhhhhh....

Can't we get this over with already, so that these conservatives will quit their whining.jointed

Just as soon as you get off your knees after bowing down to the "Messiah" also know as Barack Obama.:)

:lol: at the reactions I got. Desperation much? ;) I'm not even American.jointed

Im not even conservative. Im just tired of people making comments attacking one side or other without contributing anything meaningful.

[QUOTE="jointed"]:lol: at the reactions I got. Desperation much? ;) I'm not even American.Buddha_basic

Im not even conservative. Im just tired of people making comments attacking one side or other without contributing anything meaningful.

The topic was answered at the first and second page. And contribution is not the word you'd want to use as a standard when you're talking about OT's political debates, mate.

[QUOTE="Buddha_basic"]

[QUOTE="jointed"]:lol: at the reactions I got. Desperation much? ;) I'm not even American.jointed

Im not even conservative. Im just tired of people making comments attacking one side or other without contributing anything meaningful.

The topic was answered at the first and second page. And contribution is not the word you'd want to use as a standard when you're talking about OT's political debates, mate.

haha that made me laugh.

Aside from what was answered though, it doesnt mean a debate cant continue. :P

[QUOTE="Rikusaki"]

Hope for Middle cl@ss families.

Change in Washington.

:D

battlefront23

Middle class families don't already have hope? We don't need hope... we need to be taxed less. And you know what Obama won't do? Renew the Bush tax cuts, which will mean my middle class family will have to pay more money to the gov't for them to waste.

What change in Washington? It's already going so liberal it's almost scaring me. Screw Obama's slogan of "change" in Washington. Such a liar...

That's not true, he is lowering middle class taxes, you obviously know nothing of which you speak about.

Still redistribution of wealthSAURON221

[QUOTE="jubino"]

[QUOTE="shoeman12"]because he was lying in the first place and now that people realize it he's flip flopping.Buddha_basic

True. Once elected, he'll probably increase taxes for everyone after he realizes he won't have enough money to support his half-baked plans.

Just curious, which half baked plans?

All of them...His tax plans, health care, and energy?

Obama's arrogance is astounding. The real reason it keeps dropping is because he doesn't really care. He is rich and doesn't want anyone else too have the chance to become rich.stupiddk

[QUOTE=""][QUOTE=""]

True. Once elected, he'll probably increase taxes for everyone after he realizes he won't have enough money to support his half-baked plans.

Just curious, which half baked plans?

All of them...His tax plans, health care, and energy?

His tax plan which helps the middle class.

His health care plan which provides health care to the 45.7 million uninsured Americans.

And what exactly do you have against his clean energy policy? Which aside for nuclear energy and drilling, is very similar to McCains, and I'll tell you something, McCain wants to build so many nuclear power plants, do you have any idea how expensive a nuclear power plant is? It's not cheap, and drilling? Is that really the solution? i think not, I think we need to turn our focus away from oil, not just foreign oil, ALL oil. Drilling in the United States would only delay the real problem, that oil is not hte answer to.

Cause he lies. He's voted multiple times to raise taxes on individuals making 42k+/year. He lies about a lot, so this shouldn't come as a surprise.fakecliche

That is a flat out lie, people learn to RESEARCH SOMETHING BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT IT.

This is exhausting. How many Obama haters are there?

[QUOTE="fakecliche"]Cause he lies. He's voted multiple times to raise taxes on individuals making 42k+/year. He lies about a lot, so this shouldn't come as a surprise.Franklinstein

That is a flat out lie, people learn to RESEARCH SOMETHING BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT IT.

This is exhausting. How many Obama haters are there?

You're calling facts "lies". Good try with that one. Barack Obama voted twice in favor of the Democrats' FY 2009 Budget Resolution that would raise taxes on those making just $42,000 a year.

Up till recently he said $250,000 was the threshhold but in his infomercial it said 200,000 AND then Biden said 150,00. Are these gaffs? Have they really gone from 250 thousand to 150 thousand in a week? Why is no one talking about this? SolidSnake2142

...because McCain criticized the Obama campaign for believeing that those with an income of $250,000 are 'middle-class.'

It's a response to McCain's attacks, not Obama's fault.

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

[QUOTE="fakecliche"]Cause he lies. He's voted multiple times to raise taxes on individuals making 42k+/year. He lies about a lot, so this shouldn't come as a surprise.fakecliche

That is a flat out lie, people learn to RESEARCH SOMETHING BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT IT.

This is exhausting. How many Obama haters are there?

You're calling facts "lies". Good try with that one. Barack Obama voted twice in favor of the Democrats' FY 2009 Budget Resolution that would raise taxes on those making just $42,000 a year.

No, actually you are wrong.

http://www.senate.gov/~budget/democratic/documents/2008/BudRes09Summary030508.pdf

The budget includes no tax increase. The budget provides tax relief to make

college more affordable

Senate_gov

[QUOTE="fakecliche"][QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

[QUOTE="fakecliche"]Cause he lies. He's voted multiple times to raise taxes on individuals making 42k+/year. He lies about a lot, so this shouldn't come as a surprise.Franklinstein

That is a flat out lie, people learn to RESEARCH SOMETHING BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT IT.

This is exhausting. How many Obama haters are there?

You're calling facts "lies". Good try with that one. Barack Obama voted twice in favor of the Democrats' FY 2009 Budget Resolution that would raise taxes on those making just $42,000 a year.

No, actually you are wrong.

http://www.senate.gov/~budget/democratic/documents/2008/BudRes09Summary030508.pdf

The budget includes no tax increase. The budget provides tax relief to make

college more affordable

Senate_gov

Nope, the facts are the facts. Obama has been lying about his tax plans. Record > rhetoric.

That's not true, he is lowering middle class taxes, you obviously know nothing of which you speak about.

Franklinstein

He "says" he is, but his voting record in the Senate tells otherwise.

[QUOTE=" "][QUOTE=""][QUOTE=""]

True. Once elected, he'll probably increase taxes for everyone after he realizes he won't have enough money to support his half-baked plans.

Franklinstein

Just curious, which half baked plans?

All of them...His tax plans, health care, and energy?

His tax plan which helps the middle class.

His health care plan which provides health care to the 45.7 million uninsured Americans.

And what exactly do you have against his clean energy policy? Which aside for nuclear energy and drilling, is very similar to McCains, and I'll tell you something, McCain wants to build so many nuclear power plants, do you have any idea how expensive a nuclear power plant is? It's not cheap, and drilling? Is that really the solution? i think not, I think we need to turn our focus away from oil, not just foreign oil, ALL oil. Drilling in the United States would only delay the real problem, that oil is not hte answer to.

and how long would it take us to stop using all oil? it would be expensive and take way too long. and it would impossible to stop using all oil since it's used for paint, plastic, and a variety of other things. good luck having a car with paint.

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"][QUOTE=" "][QUOTE=""][QUOTE=""]

True. Once elected, he'll probably increase taxes for everyone after he realizes he won't have enough money to support his half-baked plans.

shoeman12

Just curious, which half baked plans?

All of them...His tax plans, health care, and energy?

His tax plan which helps the middle class.

His health care plan which provides health care to the 45.7 million uninsured Americans.

And what exactly do you have against his clean energy policy? Which aside for nuclear energy and drilling, is very similar to McCains, and I'll tell you something, McCain wants to build so many nuclear power plants, do you have any idea how expensive a nuclear power plant is? It's not cheap, and drilling? Is that really the solution? i think not, I think we need to turn our focus away from oil, not just foreign oil, ALL oil. Drilling in the United States would only delay the real problem, that oil is not hte answer to.

and how long would it take us to stop using all oil? it would be expensive and take way too long.

Well, regardless of how long it would take, we have no choice, we will eventually have to. And secondly... it would save us a lot of money in the long run.

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"][QUOTE="fakecliche"][QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

[QUOTE="fakecliche"]Cause he lies. He's voted multiple times to raise taxes on individuals making 42k+/year. He lies about a lot, so this shouldn't come as a surprise.fakecliche

That is a flat out lie, people learn to RESEARCH SOMETHING BEFORE YOU TALK ABOUT IT.

This is exhausting. How many Obama haters are there?

You're calling facts "lies". Good try with that one. Barack Obama voted twice in favor of the Democrats' FY 2009 Budget Resolution that would raise taxes on those making just $42,000 a year.

No, actually you are wrong.

http://www.senate.gov/~budget/democratic/documents/2008/BudRes09Summary030508.pdf

The budget includes no tax increase. The budget provides tax relief to make

college more affordable

Senate_gov

Nope, the facts are the facts. Obama has been lying about his tax plans. Record > rhetoric.

Read my link that is from SENATE.GOV, I think that they wouldn't be LYING about something like this. ... How are you still argueing this broken point? I have shown facts, and backed them up, YOU are the one using only rhetoric.

[QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

That's not true, he is lowering middle class taxes, you obviously know nothing of which you speak about.

battlefront23

He "says" he is, but his voting record in the Senate tells otherwise.

His voting record in the senate? Give me an example of a time where he raised middle class taxes. You know they keep records of these things right?

Up till recently he said $250,000 was the threshhold but in his infomercial it said 200,000 AND then Biden said 150,00. Are these gaffs? Have they really gone from 250 thousand to 150 thousand in a week? Why is no one talking about this? SolidSnake2142

This one is a lie. All Biden said was that family making 150,000 a year would get a tax cut. He did not say this was the cutoff limit on the tax cuts. The people who are saying this are taking this out of context.

Up till recently he said $250,000 was the threshhold but in his infomercial it said 200,000 AND then Biden said 150,00. Are these gaffs? Have they really gone from 250 thousand to 150 thousand in a week? Why is no one talking about this? SolidSnake2142

It's the classic bait and switch. This is going to be Obama's "read my lips: no new taxes" moment.

[QUOTE="battlefront23"][QUOTE="Franklinstein"]

That's not true, he is lowering middle class taxes, you obviously know nothing of which you speak about.

Franklinstein

He "says" he is, but his voting record in the Senate tells otherwise.

His voting record in the senate? Give me an example of a time where he raised middle class taxes.

He obviously can't, he's just one senator.

But here you go. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_obama.html

That figure doesn't really concern me, my family is screwed no matter what he caps it at (unless he decides to make it like $1.3 mil).

Go McCain...

Well, regardless of how long it would take, we have no choice, we will eventually have to. And secondly... it would save us a lot of money in the long run.

Franklinstein

then what about all the oil we use for paint and plastic and rubber and other stuff?

Gosh, how dare Obama raise taxes on anyone!!!! He should know we want to keep our money and continue getting free services. His plans are horrible.

I'll eventually donate $50 to my school, when Im done with XBL. Generosity ftw!!!

/jk

250,000 is for couples

200,000 is for indiviuals...

Biden probably meant to say 250, but accidently said 150