Why the Universe and Life is not Infinite

We so stupidly make the assumption that life exists in places other than Earth because the universe is just SO BIG that there HAS to be life out there.

Well if there is life out there, and the universe is in fact infinite, that would mean that life out there is infinite?

I remember thinking if there is infinite amound of life out there then there has to be an alien that looks like a toaster. If life is infinite then there has to be at least one that looks like a toaster right?

Then that means that there is bound to be at least one other alien out of the infinite that's only plan is destroy humanity. There has to be at least one life form out the infinite that has the technology and wants to destroy Earth?

So then I thought about it more. There would then be an alien race who's purpose is to defend Earth. Then maybe we should be seeing an epic battle right now? Maybe there is an alien species that's only plan is to desguise this battle.

So if life out there is infinite, there would be a lot more going on basically. And what we see is close to nothing.

The universe is not infinite, it just has undefined boundaries and unless a species can come up with a method to travel through space-time faster than light,we won't be seeing any aliens anytime soon.

The universe is not infinite, it just has undefined boundaries.

Trinners

We so stupidly make the assumption that life exists in places other than Earth because the universe is just SO BIG that there HAS to be life out there.

Well if there is life out there, and the universe is in fact infinite, that would mean that life out there is infinite?

I remember thinking if there is infinite amound of life out there then there has to be an alien that looks like a toaster. If life is infinite then there has to be at least one that looks like a toaster right?

Then that means that there is bound to be at least one other alien out of the infinite that's only plan is destroy humanity. There has to be at least one life form out the infinite that has the technology and wants to destroy Earth?

So then I thought about it more. There would then be an alien race who's purpose is to defend Earth. Then maybe we should be seeing an epic battle right now? Maybe there is an alien species that's only plan is to desguise this battle.

So if life out there is infinite, there would be a lot more going on basically. And what we see is close to nothing.

brandontwb

Uh...no.

For one, even if the universe were infinitely large (and as far as we know, it isn't), then that doesn't mean that there are infinite possibilities. Just because you can imagine that there's a toaster alien doesn't mean that it's true or even possible.

Secondly, why would there be aliens who want to destroy/defend Earth if they have no way of knowing that Earth even exists?

well ...... il take farm animals for $200.00

how can people know if its infinite or not, everything is based off a theory which is basically an educated opinon

[QUOTE="brandontwb"]

We so stupidly make the assumption that life exists in places other than Earth because the universe is just SO BIG that there HAS to be life out there.

Well if there is life out there, and the universe is in fact infinite, that would mean that life out there is infinite?

I remember thinking if there is infinite amound of life out there then there has to be an alien that looks like a toaster. If life is infinite then there has to be at least one that looks like a toaster right?

Then that means that there is bound to be at least one other alien out of the infinite that's only plan is destroy humanity. There has to be at least one life form out the infinite that has the technology and wants to destroy Earth?

So then I thought about it more. There would then be an alien race who's purpose is to defend Earth. Then maybe we should be seeing an epic battle right now? Maybe there is an alien species that's only plan is to desguise this battle.

So if life out there is infinite, there would be a lot more going on basically. And what we see is close to nothing.

MrGeezer

Uh...no.

For one, even if the universe were infinitely large (and as far as we know, it isn't), then that doesn't mean that there are infinite possibilities. Just because you can imagine that there's a toaster alien doesn't mean that it's true or even possible.

Secondly, why would there be aliens who want to destroy/defend Earth if they have no way of knowing that Earth even exists?

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="brandontwb"]

We so stupidly make the assumption that life exists in places other than Earth because the universe is just SO BIG that there HAS to be life out there.

Well if there is life out there, and the universe is in fact infinite, that would mean that life out there is infinite?

I remember thinking if there is infinite amound of life out there then there has to be an alien that looks like a toaster. If life is infinite then there has to be at least one that looks like a toaster right?

Then that means that there is bound to be at least one other alien out of the infinite that's only plan is destroy humanity. There has to be at least one life form out the infinite that has the technology and wants to destroy Earth?

So then I thought about it more. There would then be an alien race who's purpose is to defend Earth. Then maybe we should be seeing an epic battle right now? Maybe there is an alien species that's only plan is to desguise this battle.

So if life out there is infinite, there would be a lot more going on basically. And what we see is close to nothing.

brandontwb

Uh...no.

For one, even if the universe were infinitely large (and as far as we know, it isn't), then that doesn't mean that there are infinite possibilities. Just because you can imagine that there's a toaster alien doesn't mean that it's true or even possible.

Secondly, why would there be aliens who want to destroy/defend Earth if they have no way of knowing that Earth even exists?

[QUOTE="brandontwb"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Uh...no.

For one, even if the universe were infinitely large (and as far as we know, it isn't), then that doesn't mean that there are infinite possibilities. Just because you can imagine that there's a toaster alien doesn't mean that it's true or even possible.

Secondly, why would there be aliens who want to destroy/defend Earth if they have no way of knowing that Earth even exists?

strawberry9

[QUOTE="brandontwb"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Uh...no.

For one, even if the universe were infinitely large (and as far as we know, it isn't), then that doesn't mean that there are infinite possibilities. Just because you can imagine that there's a toaster alien doesn't mean that it's true or even possible.

Secondly, why would there be aliens who want to destroy/defend Earth if they have no way of knowing that Earth even exists?

strawberry9

[QUOTE="strawberry9"][QUOTE="brandontwb"]If there is an infinite amount of life out there it does mean there are infinite possibilities. Why would they want to destroy Earth? Well out of INFINITY at least one of them would develop the technology to find us and destroy us... But look we are still here!brandontwb

I'm suggesting that if life is infinite there would be an infinite amount of aliens with the technology to do that. That's why the point of this thread is to think about life out there as being finite.

brandontwb

You're saying that since space is infinite (which it isn't), then someone must have developed the "technology" to travel across an essentially INFINITE distance of space instantaneously.

And no, it doesn't work like that. Such technology isn't possible. You can pretend that space is as large as you want to, you're still not going to find something that is imspossible.

[QUOTE="brandontwb"]

[QUOTE="strawberry9"] Why would you think that another life-form has even found out about us? Considering how hard it is to accomplish space travel in great distances such as those that would be required to get from one system to another, what makes you so sure that another life form is that much more advanced than us that not only have they found out about us (which we have yet to do for another life form), but also have decided with absolute mutuality that they are going to destroy our life form.strawberry9

how much weed did you smoke bro

[QUOTE="brandontwb"]I'm suggesting that if life is infinite there would be an infinite amount of aliens with the technology to do that. That's why the point of this thread is to think about life out there as being finite.

MrGeezer

You're saying that since space is infinite (which it isn't), then someone must have developed the "technology" to travel across an essentially INFINITE distance of space instantaneously.

And no, it doesn't work like that. Such technology isn't possible. You can pretend that space is as large as you want to, you're still not going to find something that is imspossible.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="brandontwb"]I'm suggesting that if life is infinite there would be an infinite amount of aliens with the technology to do that. That's why the point of this thread is to think about life out there as being finite.

brandontwb

You're saying that since space is infinite (which it isn't), then someone must have developed the "technology" to travel across an essentially INFINITE distance of space instantaneously.

And no, it doesn't work like that. Such technology isn't possible. You can pretend that space is as large as you want to, you're still not going to find something that is imspossible.

Going by your way of thinking there are infinite species that look like toasters who want to destroy Earth. And there are infinite species that want to defend us because they see us as God's. There are also infinite flying spaghetti like creatures floating around snorting green acidic ooze out of their nostrils in order to defend us against wild pink furry elephants who want to destroy our society by drowning us in pudding.

Not everything in the universe is feasible.

The universe will die one day. Then what?

[QUOTE="brandontwb"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"] Again, you're falsely assuming that infinite space means that everything is possible.

You're saying that since space is infinite (which it isn't), then someone must have developed the "technology" to travel across an essentially INFINITE distance of space instantaneously.

And no, it doesn't work like that. Such technology isn't possible. You can pretend that space is as large as you want to, you're still not going to find something that is imspossible.

quiglythegreat

how much weed did you smoke bro

Nit3nd0P0w3r

[QUOTE="Nit3nd0P0w3r"]

how much weed did you smoke bro

tormentor313

[QUOTE="tormentor313"][QUOTE="Nit3nd0P0w3r"]

how much weed did you smoke bro

brandontwb

We so stupidly make the assumption that life exists in places other than Earth because the universe is just SO BIG that there HAS to be life out there.

Well if there is life out there, and the universe is in fact infinite, that would mean that life out there is infinite?

I remember thinking if there is infinite amound of life out there then there has to be an alien that looks like a toaster. If life is infinite then there has to be at least one that looks like a toaster right?

Then that means that there is bound to be at least one other alien out of the infinite that's only plan is destroy humanity. There has to be at least one life form out the infinite that has the technology and wants to destroy Earth?

So then I thought about it more. There would then be an alien race who's purpose is to defend Earth. Then maybe we should be seeing an epic battle right now? Maybe there is an alien species that's only plan is to desguise this battle.

So if life out there is infinite, there would be a lot more going on basically. And what we see is close to nothing.

brandontwb

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="brandontwb"]I'm suggesting that if life is infinite there would be an infinite amount of aliens with the technology to do that. That's why the point of this thread is to think about life out there as being finite.

brandontwb

You're saying that since space is infinite (which it isn't), then someone must have developed the "technology" to travel across an essentially INFINITE distance of space instantaneously.

And no, it doesn't work like that. Such technology isn't possible. You can pretend that space is as large as you want to, you're still not going to find something that is imspossible.

I don't KNOW this, I'm making the assumption that physics here work the same as physics EVERYWHERE.

Science has to make certain ASSUMPTIONS, otherwise it would be impossible to draw any CONCLUSIONS. Seeing as how we DO get real conclusions, science has so far been pretty reliable in confirming our ability to be confident that these assumptions are valid.

And again, one of these assumptions is that physics work the same everywhere. If the universe were infinitely large, then the physics here would STILL apply everywhere. Absent any evidence to the contrary, we HAVE to trust the validity of hard empirical data. If it were somehow determined that the laws of physics DO vary locally, then this would completely invalidate all scientific study. The Hubble telescope would be completely worthless, since we wouldn't be able to connect the data that we get from it with the actual state of what it was looking at. This would be a weird universe in which what we sense has absolutely NO bearing on what is there. So when you marry your wife, you might have actually been marrying a Grizzly Bear on the rings of Saturn.

Absent any evidence to the contrary, these are two of the guiding assumptions which have resulted in every single piece of technological or intellectual advancement. Physics work the same everywhere, and the universe likes to make sense. Absent these two assumptions, SCIENCE ITSELF is rendered completely useless.

So yeah...I do not KNOW that physics are the same everywhere. But if physics were NOT the same everywhere, then things such as "study" and "experimentation" would be completely pointless. Absent any evident to the contrary, then physics work the same everywhere.

[QUOTE="brandontwb"][QUOTE="tormentor313"] dank makes you open minded, not closetormentor313

[QUOTE="brandontwb"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"] Again, you're falsely assuming that infinite space means that everything is possible.

You're saying that since space is infinite (which it isn't), then someone must have developed the "technology" to travel across an essentially INFINITE distance of space instantaneously.

And no, it doesn't work like that. Such technology isn't possible. You can pretend that space is as large as you want to, you're still not going to find something that is imspossible.

MrGeezer

I don't KNOW this, I'm making the assumption that physics here work the same as physics EVERYWHERE.

Science has to make certain ASSUMPTIONS, otherwise it would be impossible to draw any CONCLUSIONS. Seeing as how we DO get real conclusions, science has so far been pretty reliable in confirming our ability to be confident that these assumptions are valid.

And again, one of these assumptions is that physics work the same everywhere. If the universe were infinitely large, then the physics here would STILL apply everywhere. Absent any evidence to the contrary, we HAVE to trust the validity of hard empirical data. If it were somehow determined that the laws of physics DO vary locally, then this would completely invalidate all scientific study. The Hubble telescope would be completely worthless, since we wouldn't be able to connect the data that we get from it with the actual state of what it was looking at. This would be a weird universe in which what we sense has absolutely NO bearing on what is there. So when you marry your wife, you might have actually been marrying a Grizzly Bear on the rings of Saturn.

Absent any evidence to the contrary, these are two of the guiding assumptions which have resulted in every single piece of technological or intellectual advancement. Physics work the same everywhere, and the universe likes to make sense. Absent these two assumptions, SCIENCE ITSELF is rendered completely useless.

So yeah...I do not KNOW that physics are the same everywhere. But if physics were NOT the same everywhere, then things such as "study" and "experimentation" would be completely pointless. Absent any evident to the contrary, then physics work the same everywhere.

I think your taking the word infinite a little to seriously, from my knowledge the universe is actually expanding in size. The fact is that it is already so big that we can not even imagine how we could measure it, and plus the fact that no end has been discovered, to do the scientific calculations that we do, we must assume that it is infinite because if you really think about it... it might as well be infinite. I mean if it takes a few hundred thousand light years... LIGHT YEARS!!! which is basically instantly to reach the closest star... then just think how large the actual universe is. The assumption of infinity is much more accurate than any other measurements that we could assume.strawberry9

[QUOTE="strawberry9"]I think your taking the word infinite a little to seriously, from my knowledge the universe is actually expanding in size. The fact is that it is already so big that we can not even imagine how we could measure it, and plus the fact that no end has been discovered, to do the scientific calculations that we do, we must assume that it is infinite because if you really think about it... it might as well be infinite. I mean if it takes a few hundred thousand light years... LIGHT YEARS!!! which is basically instantly to reach the closest star... then just think how large the actual universe is. The assumption of infinity is much more accurate than any other measurements that we could assume.EMOEVOLUTION

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="brandontwb"]And you know this how?brandontwb

[QUOTE="brandontwb"][QUOTE="MrGeezer"] Again, you're falsely assuming that infinite space means that everything is possible.

You're saying that since space is infinite (which it isn't), then someone must have developed the "technology" to travel across an essentially INFINITE distance of space instantaneously.

And no, it doesn't work like that. Such technology isn't possible. You can pretend that space is as large as you want to, you're still not going to find something that is imspossible.

MrGeezer

I don't KNOW this, I'm making the assumption that physics here work the same as physics EVERYWHERE.

Science has to make certain ASSUMPTIONS, otherwise it would be impossible to draw any CONCLUSIONS. Seeing as how we DO get real conclusions, science has so far been pretty reliable in confirming our ability to be confident that these assumptions are valid.

And again, one of these assumptions is that physics work the same everywhere. If the universe were infinitely large, then the physics here would STILL apply everywhere. Absent any evidence to the contrary, we HAVE to trust the validity of hard empirical data. If it were somehow determined that the laws of physics DO vary locally, then this would completely invalidate all scientific study. The Hubble telescope would be completely worthless, since we wouldn't be able to connect the data that we get from it with the actual state of what it was looking at. This would be a weird universe in which what we sense has absolutely NO bearing on what is there. So when you marry your wife, you might have actually been marrying a Grizzly Bear on the rings of Saturn.

Absent any evidence to the contrary, these are two of the guiding assumptions which have resulted in every single piece of technological or intellectual advancement. Physics work the same everywhere, and the universe likes to make sense. Absent these two assumptions, SCIENCE ITSELF is rendered completely useless.

So yeah...I do not KNOW that physics are the same everywhere. But if physics were NOT the same everywhere, then things such as "study" and "experimentation" would be completely pointless. Absent any evident to the contrary, then physics work the same everywhere.

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"][QUOTE="strawberry9"]I think your taking the word infinite a little to seriously, from my knowledge the universe is actually expanding in size. The fact is that it is already so big that we can not even imagine how we could measure it, and plus the fact that no end has been discovered, to do the scientific calculations that we do, we must assume that it is infinite because if you really think about it... it might as well be infinite. I mean if it takes a few hundred thousand light years... LIGHT YEARS!!! which is basically instantly to reach the closest star... then just think how large the actual universe is. The assumption of infinity is much more accurate than any other measurements that we could assume.strawberry9

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"][QUOTE="brandontwb"]And you know this how?brandontwb

[QUOTE="brandontwb"]

[QUOTE="quiglythegreat"] I mean, I don't mean to speak for Mr. Geezer, but if you've ever studied any of the science involved, most of your claims or suppositions are just factually wrong as we currently understand the universe.bobaban

What are you talking on about? You were saying things like "such technology isn't possible" which yeah today isn't ( and it pretty close-minded thinking if you ask me) and also, you don't know the the universe isn't infinite either. I'm not pretending anything, I'm just suggesting something.brandontwb

If a kind of technology violates the laws of physics, then it is NEVER possible, ANYWHERE.

If you disagree, then go ahead and design a perpetual motion machine. You'll revolutionize the world. Only problem is that NO technology can ever overcome this obstacle, because such technolgy would have to by its very nature violate the basic laws of physics.

Technology that violates how physics work CAN NOT EXIST.

Dude, please do not fall into the trap of thinking that anything can happen with the right technology. That's also a pop-science misconception. People see a limitation and think "we could solve this problem if only we had more advanced technology". Wrong. Technology can solve some problems, but technology can't overcome the laws of physics. Your seemingly magical PC doesn't VIOLATE the laws of physics, it UTILIZES the laws of physics in its basic design.

And again, I do not KNOW that the universe isn't infinitely large. As I said before, as far as we know the universe isn't infinitely large. We could be wrong, though there's absolutely no evidence that we're wrong. But whether the universe is or isn't infinitely large, that's completely irrelevant to your claims about aliens. The universe is already big enough that it's PRACTICALLY infinite (as opposed to LITERALLY infinite). And it's hard enough to contact or reach other civilizations REGARDLESS of whether or not the universe is infinitely large. Infinite or not? For the purposes of this discussion, it makes no difference. It's already big enough.

considering that the universe is ever expanding...

I'd consider that infinite unless is has the rubberband effect.

considering that the universe is ever expanding...

I'd consider that infinite unless is has the rubberband effect.

samuraiguns

[QUOTE="brandontwb"]What are you talking on about? You were saying things like "such technology isn't possible" which yeah today isn't ( and it pretty close-minded thinking if you ask me) and also, you don't know the the universe isn't infinite either. I'm not pretending anything, I'm just suggesting something.MrGeezer

If a kind of technology violates the laws of physics, then it is NEVER possible, ANYWHERE.

If you disagree, then go ahead and design a perpetual motion machine. You'll revolutionize the world. Only problem is that NO technology can ever overcome this obstacle, because such technolgy would have to by its very nature violate the basic laws of physics.

Technology that violates how physics work CAN NOT EXIST.

Dude, please do not fall into the trap of thinking that anything can happen with the right technology. That's also a pop-science misconception. People see a limitation and think "we could solve this problem if only we had more advanced technology". Wrong. Technology can solve some problems, but technology can't overcome the laws of physics. Your seemingly magical PC doesn't VIOLATE the laws of physics, it UTILIZES the laws of physics in its basic design.

And again, I do not KNOW that the universe isn't infinitely large. As I said before, as far as we know the universe isn't infinitely large. We could be wrong, though there's absolutely no evidence that we're wrong. But whether the universe is or isn't infinitely large, that's completely irrelevant to your claims about aliens. The universe is already big enough that it's PRACTICALLY infinite (as opposed to LITERALLY infinite). And it's hard enough to contact or reach other civilizations REGARDLESS of whether or not the universe is infinitely large. Infinite or not? For the purposes of this discussion, it makes no difference. It's already big enough.

Uh...no.

For one, even if the universe were infinitely large (and as far as we know, it isn't), then that doesn't mean that there are infinite possibilities.

MrGeezer

That's what I would also think. If the universe WERE infinite, it's still limited to a finite amount of THINGS that could be contained based on how matter can arrange itself, which is also finite.

So it would contain an infinite amount of things that are determined by the finite amount of ways that matter can be arranged in.

[QUOTE="samuraiguns"]

considering that the universe is ever expanding...

I'd consider that infinite unless is has the rubberband effect.

quiglythegreat

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="brandontwb"]What are you talking on about? You were saying things like "such technology isn't possible" which yeah today isn't ( and it pretty close-minded thinking if you ask me) and also, you don't know the the universe isn't infinite either. I'm not pretending anything, I'm just suggesting something.samuraiguns

If a kind of technology violates the laws of physics, then it is NEVER possible, ANYWHERE.

If you disagree, then go ahead and design a perpetual motion machine. You'll revolutionize the world. Only problem is that NO technology can ever overcome this obstacle, because such technolgy would have to by its very nature violate the basic laws of physics.

Technology that violates how physics work CAN NOT EXIST.

Dude, please do not fall into the trap of thinking that anything can happen with the right technology. That's also a pop-science misconception. People see a limitation and think "we could solve this problem if only we had more advanced technology". Wrong. Technology can solve some problems, but technology can't overcome the laws of physics. Your seemingly magical PC doesn't VIOLATE the laws of physics, it UTILIZES the laws of physics in its basic design.

And again, I do not KNOW that the universe isn't infinitely large. As I said before, as far as we know the universe isn't infinitely large. We could be wrong, though there's absolutely no evidence that we're wrong. But whether the universe is or isn't infinitely large, that's completely irrelevant to your claims about aliens. The universe is already big enough that it's PRACTICALLY infinite (as opposed to LITERALLY infinite). And it's hard enough to contact or reach other civilizations REGARDLESS of whether or not the universe is infinitely large. Infinite or not? For the purposes of this discussion, it makes no difference. It's already big enough.

[QUOTE="bobaban"][QUOTE="brandontwb"]I'll make an analogy. Say a television starts to cycle through every possible combination of pixels with colours and brightness for an infinite amount of time. It may seem stupid, but many of the the pictures it produces will consist of: every human, animal, peice of text in every colour, shape distortion, a picture of every star, things we haven't seen, things that don't exist, what the world looked like when it was formed of every second, how microbs formed how a CD was manufactured at 12812810210271026192 angles ect ect ect. And that's not infinite. Infinite implies that it is NEVER ENDING POSSIBILITIES which means that there will be an infinite amount of whatever you can possibly imagine. That's if life is infinite.

EMOEVOLUTION

But the big bang says otherwise like I said.

[QUOTE="samuraiguns"]

considering that the universe is ever expanding...

I'd consider that infinite unless is has the rubberband effect.

quiglythegreat

Infinite CAN expand, depending on what kind of infinity we're talking about.

As in, an inch contains an "infinite" number of mathematical points. But it's still only an inch long.

As far as the OTHER kind of infinity goes, infinity can expand. The REAL important thing is that something that is FINITE in size cannot expand to an INFINITE size unless its rate of expansion is infinite.

All indications are that the universe "started" at a finite size.

All indications are that the universe has never experienced an infinite rate of expansion.

Therefore, the universe isn't infinitely large.

Though if had STARTED infinitely large, then it would be possible for it to expand.

Yeah, but...The universe is really, really, really big. I don't think your or any mind cane even comprehend the size and vastness of our universe. To say that life only exist on our planet is stupid. Also, I don't see what toaster like aliens battling over Earth against other appliance like aliens has to do with this topic.