Why the US will stay on top of the world despite the economy

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

The US won't stop spending on its military. The US is too big

Sonwhy

This shouldn't be so hard to grasp. It doesn't matter how much you spend; if the other guycan afford to spend more.

Wealth does not always translate into power.

Wealth is an expression of economic power.

Economic power is the key necessary input to createthe output of military power. There are other ingredients, but it is by the far the most important.

For the record, your position is now untenuous. Either spending/wealth is important (and the US will just keep spending, in your words) or it isn't important.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

[QUOTE="magicalclick"] Only him, not Americamagicalclick

Its too bad but thats how it is. There is a limited number of resources with an unlimited number of needs. Someone has to get cut off till there is more resources available.

I am confused. Are you American at all?

I am American. I don't see too much change taking place though. The US is not going to swap places with China or India. I know the US wants to keep peace but wars have been waged over the years for various reasons.

[QUOTE="magicalclick"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

Its too bad but thats how it is. There is a limited number of resources with an unlimited number of needs. Someone has to get cut off till there is more resources available.

Sonwhy

I am confused. Are you American at all?

I am American. I don't see too much change taking place though. The US is not going to swap places with China or India. I know the US wants to keep peace but wars have been waged over the years for various reasons.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

This shouldn't be so hard to grasp. It doesn't matter how much you spend; if the other guycan afford to spend more.

SUD123456

Wealth does not always translate into power.

Wealth is an expression of economic power.

Economic power is the key necessary input to createthe output of military power. There are other ingredients, but it is by the far the most important.

For the record, your position is now untenuous. Either spending/wealth is important (and the US will just keep spending, in your words) or it isn't important.

The US has 13 trillion dollars in debt. I don't see the US paying it back and there is only more borrowing to come. The military is not going to stop spending. Some reason you keep referring to military as if it were some type of regular business but its not. The US military does as it pleases and its not going out of business regardless of what happens. Unless the US gets wiped out in a war.

[QUOTE="carrot-cake"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

Wealth does not always translate into power.

Sonwhy

There are things you can't buy in this world no matter how much money you have. For example, Michael Jackson cannot buy F-22 Raptorno matter how much money he were to offer the Air Force if he were still alive. Also, there comes of technology and only letting certain places have so much of it to advance their military only so far.

Everything is locked in place. Hopefully someone doesn't get out of control but even if someone does I like my cards in this case.

This is where you are confused. It is not necessary for China to buy F-22 Raptors. Given time and budget, China will simply develop a superior aircraft. There is no magic secret sauce in an F22. It is an output of the size and strength of the US economy.

In the same way, if I had unlimited funds I could assemble a team of people to build me a car better/faster than any Porsche, Ferrari etc. Thus I could outperform my opponent on the racetrack, even if no one will sell me a Porsche or a Ferrari.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

[QUOTE="carrot-cake"]
Of course it does, as long as you have assets at your disposal, and you have more than the other guys, then you do have power. Its all about who the biggest bully in the playground is.

SUD123456

There are things you can't buy in this world no matter how much money you have. For example, Michael Jackson cannot buy F-22 Raptorno matter how much money he were to offer the Air Force if he were still alive. Also, there comes of technology and only letting certain places have so much of it to advance their military only so far.

Everything is locked in place. Hopefully someone doesn't get out of control but even if someone does I like my cards in this case.

This is where you are confused. It is not necessary for China to buy F-22 Raptors. Given time and budget, China will simply develop a superior aircraft. There is no magic secret sauce in an F22. It is an output of the size and strength of the US economy.

In the same way, if I had unlimited funds I could assemble a team of people to build me a car better/faster than any Porsche, Ferrari etc. Thus I could outperform my opponent on the racetrack, even if no one will sell me a Porsche or a Ferrari.

Thats why there is spys and what not to monitor things. Even though everyone is friends it only goes so far. Yeah with unlimited funds you could assemble whatever kind of car you could dream of but you wouldn't not get very far trying to make your own nuke.

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

Wealth does not always translate into power.

Sonwhy

Wealth is an expression of economic power.

Economic power is the key necessary input to createthe output of military power. There are other ingredients, but it is by the far the most important.

For the record, your position is now untenuous. Either spending/wealth is important (and the US will just keep spending, in your words) or it isn't important.

The US has 13 trillion dollars in debt. I don't see the US paying it back and there is only more borrowing to come. The military is not going to stop spending. Some reason you keep referring to military as if it were some type of regular business but its not. The US military does as it pleases and its not going out of business regardless of what happens. Unless the US gets wiped out in a war.

I feel the wars in the middle east have shown the US military to not be as utterly indestrucible as the US would like the world to believe.

The US also really hasn't proved it can stand up to another super power. I have doubt we could win a war against Russia or China. And I mean a WAR. Not a coldwar.

[QUOTE="Diablo112688"]You have no idea about what you are talking about... do you? Sounds like mindless babble to me. Sonwhy

I know exactly what I'm talking about. The US will remain dominate in military power and have the latest technology among other things that the top dog has. Unlike a country such as Africa or India.

Africa isn't a country.

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

I know exactly what I'm talking about. The US will remain dominate in military power and have the latest technology among other things that the top dog has. Unlike a country such as Africa or India.

Sonwhy

Like I said its not going to stop. Money is no object to the US gov. The US has given you life and now you question the manner in which it is given?

If it was not for the US you may not even be alive. Myself included

I find it cute when people act as if the US singlehandedly fought and won WW2.

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

There are things you can't buy in this world no matter how much money you have. For example, Michael Jackson cannot buy F-22 Raptorno matter how much money he were to offer the Air Force if he were still alive. Also, there comes of technology and only letting certain places have so much of it to advance their military only so far.

Everything is locked in place. Hopefully someone doesn't get out of control but even if someone does I like my cards in this case.

Sonwhy

This is where you are confused. It is not necessary for China to buy F-22 Raptors. Given time and budget, China will simply develop a superior aircraft. There is no magic secret sauce in an F22. It is an output of the size and strength of the US economy.

In the same way, if I had unlimited funds I could assemble a team of people to build me a car better/faster than any Porsche, Ferrari etc. Thus I could outperform my opponent on the racetrack, even if no one will sell me a Porsche or a Ferrari.

Thats why there is spys and what not to monitor things. Even though everyone is friends it only goes so far. Yeah with unlimited funds you could assemble whatever kind of car you could dream of but you wouldn't not get very far trying to make your own nuke.

We are talking about what China can or cannot do, not me. The automobile example is an analogy about what a private citizen could do, with sufficient economic power. How exactly are you going to stop China from developing an aircraft superior to the F22? The answer is you cannot stop them from doing so, short of starting a nuclear war....which doesn't seem a viable solution :) The same applies to every weapons system.

Which leads us back to China will outpace the US economy. This is unstoppable. This inevitably leads to outpacing the US military. It is only a question of time. Or whether we kill ourselves off first. Or I suppose, if we learn to live in peace and harmony first, making the military irrelevant.

Unlike a country such as Africa

Sonwhy

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

[QUOTE="sonicare"] The reason the US has the most dominate military power is because we have the largest economy of any nation and spend the most money on our military. We can't afford to keep doing that. Pixel-Pirate

Like I said its not going to stop. Money is no object to the US gov. The US has given you life and now you question the manner in which it is given?

If it was not for the US you may not even be alive. Myself included

I find it cute when people act as if the US singlehandedly fought and won WW2.

The US had a pretty big size role in it. Like I said, what was everyone else waiting for? For Germany to take over all of Europe?

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

[QUOTE="carrot-cake"]
Of course it does, as long as you have assets at your disposal, and you have more than the other guys, then you do have power. Its all about who the biggest bully in the playground is.

SUD123456

There are things you can't buy in this world no matter how much money you have. For example, Michael Jackson cannot buy F-22 Raptorno matter how much money he were to offer the Air Force if he were still alive. Also, there comes of technology and only letting certain places have so much of it to advance their military only so far.

Everything is locked in place. Hopefully someone doesn't get out of control but even if someone does I like my cards in this case.

This is where you are confused. It is not necessary for China to buy F-22 Raptors. Given time and budget, China will simply develop a superior aircraft. There is no magic secret sauce in an F22. It is an output of the size and strength of the US economy.

In the same way, if I had unlimited funds I could assemble a team of people to build me a car better/faster than any Porsche, Ferrari etc. Thus I could outperform my opponent on the racetrack, even if no one will sell me a Porsche or a Ferrari.

Except China seems to be horrible in R&D. Hence why everything they have are cheap knockoffs of superior technology from other countries.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

This is where you are confused. It is not necessary for China to buy F-22 Raptors. Given time and budget, China will simply develop a superior aircraft. There is no magic secret sauce in an F22. It is an output of the size and strength of the US economy.

In the same way, if I had unlimited funds I could assemble a team of people to build me a car better/faster than any Porsche, Ferrari etc. Thus I could outperform my opponent on the racetrack, even if no one will sell me a Porsche or a Ferrari.

SUD123456

Thats why there is spys and what not to monitor things. Even though everyone is friends it only goes so far. Yeah with unlimited funds you could assemble whatever kind of car you could dream of but you wouldn't not get very far trying to make your own nuke.

We are talking about what China can or cannot do, not me. The automobile example is an analogy about what a private citizen could do, with sufficient economic power. How exactly are you going to stop China from developing an aircraft superior to the F22? The answer is you cannot stop them from doing so, short of starting a nuclear war....which doesn't seem a viable solution :) The same applies to every weapons system.

Which leads us back to China will outpace the US economy. This is unstoppable. This inevitably leads to outpacing the US military. It is only a question of time. Or whether we kill ourselves off first. Or I suppose, if we learn to live in peace and harmony first, making the military irrelevant.

Like I said, there are lines you can and cannot cross whether its a person or another countrys military. Obvious a countrys military would be able to develop somethings that a person on their own would not be able to but I believe that there are limits impossed on this by other militarys. In other words a military can only develop things so much before another military says thats as far as you go with whatever your doing.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

Like I said its not going to stop. Money is no object to the US gov. The US has given you life and now you question the manner in which it is given?

If it was not for the US you may not even be alive. Myself included

Sonwhy

I find it cute when people act as if the US singlehandedly fought and won WW2.

The US had a pretty big size role in it. Like I said, what was everyone else waiting for? For Germany to take over all of Europe?

What was the US waiting for? Someone to bomb them?

That's what it took for them to even become interested in the war.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

This is where you are confused. It is not necessary for China to buy F-22 Raptors. Given time and budget, China will simply develop a superior aircraft. There is no magic secret sauce in an F22. It is an output of the size and strength of the US economy.

In the same way, if I had unlimited funds I could assemble a team of people to build me a car better/faster than any Porsche, Ferrari etc. Thus I could outperform my opponent on the racetrack, even if no one will sell me a Porsche or a Ferrari.

SUD123456

Thats why there is spys and what not to monitor things. Even though everyone is friends it only goes so far. Yeah with unlimited funds you could assemble whatever kind of car you could dream of but you wouldn't not get very far trying to make your own nuke.

We are talking about what China can or cannot do, not me. The automobile example is an analogy about what a private citizen could do, with sufficient economic power. How exactly are you going to stop China from developing an aircraft superior to the F22? The answer is you cannot stop them from doing so, short of starting a nuclear war....which doesn't seem a viable solution :) The same applies to every weapons system.

Which leads us back to China will outpace the US economy. This is unstoppable. This inevitably leads to outpacing the US military. It is only a question of time. Or whether we kill ourselves off first. Or I suppose, if we learn to live in peace and harmony first, making the military irrelevant.

Not gonna happen. Economies don't go to war but people do.

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

There are things you can't buy in this world no matter how much money you have. For example, Michael Jackson cannot buy F-22 Raptorno matter how much money he were to offer the Air Force if he were still alive. Also, there comes of technology and only letting certain places have so much of it to advance their military only so far.

Everything is locked in place. Hopefully someone doesn't get out of control but even if someone does I like my cards in this case.

xionvalkyrie

This is where you are confused. It is not necessary for China to buy F-22 Raptors. Given time and budget, China will simply develop a superior aircraft. There is no magic secret sauce in an F22. It is an output of the size and strength of the US economy.

In the same way, if I had unlimited funds I could assemble a team of people to build me a car better/faster than any Porsche, Ferrari etc. Thus I could outperform my opponent on the racetrack, even if no one will sell me a Porsche or a Ferrari.

Except China seems to be horrible in R&D. Hence why everything they have are cheap knockoffs of superior technology from other countries.

In general this is true, the question is why? Is it because they are stupid? No. Is it because they lack the education/scientists/engineers? No.

It is because they choose to do so, which is the same choice you or I would make in their circumstance. If you want I can explain the basics of the Chinese economy, why it is that way and how it affects the US, but I am not going to write that unless someone is genuinely interested.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

Like I said its not going to stop. Money is no object to the US gov. The US has given you life and now you question the manner in which it is given?

If it was not for the US you may not even be alive. Myself included

Sonwhy

I find it cute when people act as if the US singlehandedly fought and won WW2.

The US had a pretty big size role in it. Like I said, what was everyone else waiting for? For Germany to take over all of Europe?

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

I find it cute when people act as if the US singlehandedly fought and won WW2.

Pixel-Pirate

The US had a pretty big size role in it. Like I said, what was everyone else waiting for? For Germany to take over all of Europe?

What was the US waiting for? Someone to bomb them?

That's what it took for them to even become interested in the war.

The US was the first to put an end to Germany and they were all the way across the Atlantic. The US was involved in the war before Japan bombed them.

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

Thats why there is spys and what not to monitor things. Even though everyone is friends it only goes so far. Yeah with unlimited funds you could assemble whatever kind of car you could dream of but you wouldn't not get very far trying to make your own nuke.

Sonwhy

We are talking about what China can or cannot do, not me. The automobile example is an analogy about what a private citizen could do, with sufficient economic power. How exactly are you going to stop China from developing an aircraft superior to the F22? The answer is you cannot stop them from doing so, short of starting a nuclear war....which doesn't seem a viable solution :) The same applies to every weapons system.

Which leads us back to China will outpace the US economy. This is unstoppable. This inevitably leads to outpacing the US military. It is only a question of time. Or whether we kill ourselves off first. Or I suppose, if we learn to live in peace and harmony first, making the military irrelevant.

Not gonna happen. Economies don't go to war but people do.

Yep, people go to war. Of course, what stuff the have to go to war with depends upon their economy. Which is the point.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

The US had a pretty big size role in it. Like I said, what was everyone else waiting for? For Germany to take over all of Europe?

Sonwhy

What was the US waiting for? Someone to bomb them?

That's what it took for them to even become interested in the war.

The US was the first to put an end to Germany and they were all the way across the Atlantic. The US was involved in the war before Japan bombed them.

I am 100% confused about that you're trying to say. Are you saying that the US is unstoppable?

Yep, America single handedly took on Japan and Germany while the rest of europe just sat around twiddling their thumbs. Also Russia did nothing, it was all America.

I love American revisionist history "And then we got in our megazords and Hitler was all like 'No mister strong american! Don't hurt me!' and we were all like 'BAM!' and thats how we won the war! And then europe was all like 'thank you America!'"

Yep, America single handedly took on Japan and Germany while the rest of europe just sat around twiddling their thumbs. Also Russia did nothing, it was all America.

I love American revisionist history "And then we got in our megazords and Hitler was all like 'No mister strong american! Don't hurt me!' and we were all like 'BAM!' and thats how we won the war! And then europe was all like 'thank you America!'"

Pixel-Pirate

No, but America was by far one of the biggest contributors to the victory. It's not like the Allies were steamrolling Germany before America entered.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

We are talking about what China can or cannot do, not me. The automobile example is an analogy about what a private citizen could do, with sufficient economic power. How exactly are you going to stop China from developing an aircraft superior to the F22? The answer is you cannot stop them from doing so, short of starting a nuclear war....which doesn't seem a viable solution :) The same applies to every weapons system.

Which leads us back to China will outpace the US economy. This is unstoppable. This inevitably leads to outpacing the US military. It is only a question of time. Or whether we kill ourselves off first. Or I suppose, if we learn to live in peace and harmony first, making the military irrelevant.

SUD123456

Not gonna happen. Economies don't go to war but people do.

Yep, people go to war. Of course, what stuff the have to go to war with depends upon their economy. Which is the point.

The US is not going to stop spending on the military. They already don't have the money but it does not matter. The US is not going to give over their power because China is more productive. China can make all the money in the world but their military is going to be limited by other more powerful militarys that won't budge an inch on the ladder just because China has more money. You really need to grasp the concept that money is not everything. Its a valuable tool to have in war but there are more important things in todays military.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Yep, America single handedly took on Japan and Germany while the rest of europe just sat around twiddling their thumbs. Also Russia did nothing, it was all America.

I love American revisionist history "And then we got in our megazords and Hitler was all like 'No mister strong american! Don't hurt me!' and we were all like 'BAM!' and thats how we won the war! And then europe was all like 'thank you America!'"

789shadow

No, but America was by far one of the biggest contributors to the victory. It's not like the Allies were steamrolling Germany before America entered.

The Russians most certainly were. Russia gets the prize for top dog in World War II.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Yep, America single handedly took on Japan and Germany while the rest of europe just sat around twiddling their thumbs. Also Russia did nothing, it was all America.

I love American revisionist history "And then we got in our megazords and Hitler was all like 'No mister strong american! Don't hurt me!' and we were all like 'BAM!' and thats how we won the war! And then europe was all like 'thank you America!'"

Mercury_May2112

No, but America was by far one of the biggest contributors to the victory. It's not like the Allies were steamrolling Germany before America entered.

The Russians most certainly were. Russia gets the prize for top dog in World War II.

Would you like to explain why?

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

What was the US waiting for? Someone to bomb them?

That's what it took for them to even become interested in the war.

Mercury_May2112

The US was the first to put an end to Germany and they were all the way across the Atlantic. The US was involved in the war before Japan bombed them.

I am 100% confused about that you're trying to say. Are you saying that the US is unstoppable?

I wouldn't go as far to say as unstopable but lets just say if the US military is gonna go from #1 in military power to #5 in military power around the world because other countries are more productive than there is gonna be some major **** that ends up happening or those other countries that are more productive are only going to be able to do so much with their military as a result of the top dog not wanting to go down the ladder.

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

Not gonna happen. Economies don't go to war but people do.

Sonwhy

Yep, people go to war. Of course, what stuff the have to go to war with depends upon their economy. Which is the point.

The US is not going to stop spending on the military. They already don't have the money but it does not matter. The US is not going to give over their power because China is more productive. China can make all the money in the world but their military is going to be limited by other more powerful militarys that won't budge an inch on the ladder just because China has more money. You really need to grasp the concept that money is not everything. Its a valuable tool to have in war but there are more important things in todays military.

You are confused. The US defeated the USSR without firing a shot directly at them. Neither the US nor the USSR stopped spending on the military, However, the West ended up being much stronger economically which led to both a better military and a huge competitive advantage; the two go hand in hand. You seem to think that this will be decided by war. But these are nuclear powers. By definition it won't be decided by war. China will surpass the US in both economic and military might without a shot fired.

This is because there is nothing the US military can do to stop China from becoming the most powerful economy. And there is nothing the US military can do to stop China from continuing to improve its military. China is a regional power with global nuclear reach. They aren't about to go about invading countries around the world, and why would they when they know they will eventually emerge a world leader?

They aren't pyschotic meglomaniacs, nor are they even heathen commies anymore. They are also impervious to invasion. The most horrifying thing the US military could envision short of nuke war is a ground war in Asia which is unwinnable. So, there will be no war with China. And why would we want that when they are going to emerge as dirty rotten capitalist pigs not much different than the West is today?

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Yep, America single handedly took on Japan and Germany while the rest of europe just sat around twiddling their thumbs. Also Russia did nothing, it was all America.

I love American revisionist history "And then we got in our megazords and Hitler was all like 'No mister strong american! Don't hurt me!' and we were all like 'BAM!' and thats how we won the war! And then europe was all like 'thank you America!'"

789shadow

No, but America was by far one of the biggest contributors to the victory. It's not like the Allies were steamrolling Germany before America entered.

I'd say Russia did more. But i get sick of how people act as if US did all the work and were the heroes and everyone else just sat on their asses.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Yep, America single handedly took on Japan and Germany while the rest of europe just sat around twiddling their thumbs. Also Russia did nothing, it was all America.

I love American revisionist history "And then we got in our megazords and Hitler was all like 'No mister strong american! Don't hurt me!' and we were all like 'BAM!' and thats how we won the war! And then europe was all like 'thank you America!'"

Pixel-Pirate

No, but America was by far one of the biggest contributors to the victory. It's not like the Allies were steamrolling Germany before America entered.

I'd say Russia did more. But i get sick of how people act as if US did all the work and were the heroes and everyone else just sat on their asses.

I think you intrepret things the wrong way. If the US had not have helped, Germany may have taken over the world. The US did have help but if you US had not have helped, I'm not sure if Germany could have been stopped.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

[QUOTE="SUD123456"]

Yep, people go to war. Of course, what stuff the have to go to war with depends upon their economy. Which is the point.

SUD123456

The US is not going to stop spending on the military. They already don't have the money but it does not matter. The US is not going to give over their power because China is more productive. China can make all the money in the world but their military is going to be limited by other more powerful militarys that won't budge an inch on the ladder just because China has more money. You really need to grasp the concept that money is not everything. Its a valuable tool to have in war but there are more important things in todays military.

You are confused. The US defeated the USSR without firing a shot directly at them. Neither the US nor the USSR stopped spending on the military, However, the West ended up being much stronger economically which led to both a better military and a huge competitive advantage; the two go hand in hand. You seem to think that this will be decided by war. But these are nuclear powers. By definition it won't be decided by war. China will surpass the US in both economic and military might without a shot fired.

This is because there is nothing the US military can do to stop China from becoming the most powerful economy. And there is nothing the US military can do to stop China from continuing to improve its military. China is a regional power with global nuclear reach. They aren't about to go about invading countries around the world, and why would they when they know they will eventually emerge a world leader?

They aren't pyschotic meglomaniacs, nor are they even heathen commies anymore. They are also impervious to invasion. The most horrifying thing the US military could envision short of nuke war is a ground war in Asia which is unwinnable. So, there will be no war with China. And why would we want that when they are going to emerge as dirty rotten capitalist pigs not much different than the West is today?

Because the West still wants to pig out. Odds are the West will still be able to pig out even though China has a bigger stake in things. I stilld don't see the US military dropping out of the #1 spot regardless of what happens. There is something the US can do to stop China from developing their military. The top dogs in military power want things to stay as they are because things are safe in the present the top dogs will keep it that way but the US as a country still has to prosper some way some how.

[QUOTE="sonicare"][QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

Like I said its not going to stop. Money is no object to the US gov. The US has given you life and now you question the manner in which it is given?

If the US had not won world war 2 .

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Yep, America single handedly took on Japan and Germany while the rest of europe just sat around twiddling their thumbs. Also Russia did nothing, it was all America.

I love American revisionist history "And then we got in our megazords and Hitler was all like 'No mister strong american! Don't hurt me!' and we were all like 'BAM!' and thats how we won the war! And then europe was all like 'thank you America!'"

Pixel-Pirate

No, but America was by far one of the biggest contributors to the victory. It's not like the Allies were steamrolling Germany before America entered.

I'd say Russia did more. But i get sick of how people act as if US did all the work and were the heroes and everyone else just sat on their asses.

On Dec 5/6th, 1941 Russian forces counter attacked the vanguard of German forces on the outskirts of Moscow, driving them back 100 miles initially, and 500 miles by Apr 1942. Late on the evening of Dec 6th, many of the most seniorGerman officers in OKW declared that Germany had lost the war and that a general retreat should be initiated immediately to preserve as many German forces as possible against the coming Russian onslaughts.

Hitler was furious, and immediately sacked a number of senior officers. Ten days later on Dec 16th he ordered all German forces to hold in place in a suicide stand. Hitler was right in the short term as the Germans buckled but did not completely disintegrate. However, his officers were right in the long term as Germany never launched a multiple front offensive again and never seriously threatened Moscow again. The Russian counter attack Dec 1941 - Apr 1942 led to the limited German summer offensive in 1942 that we know as Stalingrad. Followed by the 2nd Russian conterttack against Stalingrad in winter 1942.

On Dec 7th 1941, Japan bombed Pearl Harbour.

For the remainder of the war, 80% of all German combat power was deployed on the Eastern Front, until Dec 1944 when the last carefully hoarded reserves were sent againt the western forces in the Ardennes.

Draw your own conclusions as to the relative importance of the Russkies.

I think the days of having the greatest military force is coming to an end. These days, instead of seeing a patriotic fervor (which isn't bad at all), you see mass protests, disdain for American foreign affairs home and abroad, and a history of foreign blowbacks that affected us in ways, uniminaginable (i.e. Afghanistan).

As for the economy, a prosperous economy is the cure for the ills of today's society. Most importantly, the people need to realize that government needs to mind its own business and do what it should be doing since the USA was formed - to protect our rights and defend our country whenever there is an attack. Most importantly, we need to realize that individualism is perferable.

It will never happen though. Not because the government will not eliminate unnecessary rules, laws, and regulations but because the people will never let that happen, all because of fear, fear of what will happen if the government isn't there to help them.

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

No, but America was by far one of the biggest contributors to the victory. It's not like the Allies were steamrolling Germany before America entered.

Sonwhy

I'd say Russia did more. But i get sick of how people act as if US did all the work and were the heroes and everyone else just sat on their asses.

I think you intrepret things the wrong way. If the US had not have helped, Germany may have taken over the world. The US did have help but if you US had not have helped, I'm not sure if Germany could have been stopped.

And had Russia, the UK, etc etc etc had not helped I'm not sure if Germany could have been stopped.

It was a joint effort. I think all those countries were necessary to success but most act as if all the other countries could of dropped out of the war and the US would of won by itself.

[QUOTE="789shadow"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

Yep, America single handedly took on Japan and Germany while the rest of europe just sat around twiddling their thumbs. Also Russia did nothing, it was all America.

I love American revisionist history "And then we got in our megazords and Hitler was all like 'No mister strong american! Don't hurt me!' and we were all like 'BAM!' and thats how we won the war! And then europe was all like 'thank you America!'"

Pixel-Pirate

No, but America was by far one of the biggest contributors to the victory. It's not like the Allies were steamrolling Germany before America entered.

I'd say Russia did more. But i get sick of how people act as if US did all the work and were the heroes and everyone else just sat on their asses.

Indeed – the 'US saved your asses' attitude undermines the contribution from other countries. Disrespectful even to other allies, some of who lost greater numbers per capita. It was a joint effort – everyone played their part to get the final outcome.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

[QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

I'd say Russia did more. But i get sick of how people act as if US did all the work and were the heroes and everyone else just sat on their asses.

I think you intrepret things the wrong way. If the US had not have helped, Germany may have taken over the world. The US did have help but if you US had not have helped, I'm not sure if Germany could have been stopped.

And had Russia, the UK, etc etc etc had not helped I'm not sure if Germany could have been stopped.

It was a joint effort. I think all those countries were necessary to success but most act as if all the other countries could of dropped out of the war and the US would of won by itself.

I don't know how the US can keep spending that much on the military when countries are reluctant in granting any more money for them.

[QUOTE="Sonwhy"]

I think you intrepret things the wrong way. If the US had not have helped, Germany may have taken over the world. The US did have help but if you US had not have helped, I'm not sure if Germany could have been stopped.

And had Russia, the UK, etc etc etc had not helped I'm not sure if Germany could have been stopped.

It was a joint effort. I think all those countries were necessary to success but most act as if all the other countries could of dropped out of the war and the US would of won by itself.

[QUOTE="Bitter_Altmer"][QUOTE="Pixel-Pirate"]

And had Russia, the UK, etc etc etc had not helped I'm not sure if Germany could have been stopped.

It was a joint effort. I think all those countries were necessary to success but most act as if all the other countries could of dropped out of the war and the US would of won by itself.

F1_2004

[QUOTE="F1_2004"][QUOTE="Bitter_Altmer"] Its been proven that the Russian eastern front was around 4 times the scale of the western front America fought on.Hitler obviously could have done more to take more control of Europe than he did.But it didn't matter, it was only a question of how much of Europe Hitler controlled before Stalin inevitably crushed him. If it weren't for Russia, the world would be a much more different place.Bitter_Altmer

[QUOTE="Bitter_Altmer"]

[QUOTE="F1_2004"] If it weren't for the British Isles, Hitler wouldn't have needed to divert troops and resources to the Western European and North African theatres, preventing the Americans from getting a foothold in Europe and shifting the balance in the war vs. Russia. There's a lot of "ifs", but the fact is that history played out the way it did. There is no one country that saved Europe from the Nazis.F1_2004

Stalin was a paranoid idiot who killed off his top generals for mere suspicion, but yes if the US had not entered, the allies would have most likely still won, just with more deaths (particularly on the russian side) and it would have taken far more time. I'm only talking about the war in europe btw.

Edit: killed off his top generals long before the war had started.

[QUOTE="Bitter_Altmer"]

[QUOTE="F1_2004"] If it weren't for the British Isles, Hitler wouldn't have needed to divert troops and resources to the Western European and North African theatres, preventing the Americans from getting a foothold in Europe and shifting the balance in the war vs. Russia. There's a lot of "ifs", but the fact is that history played out the way it did. There is no one country that saved Europe from the Nazis.F1_2004

Thats a very common misconception, the opinion that "If the nazi's didn't do this" or "If the nazi's did this" .. that kinda ignores the fact that he needed luck to win against the allies, which lets face it, he did need.It doesn't really matter if Hitler did have other things to worry about, at the end of the day, Stalin was waiting behind him to the East with resources in greater numbers in the Ural mountains, and with a population that far exceeded Germany's.Having said that, certain defeat by the Russians might have been avoided if Hitler hadn't foolishly broken the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact.