Wisconsin they are not telling the entire story in most of the news stories.

California has the same trouble. We can't afford to give all the state employees a free ride anmore.

the high cost of the sweet benefit deals and retirement packages state workers gained is bankrupting the taxpayers of many states.

California is having to try and figure something out. Too many are dipping in to an empty state till.

In Wisconsin the teachers of the state cost the taxpers over 100,000 dollars EACH for their benefit packages because

everyone in the private sector who pays on the average 20% of their in come towards their benefits.

Wisconsin allowed the government workers unions to become too damn strong and the teachers pay only 5% towards their benefits.

the taxpayers are stuck for the rest and that is why the elected Walker on the promise to lower the onerous taxes in the state.

This law will NOT cripple the unions and the teachers still will have a sweet deal they just will now be paing 12% towards benefits instead

of 5% and the union is not allowed to automaticall deduct dues from EVERY teacher.

in other words if you work for the public school system you don't have a choice you are in the damn union like it or not.

after this bill Wisconsin state employees will have the option of whether or not to pay dues towards the state employees union.

unions had ther place once but never should it be mandatory to be forced to join.

anything.

I agree. Why should the private workers have to be burdened with wisconsins debt and the public workers get a free ride?

Unions are just more entitled than the rest of the non-union people.

Look at the Health Care exemptions the unions got.

Yep. And I can't believe the way some of these politicians are acting.

Well, I guess I can beileve, but it's still stupid.

let's hear another round of "aw the poor teachers" how rough the have it.

by the way they are working on the average 35 hours a week 22 of which is in the cIassroom.

of course they don't work a full year either.....unless they opt for overtime and teach one or two summer courses.

ONCE again - teachers have it hard. please explain in simple terms how a teacher these days has a hard job.

they can't be fired even when they are incompitent tenure should never be a factor for teaching positions.

the children are more important than some whiny teachers.

you have a sweet deal working part of the year and making more in benefits than most of us get in salary.

NO cause for all that whining....it was in the 19th century that teachers had it hard and not since the days of the one room school has it been a bad job.

you are supposed to be dedicated to helping kids....NOT to having both trotters in the public trough.

let's hear another round of "aw the poor teachers" how rough the have it.

by the way they are working on the average 35 hours a week 22 of which is in the cIassroom.

of course they don't work a full year either.....unless they opt for overtime and teach one or two summer courses.

ONCE again - teachers have it hard. please explain in simple terms how a teacher these days has a hard job.

they can't be fired even when they are incompitent tenure should never be a factor for teaching positions.

the children are more important than some whiny teachers.

you have a sweet deal working part of the year and making more in benefits than most of us get in salary.

NO cause for all that whining....it was in the 19th century that teachers had it hard and not since the days of the one room school has it been a bad job.

you are supposed to be dedicated to helping kids....NOT to having both trotters in the public trough.

iowastate

35 hours a week is a pretty common misconception. Do you actually believe that teachers arrive and leave work at the same time as students? Planning, grading, meetings, workshops, inservice, my work weeks are usually anywhere from 50-55 hours a week, and because I need 60 workshop hours per year outside of contract time, I have to give up a lot of saturdays and days during my summer "vacation".UT_Wrestler

You are probably one of the hard working teachers, and I'm not being sarcastic. I have quite a few friends that are teachers, and some are like you, and others don't seem to work that hard at all, unless they are lying on their facebook. Every school vacation, they are gone like the wind to Disney, or this place or that or how they are looking forward to lazing away the summer. (I hate braggards).

But maybe its like any job, where you have mediocre employees and hard working ones.

[QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"]35 hours a week is a pretty common misconception. Do you actually believe that teachers arrive and leave work at the same time as students? Planning, grading, meetings, workshops, inservice, my work weeks are usually anywhere from 50-55 hours a week, and because I need 60 workshop hours per year outside of contract time, I have to give up a lot of saturdays and days during my summer "vacation".flazzle

You are probably one of the hard working teachers, and I'm not being sarcastic. I have quite a few friends that are teachers, and some are like you, and others don't seem to work that hard at all, unless they are lying on their facebook. Every school vacation, they are gone like the wind to Disney, or this place or that or how they are looking forward to lazing away the summer. (I hate braggards).

But maybe its like any job, where you have mediocre employees and hard working ones.

Believe me, this is 100% true. There are horrible teachers out there as I've seen plenty doing obeservations.

35 hours a week is a pretty common misconception. Do you actually believe that teachers arrive and leave work at the same time as students? Planning, grading, meetings, workshops, inservice, my work weeks are usually anywhere from 50-55 hours a week, and because I need 60 workshop hours per year outside of contract time, I have to give up a lot of saturdays and days during my summer "vacation".UT_Wrestler

[QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"]35 hours a week is a pretty common misconception. Do you actually believe that teachers arrive and leave work at the same time as students? Planning, grading, meetings, workshops, inservice, my work weeks are usually anywhere from 50-55 hours a week, and because I need 60 workshop hours per year outside of contract time, I have to give up a lot of saturdays and days during my summer "vacation".LJS9502_basic

Most state workers are not going to get wealthy on their salary. They can pay the bills and have a bit left. Rather than complain about state workers...why not go after politicians who make more than is necessary to live and have perks that are beyond ridiculous?LJS9502_basic

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Most state workers are not going to get wealthy on their salary. They can pay the bills and have a bit left. Rather than complain about state workers...why not go after politicians who make more than is necessary to live and have perks that are beyond ridiculous?Elraptor

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Most state workers are not going to get wealthy on their salary. They can pay the bills and have a bit left. Rather than complain about state workers...why not go after politicians who make more than is necessary to live and have perks that are beyond ridiculous?Elraptor

WI state legislators get $49,943 plus per diem (when in session). It looks like they are full time unlike other state legislatures that may or may not be full time (I know Georgia has a part time legislature).

those who are leaving the state to avoid a vote should be kicked out of their job. It is their job to show up whether or not they vote!

those who are leaving the state to avoid a vote should be kicked out of their job. It is their job to show up whether or not they vote!

VintageClock

Actually what is being left out is how this is a strategic attack against leftist groups.

1. Exactly three groups were exempt. Those were the groups that supported the repubilcan governor in the race.

2. Wisconson's budget was fine before the new "fiscal conservative" governor came in and cut $140,000,000 in special interests tax breaks for corporations that support the groups that support him.

The unions are not the problem here.

those who are leaving the state to avoid a vote should be kicked out of their job. It is their job to show up whether or not they vote!

VintageClock

This is a blatant attack on the people just to hurt the democratic party. How you can support a vote on such a blatant attack on the citizens of that state just to better a parties possition is beyond me. It's incredibly disgusting.

Um, I think you're the one not telling the entire story. The state workers HAVE taken pay cuts and HAVE said repeatedly they're willing to come to the table to talk about even more pay cuts, that's not the issue here. The issue here is ending collective bargaining, which is completely unacceptable to any American who knows the importanceof unions. The issue is also that Scott Walker came out and said not only that he wants to bust unions in Wisconsin but all over the country. The issue is not taking pay cuts, the issue is preserving unions as an institution in this country.

Actually what is being left out is how this is a strategic attack against leftist groups.

1. Exactly three groups were exempt. Those were the groups that supported the repubilcan governor in the race.

2. Wisconson's budget was fine before the new "fiscal conservative" governor came in and cut $140,000,000 in special interests tax breaks for corporations that support the groups that support him.

The unions are not the problem here.

Guybrush_3

3. The people protesting aren't protesting simply because of the insurance rate hike, they are protesting because some of their rights as workers (the right to collectively bargain) are being removed for no apparent reason.

Actually what is being left out is how this is a strategic attack against leftist groups.

1. Exactly three groups were exempt. Those were the groups that supported the repubilcan governor in the race.

Guybrush_3

Well, that bit of news is new to me. Which groups were exempt?

2. Wisconson's budget was fine before the new "fiscal conservative" governor came in and cut $140,000,000 in special interests tax breaks for corporations that support the groups that support him.

Guybrush_3

This is a large part of the problem at the national level, too. Pass tax cuts and then complain that government programs are bankrupting the country.

those who are leaving the state to avoid a vote should be kicked out of their job. It is their job to show up whether or not they vote!

VintageClock

I'm puzzled as to how public employees with a bachelor's degree, who make up by far the majority of public employees, could be considered to be receiving a "free ride" when they make on average over $5,000 per year less than their private sector counterparts.

I'm puzzled as to how public employees with a bachelor's degree, who make up by far the majority of public employees, could be considered to be receiving a "free ride" when they make on average over $5,000 per year less than their private sector counterparts.

GabuEx

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I'm puzzled as to how public employees with a bachelor's degree, who make up by far the majority of public employees, could be considered to be receiving a "free ride" when they make on average over $5,000 per year less than their private sector counterparts.

mattbbpl

No, it's not, but people act as though public employees are all Scrooge McDuck, swimming in money in their vast personal vaults filled with gold coins they've looted from the population.

I'm puzzled as to how public employees with a bachelor's degree, who make up by far the majority of public employees, could be considered to be receiving a "free ride" when they make on average over $5,000 per year less than their private sector counterparts.

GabuEx

I'm puzzled as to how public employees with a bachelor's degree, who make up by far the majority of public employees, could be considered to be receiving a "free ride" when they make on average over $5,000 per year less than their private sector counterparts.

GabuEx

Its facepalm worry the day some how linked job benefits with "entitlements".. These people pay into the system one way or the other.

[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"]35 hours a week is a pretty common misconception. Do you actually believe that teachers arrive and leave work at the same time as students? Planning, grading, meetings, workshops, inservice, my work weeks are usually anywhere from 50-55 hours a week, and because I need 60 workshop hours per year outside of contract time, I have to give up a lot of saturdays and days during my summer "vacation".UT_Wrestler

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I'm puzzled as to how public employees with a bachelor's degree, who make up by far the majority of public employees, could be considered to be receiving a "free ride" when they make on average over $5,000 per year less than their private sector counterparts.

sSubZerOo

Its facepalm worry the day some how linked job benefits with "entitlements".. These people pay into the system one way or the other.

I think part of what the Wisconsin governor trying to do is have state employees pay more for those benefits. That is most likely why some have referred to them as entitlements. I got kinfolk up that way and haven't heard of any complaints from them about the protests though.

[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

I'm puzzled as to how public employees with a bachelor's degree, who make up by far the majority of public employees, could be considered to be receiving a "free ride" when they make on average over $5,000 per year less than their private sector counterparts.

WhiteKnight77

Its facepalm worry the day some how linked job benefits with "entitlements".. These people pay into the system one way or the other.

I think part of what the Wisconsin governor trying to do is have state employees pay more for those benefits. That is most likely why some have referred to them as entitlements. I got kinfolk up that way and haven't heard of any complaints from them about the protests though.

To me its just maddening that people are trying to claim that, it seems like every one that disgrees with such thing is being labeled as a dead beat and that couldn't further from the truth.. As going for the actual protest, looking into it I would say its mainly due to the fact the governor basically wants to destroy the union rather than any pay cuts..

A lot of states give you a choice if you want to be in a union or not their called right to work states. I see no problem with paying teachers what they earn. It's called making a living wage. I'm from Michigan and I've been a member of the UAW. Henry Ford once paid his workers $5 a day. People thought he was nuts for it. It helped pull this country out of the great depresion. In turn the workers were able to buy the cars they built.

Whats going on in Wisconsin is nothing more then the Republicans tying to break the unions. They've been trying for years and it's working. In the 1950's half this country was unionized today it's 7%.

Personally I like having job security where my boss can'tfire me because he don't like the color of my shirt. Every company in this country should be union.

To me its just maddening that people are trying to claim that, it seems like every one that disgrees with such thing is being labeled as a dead beat and that couldn't further from the truth.. As going for the actual protest, looking into it I would say its mainly due to the fact the governor basically wants to destroy the union rather than any pay cuts..

sSubZerOo

Unions can be a good thing, but often, they are a pain in the neck. Most jobs I go on, there are union workers. One place has 2 separate parking areas, one union, the other non-union. I was on this one job and a union welder bragged that the elevator needed to be fixed as it was part of their contract that they didn't have to climb more than three floors worth of stairs (at boilers or other type of large vessels, 3 floors can be 60 feet up, they are not like a house or office building with standard heights between floors). They also take breaks at specific times, even if there should be a welder standing by while I am inspecting his welds, which can put me behind schedule.

[QUOTE="Guybrush_3"]

Actually what is being left out is how this is a strategic attack against leftist groups.

1. Exactly three groups were exempt. Those were the groups that supported the repubilcan governor in the race.

mattbbpl

Well, that bit of news is new to me. Which groups were exempt?

Police, firefighters and state troopers.

[QUOTE="UT_Wrestler"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Which is still more days off than most jobs to be fair....LJS9502_basic

This is double edged sword I'm afraid. The mighty corporate loving party against the demand too much unions. Let's be honest, both sides are to blame for this. A common agreement where craziness is kept under control would be ideal, but unfortunately hardly anyone in power wants to take a moderate position anymore. Maniacc1

On one side, we have the public employees, who make $5,000 less on average with a bachelor's degree than the average private employee, and who basically makes up that gap with better benefits.

On the other side, we have the Wisconsin Republicans, who basically caused this fiscal crisis by making ill-advised tax cuts, and then want to fix the problem they created by going after an entirely unrelated group of people.

...How, exactly, are both sides to blame for this?

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"]This is double edged sword I'm afraid. The mighty corporate loving party against the demand too much unions. Let's be honest, both sides are to blame for this. A common agreement where craziness is kept under control would be ideal, but unfortunately hardly anyone in power wants to take a moderate position anymore. GabuEx

On one side, we have the public employees, who make $5,000 less on average with a bachelor's degree than the average private employee, and who basically makes up that gap with better benefits.

On the other side, we have the Wisconsin Republicans, who basically caused this fiscal crisis by making ill-advised tax cuts, and then want to fix the problem they created by going after an entirely unrelated group of people.

...How, exactly, are both sides to blame for this?

Well, the question remains about exactly how much those benefits are. (furthermore, there are those w/o bachelor's degrees)

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

[QUOTE="Maniacc1"]This is double edged sword I'm afraid. The mighty corporate loving party against the demand too much unions. Let's be honest, both sides are to blame for this. A common agreement where craziness is kept under control would be ideal, but unfortunately hardly anyone in power wants to take a moderate position anymore. coolbeans90

On one side, we have the public employees, who make $5,000 less on average with a bachelor's degree than the average private employee, and who basically makes up that gap with better benefits.

On the other side, we have the Wisconsin Republicans, who basically caused this fiscal crisis by making ill-advised tax cuts, and then want to fix the problem they created by going after an entirely unrelated group of people.

...How, exactly, are both sides to blame for this?

Well, the question remains about exactly how much those benefits are. (furthermore, there are those w/o bachelor's degrees)

Quite a few of those people without bachelor's degrees are exempt even though they make more than the average person without a bachelors degree. Oddly enough those people just happen to be the people that supported republicans in the most recent race. Curious no?

I agree. Why should the private workers have to be burdened with wisconsins debt and the public workers get a free ride?

racer8dan

private sector generally makes more money, but at the risk of having to take care of benefits, etc, by themselves

state workers generally get good benefits, but at the risk of not making a lot of money

you cant have your cake and eat it too, folks, America is a nation of gains and sacrifices, pros and cons...you gotta weigh them out for yourself and see what suits you better. People making 80k a year in the private sector have no more right to complain about how they have to pay for health insurance than a state worker has a right to complain about making 35k a year.

[QUOTE="coolbeans90"]

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

On one side, we have the public employees, who make $5,000 less on average with a bachelor's degree than the average private employee, and who basically makes up that gap with better benefits.

On the other side, we have the Wisconsin Republicans, who basically caused this fiscal crisis by making ill-advised tax cuts, and then want to fix the problem they created by going after an entirely unrelated group of people.

...How, exactly, are both sides to blame for this?

Guybrush_3

Well, the question remains about exactly how much those benefits are. (furthermore, there are those w/o bachelor's degrees)

Quite a few of those people without bachelor's degrees are exempt even though they make more than the average person without a bachelors degree. Oddly enough those people just happen to be the people that supported republicans in the most recent race. Curious no?

How much is "quite a few?"

Well the wisconsin union people got paid to protest and deny children an education and what do parents do when their kids don't have school all of a sudden?

Well the wisconsin union people got paid to protest and deny children an education and what do parents do when their kids don't have school all of a sudden?

ehhwhatever

it would not be a protest worth a damn if it did not inconvenience people and draw attention

[QUOTE="ehhwhatever"]

Well the wisconsin union people got paid to protest and deny children an education and what do parents do when their kids don't have school all of a sudden?

mrbojangles25

it would not be a protest worth a damn if it did not inconvenience people and draw attention

yea it got my attention. unions deny children an education and get paid to protest and meanwhile most people are struggling to get by.

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

[QUOTE="ehhwhatever"]

Well the wisconsin union people got paid to protest and deny children an education and what do parents do when their kids don't have school all of a sudden?

ehhwhatever

it would not be a protest worth a damn if it did not inconvenience people and draw attention

yea it got my attention. unions deny children an education and get paid to protest and meanwhile most people are struggling to get by.

Well as we all know, teachers are the most overpaid profession in the world, and no teacher would ever understand what it was like not to make enough money. :P

(/sarcasm, in case it isn't obvious)

These continued attacks upon unions are dusturbing...

[QUOTE="ehhwhatever"]

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

it would not be a protest worth a damn if it did not inconvenience people and draw attention

GabuEx

yea it got my attention. unions deny children an education and get paid to protest and meanwhile most people are struggling to get by.

Well as we all know, teachers are the most overpaid profession in the world, and no teacher would ever understand what it was like not to make enough money. :P

(/sarcasm, in case it isn't obvious)

wait, wtf are you talk---

oh...sarcasm. haha. I think I get it.

Yeah.

And...And FIREMEN are the most underpaid! They work so much...sitting around, eating meals off the tax payers money...they deserve MORE MONEY! rabble rabble rabble

:P

did i do it right?

These continued attacks upon unions are dusturbing...

htekemerald

why, those communist SOBs need to get the hellllll outta my country and back to China or Soviet Russia...