Worst US President?

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Head_of_games

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#101 Head_of_games
Member since 2007 • 10859 Posts

Logan

/thread.

:P

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danwallacefan

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#102 danwallacefan
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] So you would rather of had the south win?

-Sun_Tzu-

yes

So how exactly do you reconcile that with your opposition to tyranny? Thanks to what was a strong abolitionist movement in the north, when the North won the war, slavery was once and for all abolished. Had the outcome been different and the South had won, about four million people would have still been in chains, with absolutely no freedom to speak of. That's the equivalent of roughly 39 million people being enslaved today in proportion to the current population. That's what the south was primarily fighting for - to guarantee that those in chains stay in chains. For all their talk about "state rights", that didn't stop the drafters of the Confederate federalconstitution from making it unconstitutional for any individual Confederate states to abolish slavery.

but you dont think it would have went away soon after? Slavery WAS more expensive than freedom and was sustained by the government.

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Flanker15

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#103 Flanker15
Member since 2004 • 1526 Posts

[QUOTE="Flanker15"]

Reagan, I've settled on Reagan now.

mohfrontline

what is wrong with Reagan? He challenged the Soviets and it worked. I don't see how that's a failure

Reaganmoics, Turning the Republican party into the mockery it is today, Taking credit for things he had little part in (like the end of the Cold War), Bringing Al qaeda and many other extremist groupes around the world to power. Just for starters.

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cousin_eddy

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#104 cousin_eddy
Member since 2004 • 74681 Posts
Reagan, no contest.
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EMOEVOLUTION

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#105 EMOEVOLUTION
Member since 2008 • 8998 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"] yes

danwallacefan

So how exactly do you reconcile that with your opposition to tyranny? Thanks to what was a strong abolitionist movement in the north, when the North won the war, slavery was once and for all abolished. Had the outcome been different and the South had won, about four million people would have still been in chains, with absolutely no freedom to speak of. That's the equivalent of roughly 39 million people being enslaved today in proportion to the current population. That's what the south was primarily fighting for - to guarantee that those in chains stay in chains. For all their talk about "state rights", that didn't stop the drafters of the Confederate federalconstitution from making it unconstitutional for any individual Confederate states to abolish slavery.

but you dont think it would have went away soon after? Slavery WAS more expensive than freedom and was sustained by the government.

Slavery was more expensive than freedom? Are you serious? Who wouldn't want to not have to pay their work force? All they had to do is provide food to make sure they wouldnt die.. that's much more cheaper than having to pay them wages so they could support themselves.
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GettingTired

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#106 GettingTired
Member since 2006 • 5994 Posts

[QUOTE="mohfrontline"][QUOTE="Flanker15"]

Reagan, I've settled on Reagan now.

Flanker15

what is wrong with Reagan? He challenged the Soviets and it worked. I don't see how that's a failure

Reaganmoics, Turning the Republican party into the mockery it is today, Taking credit for things he had little part in (like the end of the Cold War), Bringing Al qaeda and many other extremist groupes around the world to power. Just for starters.

And let's not forget the drug war which has decimated impoverished urban cities, and soared the US prison population to that of one greater than any other country. How Republicans look up to him, and are so strongly supportive of fighting the "terrorists" is just a big facepalm.
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The_AI

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#107 The_AI
Member since 2006 • 4791 Posts

Hoover, Carter, Johnson, and Buchanan. Bush has nothing on these guys.

Though I'm starting to become VERY disillusioned with Obama. I'm wondering if he'll be remembered as one of the worst.

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Mercury_May2112

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#108 Mercury_May2112
Member since 2007 • 2507 Posts

Since I'm Canadian... I'm going to say Brian Mulroney.

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#109 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"] yes

danwallacefan

So how exactly do you reconcile that with your opposition to tyranny? Thanks to what was a strong abolitionist movement in the north, when the North won the war, slavery was once and for all abolished. Had the outcome been different and the South had won, about four million people would have still been in chains, with absolutely no freedom to speak of. That's the equivalent of roughly 39 million people being enslaved today in proportion to the current population. That's what the south was primarily fighting for - to guarantee that those in chains stay in chains. For all their talk about "state rights", that didn't stop the drafters of the Confederate federalconstitution from making it unconstitutional for any individual Confederate states to abolish slavery.

but you dont think it would have went away soon after? Slavery WAS more expensive than freedom and was sustained by the government.

No I don't.

Now, I don't consider the Civil War as one of the most necessary of wars, and if it wasn't fought I still think that slavery would have soon been abolished. After all, the U.S. was really the only country to fight a war in order to abolish slavery. Countries like England didn't have to fight a gruesome, bloody war to abolish slavery.

But considering the sheer amount of human life lost because of the Civil War, especially in the South, I don't think that after winning the war the South would just free their slaves, considering how much they sacrificed to keep them enslaved, and how much they convinced themselves and propagated the idea that slavery was a natural thing.

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danwallacefan

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#111 danwallacefan
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] So how exactly do you reconcile that with your opposition to tyranny? Thanks to what was a strong abolitionist movement in the north, when the North won the war, slavery was once and for all abolished. Had the outcome been different and the South had won, about four million people would have still been in chains, with absolutely no freedom to speak of. That's the equivalent of roughly 39 million people being enslaved today in proportion to the current population. That's what the south was primarily fighting for - to guarantee that those in chains stay in chains. For all their talk about "state rights", that didn't stop the drafters of the Confederate federalconstitution from making it unconstitutional for any individual Confederate states to abolish slavery.

EMOEVOLUTION

but you dont think it would have went away soon after? Slavery WAS more expensive than freedom and was sustained by the government.

Slavery was more expensive than freedom? Are you serious? Who wouldn't want to not have to pay their work force? All they had to do is provide food to make sure they wouldnt die.. that's much more cheaper than having to pay them wages so they could support themselves.

Slave masters had to feed them, house them (basically pay for all their living expenses) and they had to track them down if they ran away (which is why there was that whole fugitive slave act)

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Snipes_2

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#112 Snipes_2
Member since 2009 • 17126 Posts

if someone says bush I'll punch them in the mouth for being an ignoramus

Willistron

A Few People already said Bush. :P

They didn't specify which one though.

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rawsavon

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#113 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts
William Henry Harrison...the ninth President -only served 30 days in office before death -so literally accomplished nothing [spoiler] or does that make him the best/least destructive :o [/spoiler]
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ragek1ll589

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#114 ragek1ll589
Member since 2007 • 8650 Posts

James Buchanon or Franklin Pierce.

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hodges_3_5

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#115 hodges_3_5
Member since 2008 • 351 Posts

Obama.

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pyramidsonmars

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#116 pyramidsonmars
Member since 2009 • 67 Posts
Jimmy Carter.

if someone says bush I'll punch them in the mouth for being an ignoramus

Willistron
Will you now?
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rawsavon

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#117 rawsavon
Member since 2004 • 40001 Posts

if someone says bush I'll punch them in the mouth for being an ignoramus

Willistron
I will say Bush just to see you try and punch me :o
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#118 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
Could someone explain how Jimmy Carter was the worst president in the history of the United States. He wasn't anything special, but what exactly did he do that was so much worse than every other single president.
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Xx_Hopeless_xX

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#119 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] So you would rather of had the south win?

-Sun_Tzu-

yes

So how exactly do you reconcile that with your opposition to tyranny? Thanks to what was a strong abolitionist movement in the north, when the North won the war, slavery was once and for all abolished. Had the outcome been different and the South had won, about four million people would have still been in chains, with absolutely no freedom to speak of. That's the equivalent of roughly 39 million people being enslaved today in proportion to the current population. That's what the south was primarily fighting for - to guarantee that those in chains stay in chains. For all their talk about "state rights", that didn't stop the drafters of the Confederate federalconstitution from making it unconstitutional for any individual Confederate states to abolish slavery.

It is a fact that when the armies for the North and South were first formed, only a small minority of the soldiers on either side would have declared that the reason they joined the army was to fight either "for" or "against" slavery.Most Southerners were small farmers that could not afford slaves. Most Northerners were small farmers or tradesmen that had never evenseena slave.

That basically makes your argument about the Southerners owning slaves null..

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deactivated-5b31d3729c1fa

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#121 deactivated-5b31d3729c1fa
Member since 2007 • 11536 Posts

probably andrew johnson

but obama isnt doing too well either

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danwallacefan

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#122 danwallacefan
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts
Could someone explain how Jimmy Carter was the worst president in the history of the United States. He wasn't anything special, but what exactly did he do that was so much worse than every other single president.-Sun_Tzu-
I guess it was mainly because of his handling of the Iranian hostage crisis, that and his unwavering pessimism.
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mephie25

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#123 mephie25
Member since 2009 • 129 Posts
Definitely Obama. Never liked him. Makes me want to puke.
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#124 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"] yes

Xx_Hopeless_xX

So how exactly do you reconcile that with your opposition to tyranny? Thanks to what was a strong abolitionist movement in the north, when the North won the war, slavery was once and for all abolished. Had the outcome been different and the South had won, about four million people would have still been in chains, with absolutely no freedom to speak of. That's the equivalent of roughly 39 million people being enslaved today in proportion to the current population. That's what the south was primarily fighting for - to guarantee that those in chains stay in chains. For all their talk about "state rights", that didn't stop the drafters of the Confederate federalconstitution from making it unconstitutional for any individual Confederate states to abolish slavery.

It is a fact that when the armies for the North and South were first formed, only a small minority of the soldiers on either side would have declared that the reason they joined the army was to fight either "for" or "against" slavery.Most Southerners were small farmers that could not afford slaves. Most Northerners were small farmers or tradesmen that had never evenseena slave.

That basically makes your argument about the Southerners owning slaves null..

Um, no it doesn't. Yes, slave owners were a minority, but they were a very wealthy minority and many, especially in the deep south, where slaves consisted for about half the population, wielded a great deal of political power. When you look at most conventional wars throughout history, they are triggered primarily by the interests of a very influential and well off minority, as was the case in the Civil War, which was triggered by very, very, wealthy slave/plantation owners.
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HoolaHoopMan

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#125 HoolaHoopMan
Member since 2009 • 14724 Posts
Definitely Obama. Never liked him. Makes me want to puke.mephie25
So he's the worst because he makes you want to puke? Interesting. Personally I'd say James Buchanon, don't think I really need to elaborate as others have. In recent memory, George W. Bush is easily the worst.
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mephie25

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#126 mephie25
Member since 2009 • 129 Posts

[QUOTE="mephie25"]Definitely Obama. Never liked him. Makes me want to puke.HoolaHoopMan
So he's the worst because he makes you want to puke? Interesting. Personally I'd say James Buchanon, don't think I really need to elaborate as others have. In recent memory, George W. Bush is easily the worst.



Yes

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#127 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"]Could someone explain how Jimmy Carter was the worst president in the history of the United States. He wasn't anything special, but what exactly did he do that was so much worse than every other single president.danwallacefan
I guess it was mainly because of his handling of the Iranian hostage crisis, that and his unwavering pessimism.

If the Iranian hostage crisis is one of the primary reasons why Carter is being cited in this thread, then wouldn't Reagan be worse, due to Iran-Contra? However, something tells me that many of those who are citing Carter have a very favorable opinion of Reagan.
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Saturos3091

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#128 Saturos3091
Member since 2005 • 14937 Posts

Buchanan and Carter come to mind first. Carter was a bumbling idiot who actually thought economic sanctions were an effective tactic when negotiating with opposing powers. Not to mention the inflation during his presidency was laughably high. He paved the way for the Reagan years.

Andrew Jackson for killing my people too. :x

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Xx_Hopeless_xX

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#129 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] So how exactly do you reconcile that with your opposition to tyranny? Thanks to what was a strong abolitionist movement in the north, when the North won the war, slavery was once and for all abolished. Had the outcome been different and the South had won, about four million people would have still been in chains, with absolutely no freedom to speak of. That's the equivalent of roughly 39 million people being enslaved today in proportion to the current population. That's what the south was primarily fighting for - to guarantee that those in chains stay in chains. For all their talk about "state rights", that didn't stop the drafters of the Confederate federalconstitution from making it unconstitutional for any individual Confederate states to abolish slavery.

-Sun_Tzu-

It is a fact that when the armies for the North and South were first formed, only a small minority of the soldiers on either side would have declared that the reason they joined the army was to fight either "for" or "against" slavery.Most Southerners were small farmers that could not afford slaves. Most Northerners were small farmers or tradesmen that had never evenseena slave.

That basically makes your argument about the Southerners owning slaves null..

Um, no it doesn't. Yes, slave owners were a minority, but they were a very wealthy minority and many, especially in the deep south, where slaves consisted for about half the population, wielded a great deal of political power. When you look at most conventional wars throughout history, they are triggered primarily by the interests of a very influential and well off minority, as was the case in the Civil War, which was triggered by very, very, wealthy slave/plantation owners.

A very small minority...

The South had an economic interest in the spread of slavery to the new territories so that new slave states could be created and the South's political influence would remain strong. The North had an interest in limiting the spread of slavery into the new territories for both purposes of controlling Southern political power AND support of the moral issue.

Although the majority of the American people-- including many moderate politicians like Abraham Lincoln--wanted to avoid Civil War and were content to allow slavery to die a slow, inevitable death..

Southern politicians convinced their majority that the North was threatening their way of life and their culture. Northern politicians convinced their majority that the South, if allowed to secede, was really striking a serious blow at democratic government. In these arguments, both southern and northern politicians were speaking the truth--but not "the whole truth." They knew that to declare the war to be a fight over slavery would cause a lot of the potential soldiers of both sides to refuse to fight.

It was less about morals...

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duxup

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#130 duxup
Member since 2002 • 43443 Posts

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] So how exactly do you reconcile that with your opposition to tyranny? Thanks to what was a strong abolitionist movement in the north, when the North won the war, slavery was once and for all abolished. Had the outcome been different and the South had won, about four million people would have still been in chains, with absolutely no freedom to speak of. That's the equivalent of roughly 39 million people being enslaved today in proportion to the current population. That's what the south was primarily fighting for - to guarantee that those in chains stay in chains. For all their talk about "state rights", that didn't stop the drafters of the Confederate federalconstitution from making it unconstitutional for any individual Confederate states to abolish slavery.

-Sun_Tzu-

but you dont think it would have went away soon after? Slavery WAS more expensive than freedom and was sustained by the government.

No I don't.

Now, I don't consider the Civil War as one of the most necessary of wars, and if it wasn't fought I still think that slavery would have soon been abolished. After all, the U.S. was really the only country to fight a war in order to abolish slavery. Countries like England didn't have to fight a gruesome, bloody war to abolish slavery.

But considering the sheer amount of human life lost because of the Civil War, especially in the South, I don't think that after winning the war the South would just free their slaves, considering how much they sacrificed to keep them enslaved, and how much they convinced themselves and propagated the idea that slavery was a natural thing.

I'm still baffled by how Lincoln gets blamed for the Civil War? How short are we on history here?

Slavery was considered a serious problem that could fracture the states from the day the United States was formed... and nobody solved the problem but the dude in office when the south fired the first shot gets blamed... WT :o

Dude should get credit that after the war he pushed for reconstruction in the face of calls to punish the South, a big step in bringing the nation back together in a sustainable manner.

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x8VXU6

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#131 x8VXU6
Member since 2008 • 3411 Posts

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"] please! slavery would have gone away sooner or later in the South. The Civil war wasn't just over slavery, it was over the whole issue of States' rights

danwallacefan

9 times out of 10 it would have been BUT I wouldnt have civil rites at this point, we just got our civil rites a little over 40 years ago

civil rights, you mean anti-discrimination laws?

look at it this way, I cant go into a store cuz Im black but u can cuz u white, I guess that doesnt falls under civil rites huh?

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Xx_Hopeless_xX

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#132 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]9 times out of 10 it would have been BUT I wouldnt have civil rites at this point, we just got our civil rites a little over 40 years ago

x8VXU6

civil rights, you mean anti-discrimination laws?

look at it this way, I cant go into a store cuz Im black but u can cuz u white, I guess that doesnt falls under civil rites huh?

Are we dealing in modern times?..if so...no offense but thats lol worthy..

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Bobzfamily

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#133 Bobzfamily
Member since 2008 • 1514 Posts

I'd also throw in John Tyler. He vetoed the entire Whig agenda much to the chagrin of congressional Whigs including the vetoing of Clay's legislation for a national banking act following the panic of 1837. Shortly after he took office he was officially expelled from the Whig party. The president of the time was kicked out of his own party. The House of Representatives was considering impeaching him after he vetoed a tariff bill and I read somewhere that a committe later on concluded he misused the veto.

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duxup

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#134 duxup
Member since 2002 • 43443 Posts

I'd also throw in John Tyler. He vetoed the entire Whig agenda much to the chagrin of congressional Whigs including the vetoing of Clay's legislation for a national banking act following the panic of 1837. Shortly after he took office he was officially expelled from the Whig party. The president of the time was kicked out of his own party. The House of Representatives was considering impeaching him after he vetoed a tariff bill and I read somewhere that a committe later on concluded he misused the veto.

Bobzfamily
These days getting thrown out of either party might not necessary indicate a bad thing ;)
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#135 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

It is a fact that when the armies for the North and South were first formed, only a small minority of the soldiers on either side would have declared that the reason they joined the army was to fight either "for" or "against" slavery.Most Southerners were small farmers that could not afford slaves. Most Northerners were small farmers or tradesmen that had never evenseena slave.

That basically makes your argument about the Southerners owning slaves null..

Xx_Hopeless_xX

Um, no it doesn't. Yes, slave owners were a minority, but they were a very wealthy minority and many, especially in the deep south, where slaves consisted for about half the population, wielded a great deal of political power. When you look at most conventional wars throughout history, they are triggered primarily by the interests of a very influential and well off minority, as was the case in the Civil War, which was triggered by very, very, wealthy slave/plantation owners.

A very small minority...

The South had an economic interest in the spread of slavery to the new territories so that new slave states could be created and the South's political influence would remain strong. The North had an interest in limiting the spread of slavery into the new territories for both purposes of controlling Southern political power AND support of the moral issue.

Although the majority of the American people-- including many moderate politicians like Abraham Lincoln--wanted to avoid Civil War and were content to allow slavery to die a slow, inevitable death..

Southern politicians convinced their majority that the North was threatening their way of life and their culture. Northern politicians convinced their majority that the South, if allowed to secede, was really striking a serious blow at democratic government. In these arguments, both southern and northern politicians were speaking the truth--but not "the whole truth." They knew that to declare the war to be a fight over slavery would cause a lot of the potential soldiers of both sides to refuse to fight.

It was less about morals...

So are you agreeing with me?
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Xx_Hopeless_xX

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#136 Xx_Hopeless_xX
Member since 2009 • 16562 Posts

[QUOTE="Xx_Hopeless_xX"]

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] Um, no it doesn't. Yes, slave owners were a minority, but they were a very wealthy minority and many, especially in the deep south, where slaves consisted for about half the population, wielded a great deal of political power. When you look at most conventional wars throughout history, they are triggered primarily by the interests of a very influential and well off minority, as was the case in the Civil War, which was triggered by very, very, wealthy slave/plantation owners. -Sun_Tzu-

A very small minority...

The South had an economic interest in the spread of slavery to the new territories so that new slave states could be created and the South's political influence would remain strong. The North had an interest in limiting the spread of slavery into the new territories for both purposes of controlling Southern political power AND support of the moral issue.

Although the majority of the American people-- including many moderate politicians like Abraham Lincoln--wanted to avoid Civil War and were content to allow slavery to die a slow, inevitable death..

Southern politicians convinced their majority that the North was threatening their way of life and their culture. Northern politicians convinced their majority that the South, if allowed to secede, was really striking a serious blow at democratic government. In these arguments, both southern and northern politicians were speaking the truth--but not "the whole truth." They knew that to declare the war to be a fight over slavery would cause a lot of the potential soldiers of both sides to refuse to fight.

It was less about morals...

So are you agreeing with me?

I don't know...i haven't gotten enough sleep..brain isn't functioning...

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iamzeroxx

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#137 iamzeroxx
Member since 2005 • 306 Posts

Reagan :Psmc91352

Yeah I do have to agree, from an economic point of view Reagen was bad. This guy thought he could keep taxes low but spend money like crazy. This massive debt we're in currently all began with this man.

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#138 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

I don't know...i haven't gotten enough sleep..brain isn't functioning...

Xx_Hopeless_xX
Oh don't worry, I know that feeling :P
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deactivated-58b6232955e4a

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#140 deactivated-58b6232955e4a
Member since 2006 • 15594 Posts

Bush, cuz did you ever hear that guy talk?!?! It was like, sooooo stupid, and he declared the war and killed billions of people.

Theokhoth
>Killed billions of people
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danwallacefan

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#141 danwallacefan
Member since 2008 • 2413 Posts

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"]

[QUOTE="x8VXU6"]9 times out of 10 it would have been BUT I wouldnt have civil rites at this point, we just got our civil rites a little over 40 years ago

x8VXU6

civil rights, you mean anti-discrimination laws?

look at it this way, I cant go into a store cuz Im black but u can cuz u white, I guess that doesnt falls under civil rites huh?

well, granted, its undesirable, but what gives you the right to say that storeowners MUST service those who they would rather not?

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T_P_O

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#142 T_P_O
Member since 2008 • 5388 Posts

It's a tie between Lyndon Johnson and Jimmy Carter, no doubt. There is literally nothing positive to say about either administration. Oh yeah, and those citing George W. Bush, I implore you to get an education, thanks.

MarcusAntonius

The Johnson administration doesn't seem to be anywhere near the worst to me. You have the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, Medicare and Medicaid, great society, "war on poverty". Granted you're going to disagree with that, and probably throw in Vietnam, but to call him the worst president is really a stretch.

Also, you don't have to act so arrogantly, there are other users who like civility when discussions arise.

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drumbreak1

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#143 drumbreak1
Member since 2008 • 1316 Posts

[QUOTE="Anti-Venom"]Obama...lies too muchheysharpshooter

news flash, but every president has lied to you. A lot.

Not to the extent that Obama does, but that also isn't helped by the robert gibbs the most pathetic excuse for a press secretary i've ever seen

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Stevo_the_gamer

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#144 Stevo_the_gamer  Moderator
Member since 2004 • 50155 Posts

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

[QUOTE="Anti-Venom"]Obama...lies too muchdrumbreak1

news flash, but every president has lied to you. A lot.

Not to the extent that Obama does, but that also isn't helped by the robert gibbs the most pathetic excuse for a press secretary i've ever seen

Hey, that guy gives me a good laugh every time he talks. :lol:
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duxup

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#146 duxup
Member since 2002 • 43443 Posts

[QUOTE="heysharpshooter"]

[QUOTE="Anti-Venom"]Obama...lies too muchdrumbreak1

news flash, but every president has lied to you. A lot.

Not to the extent that Obama does, but that also isn't helped by the robert gibbs the most pathetic excuse for a press secretary i've ever seen

What are you expecting from a press secretary? :P

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sh4d0wc4st3r

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#147 sh4d0wc4st3r
Member since 2005 • 3623 Posts
Obama, hasn't done anything yet.
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duxter1

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#148 duxter1
Member since 2008 • 409 Posts

I am not a Jimmy Carter fan, good intentions though

JFK is the most overrated imo (Bay of Pigs)

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chessmaster1989

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#149 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts

[QUOTE="Theokhoth"]

[QUOTE="danwallacefan"] which would have been better. We dont need some strong central government.

danwallacefan

:lol:

The Articles of Confederation Era begs to differ. The US nearly tore itself apart, and we only had thirteen states then! :lol:

which, once again, would have been preferable to today. Small states are the best way to preserve liberty.

You know, there's a good reason why the United States scrapped the Articles of Confederation. You have taken an American history course, right? :?

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GodofBigMacs

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#150 GodofBigMacs
Member since 2008 • 6440 Posts

Definitely Buchanan... pretty lousy job by him.