Would America be better off as a communist nation? REPLY

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Former_Slacker

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#51 Former_Slacker
Member since 2009 • 2618 Posts

[QUOTE="SpartanMSU"]

[QUOTE="cd_rom"]

Socialism =/= Communism.

For that matter, Nazi's were not socialist.

ChaoticThief

Actually, the kind of were. They had many things run by the state, including socialized healthcare. The Nazis didn't create fascism and weren't real fascists. The Nazis and Communist were fighting for the same people, the "working class".

Plus, Nazi Germany was about to rise back up to a decent status. Then they lost Berlin. Like I said, this is just an opinion poll.

No, to both of those. The Nazi's were reactionaries, part of the right wing fringe. They were certainly fascists. The only reason they included socialist in their name was to fool the common working person into voting for them.

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pspdseagle

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#52 pspdseagle
Member since 2007 • 3307 Posts
Troll can troll.
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LJS9502_basic

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#53 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180203 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] The individual bears a varying degree of responsibility (depending on the individual of course), but you'd be kidding yourself if you think that a meritocracy can emerge from a society where there isn't any sort of welfare state or safety net. There are very real structural reasons for why individuals are poor.

There's a difference between a temporary help until one gets on one's feet...and continued handouts. And you are promoting increasing what we already have. What happens to a country when the wealthy tax base is tapped out paying for all these welfare programs for the poor....and increasing these programs will bring about the demise of the middle cIass. It's better to fix problems BUT have individuals responsible for their own livelihood....which IS the adult way to live. Note; Obviously the disabled are a different matter altogether.

I am not promoting continued handouts, nor am I promoting increasing what we already have. I don't like the way the welfare state is structured in the U.S. But it's been demonstrated time and time again that poverty rates go down significantly when the federal government spends money on programs that alleviate the suffering of the poor.

Odd....we have not lost poverty since welfare programs were instituted.
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NiteLights

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#54 NiteLights
Member since 2010 • 1181 Posts

[QUOTE="ChaoticThief"]Communist governments always do good.cd_rom
What? I think this statement alone proves that you're trolling.

Troll spray

I came prepared. ;)

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SaintJimmmy

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#55 SaintJimmmy
Member since 2007 • 2815 Posts
Maybe im not sure, but, i can name countless communists governments that have failed they don't always do good
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buldog300

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#56 buldog300
Member since 2003 • 2152 Posts
First off, no communist countries don't do well. About 90% of the ones that have been tried in our world have turned to dictatorships, and the other 10% were inept bureaucracies that failed. Communism robs people of incentive, why should I work or go to school when I'll be paid as much as if I didn't? I don't want the government to take care of me; I want it to protect my liberties and mind its own business. The only real classless system is an anarchy one, and we all know how those end.
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-Sun_Tzu-

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#57 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"] There's a difference between a temporary help until one gets on one's feet...and continued handouts. And you are promoting increasing what we already have. What happens to a country when the wealthy tax base is tapped out paying for all these welfare programs for the poor....and increasing these programs will bring about the demise of the middle cIass. It's better to fix problems BUT have individuals responsible for their own livelihood....which IS the adult way to live. Note; Obviously the disabled are a different matter altogether.

I am not promoting continued handouts, nor am I promoting increasing what we already have. I don't like the way the welfare state is structured in the U.S. But it's been demonstrated time and time again that poverty rates go down significantly when the federal government spends money on programs that alleviate the suffering of the poor.

Odd....we have not lost poverty since welfare programs were instituted.

What do you mean by "losing poverty"? If you mean the total disappearance of poverty then yes you are right and I've conceded that point by wanting to expand the welfare state. If you mean a significant drop in poverty then you are demonstrably wrong.
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DigitalExile

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#58 DigitalExile
Member since 2008 • 16046 Posts

Eh, America has issues because of the people in it running things. You just need to look at it as an outsider to identify things that are wrong. The way the people in the government act, so called policitcal analysts - or whoever those jack asses on the radio are. I'm Australian and I'm sure we have those guys here but in America - again as an outsider - I just see so much that "wrong" with the mentalty of the people.

I'm not sure if I've worded this, and I hope some non-Americans can back me up, but there's just a national and historical mentality that comes from America that causes these issues. I don't think the system of Government needs to change, just the national mentality needs to wise up a bit. America doesn't have the best system, you don't have anymore freedoms than any other free nation and quite frankly I wouldn't want to live there. I'm sure most of you are fine people but the mentality of it all this stupid pretese of liberty and freedom is just BS when I think about my lifestyle and the national mentality here in Australia.

Anyway that's my thoughts. If it was coherent than I hope someone agrees. o.O

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LJS9502_basic

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#59 LJS9502_basic  Online
Member since 2003 • 180203 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"][QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"] I am not promoting continued handouts, nor am I promoting increasing what we already have. I don't like the way the welfare state is structured in the U.S. But it's been demonstrated time and time again that poverty rates go down significantly when the federal government spends money on programs that alleviate the suffering of the poor.

Odd....we have not lost poverty since welfare programs were instituted.

What do you mean by "losing poverty"? If you mean the total disappearance of poverty then yes you are right and I've conceded that point by wanting to expand the welfare state. If you mean a significant drop in poverty then you are demonstrably wrong.

Hand outs don't remove poverty...if anything they make the poor dependent on the government.
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mattbbpl

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#60 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23355 Posts
[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Odd....we have not lost poverty since welfare programs were instituted.LJS9502_basic
What do you mean by "losing poverty"? If you mean the total disappearance of poverty then yes you are right and I've conceded that point by wanting to expand the welfare state. If you mean a significant drop in poverty then you are demonstrably wrong.

Hand outs don't remove poverty...if anything they make the poor dependent on the government.

Temporary ones can be both necessary and beneficial. Temporary unemployment benefits, for instance, can keep people afloat and in housing while finding another job.
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deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51

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#61 deactivated-5f9e3c6a83e51
Member since 2004 • 57548 Posts

"Communist governments always do good". Really? Because they seem to quickly detoriate into oligarchy.

As for the US, we'd never be good as a communist nation. Our entire nation's creed is about freedom and individual rights. That doesn't jibe well with a government that believes more in social rules and practices in lieu of individual rights and freedoms. For better or worse, we've always been a nation that prides itself on individual accomplishments and achievements.

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-Sun_Tzu-

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#62 -Sun_Tzu-
Member since 2007 • 17384 Posts

[QUOTE="-Sun_Tzu-"][QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]Odd....we have not lost poverty since welfare programs were instituted.LJS9502_basic
What do you mean by "losing poverty"? If you mean the total disappearance of poverty then yes you are right and I've conceded that point by wanting to expand the welfare state. If you mean a significant drop in poverty then you are demonstrably wrong.

Hand outs don't remove poverty...if anything they make the poor dependent on the government.

And the facts aren't congruent with that statement. All you have to do is quickly compare the standard of living of seniors before the implementation of social security and after to see the difference the government can make. According to the latest Census data, social security is keeping around 20 million Americans out of poverty.

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mattbbpl

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#63 mattbbpl
Member since 2006 • 23355 Posts

Eh, America has issues because of the people in it running things. You just need to look at it as an outsider to identify things that are wrong. The way the people in the government act, so called policitcal analysts - or whoever those jack asses on the radio are. I'm Australian and I'm sure we have those guys here but in America - again as an outsider - I just see so much that "wrong" with the mentalty of the people.

I'm not sure if I've worded this, and I hope some non-Americans can back me up, but there's just a national and historical mentality that comes from America that causes these issues. I don't think the system of Government needs to change, just the national mentality needs to wise up a bit. America doesn't have the best system, you don't have anymore freedoms than any other free nation and quite frankly I wouldn't want to live there. I'm sure most of you are fine people but the mentality of it all this stupid pretese of liberty and freedom is just BS when I think about my lifestyle and the national mentality here in Australia.

Anyway that's my thoughts. If it was coherent than I hope someone agrees. o.O

DigitalExile
I don't really agree with the sentiment that pretenses of freedom and liberty are a big issue (particularly considering that those pretenses are regularly ignored on specific issues like homosexual marriage). I would agree that the whole Tea Party mentality is destructive though. Laissez-faire capitalism isn't something I want to progress towards.
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Theokhoth

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#64 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts
Communism would be great if it could actually be achieved; however, for this to be possible requires a hell of a lot of sacrifice during the revolution stage and people in general, let alone Americans, are not willing to make such sacrifices.
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chessmaster1989

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#65 chessmaster1989
Member since 2008 • 30203 Posts
No. Definitely not.
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yabbicoke

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#66 yabbicoke
Member since 2007 • 4069 Posts
Hail Comrade Obama!
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Former_Slacker

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#67 Former_Slacker
Member since 2009 • 2618 Posts

[QUOTE="DigitalExile"]

Eh, America has issues because of the people in it running things. You just need to look at it as an outsider to identify things that are wrong. The way the people in the government act, so called policitcal analysts - or whoever those jack asses on the radio are. I'm Australian and I'm sure we have those guys here but in America - again as an outsider - I just see so much that "wrong" with the mentalty of the people.

I'm not sure if I've worded this, and I hope some non-Americans can back me up, but there's just a national and historical mentality that comes from America that causes these issues. I don't think the system of Government needs to change, just the national mentality needs to wise up a bit. America doesn't have the best system, you don't have anymore freedoms than any other free nation and quite frankly I wouldn't want to live there. I'm sure most of you are fine people but the mentality of it all this stupid pretese of liberty and freedom is just BS when I think about my lifestyle and the national mentality here in Australia.

Anyway that's my thoughts. If it was coherent than I hope someone agrees. o.O

mattbbpl

I don't really agree with the sentiment that pretenses of freedom and liberty are a big issue (particularly considering that those pretenses are regularly ignored on specific issues like homosexual marriage). I would agree that the whole Tea Party mentality is destructive though. Laissez-faire capitalism isn't something I want to progress towards.

Why not? Who doesn't love mass suffering and extreme wealth disparity? :P

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Former_Slacker

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#68 Former_Slacker
Member since 2009 • 2618 Posts

Hail Comrade Obama! yabbicoke

SHHHH! It's not time yet, wait until 2012. Don't blow our cover. :evil:

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Theokhoth

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#69 Theokhoth
Member since 2008 • 36799 Posts
Hail Comrade Obama! yabbicoke
 ?
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#70 Meinhard1
Member since 2010 • 6790 Posts

On paper, Communism works well. In execution, not so much.

Legendaryscmt
Pretty much this.