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... In a regulated match.. Probably this guy.. He seems to wiegh upwards to 190lbs to 200lbs.. Bruce Lee highest weight was 160lbs.... He would be at a severe disadvantage in a regulated match. sSubZerOoHe weighs 255 pounds, and he's 6'5" tall. In a regulated match or a street fight, Bruce would lose to this bigger, stronger, and more skilled opponent.
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]... In a regulated match.. Probably this guy.. He seems to wiegh upwards to 190lbs to 200lbs.. Bruce Lee highest weight was 160lbs.... He would be at a severe disadvantage in a regulated match. BMD004He weighs 255 pounds, and he's 6'5" tall. In a regulated match or a street fight, Bruce would lose to this bigger, stronger, and more skilled opponent.
Street Fight I am not so sure.. Seeing as Bruce Lee actually fought them.. And a single crack of the knee regardless of how large the opponent can bring them down.. In less this guy actually fought street fights.. I wouldn't be too sure..
He weighs 255 pounds, and he's 6'5" tall. In a regulated match or a street fight, Bruce would lose to this bigger, stronger, and more skilled opponent.[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]... In a regulated match.. Probably this guy.. He seems to wiegh upwards to 190lbs to 200lbs.. Bruce Lee highest weight was 160lbs.... He would be at a severe disadvantage in a regulated match. sSubZerOo
Street Fight I am not so sure.. Seeing as Bruce Lee actually fought them.. And a single crack of the knee regardless of how large the opponent can bring them down.. In less this guy actually fought street fights.. I wouldn't be too sure..
Does the big scar on his face say anything to you? Anyway, what would a "crack of the knee" mean? You're acting like you can't do that in an MMA fight. You can. It's just that it's not nearly as effective as you make it out to be.
And what is so special about street fights? Explain this to me.
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]
[QUOTE="BMD004"] He weighs 255 pounds, and he's 6'5" tall. In a regulated match or a street fight, Bruce would lose to this bigger, stronger, and more skilled opponent.BMD004
Street Fight I am not so sure.. Seeing as Bruce Lee actually fought them.. And a single crack of the knee regardless of how large the opponent can bring them down.. In less this guy actually fought street fights.. I wouldn't be too sure..
Does the big scar on his face say anything to you? Anyway, what would a "crack of the knee" mean? You're acting like you can't do that in an MMA fight. You can. It's just that it's not nearly as effective as you make it out to be.
And what is so special about street fights? Explain this to me.
:| MMA is a regulated sport.. You can not use your elbows or certain types of blows.. Believe it or not MMA is not the god all of sports.. It is a regulated sport and they train that way.. If the guy did do street fights then he would mos tlikley win.. Not because he is more skilled or faster then Lee was.. But the fact he is so much larger and stronger then him.. And please point to me where stomping on the leg joint, gouging out eyes.. And other things are allowed? Or other such things? They are not.. Hence the difference between regulated and unregulated fighting.
[QUOTE="BMD004"]
[QUOTE="sSubZerOo"]
Street Fight I am not so sure.. Seeing as Bruce Lee actually fought them.. And a single crack of the knee regardless of how large the opponent can bring them down.. In less this guy actually fought street fights.. I wouldn't be too sure..
sSubZerOo
Does the big scar on his face say anything to you? Anyway, what would a "crack of the knee" mean? You're acting like you can't do that in an MMA fight. You can. It's just that it's not nearly as effective as you make it out to be.
And what is so special about street fights? Explain this to me.
:| MMA is a regulated sport.. You can not use your elbows or certain types of blows.. Believe it or not MMA is not the god all of sports.. It is a regulated sport and they train that way.. If the guy did do street fights then he would mos tlikley win.. Not because he is more skilled or faster then Lee was.. But the fact he is so much larger and stronger then him.. And please point to me where stomping on the leg joint, gouging out eyes.. And other things are allowed? Or other such things? They are not.. Hence the difference between regulated and unregulated fighting.
First of all, elbows are legal in MMA:
I can't find a gif of it, but you can certainly kick somebody's knee out. You can break joints. You can stomp on knees, elbows, etc.
The basic regulations are this:
No hair pulling
No groin strikes
No kicking or knees to the head of a "downed" opponent. You can only kick and knee to the body if they are on the ground.
No pulling or twisting of the flesh (purple nurples lol)
No "small joint manipulation" (meaning no pulling or twisting of fingers or toes)
No fingers in any orafices. (meaning no fingers in the other guys nose, eyes, ears, mouth, etc)
No hits to the back of the head or the spine.
Other than that, almost everything else is legal. There are a few smaller rules I left out like no greasing, no steroids, and things like that... but those are the main rules of combat.
This is why I find it funny that people say that fighting in street fights, an MMA guy would be at a disadvantage. Not at all. They train in martial arts FIRST. Then when they get good, they fight in tournaments and modify their abilities to fit within the rules. It's very easy to knee or stomp on somebody when they are on the ground. It's easy to hit to the back of the head (they accidently do it all the time). It's easy to kick to the balls. All of these things are easy to do when you have the opportunity in a street fight. The MMA guy is at NO disadvantage in a street fight just because he fights with rules for sport.
And another thing. If you know anything about martial arts, then you know about position. It is nearly impossible, or at least very hard to do any kind of eye gouges, groin strikes, hits to the back of the head or the spine if you don't have good position. MMA fighters are masters at positioning. They will get a street fighter in a bad position, and no amount of eye gouges or hair pulling can save you.
You underestimate (or are completely ignorant) to position in fighting.
[QUOTE="DRAGONPIECEZ"][QUOTE="BMD004"] I'm saying that people who win tournaments have real fight experience. If there were two martial artists, and they were both really good, but one of them won a bunch of tournaments, then I'd pick the guy with the real fight experience. Anyway, I don't understand how Bruce Lee has been pumped up to mythical proportions. Saying he was the best fighter EVER? No matter how big, how skilled, how fast or how strong any other fighter is, people always will say Bruce Lee can beat them up. It is absolutely comical. BMD004
Not true. One could gain as much experience sparring at their school than in an actual tournament. (In my dojo, we spar all out with no equipment. It's amazing experience.) One could also gain knowledge and experience if they tested their skills in the streets. So just because you pick the guy who you know has won all of those fancy-shmansy public tournaments, he won't necessarily defeat the person, that unbeknownst to many, has hands on experience from other resources. So there are many ways for people to have "real fighting experience", like you say, other than participating in tournaments. Just keep that in mind. ;)
You're trying to tell me? Look, sparring is great, and it prepares you for a real fight. But the only way to test yourself against the top guys in the world is to fight against the top guys in the world for real. That is the only way. If Bruce was not fighting against the top guys in the world, then he probably wouldn't be able to beat the top guys in the world. Even the future champions in the UFC weren't nearly as good as they are at the time they were the champ. Somebody can't just walk into the UFC and beat the champion if they have only sparred before. Trust me. And there is no way that you spar with no equipment at 100%. Either you are not going 100%, or you guys suck, because if you were going 100% with no equipment, you would be injured every day.Listen, don't change the subject about being the top guy in the world. We're talking about tournament experience vs. other types of training. Your logic is stating that you're a terrible fighter if you've never been in a tournament before, which is 100% false. "But gaiz itz teh only way u can get experienze!" Yes it's probably the most effective, but it's not the ONLY way to get experience. And just because you have tournament experience doesn't mean you could win in a street fight, (as tournaments have rules). And just because you DON'T have tournament experience doesn't mean you're a bad fighter. Or are you one of those guys who think MMA is the superior style, and all other martial arts are obsolete just because it's highly glamorized and is the mainstream style? So you think some 2-bit rookie MMA fighter would destroy a master of any other art in a fight, just because said MMA fighter has participated in a few tournaments, and by your logic, is a better fighter? Get real.
You're trying to tell me? Look, sparring is great, and it prepares you for a real fight. But the only way to test yourself against the top guys in the world is to fight against the top guys in the world for real. That is the only way. If Bruce was not fighting against the top guys in the world, then he probably wouldn't be able to beat the top guys in the world. Even the future champions in the UFC weren't nearly as good as they are at the time they were the champ. Somebody can't just walk into the UFC and beat the champion if they have only sparred before. Trust me. And there is no way that you spar with no equipment at 100%. Either you are not going 100%, or you guys suck, because if you were going 100% with no equipment, you would be injured every day.[QUOTE="BMD004"][QUOTE="DRAGONPIECEZ"]
Not true. One could gain as much experience sparring at their school than in an actual tournament. (In my dojo, we spar all out with no equipment. It's amazing experience.) One could also gain knowledge and experience if they tested their skills in the streets. So just because you pick the guy who you know has won all of those fancy-shmansy public tournaments, he won't necessarily defeat the person, that unbeknownst to many, has hands on experience from other resources. So there are many ways for people to have "real fighting experience", like you say, other than participating in tournaments. Just keep that in mind. ;)
DRAGONPIECEZ
Listen, don't change the subject about being the top guy in the world. We're talking about tournament experience vs. other types of training. Your logic is stating that you're a terrible fighter if you've never been in a tournament before, which is 100% false. "But gaiz itz teh only way u can get experienze!" Yes it's probably the most effective, but it's not the ONLY way to get experience. And just because you have tournament experience doesn't mean you could win in a street fight, (as tournaments have rules). And just because you DON'T have tournament experience doesn't mean you're a bad fighter. Or are you one of those guys who think MMA is the superior style, and all other martial arts are obsolete just because it's highly glamorized and is the mainstream style? So you think some 2-bit rookie MMA fighter would destroy a master of any other art in a fight, just because said MMA fighter has participated in a few tournaments, and by your logic, is a better fighter? Get real.
There is so much ignorance in this I do not even know where to start. I'll just pick it apart line by line. First, I didn't change the subject about anything. This thread is about Overeem vs Lee. Overeem is one of the top guys in the world, and you are going to tell me that somebody who has never had a real fight before, and has only sparred, has a chance in hell to beat Overeem? Get real.
And I never said that guys who have never had a real fight in a tournament are bad martial artists. Show me where I said that and I will give you a million dollars. I simply said that those who do actually fight in tournaments have way more experience in a real fight than those who have never been in a real fight. There are some things that you just cannot emulate in training. And if you think I'm wrong, you show your ignorance.
And yes, tournaments have rules... but so what? You act like because there are no rules on the street that somebody who fights in tournaments will be clueless of this and fight with rules.
Next, we have your statement about "...you're one of those guys who think MMA is a superior style and all other martial arts are obsolete because it's highly glamourized and is the mainstream style". Now you REALLY show your ignorance. This is what you don't understand... MMA is not a "style". MMA stands for "Mixed Martial Arts". It is not a style on it's own. In an MMA match, you have fighter A who trains in Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu, and fighter B who trains in Boxing, Karate, and Wrestling. There is no "MMA style". A lot of those "2-bit rookie MMA fighters" are black belts in several martial arts... so yeah, I'd say he has a good chance at beating masters of other arts. All "master" means is that thye put in the time to learn the art. It has nothing to do with how good you actually are at fighting.
Coach Jeff Van Gundy knows a LOT about basketball... you could call him a master... but does that mean he can beat Kobe Bryant in a game of 1 on 1?
I don't know about the guy in the picture, but it was said on the tv show QI that boxer Mohammed Ali could beat Bruce Lee in a fight because boxers are able to get in more punches and do more damage than Bruce Lee could from any kick.HopeStreetEh, I don't think that's a fair comparison. I think it's totally possible that Mohammed Ali could beat Bruce Lee, I mean come on that guy was one of the greatest champions of all time, but I don't think saying he would win because of a different fighting style is accurate. Burce Lee's fighting method was very practical and cut out anything that didn't work really well. He was also extraordinarily fast and could pack tremendous amounts of power into his strikes considering his size. Also you mention his kicks specifically, when in all reality he was probably much more effective in his punching ability given his original training in Wing Chun and the fact that the name of his martial arts philosophy is Jeet Kune Do, or way of the intercepting FIST, rather than way of the intercepting foot. The name alone would suggest he had punching more on his mind at some level.
To be honest if Alistair Overeem and Bruce Lee were to fight it would be completely unfair as Bruce Lee would be in an entirely different weight class since he was much smaller. The same goes for Mohammed Ali. If Bruce Lee were to fight people that were actually his own size I think his standup game would be close to unmatched but he would have to develop some sort of ground game to really be competitive at the top level.
By the way, just so everyone knows, my drive as a martial artist isn't for the sport of it, it's for the love of it. It's not to become the strongest, compete in tournaments, and see how I stack up against others. All of the glitz of it is secondary. The primary goal is personal enlightenment. It's to personally persevere. To implement every discipline I learn into everyday life. To strengthen myself, body, spirit, and mind, and to discover new things about myself daily on my path of "The Way".
[QUOTE="DRAGONPIECEZ"]After all you said, this is all you have to say now?Really! Interesting. Thanks for the food for thought. Now I won't be so uneducated on MMA anymore
BMD004
Uhh yes? There's nothing else to say. We have differing opinions as martial artists, but I took what I didn't know from you and turned it into something positive... Thanks for the MMA lesson, I didn't know that. And plus the argument is over since it was a misunderstanding... I thought you were implying that you aren't a proper martial artist if you didn't participate in tournaments.
no offense guy above me, but the guys who do it for enlightenment or to better themselves... always get mashed by the guys who just wanna break someones face in.
i do martial arts (mma) cuz i like to hit things and i like when things hit me back. the only thing i dont like about mma is staph infections. im smart enough to only fight in my weight though which is only 135-145
to the question theres no doubt that ubereem could cave lees face in. in all reality lee would be lucky if he could beat guys like roger huerta or bj penn who are his size but much meaner. bj is a 200 lb guy who drops to 155 to fight, lee couldnt stand a chance in a mma fight. as for street fights there up to chance. when you can use dirty tactics to win its anyones game. give lee a knife or broken bottle and its not a question of whos a better fighter but who wants to live more...
no offense guy above me, but the guys who do it for enlightenment or to better themselves... always get mashed by the guys who just wanna break someones face in.
i do martial arts (mma) cuz i like to hit things and i like when things hit me back. the only thing i dont like about mma is staph infections. im smart enough to only fight in my weight though which is only 135-145
to the question theres no doubt that ubereem could cave lees face in. in all reality lee would be lucky if he could beat guys like roger huerta or bj penn who are his size but much meaner. bj is a 200 lb guy who drops to 155 to fight, lee couldnt stand a chance in a mma fight. as for street fights there up to chance. when you can use dirty tactics to win its anyones game. give lee a knife or broken bottle and its not a question of whos a better fighter but who wants to live more...incred_davis
HAHA you think? Maybe we can spar someday :P
And like I said, that's not the ONLY thing I do it for... Of course I enjoy kicking some ass. You never know what will go down in the streets, always good to have something to back you up
[QUOTE="incred_davis"]
no offense guy above me, but the guys who do it for enlightenment or to better themselves... always get mashed by the guys who just wanna break someones face in.
i do martial arts (mma) cuz i like to hit things and i like when things hit me back. the only thing i dont like about mma is staph infections. im smart enough to only fight in my weight though which is only 135-145
to the question theres no doubt that ubereem could cave lees face in. in all reality lee would be lucky if he could beat guys like roger huerta or bj penn who are his size but much meaner. bj is a 200 lb guy who drops to 155 to fight, lee couldnt stand a chance in a mma fight. as for street fights there up to chance. when you can use dirty tactics to win its anyones game. give lee a knife or broken bottle and its not a question of whos a better fighter but who wants to live more...DRAGONPIECEZ
HAHA you think? Maybe we can spar someday :P
And like I said, that's not the ONLY thing I do it for... Of course I enjoy kicking some ass. You never know what will go down in the streets, always good to have something to back you up
What do you train in?[QUOTE="DRAGONPIECEZ"]
[QUOTE="incred_davis"]
no offense guy above me, but the guys who do it for enlightenment or to better themselves... always get mashed by the guys who just wanna break someones face in.
i do martial arts (mma) cuz i like to hit things and i like when things hit me back. the only thing i dont like about mma is staph infections. im smart enough to only fight in my weight though which is only 135-145
to the question theres no doubt that ubereem could cave lees face in. in all reality lee would be lucky if he could beat guys like roger huerta or bj penn who are his size but much meaner. bj is a 200 lb guy who drops to 155 to fight, lee couldnt stand a chance in a mma fight. as for street fights there up to chance. when you can use dirty tactics to win its anyones game. give lee a knife or broken bottle and its not a question of whos a better fighter but who wants to live more...BMD004
HAHA you think? Maybe we can spar someday :P
And like I said, that's not the ONLY thing I do it for... Of course I enjoy kicking some ass. You never know what will go down in the streets, always good to have something to back you up
What do you train in?Traditional Okinawan Goju-Ryu is my art
What do you train in?[QUOTE="BMD004"]
[QUOTE="DRAGONPIECEZ"]
HAHA you think? Maybe we can spar someday :P
And like I said, that's not the ONLY thing I do it for... Of course I enjoy kicking some ass. You never know what will go down in the streets, always good to have something to back you up
DRAGONPIECEZ
Traditional Okinawan Goju-Ryu is my art
Isn't that a type of karate?[QUOTE="DRAGONPIECEZ"][QUOTE="BMD004"] What do you train in?
BMD004
Traditional Okinawan Goju-Ryu is my art
Isn't that a type of karate? Ya, and the Goju-Ryu is legitimate too, not the fake mcdojo crap we get so much these days that so commonly hides falsely under the names of karate, tae kwon do, or ninjutsu. Not saying anything bad about those arts, just that the fakes like to use their names because they're so widely known.ok ill spar for shur, what cities do you train outta.. im strickly nj, ny, and philly regions. basically tri state area. we can meet up and go a few rounds.
i train in kick boxing and muy thai.. with a little bjj in their. if you weigh more then 160 i prolly wont spar with you.. i got kicked in the throat by a black belt who was around 200 (TKD) and i couldnt move my head to the side for like a month. it was even a spin kick!
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