Would teleportation technically be murder?

Ok, so let's say some time in the next decade they figure out a way of making teleporters ala Wonkavision, but without the shrinkage(Why didn't they just put mike in the machine again and teleport him to a larger screen?). So, in essence, it turns you into trillions of little particles, shoots them to another location extremely fast, and reassembles you. Now, what I'm wondering about are the moral implications of this. If you shoot someone and they are legally dead, and then revived, is it not still murder? Or, if the soul exists, would it be able to find itself to your newly assembled body? Will what comes out on the other side of the teleporter not be you, but an identical clone of yourself with all your memories? There would be no way of knowing, as the new you woudl asssume that it is you and was just teleported there, while in reality it is a new, identical consciousness inhabiting your body. Thoughts?

No.

No.

The only piece of evidence of this claim is based on the 60's Willy Wonka movie? :?spazzx625

hahaha

No.

I'm pretty sure the argument would be that the person didn't die in the first place. So no it's not murder.

Nope, if you volunteer and sign the consent form, then you deserve to die in a million little pieces it's no one elses fault.

The only piece of evidence of this claim is based on the 60's Willy Wonka movie? :?spazzx625

Teleportation DOES kill the "original".

Teleportation on a macroscopic scale is also probably IMPOSSIBLE, so we'll never have to worry about it. But if it were possible, the only way it could be done is by killing the "original" person.

if they're shot from one end of a room to another and everything is re-assembled correctly than it would be the same person and unless a doctor or some other authority is there to confirm death they're not dead, unless they come out the other side dead (or inside out)

The only piece of evidence of this claim is based on the 60's Willy Wonka movie? :?spazzx625

Only based on evidence from a Willy Wonka movie? My dear sir, what else could you possibly need?

Teleportation DOES kill the "original".

Teleportation on a macroscopic scale is also probably IMPOSSIBLE, so we'll never have to worry about it. But if it were possible, the only way it could be done is by killing the "original" person.

MrGeezer

Teleportation DOES kill the "original".

Teleportation on a macroscopic scale is also probably IMPOSSIBLE, so we'll never have to worry about it. But if it were possible, the only way it could be done is by killing the "original" person.

MrGeezer

I agree with this.

If cloning someone and then killing the clone is murder, then teleportation is just creating a clone some distance away while at the same time destroys the original being.

Since when does the word "shoot" mean with a lethal gun? You can shoot someone with a paintball gun, and they aren't legally dead.

I'm not gonna bother to read any other attempts of science because I would facepalm too hard.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Teleportation DOES kill the "original".

Teleportation on a macroscopic scale is also probably IMPOSSIBLE, so we'll never have to worry about it. But if it were possible, the only way it could be done is by killing the "original" person.

F1_2004

Yeah I'm sure everyone else in 1943 knew more about computers than the chairman of IBM. The point is, something that seems impossible today, can become a very real possibility in the near future.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Teleportation DOES kill the "original".

Teleportation on a macroscopic scale is also probably IMPOSSIBLE, so we'll never have to worry about it. But if it were possible, the only way it could be done is by killing the "original" person.

SnakeBite27

I agree with this.

If cloning someone and then killing the clone is murder, then teleportation is just creating a clone some distance away while at the same time destroys the original being.

There is a major difference there. A clone is a genetic identical to the original, but it has its own mind and thoughts. Through teleportation it is the same person that comes out that went in. Not to mention that with clones you are creating a seperate organism while in teleportation the original being itself is broken down and reassambled.

Teleportation would not be murder. Subjects are not unwillingly being teleported, and even if they were, they end up fine on the other end in a few seconds.

Yeah I'm sure everyone else in 1943 knew more about computers than the chairman of IBM. The point is, something that seems impossible today, can become a very real possibility in the near future.

F1_2004

[QUOTE="F1_2004"]

Yeah I'm sure everyone else in 1943 knew more about computers than the chairman of IBM. The point is, something that seems impossible today, can become a very real possibility in the near future.

EMOEVOLUTION

Sure, technology is finite, but something new will come out that keeps pushing the boundaries.

[QUOTE="F1_2004"]

Yeah I'm sure everyone else in 1943 knew more about computers than the chairman of IBM. The point is, something that seems impossible today, can become a very real possibility in the near future.

EMOEVOLUTION

[QUOTE="EMOEVOLUTION"][QUOTE="F1_2004"]

Yeah I'm sure everyone else in 1943 knew more about computers than the chairman of IBM. The point is, something that seems impossible today, can become a very real possibility in the near future.

F1_2004

There is a major difference there. A clone is a genetic identical to the original, but it has its own mind and thoughts. Through teleportation it is the same person that comes out that went in. Not to mention that with clones you are creating a seperate organism while in teleportation the original being itself is broken down and reassambled.

Teleportation would not be murder. Subjects are not unwillingly being teleported, and even if they were, they end up fine on the other end in a few seconds.

howlrunner13

You can't establish that it is the "same person" who emerges in a different location. How could you establish that the two are identical?

However, we CAN establish that the original person died. We know that the person died, because the creator of the teleporter explains how it works "first, my machine ripped him apart atom-by-atom."

[QUOTE="howlrunner13"]

There is a major difference there. A clone is a genetic identical to the original, but it has its own mind and thoughts. Through teleportation it is the same person that comes out that went in. Not to mention that with clones you are creating a seperate organism while in teleportation the original being itself is broken down and reassambled.

Teleportation would not be murder. Subjects are not unwillingly being teleported, and even if they were, they end up fine on the other end in a few seconds.

MrGeezer

You can't establish that it is the "same person" who emerges in a different location. How could you establish that the two are identical?

However, we CAN establish that the original person died. We know that the person died, because the creator of the teleporter explains how it works "first, my machine ripped him apart atom-by-atom."

[QUOTE="SnakeBite27"]

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Teleportation DOES kill the "original".

Teleportation on a macroscopic scale is also probably IMPOSSIBLE, so we'll never have to worry about it. But if it were possible, the only way it could be done is by killing the "original" person.

howlrunner13

I agree with this.

If cloning someone and then killing the clone is murder, then teleportation is just creating a clone some distance away while at the same time destroys the original being.

There is a major difference there. A clone is a genetic identical to the original, but it has its own mind and thoughts. Through teleportation it is the same person that comes out that went in. Not to mention that with clones you are creating a seperate organism while in teleportation the original being itself is broken down and reassambled.

Teleportation would not be murder. Subjects are not unwillingly being teleported, and even if they were, they end up fine on the other end in a few seconds.

You make good points and I'm not sure if I can argue this point but, I might make the point that the act of 'breaking down' a person, true while the act is volentary, I think it still may be a form of killing someone and maybe reviving them somewhere else.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

Teleportation DOES kill the "original".

Teleportation on a macroscopic scale is also probably IMPOSSIBLE, so we'll never have to worry about it. But if it were possible, the only way it could be done is by killing the "original" person.

F1_2004

Because if they aren't identical, it wasn't teleportation? Though really what is being described by TC is more of a fax process than what I'd call teleportation.xaos

Unless the atoms which make up your body were properly "teleported", but then just rearranged in such a way that the overall person is functionally different.

But hey, I'll give you that one. So let me just reword the question. If teleportation requires that the person will emerge identical to his earlier self, then how could we establish that what we are seeing is actually an example of teleportation?

[QUOTE="xaos"] Because if they aren't identical, it wasn't teleportation? Though really what is being described by TC is more of a fax process than what I'd call teleportation.MrGeezer

Unless the atoms which make up your body were properly "teleported", but then just rearranged in such a way that the overall person is functionally different.

But hey, I'll give you that one. So let me just reword the question. If teleportation requires that the person will emerge identical to his earlier self, then how could we establish that what we are seeing is actually an example of teleportation?

[QUOTE="howlrunner13"]

[QUOTE="SnakeBite27"]

I agree with this.

If cloning someone and then killing the clone is murder, then teleportation is just creating a clone some distance away while at the same time destroys the original being.

SnakeBite27

There is a major difference there. A clone is a genetic identical to the original, but it has its own mind and thoughts. Through teleportation it is the same person that comes out that went in. Not to mention that with clones you are creating a seperate organism while in teleportation the original being itself is broken down and reassambled.

Teleportation would not be murder. Subjects are not unwillingly being teleported, and even if they were, they end up fine on the other end in a few seconds.

You make good points and I'm not sure if I can argue this point but, I might make the point that the act of 'breaking down' a person, true while the act is volentary, I think it still may be a form of killing someone and maybe reviving them somewhere else.

Yeah, I was actually going to edit that last part out. If you could somehow show that during the breakdown process the person ceases to have brain function, then I guess technically the person could be pronounced dead.

If you shoot someone, and they die but are revived. That is attempted murder.

[QUOTE="howlrunner13"]

There is a major difference there. A clone is a genetic identical to the original, but it has its own mind and thoughts. Through teleportation it is the same person that comes out that went in. Not to mention that with clones you are creating a seperate organism while in teleportation the original being itself is broken down and reassambled.

Teleportation would not be murder. Subjects are not unwillingly being teleported, and even if they were, they end up fine on the other end in a few seconds.

MrGeezer

You can't establish that it is the "same person" who emerges in a different location. How could you establish that the two are identical?

However, we CAN establish that the original person died. We know that the person died, because the creator of the teleporter explains how it works "first, my machine ripped him apart atom-by-atom."

I think memories would be a big indicator. Then again that would only show that the person that came out of the teleporter is identical to the original person, not that it is the original person. But no one would know because it would be an exact copy.

Also I think it's presumptuous to assume that we know how teleportation will work.

[QUOTE="MrGeezer"]

[QUOTE="howlrunner13"]

There is a major difference there. A clone is a genetic identical to the original, but it has its own mind and thoughts. Through teleportation it is the same person that comes out that went in. Not to mention that with clones you are creating a seperate organism while in teleportation the original being itself is broken down and reassambled.

Teleportation would not be murder. Subjects are not unwillingly being teleported, and even if they were, they end up fine on the other end in a few seconds.

howlrunner13

You can't establish that it is the "same person" who emerges in a different location. How could you establish that the two are identical?

However, we CAN establish that the original person died. We know that the person died, because the creator of the teleporter explains how it works "first, my machine ripped him apart atom-by-atom."

I think memories would be a big indicator. Then again that would only show that the person that came out of the teleporter is identical to the original person, not that it is the original person. But no one would know because it would be an exact copy.

Also I think it's presumptuous to assume that we know how teleportation will work.

Agreed. That's what makes this discussion moot. There are plenty of good ideas and possible definitions, but few/none at the moment that would even be plausible. BUT, a fun discussion nonetheless.

If you shoot someone, and they die but are revived. That is attempted murder.

Darthmatt

Agreed. That's what makes this discussion moot. There are plenty of good ideas and possible definitions, but few/none at the moment that would even be plausible. BUT, a fun discussion nonetheless.

SnakeBite27

I think we can come up with a reasonable set of things that have to be happening during teleportation. Merely describing what teleportation IS tells us some of the things that'd have to happen during teleportation.

[QUOTE="SnakeBite27"]

Agreed. That's what makes this discussion moot. There are plenty of good ideas and possible definitions, but few/none at the moment that would even be plausible. BUT, a fun discussion nonetheless.

MrGeezer

I think we can come up with a reasonable set of things that have to be happening during teleportation. Merely describing what teleportation IS tells us some of the things that'd have to happen during teleportation.

If you stop in the middle (ie after disassembling), it would be killing the person so teleportation includes killing - it would be an accident, killing by accident is not considered murder. That is if the process was physically possible.

One word:

Telefrag.

Isnt murder when something dies?
And atemptive murder when someone tries to kill someone... Teleportation would be (probably) voulentary, and if anything there is a risk of killing you involved. BUt then again, anything has a risk of killing you...