wtf, victim of burglary got jailed, while THE BURGLAR got away!
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[QUOTE="thedr00kenirish"] Keep in mind the rage you would feel at seeing your wife and daughter not to mention sons treated so harshly. Have a child of your own then talk to me about it.Doctor-McNinjaImagine the rage i felt when i woke up one day and saw that my car had been stolen. Should i go grab a metal rod and beat the guy who took it to death? How is that even close to the same thing? His FAMILY was threatened. I love the people that come in here and defend the decision. The law is flawed. If someone did that to my family I would have hunted them down and killed them all. You have to be a despicable worthless human to do something like this and they don't deserve to live.
Ok, so the legal system should be amended how exactly according to you? The law should say that if you attempt to commit a crime, pull out and run away having caused no harm, the individual against whom you attempted to commit crime against has the legal right to hunt you down and murder you? Seriously, explain how the law should be changed so that murdering someone who has caused no harm or injury = justice. You're confusing vengeance with justice.[QUOTE="Doctor-McNinja"][QUOTE="thedr00kenirish"] He tried to remove himself from the situation because the elder son escaped and brought help. He was a coward and the fact that he threatend an entire familie's lives is justification enough.binpink
Exactly. And it's scary. Vengeance isn't commendable or brave, and I wouldn't want a family member of mine doing such a thing to a criminal who never harmed me. In fact I'd wonder why they didn't bother to come check on me right away, if they claim I'm so important.
No I claim that the legal system should be torn down and rebuilt in the image of morality and justice, not this pitiful excuse for it. You are blind to the plight of the actual victim and his family.Imagine the rage i felt when i woke up one day and saw that my car had been stolen. Should i go grab a metal rod and beat the guy who took it to death? How is that even close to the same thing? His FAMILY was threatened. I love the people that come in here and defend the decision. The law is flawed. If someone did that to my family I would have hunted them down and killed them all. You have to be a despicable worthless human to do something like this and they don't deserve to live. Thank you man, its good to finally get some support in this lol for awhile I thought everyone was against me.[QUOTE="Doctor-McNinja"][QUOTE="thedr00kenirish"] Keep in mind the rage you would feel at seeing your wife and daughter not to mention sons treated so harshly. Have a child of your own then talk to me about it.howlrunner13
[QUOTE="thedr00kenirish"] He tried to remove himself from the situation because the elder son escaped and brought help. He was a coward and the fact that he threatend an entire familie's lives is justification enough.Doctor-McNinjaOk, so the legal system should be amended how exactly according to you? The law should say that if you attempt to commit a crime, pull out and run away having caused no harm, the individual against whom you attempted to commit crime against has the legal right to hunt you down and murder you? Seriously, explain how the law should be changed so that murdering someone who has caused no harm or injury = justice. You're confusing vengeance with justice. To be truthful, someone threatening the lives of your family...if that person is not put away in prison, then it's basically like someone saying "I'm going to kill you. I will not tell you when I'll kill you, but I will kill you. It might be on a thursday." during a criminal act that is linked with violent behaviour. The mental stress caused from that is far from "no harm, no foul".
[QUOTE="binpink"][QUOTE="Doctor-McNinja"] Ok, so the legal system should be amended how exactly according to you? The law should say that if you attempt to commit a crime, pull out and run away having caused no harm, the individual against whom you attempted to commit crime against has the legal right to hunt you down and murder you? Seriously, explain how the law should be changed so that murdering someone who has caused no harm or injury = justice. You're confusing vengeance with justice. thedr00kenirish
Exactly. And it's scary. Vengeance isn't commendable or brave, and I wouldn't want a family member of mine doing such a thing to a criminal who never harmed me. In fact I'd wonder why they didn't bother to come check on me right away, if they claim I'm so important.
No I claim that the legal system should be torn down and rebuilt in the image of morality and justice, not this pitiful excuse for it. You are blind to the plight of the actual victim and his family. You are disgustingly arrogant.Yeah, so the police can arrest him throw him in jail and when he gets out he can go continue his criminal spree once again. Great way to think. That solves all the worlds problems. Assassin1349If you commit a crime you are put in prison. If you get out and commit more crime you are put back in prison, typically for a longer time. If you choose to pursue a life of crime and are constantly in and out of prison, that's terrible. You're a bad person. But last i checked, i live in a largely sane society whereby people aren't allowed to go and murder someone else because 'they're a bad person'. Ironic that you think fair and reasonable justice system wont solve the worlds problems, but beating people to death who wrong you will.
I think a 30 month sentence is pretty fair to be honest. He beat the guy with a pole and a cricket bat when he was on the ground defenceless, leaving him brain damaged.
Since the 'victims' were brought to no bodily harm, there was no justification for beating a guy to near death on the ground. It is understandable why he did it, but the legal system can't allow people to exact their revenge and encourage vigilantism as it only brings more violence.
I think the legal system got this one just right. Just my opinion.
[QUOTE="Assassin1349"]Yeah, so the police can arrest him throw him in jail and when he gets out he can go continue his criminal spree once again. Great way to think. That solves all the worlds problems. Doctor-McNinjaIf you commit a crime you are put in prison. If you get out and commit more crime you are put back in prison, typically for a longer time. If you choose to pursue a life of crime and are constantly in and out of prison, that's terrible. You're a bad person. But last i checked, i live in a largely sane society whereby people aren't allowed to go and murder someone else because 'they're a bad person'. Ironic that you think fair and reasonable justice system wont solve the worlds problems, but beating people to death who wrong you will. It doesn't solve any problems. Crimes are continuously committed because the people survive to commit them. A seriall killer has several victims. A robber has several robberies.
Some people are of the opinion that a criminal has no rights and should be murdered, unfortunately. From that standpoint, this is not a just outcome. I agree with you 100% however.I think a 30 month sentence is pretty fair to be honest. He beat the guy with a pole and a cricket bat when he was on the ground defenceless, leaving him brain damaged.
Since the 'victims' were brought to no bodily harm, there was no justification for beating a guy to near death on the ground. It is understandable why he did it, but the legal system can't allow people to exact their revenge and encourage vigilantism as it only brings more violence.
I think the legal system got this one just right. Just my opinion.
IAMTHEJOKER88
It doesn't solve any problems. Crimes are continuously committed because the people survive to commit them. Assassin1349So your honest solution to stopping crime is what, exactly, to murder anyone who commits one? Seriously?
[QUOTE="Assassin1349"]It doesn't solve any problems. Crimes are continuously committed because the people survive to commit them. Doctor-McNinjaSo your honest solution to stopping crime is what, exactly, to murder anyone who commits one? Seriously? Correct. It would put an end to their criminal activity for good.
Well you can continue to be civilized and blindly follow a moral code but it's going to eventually bite your ass off. if you ask me, you have the absolute right to punish someone if they just threatened the life of you or your family and friends. After all, a crime is between the victim and the criminal. Who decides the punishment? Some fat Judge that strictly follows black and white laws? And by the way, you can't base morals to be facts. Assassin1349Yes you can. Moral values can be followed or ignored or degraded; you cannot just make them up however. You cannot say 'it's ok and moral to murder someone if they're a bad person'. No. That's wrong, that's not moral at all. Fact. Not opinion - fact. Crime is indeed between the victim and the criminal; but it's up to the courts to solve that problem. The victim has absolutely no right to murder someone to punish them for their crimes. That is not justice, that's barbarism.
[QUOTE="Assassin1349"]Well you can continue to be civilized and blindly follow a moral code but it's going to eventually bite your ass off. if you ask me, you have the absolute right to punish someone if they just threatened the life of you or your family and friends. After all, a crime is between the victim and the criminal. Who decides the punishment? Some fat Judge that strictly follows black and white laws? And by the way, you can't base morals to be facts. Doctor-McNinjaYes you can. Moral values can be followed or ignored or degraded; you cannot just make them up however. You cannot say 'it's ok and moral to murder someone if they're a bad person'. No. That's wrong, that's not moral at all. Fact. Not opinion - fact. Crime is indeed between the victim and the criminal; but it's up to the courts to solve that problem. The victim has absolutely no right to murder someone to punish them for their crimes. That is not justice, that's barbarism. None of that is true. You just follow it.
[QUOTE="Doctor-McNinja"][QUOTE="Assassin1349"]It doesn't solve any problems. Crimes are continuously committed because the people survive to commit them. Assassin1349So your honest solution to stopping crime is what, exactly, to murder anyone who commits one? Seriously? Correct. It would put an end to their criminal activity for good. I cant argue against that. I can only comment that it's ridiculous. Commit a crime = you should be murdered? Do we live in medieval times?
No not for the burglary but for threatening the lives of a mans family in front his eyes. Thats abhorrent and wrong. You judge my morals but at least I take a hardline on those that lay such threats upon the innocent. I reject your notions of right and wrong and instead point out that this entire time you have been basing your argument on some mislaid delusion that it is ok to bind an entire family in their home and threaten them with death. pardon me for pondering the hypocrisy in you attacking my morals sir. I mean its ok, we can all just allow ourselves to be treated so harshly right? As long as justice is served and the criminal gets probation or a few months of jail?thedr00kenirish
And yet the thing is, had the man not been brain damaged to the point where he couldn't even communicate properly in court, he would almost undoubtedly have been dealt with very harshly due to his prior convictions and the nature of his offense and would have been locked up for a very long time. As for this line - 'you have been basing your argument on some mislaid delusion that it is ok to bind an entire family in their home and threaten them with death'. I challenge you to point out - even one instance - where i said that, even indirectly.
That is just absolute nonsense. I made no argument of the sort. I made no reference whatsoever to the criminal's actions as being ok or not ok, i made reference only to the victim's reaction which was excessive and got him into trouble. Had he not been brutally beaten and given brain damage, he would not have been given 'probation and a few months of jail', especially not in English courts currently which take very hard lines against violent crime.
[QUOTE="thedr00kenirish"] No not for the burglary but for threatening the lives of a mans family in front his eyes. Thats abhorrent and wrong. You judge my morals but at least I take a hardline on those that lay such threats upon the innocent. I reject your notions of right and wrong and instead point out that this entire time you have been basing your argument on some mislaid delusion that it is ok to bind an entire family in their home and threaten them with death. pardon me for pondering the hypocrisy in you attacking my morals sir. I mean its ok, we can all just allow ourselves to be treated so harshly right? As long as justice is served and the criminal gets probation or a few months of jail?Doctor-McNinja
And yet the thing is, had the man not been brain damaged to the point where he couldn't even communicate properly in court, he would almost undoubtedly have been dealt with very harshly due to his prior convictions and the nature of his offense and would have been locked up for a very long time. As for this line - 'you have been basing your argument on some mislaid delusion that it is ok to bind an entire family in their home and threaten them with death'. I challenge you to point out - even one instance - where i said that, even indirectly.
That is just absolute nonsense. I made no argument of the sort. I made no reference whatsoever to the criminal's actions as being ok or not ok, i made reference only to the victim's reaction which was excessive and got him into trouble. Had he not been brutally beaten and given brain damage, he would not have been given 'probation and a few months of jail', especially not in English courts currently which take very hard lines against violent crime.
Your refusal to answer my question posed directly to you as to what your reaction would have been in his situation, which you parried many times before changing the subject. You sir are soft on crime, hard on the common man and lacking in perspective. This is a circular argument which is going nowhere and which neither of us will attain absolution. You have your views, I have mine. The most interesting part of this is that the debate rages just as passionately outside of us GSers as it does in this very forum. My closing argument in our little personal debate is that this is just one more example of the lack of perspective and the product of a jaded and docile society. Do not be blind to the flaws in our legal system and do not be so quick to take the side of the eventual loser. A man makes his own bed and deserves to lie in it.
[QUOTE="Doctor-McNinja"]Your refusal to answer my question posed directly to you as to what your reaction would have been in his situation, which you parried many times before changing the subject. You sir are soft on crime, hard on the common man and lacking in perspective. This is a circular argument which is going nowhere and which neither of us will attain absolution. You have your views, I have mine. The most interesting part of this is that the debate rages just as passionately outside of us GSers as it does in this very forum. My closing argument in our little personal debate is that this is just one more example of the lack of perspective and the product of a jaded and docile society. Do not be blind to the flaws in our legal system and do not be so quick to take the side of the eventual loser. A man makes his own bed and deserves to lie in it.The dude that did the beating deserves jail time. That is a crime by the way......And yet the thing is, had the man not been brain damaged to the point where he couldn't even communicate properly in court, he would almost undoubtedly have been dealt with very harshly due to his prior convictions and the nature of his offense and would have been locked up for a very long time. As for this line - 'you have been basing your argument on some mislaid delusion that it is ok to bind an entire family in their home and threaten them with death'. I challenge you to point out - even one instance - where i said that, even indirectly.
That is just absolute nonsense. I made no argument of the sort. I made no reference whatsoever to the criminal's actions as being ok or not ok, i made reference only to the victim's reaction which was excessive and got him into trouble. Had he not been brutally beaten and given brain damage, he would not have been given 'probation and a few months of jail', especially not in English courts currently which take very hard lines against violent crime.
thedr00kenirish
He has acknowledged that it is against the law to brutally beat someone. He said the law should be torn down and rebuilt on a system of 'morality', that moral system being that criminals should be murdered or beaten by those who they commit crimes against.The dude that did the beating deserves jail time. That is a crime by the way......
LJS9502_basic
Your refusal to answer my question posed directly to you as to what your reaction would have been in his situation, which you parried many times before changing the subject. You sir are soft on crime, hard on the common man and lacking in perspective. This is a circular argument which is going nowhere and which neither of us will attain absolution. You have your views, I have mine. The most interesting part of this is that the debate rages just as passionately outside of us GSers as it does in this very forum. My closing argument in our little personal debate is that this is just one more example of the lack of perspective and the product of a jaded and docile society. Do not be blind to the flaws in our legal system and do not be so quick to take the side of the eventual loser. A man makes his own bed and deserves to lie in it.The dude that did the beating deserves jail time. That is a crime by the way...... @Doc: I agree that this has indeed run its course and it was very well played indeed. I enjoyed our debate and I respect your desire to staunchly defend your opinion, even if I dont personally agree with it. You are, to be cliche, a gentleman and a scholar :p @Random number name guy: Im aware that it is a crime but I disagree with it on a moral basis and I cannot reconcile the judge's decision with my own local laws and the ingrained duty of a father and husband of my heritage.[QUOTE="thedr00kenirish"][QUOTE="Doctor-McNinja"]
And yet the thing is, had the man not been brain damaged to the point where he couldn't even communicate properly in court, he would almost undoubtedly have been dealt with very harshly due to his prior convictions and the nature of his offense and would have been locked up for a very long time. As for this line - 'you have been basing your argument on some mislaid delusion that it is ok to bind an entire family in their home and threaten them with death'. I challenge you to point out - even one instance - where i said that, even indirectly.
That is just absolute nonsense. I made no argument of the sort. I made no reference whatsoever to the criminal's actions as being ok or not ok, i made reference only to the victim's reaction which was excessive and got him into trouble. Had he not been brutally beaten and given brain damage, he would not have been given 'probation and a few months of jail', especially not in English courts currently which take very hard lines against violent crime.
LJS9502_basic
[QUOTE="LJS9502_basic"]He has acknowledged that it is against the law to brutally beat someone. He said the law should be torn down and rebuilt on a system of 'morality', that moral system being that criminals should be murdered or beaten by those who they commit crimes against. That was assasin Doc, I thoroughly disagree with that but I feel that if you come into a mans house and abuse his family you deserve whatever the man lays on you.The dude that did the beating deserves jail time. That is a crime by the way......
Doctor-McNinja
Considering the situation, I'd think adrenaline and rage would cause them to inflict more harm than they otherwise would have. Not to mention they probably didn't know how old the assailant was either. I mean, they could have accidentally damaged his head while trying to pin him.
@Random number name guy: Im aware that it is a crime but I disagree with it on a moral basis and I cannot reconcile the judge's decision with my own local laws and the ingrained duty of a father and husband of my heritage.thedr00kenirishRandom number guy?:? New to OT?
Where do you live? In most countries retaliation for a crime is not considered proper. The justice system is set up to be impartial and unbiased. Vigilantism is not the way to go.
Random number guy?:? New to OT?[QUOTE="thedr00kenirish"]@Random number name guy: Im aware that it is a crime but I disagree with it on a moral basis and I cannot reconcile the judge's decision with my own local laws and the ingrained duty of a father and husband of my heritage.LJS9502_basic
Where do you live? In most countries retaliation for a crime is not considered proper. The justice system is set up to be impartial and unbiased. Vigilantism is not the way to go.
Well the thing is that if your family gets abused infront of you than the impulse from that can make you do bad things without really thinking about it....that should not be punishable since you werent really in your senses by no fault of your own...Not really. The first response should be that since the danger is passed.....check on the family. Not run out the door after the burglar. You call the police and let them deal with it. What he did was far beyond what a normal individual would do in that situation. It is fault and he should be punished. Would you feel differently if he had mistakenly attacked an innocent individual?Well the thing is that if your family gets abused infront of you than the impulse from that can make you do bad things without really thinking about it....that should not be punishable since you werent really in your senses by no fault of your own...
Gambler_3
Not really. The first response should be that since the danger is passed.....check on the family. Not run out the door after the burglar. You call the police and let them deal with it. What he did was far beyond what a normal individual would do in that situation. It is fault and he should be punished. Would you feel differently if he had mistakenly attacked an innocent individual?Mistakenly? Yes since it's careless behaviour beyond excuse to mistakenly attack a wrong person.[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]
Well the thing is that if your family gets abused infront of you than the impulse from that can make you do bad things without really thinking about it....that should not be punishable since you werent really in your senses by no fault of your own...
LJS9502_basic
Random number guy?:? New to OT?[QUOTE="thedr00kenirish"]@Random number name guy: Im aware that it is a crime but I disagree with it on a moral basis and I cannot reconcile the judge's decision with my own local laws and the ingrained duty of a father and husband of my heritage.LJS9502_basic
Where do you live? In most countries retaliation for a crime is not considered proper. The justice system is set up to be impartial and unbiased. Vigilantism is not the way to go.
Lol yes i am i was on the fileplanet forums for years but got sick and needed a change. I live on the Eastern Shore of Maryland where if u **** with one of us well **** you up back. Is the law of the land here.There was a case here in canada a few years back, some guy kept breaking into a families home, taking everything they could find and threatening to kill them, and they kept getting away. So one night the husband stayed up waiting for them, and by chance they came. Only this time he sat at the top of the stairs with a bat in his hands, he hit one of the guys and put him in a coma with severe brain damage - all with one hit. Guess what happened? He got put in jail for attempted murder and i think excessive force. Had he killed the man he most likely would have got off - thats the twisted part. Because here in canada, we can make our pedophiles, killers and career criminals regular joes and put them back into society with our screwed up justice system.
ThisPathetic. Who cares if he chased him out and beat him; the idiot deserved it..
taj7575
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