ATi Radeon HD3870 Analysis

[QUOTE="Thinker_145"]Well ok but what does that have to do with high quality filtering and transperancy AA.LordEC911

It has to do with you not knowing what you are talking about...
Which I said the first time I read one of your posts.

I know about that stuff you linked and i do use enhance the application whenever going above 4xAA.But supersampling and 4xAA really looks perfect to me.

I dont know what i am missing here.Maybe you can shed some light.:?

Why are you showing me older benchmarks when i show you benchmarks with newer drivers.Becnhmarks with older drivers are irrevalent when newer drivers show a different story.And how about the DX10 shootout.You people keep showing me your links and ignore mine.We cant go anywhere with this.

Thinker_145

:|

I provided benchmarks with BETA/ALPHA drivers for the HD2900 XT, which show that it outperforms the 8800 GTS 640MB in the majority of cases.

Your argument of old drivers is self ownage. ATi had nothing but beta/alpha drivers for the HD2900 XT launch/review phase, while NVIDIA had quite mature drivers at the time. As time goes by, the HD2900 XT increases in performance much more in contrast to the 8800 GTS'. Do you understand that logic?

Further, DX10 is still in its infancy at the moment. You can go and post as much as you want (I'm not denying that NVIDIA have better performance in the majority of DX10 games), but developers are still learning how to write effective DX10 code. Right now, they're being spoon fed by NVIDIA and its "TWIMTBP" program, so it's a no brainer as to why G80 performs R600 in a lot of tests.

To prove that R600 isn't rubbish at DX10, look at Techland's "Call of Juarez". The game runs very well on R600--why? The exact same reason why NVIDIA cards perform well in NVIDIA "TWIMTBP" titles.

Until developers get their own independance and improve their skills with DX10, I'll take a grain of salt when viewing benchmarks.

And do you know that i also got a free game with my card which saved me $50:|.Sorry but that black box thing is laughable.And you are talking about things not related to performance and not mention the power consumption.You mention HDMI as being something.The last time i saw the majority of PC gamers dont have HDMI capable screens.Sorry but these are simply ridiculous points.

Thinker

Again, why do you apply your own circumstance uniformly for everyone?

Not every who bought an 8800 GTS got a free game, and there some people do play their gaming PC on their HD TV sets.

This is simply fanboy ignorance.

I am not going to argue with anything else as that's just opinion.However i am going to leave you with a fact and that is that the 640GTS beats any single ATI card.I have given enough proof and this is my last.And this is using new drivers where the 640MB GTS comfortably beats the 3870.

Thinker

...you have as much credibility as Paris Hilton saying she's a virgin.

Can you at least use reputable sites to support your arguments? I wonder why you avoid sites such as anandtech, techreport, xbitlabs, beyond3d and etc...

And BTW the 640GTS loses to the 3870 in 3dmark but wins in the majority of games.So much for your real world performance.

Thinker

Link?

From a reliable source please.

Also, I don't see an issue with the HD3870 outperforming the 8800 GTS in 3DMark06. The HD3870 manages to keep up or outperform the HD2900 XT, which in turn managed to keep up or outperform the 8800 GTS.

I dont know what you are trying to say.I said that they are using high quality filtering and multisampling.You somehow think that i am contradicting to my statement of using AA and AF in games as necessary.

I know about that stuff you linked and i do use enhance the application whenever going above 4xAA.But supersampling and 4xAA really looks perfect to me.

I dont know what i am missing here.Maybe you can shed some light.:?Thinker_145

Ignorance is bliss...
If you really can't figure out what I am saying after you re-read my posts, then I guess all I can do is pray for you.

[QUOTE="Thinker_145"]

Why are you showing me older benchmarks when i show you benchmarks with newer drivers.Becnhmarks with older drivers are irrevalent when newer drivers show a different story.And how about the DX10 shootout.You people keep showing me your links and ignore mine.We cant go anywhere with this.

Wesker776

:|

I provided benchmarks with BETA/ALPHA drivers for the HD2900 XT, which show that it outperforms the 8800 GTS 640MB in the majority of cases.

Your argument of old drivers is self ownage. ATi had nothing but beta/alpha drivers for the HD2900 XT launch/review phase, while NVIDIA had quite mature drivers at the time. As time goes by, the HD2900 XT increases in performance much more in contrast to the 8800 GTS'. Do you understand that logic?

Further, DX10 is still in its infancy at the moment. You can go and post as much as you want (I'm not denying that NVIDIA have better performance in the majority of DX10 games), but developers are still learning how to write effective DX10 code. Right now, they're being spoon fed by NVIDIA and its "TWIMTBP" program, so it's a no brainer as to why G80 performs R600 in a lot of tests.

To prove that R600 isn't rubbish at DX10, look at Techland's "Call of Juarez". The game runs very well on R600--why? The exact same reason why NVIDIA cards perform well in NVIDIA "TWIMTBP" titles.

Until developers get their own independance and improve their skills with DX10, I'll take a grain of salt when viewing benchmarks.

And do you know that i also got a free game with my card which saved me $50:|.Sorry but that black box thing is laughable.And you are talking about things not related to performance and not mention the power consumption.You mention HDMI as being something.The last time i saw the majority of PC gamers dont have HDMI capable screens.Sorry but these are simply ridiculous points.

Thinker

Again, why do you apply your own circumstance uniformly for everyone?

Not every who bought an 8800 GTS got a free game, and there some people do play their gaming PC on their HD TV sets.

This is simply fanboy ignorance.

I am not going to argue with anything else as that's just opinion.However i am going to leave you with a fact and that is that the 640GTS beats any single ATI card.I have given enough proof and this is my last.And this is using new drivers where the 640MB GTS comfortably beats the 3870.

Thinker

...you have as much credibility as Paris Hilton saying she's a virgin.

Can you at least use reputable sites to support your arguments? I wonder why you avoid sites such as anandtech, techreport, xbitlabs, beyond3d and etc...

And BTW the 640GTS loses to the 3870 in 3dmark but wins in the majority of games.So much for your real world performance.

Thinker

Link?

From a reliable source please.

Also, I don't see an issue with the HD3870 outperforming the 8800 GTS in 3DMark06. The HD3870 manages to keep up or outperform the HD2900 XT, which in turn managed to keep up or outperform the 8800 GTS.

The 2900XT beats the GTS with beta drivers but loses with mature drivers and the way you try to spin off this just madness.:lol:

You have lost all credibility son.I am not going to bother arguing on this with you anymore.

Your denial is astounding."Realiable sources":lol:

The 2900XT beats the GTS with beta drivers but loses with mature drivers and the way you try to spin off this just madness.:lol:

You have lost all credibility son.I am not going to bother arguing on this with you anymore.

Thinker_145

Damage control at its finest.

Laugh all you want, but in a debate you're expected to use reliable sources to prove all the points you make.

I can go make a blog site benchmarking hardware and use that to prove my points, can I? No. This is why editorials (good editorials at that) exist for all to access.

[QUOTE="Thinker_145"]

Your denial is astounding."Realiable sources":lol:

The 2900XT beats the GTS with beta drivers but loses with mature drivers and the way you try to spin off this just madness.:lol:

You have lost all credibility son.I am not going to bother arguing on this with you anymore.

Wesker776

Damage control at its finest.

Laugh all you want, but in a debate you're expected to use reliable sources to prove all the points you make.

I can go make a blog site benchmarking hardware and use that to prove my points, can I? No. This is why editorials (good editorials at that) exist for all to access.

It wont hurt me in the least to admit that the 2900XT is better but from what i see it isnt.After i am free i'll look into detail and make a thread about the comparasion between the 2 cards.

[QUOTE="Wesker776"][QUOTE="Thinker_145"]

Your denial is astounding."Realiable sources":lol:

The 2900XT beats the GTS with beta drivers but loses with mature drivers and the way you try to spin off this just madness.:lol:

You have lost all credibility son.I am not going to bother arguing on this with you anymore.

Thinker_145

Damage control at its finest.

Laugh all you want, but in a debate you're expected to use reliable sources to prove all the points you make.

I can go make a blog site benchmarking hardware and use that to prove my points, can I? No. This is why editorials (good editorials at that) exist for all to access.

It wont hurt me in the least to admit that the 2900XT is better but from what i see it isnt.After i am free i'll look into detail and make a thread about the comparasion between the 2 cards.

Listen guys and gals,

These threads are great most of the time and productive in that they are educational. However for those of you just posting comments that have nothing to do with the topic at hand and are just using your posts to ridicule other users: STOP!

It wasn't that long ago that we had to implement a no ATi vrs nVidia and no AMD vrs Intel set of rules around here. Myself and the rest of the moderation team don't want to have to bring those back so knock off the personal attacks and stick to benchmarks to prove your points otherwise we'll have to start adopting System Wars type rules.

hd2900xt is clearly better than 8800gts. But I'm not here becouse of that. Someone said that hd3870 is a faster card than hd2900xt. I simply cannot agree. True, it's much more worth the price and it's really close to hd2900xt, but it stays behind in majority of benchmarks. I'm not trying to convince you to buy 2900 instead of 3870 (that would be stupid). I just pointed out some facts, people should know.jernas

I hope your joking... about the 2900xt being faster than HD3870.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=7

hd2900xt is clearly better than 8800gts. But I'm not here becouse of that. Someone said that hd3870 is a faster card than hd2900xt. I simply cannot agree. True, it's much more worth the price and it's really close to hd2900xt, but it stays behind in majority of benchmarks. I'm not trying to convince you to buy 2900 instead of 3870 (that would be stupid). I just pointed out some facts, people should know.jernas

[QUOTE="jernas"]hd2900xt is clearly better than 8800gts. But I'm not here becouse of that. Someone said that hd3870 is a faster card than hd2900xt. I simply cannot agree. True, it's much more worth the price and it's really close to hd2900xt, but it stays behind in majority of benchmarks. I'm not trying to convince you to buy 2900 instead of 3870 (that would be stupid). I just pointed out some facts, people should know.Bebi_vegeta

I hope your joking... about the 2900xt being faster than HD3870.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=7

[QUOTE="Thinker_145"]

I have another source for the ATI fanboys.I have already seen enough denial with this already.

"If you're looking to squeeze the most frames out of your budget in the high-end category, look no further than the GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB. It sailed through our benchmarks with ease, and you can easily find overclocked variants of the card selling for marginally more than stock versions. The GeForce 8800 GTX and Ultra offer excellent performance, but the premium pricing kills the value angle. ATI's Radeon HD 2900 XT comes close to the GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB, but the GTS still maintains a slight edge in price and frame rates."

/thread.

Bebi_vegeta

Catalyst 7.6, Forceware 158.22.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"]

[QUOTE="jernas"]hd2900xt is clearly better than 8800gts. But I'm not here becouse of that. Someone said that hd3870 is a faster card than hd2900xt. I simply cannot agree. True, it's much more worth the price and it's really close to hd2900xt, but it stays behind in majority of benchmarks. I'm not trying to convince you to buy 2900 instead of 3870 (that would be stupid). I just pointed out some facts, people should know.Thinker_145

I hope your joking... about the 2900xt being faster than HD3870.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151&p=7

I trust anandtech way more then any other source.

But then again, maybe AA is better on 2900XT.

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="Thinker_145"]

I have another source for the ATI fanboys.I have already seen enough denial with this already.

"If you're looking to squeeze the most frames out of your budget in the high-end category, look no further than the GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB. It sailed through our benchmarks with ease, and you can easily find overclocked variants of the card selling for marginally more than stock versions. The GeForce 8800 GTX and Ultra offer excellent performance, but the premium pricing kills the value angle. ATI's Radeon HD 2900 XT comes close to the GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB, but the GTS still maintains a slight edge in price and frame rates."

/thread.

Thinker_145

Catalyst 7.6, Forceware 158.22.

Yes keep arguing about the 2900XT since this is a thread for HD3870... Unless i'm in the wrong topic?

[QUOTE="jernas"]hd2900xt is clearly better than 8800gts. But I'm not here becouse of that. Someone said that hd3870 is a faster card than hd2900xt. I simply cannot agree. True, it's much more worth the price and it's really close to hd2900xt, but it stays behind in majority of benchmarks. I'm not trying to convince you to buy 2900 instead of 3870 (that would be stupid). I just pointed out some facts, people should know.Thinker_145

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="Thinker_145"]

I have another source for the ATI fanboys.I have already seen enough denial with this already.

"If you're looking to squeeze the most frames out of your budget in the high-end category, look no further than the GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB. It sailed through our benchmarks with ease, and you can easily find overclocked variants of the card selling for marginally more than stock versions. The GeForce 8800 GTX and Ultra offer excellent performance, but the premium pricing kills the value angle. ATI's Radeon HD 2900 XT comes close to the GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB, but the GTS still maintains a slight edge in price and frame rates."

/thread.

Thinker_145

Catalyst 7.6, Forceware 158.22.

Thinker, live up to your name for once.

Wesker, very great thread here. Hopefully ATi comes on top just so Nvidia fanboys can be humbled. actually all fanboys need to be humbled.

This thread is still alive?

It should have ended on the first page with this quote:

Either way, you can't lose.Wesker776

Just tell me one thing wesker.The price difference between the 3870 and 8800GT is $30.Why would anybody in their right mind who have the money not spend the extra money.I mean what value does a paltry "$30" have in the big picture when we spend thousands on our PC's and gaming setups.I'll tell you "absolutely nothing".

People buy $100+ casings when a $50 would do them fine and then talk about saving $30 on a graphics card?People will buy overkill PSU's whose power would possibly never be used?Why do an extra "$30" not bother them then?

I dont know about the prices when you bought your card but if you buy a 3870 now then you simply made the wrong decision if you are a serious gamer and spend some decent money on gaming.

Are you trying to tell me that across the whole globe, the price difference between an 8800 GT and a HD3870 is only $30 USD?

Why do you take one statistic and apply it uniformly to everything?

I said that that with either the HD3870 or 8800 GT, you can't lose. Some go with the HD3870 because they have a CrossFire capable motherboard (e.g. me), some buy it because it's cheaper than the 8800 GT (the difference is never concrete) while some buy the 8800 GT because they want the extra performance. Some people may even buy the HD3870 because they have their PC connected to their HDTV sets, and don't want to deal with cable mess. Heck, some may even want a more silent PC in which case they aim for a HD3870 or 8800 GTS G92 (dual slot silent fans)... There's a number of reasons why someone would want either card over the other.

Also, did you spend thousands on your rig? :| If someone is spending thousands on a PC, I don't think they'll be aiming at the HD3870 or 8800 GT...

Finally, are you trying to say that enthusiasts who bought the HD3870 aren't serious gamers?

Are you trying to tell me that across the whole globe, the price difference between an 8800 GT and a HD3870 is only $30 USD?

Why do you take one statistic and apply it uniformly to everything?

I said that that with either the HD3870 or 8800 GT, you can't lose. Some go with the HD3870 because they have a CrossFire capable motherboard (e.g. me), some buy it because it's cheaper than the 8800 GT (the difference is never concrete) while some buy the 8800 GT because they want the extra performance. Some people may even buy the HD3870 because they have their PC connected to their HDTV sets, and don't want to deal with cable mess. Heck, some may even want a more silent PC in which case they aim for a HD3870 or 8800 GTS G92 (dual slot silent fans)... There's a number of reasons why someone would want either card over the other.

Also, did you spend thousands on your rig? :| If someone is spending thousands on a PC, I don't think they'll be aiming at the HD3870 or 8800 GT...

Finally, are you trying to say that enthusiasts who bought the HD3870 aren't serious gamers?

Wesker776

The MSRP of 3870 is $220 and 8800GT is $250.Both have seen fluctuations in their prices but the relative difference has remained the same.

You talk about price/performance so much why would you even let dual cards enter your mind.Contradictions much?

Anyways to bring in the situation of owning an SLI or CF borad is just grasping for straws.And if you have a CF board then you must have a beeferer PSU as well which furthur destorys your argument of price/performance.

Personal preferences will always be there,we are not to discuss that.

Whatever is there in my sig cost me a combined total of $1500.My card was alone $480.The problem is that i live in a thrid world country and when ever a new card comes it takes anywhere from 3-6 months to come here and then there is something better on the horizon when it actually comes so i cant really help this and GPU prices will mostly never fall to what their original prices were.And ya i will spend more money on my gaming like right now i am thinking about the average sound quality of my setup.Point is i will continue to spend(as long as i am able to) to make my gaming experience better and it will go into the thousands ofcourse.

Considering the MSRP of both cards(and the prices at newegg basically) and completely ignoring any dual cardmentality,yes an anthusiast gamer made a very stupid decision in buying the 3870.

Dont get me wrong the 3870 is a fantastic card and should satisfy any gamer but the thing is that the substitutes currently are just a far better option.Look at the new GTS,available at $280 after rebate at newegg,for me that renders the 8800GT pretty useless so dont think that i am a fanboy or something.

You talk about price/performance so much why would you even let dual cards enter your mind.Contradictions much?

Anyways to bring in the situation of owning an SLI or CF borad is just grasping for straws.And if you have a CF board then you must have a beeferer PSU as well which furthur destorys your argument of price/performance.

Thinker_145

Dual cards do have their place - the problem is that a very small minority of computer builders know how to properly plan for an SLI/Crossfire setup from the get-go, and even fewer of them know when they should buy their second card (before it becomes outdated/out of production, yet after a few price drops). Picking up an HD3870 or 8800GT now with the intention to go SLI/Crossfire at some point in the future is not a bad idea if you're tracking the market and know when to jump.

As to the second paragraph, not everyone buying an HD3870 is buying a new rig. Some people might be on an older 975X board, and are looking to upgrade, and could be considering a Crossfire setup in the future. Or maybe they got the DFI ICFX3200 board and a mid-range hold-over card, and haven't quite jumped the gun yet. Even in a new rig, a bit of planning for the future can take precedence over a bit of extra performance now.

[QUOTE="Thinker_145"]

You talk about price/performance so much why would you even let dual cards enter your mind.Contradictions much?

Anyways to bring in the situation of owning an SLI or CF borad is just grasping for straws.And if you have a CF board then you must have a beeferer PSU as well which furthur destorys your argument of price/performance.

RayvinAzn

Dual cards do have their place - the problem is that a very small minority of computer builders know how to properly plan for an SLI/Crossfire setup from the get-go, and even fewer of them know when they should buy their second card (before it becomes outdated/out of production, yet after a few price drops). Picking up an HD3870 or 8800GT now with the intention to go SLI/Crossfire at some point in the future is not a bad idea if you're tracking the market and know when to jump.

As to the second paragraph, not everyone buying an HD3870 is buying a new rig. Some people might be on an older 975X board, and are looking to upgrade, and could be considering a Crossfire setup in the future. Or maybe they got the DFI ICFX3200 board and a mid-range hold-over card, and haven't quite jumped the gun yet. Even in a new rig, a bit of planning for the future can take precedence over a bit of extra performance now.

I am not going into CF vs SLI on this but just a general thing about dual cards.

That is definitely a new dimension to this.But let's suppose i was living in the US and got myself an SLI board,600W PSU and single 640GTS.Now when is the right time,the 640GTS is $300 right now and not exactly worth it even for someone SLing it.Will it become anymore cheaper?

I am not going into CF vs SLI on this but just a general thing about dual cards.

Thinker_145

Well, we're already seeing a decreased availability of the 8800GTS. Nothing alarming, but it's clear that the card is on the way out, or at least falling out of grace. I'd guess sometime before summer, or when the 9800GTX comes out (whichever comes first) would probably be the ideal time to buy, but it's too far off for me to predict with any high degree of accuracy when the exact best time to buy would be. One thing I can tell you though: they're probably not making any more G80 processors. The time to get a second 8800GTS 320MB/640MB is definitely close.

[QUOTE="Thinker_145"][QUOTE="jernas"]hd2900xt is clearly better than 8800gts. But I'm not here becouse of that. Someone said that hd3870 is a faster card than hd2900xt. I simply cannot agree. True, it's much more worth the price and it's really close to hd2900xt, but it stays behind in majority of benchmarks. I'm not trying to convince you to buy 2900 instead of 3870 (that would be stupid). I just pointed out some facts, people should know.lettuceman44

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce_8800_gts_512mb_review_bfg/479/13/

[QUOTE="Thinker_145"]

Why are you showing me older benchmarks when i show you benchmarks with newer drivers.Becnhmarks with older drivers are irrevalent when newer drivers show a different story.And how about the DX10 shootout.You people keep showing me your links and ignore mine.We cant go anywhere with this.

Wesker776

:|

I provided benchmarks with BETA/ALPHA drivers for the HD2900 XT, which show that it outperforms the 8800 GTS 640MB in the majority of cases.

Your argument of old drivers is self ownage. ATi had nothing but beta/alpha drivers for the HD2900 XT launch/review phase, while NVIDIA had quite mature drivers at the time. As time goes by, the HD2900 XT increases in performance much more in contrast to the 8800 GTS'. Do you understand that logic?

Further, DX10 is still in its infancy at the moment. You can go and post as much as you want (I'm not denying that NVIDIA have better performance in the majority of DX10 games), but developers are still learning how to write effective DX10 code. Right now, they're being spoon fed by NVIDIA and its "TWIMTBP" program, so it's a no brainer as to why G80 performs R600 in a lot of tests.

To prove that R600 isn't rubbish at DX10, look at Techland's "Call of Juarez". The game runs very well on R600--why? The exact same reason why NVIDIA cards perform well in NVIDIA "TWIMTBP" titles.

Until developers get their own independance and improve their skills with DX10, I'll take a grain of salt when viewing benchmarks.

And do you know that i also got a free game with my card which saved me $50:|.Sorry but that black box thing is laughable.And you are talking about things not related to performance and not mention the power consumption.You mention HDMI as being something.The last time i saw the majority of PC gamers dont have HDMI capable screens.Sorry but these are simply ridiculous points.

Thinker

Again, why do you apply your own circumstance uniformly for everyone?

Not every who bought an 8800 GTS got a free game, and there some people do play their gaming PC on their HD TV sets.

This is simply fanboy ignorance.

I am not going to argue with anything else as that's just opinion.However i am going to leave you with a fact and that is that the 640GTS beats any single ATI card.I have given enough proof and this is my last.And this is using new drivers where the 640MB GTS comfortably beats the 3870.

Thinker

...you have as much credibility as Paris Hilton saying she's a virgin.

Can you at least use reputable sites to support your arguments? I wonder why you avoid sites such as anandtech, techreport, xbitlabs, beyond3d and etc...

And BTW the 640GTS loses to the 3870 in 3dmark but wins in the majority of games.So much for your real world performance.

Thinker

Link?

From a reliable source please.

Also, I don't see an issue with the HD3870 outperforming the 8800 GTS in 3DMark06. The HD3870 manages to keep up or outperform the HD2900 XT, which in turn managed to keep up or outperform the 8800 GTS.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce_8800_gts_512mb_review_bfg/479/13/

Jesus Thinker,maybe YOU use AA with high-end cards,maybe your friends do,but not everyone does you know,i can find you PLENTY of people who use high-end hardware without AA,even if i got say,a Free Corsair VX450W and HD 3870 512MB,i STILL wouldn't use AA (At least in my more demanding games)

There just admit defeat now.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce_8800_gts_512mb_review_bfg/479/13/

Thinker_145

What is this?

You're saying that I'm wrong based on:
- Battlefield 2
- DX10 (TWIMTBP) WiC
- Stalker
- Warfront (?)
- Ghost Recon

-_-

Nice how you totally ignored the array of benchmarks I posted on the first page, or the ones I linked from techreport.com.

Thinker, I'm afraid you've lost the point that I was trying to make:

The HD3870 is not a bad card. Further, there is no "wrong choice" between the 8800 GT or HD3870. If you go with the 8800 GT, you get higher frames at a higher cost. If you go with the HD3870 you pocket some cash, amongst other bonuses.

That way we can never compare prices and thus can never compare the price/performance.:|

The MSRP of 3870 is $220 and 8800GT is $250.Both have seen fluctuations in their prices but the relative difference has remained the same.

Thinker_145

The difference between an 8800 GT and HD3870 when I bought my card was $60-70 Australian (around $50-55 USD), which was why I mentioned the global factor.

But you do have a good point, as I did raise the MSRP issue a few posts ago.

Very well, we will assume that the difference is $30.

You talk about price/performance so much why would you even let dual cards enter your mind.Contradictions much?

Thinker

Now this is the whole "x statistic applied to all cases" problem you have.

I have an X38 based motherboard, and ATi cards are quite cheap. Why can't I go CrossFire?

Did I even mention CrossFire in my first post? No. Also, you're lucky that I didn't bother turning this into a HD3870 CrossFire vs 8800 GT SLi debate, as CrossFire HD3870 is not only cheaper, but faster than 8800 GT SLi as well.

We are talking about cost effectiveness here, so I'm not going to turn this into a multi GPU debate.

Anyways to bring in the situation of owning an SLI or CF borad is just grasping for straws.And if you have a CF board then you must have a beeferer PSU as well which furthur destorys your argument of price/performance.

Thinker

I believe you're the one grasping for straws, Thinker. You're using the whole "take x statistic, apply to entire set" approach again.

I said that I have an X38 board, which weighed in heavily as to why I chose a HD3870 over an 8800 GT. I was talking about MYSELF, as OTHERS might think DIFFERENTLY.

I said that there could be a number of reasons depending on each person's situation.

Personal preferences will always be there,we are not to discuss that.

Thinker

...Which is what I have been saying for the past few posts! :| :| :|

Whatever is there in my sig cost me a combined total of $1500.My card was alone $480.The problem is that i live in a thrid world country and when ever a new card comes it takes anywhere from 3-6 months to come here and then there is something better on the horizon when it actually comes so i cant really help this and GPU prices will mostly never fall to what their original prices were.And ya i will spend more money on my gaming like right now i am thinking about the average sound quality of my setup.Point is i will continue to spend(as long as i am able to) to make my gaming experience better and it will go into the thousands ofcourse.

Thinker

It is unfortunate that you are in that situation, and I wish you good luck in your future hardware purchases. One tip I can give you is to shop on ebay with a PayPal account, looking for international sellers. You will save a huge load of money.

But you missed my entirely--I said that if someone spent thousands on their rig (and remember, we're using US prices) then I don't think they'll be considering either the 8800 GT or HD3870.

Considering the MSRP of both cards(and the prices at newegg basically) and completely ignoring any dual cardmentality,yes an anthusiast gamer made a very stupid decision in buying the 3870.

Thinker

That is your opinion that dozens of hardware editorials would contest against.

Dont get me wrong the 3870 is a fantastic card and should satisfy any gamer but the thing is that the substitutes currently are just a far better option.Look at the new GTS,available at $280 after rebate at newegg,for me that renders the 8800GT pretty useless so dont think that i am a fanboy or something.

Thinker

Some people don't have a access to a $280 US 8800 GTS G92 from newegg, such as you and I.

I provided benches proving that the price difference between the 8800 GT and HD3870 is accurate enough to justify the performance difference between the two cards. Either way, you can't lose.

The whole point of this thread was to show that the HD3870's price justifies its performance, and that it competes with the 8800 GT in terms of performance/price.

When I orginally purchased my HD 3870 it cost me new a total of $180 with rebates, and a game to go with it (Quake Wars). On top of that since I sometimes play on a 32" Visio using HDMI. The card ended up being a great value including the fact I was able to purchase an additional 2 GB of RAM for my PC to go with it.

I won't slam those who go with the 8800GT, but in my case the 3870 was clearly the best buy, not only perfomance wise, but in comparision to the timeframe when I purchased my card the 8800 GT was still running around $270. The price point just couldn't have been denied.

[QUOTE="Wesker776"]

Are you trying to tell me that across the whole globe, the price difference between an 8800 GT and a HD3870 is only $30 USD?

Why do you take one statistic and apply it uniformly to everything?

I said that that with either the HD3870 or 8800 GT, you can't lose. Some go with the HD3870 because they have a CrossFire capable motherboard (e.g. me), some buy it because it's cheaper than the 8800 GT (the difference is never concrete) while some buy the 8800 GT because they want the extra performance. Some people may even buy the HD3870 because they have their PC connected to their HDTV sets, and don't want to deal with cable mess. Heck, some may even want a more silent PC in which case they aim for a HD3870 or 8800 GTS G92 (dual slot silent fans)... There's a number of reasons why someone would want either card over the other.

Also, did you spend thousands on your rig? :| If someone is spending thousands on a PC, I don't think they'll be aiming at the HD3870 or 8800 GT...

Finally, are you trying to say that enthusiasts who bought the HD3870 aren't serious gamers?

Thinker_145

The MSRP of 3870 is $220 and 8800GT is $250.Both have seen fluctuations in their prices but the relative difference has remained the same.

You talk about price/performance so much why would you even let dual cards enter your mind.Contradictions much?

Anyways to bring in the situation of owning an SLI or CF borad is just grasping for straws.And if you have a CF board then you must have a beeferer PSU as well which furthur destorys your argument of price/performance.

Personal preferences will always be there,we are not to discuss that.

Whatever is there in my sig cost me a combined total of $1500.My card was alone $480.The problem is that i live in a thrid world country and when ever a new card comes it takes anywhere from 3-6 months to come here and then there is something better on the horizon when it actually comes so i cant really help this and GPU prices will mostly never fall to what their original prices were.And ya i will spend more money on my gaming like right now i am thinking about the average sound quality of my setup.Point is i will continue to spend(as long as i am able to) to make my gaming experience better and it will go into the thousands ofcourse.

Considering the MSRP of both cards(and the prices at newegg basically) and completely ignoring any dual cardmentality,yes an anthusiast gamer made a very stupid decision in buying the 3870.

Dont get me wrong the 3870 is a fantastic card and should satisfy any gamer but the thing is that the substitutes currently are just a far better option.Look at the new GTS,available at $280 after rebate at newegg,for me that renders the 8800GT pretty useless so dont think that i am a fanboy or something.

Thinker are you in the u.k.? Your writing reads like a native, im in exeter, where are you? just curious. Cheers

I thought wesker that you were a reasonable guy but it seems like you are not.You show me benchmarks when the 2900XT was launced and i show you 2 different sources of newer benchmarks "clearly" showing that the 8800GTS destroys the 2900XT.I showed you 2 reviews at the time of the 2900XT launch which say the 8800GTS as superior although it is the recent benchmarks which show a "clear" superiorty.In the guru3d review the 3870 did not beat the GTS "in a single game".The other "unreliable" review i posted shows the same story with the GTS winning on most occasions.

I want some newer benchmarks showing the 2900XT or HD3870 beating the GTS or you agree that you were wrong and the GTS is better or else you lose all credability.

I want an answer to you saying about my "ridiculous" claim of the GTS being superior to the XT.

It will be very interesting how you show denial on this.You show me techreport's 2900Xt review showing in being better.

Now i show you techreports review of the new GTS and the 640GTS beats the 2900XT in EVERY game.You lost it just lost it now.

You think drivers can only increase performance of ATI's cards.LOL.

It will be very interesting how you show denial on this.You show me techreport's 2900Xt review showing in being better.

Now i show you techreports review of the new GTS and the 640GTS beats the 2900XT in EVERY game.You lost it just lost it now.

You think drivers can only increase performance of ATI's cards.LOL.

Thinker_145

[QUOTE="Thinker_145"]

It will be very interesting how you show denial on this.You show me techreport's 2900Xt review showing in being better.

Now i show you techreports review of the new GTS and the 640GTS beats the 2900XT in EVERY game.You lost it just lost it now.

You think drivers can only increase performance of ATI's cards.LOL.

lettuceman44

Not to mention the fact that many games are built with nVIDIA's TWIMTBP program in mind. Sort of like how many games in the past year have been built first for and on the Xbox 360 then been ported over the PS3. It's a very rough comparison but it makes sense.

Plus, why are we comparing the 2900XT anyways, why not the HD3870 since that's AMD/ATI's high end card?

Yes Thinker, drivers are the main way AMD/ATI cards crank up their performance. It's simply due to software interactions with the hardware. You've said it yourself, IIRC, that nVIDIA is better for games, but AMD/ATI is better for benchmarking.

Well if we all look at what the benchmarking uses to get it's stats, then clearly, AMD/ATI is a better piece of hardware in terms of GPU. The issues are with games because of how those games are programmed and how they work with drivers. Clearly nVIDIA has a leg up on the competition in this because of the fact that varying degrees of their TWIMTBP program is implimented in so many games.

This is some of the worst case of cherry picking I have ever seen. :|

If you want to continue shooting yourself in the foot, take a look another full benchmark suite:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/diamond-viper-hd2900xt-1024mb_7.html#sect0

The HD2900 XT outperforms the 8800 GTS across the board, minus a few games.

Want to keep going?

Jesus Thinker,maybe YOU use AA with high-end cards,maybe your friends do,but not everyone does you know,i can find you PLENTY of people who use high-end hardware without AA,even if i got say,a Free Corsair VX450W and HD 3870 512MB,i STILL wouldn't use AA (At least in my more demanding games)

Indestructible2

I don't get it...

Why whould someone purchase a high end card then...I mean if the features is there why not use it when your card is able too?

[QUOTE="Indestructible2"]

Jesus Thinker,maybe YOU use AA with high-end cards,maybe your friends do,but not everyone does you know,i can find you PLENTY of people who use high-end hardware without AA,even if i got say,a Free Corsair VX450W and HD 3870 512MB,i STILL wouldn't use AA (At least in my more demanding games)

Bebi_vegeta

I don't get it...

Why whould someone purchase a high end card then...I mean if the features is there why not use it when your card is able too?

[QUOTE="Indestructible2"]

Jesus Thinker,maybe YOU use AA with high-end cards,maybe your friends do,but not everyone does you know,i can find you PLENTY of people who use high-end hardware without AA,even if i got say,a Free Corsair VX450W and HD 3870 512MB,i STILL wouldn't use AA (At least in my more demanding games)

Bebi_vegeta

I don't get it...

Why whould someone purchase a high end card then...I mean if the features is there why not use it when your card is able too?

[QUOTE="Bebi_vegeta"][QUOTE="Indestructible2"]

Jesus Thinker,maybe YOU use AA with high-end cards,maybe your friends do,but not everyone does you know,i can find you PLENTY of people who use high-end hardware without AA,even if i got say,a Free Corsair VX450W and HD 3870 512MB,i STILL wouldn't use AA (At least in my more demanding games)

9mmSpliff

I don't get it...

Why whould someone purchase a high end card then...I mean if the features is there why not use it when your card is able too?

Exaclty, i'm also playing @ 1920x1200 and if I can acheive good frame rate with AA why not put it?