Audiophile / Hi-Fi discussion with my old man

Hey guys so I remember the days when I used to live with my dad (about 11+ years ago) I remember he used to always the sorta "I have the biggest TV, so lets watch the football game at my place" person.

the TV in our living room (no joke) weighed about ~300kg. It was a Sony and it took 6 men to carry it into our house. I was only a child but that TV was many, many times wider and tall than my self.

And remember it was a HUGE Sony CRT. (possibly 50+ inches?) I know that a tiny 34" can be 100kg... meaning a 60+ incher could easily weigh 400.

He also had a jukebox which could fit dozens of CDs on top and would pick random songs from a random CD... very hi-fi grade.

But other than that I don't remember what else he had.

Recently I've taken an interest in hi-fi and high end AV equipment and he told me about his "setup" from before

his setup was:

* Bowers & Wilkins Nautilus' in front

* Bowers & Wilkins 205 rear

and then some copy pasta cause I don't quite know about these:

Kevlar fibreglass woofers

Solid silver dome tweeters

"They could handle 4000 watts!!!"

Front channels running 600 watts rms

Drawing 32 amps of current

bridged monoblock amps... 1 seperate amp for each speaker hee hee

Amps were handmade... Yes handmade in Canada (!)

A so called Bryston

Out of those I've only really heard of the B&W Nautilius.. Those are definitely well known.

After some discussion we've decided that I'm going to get a home cinema for my birthday this summer :) (receiver/amp/B&W speaker setup!!!!!)

Also the car he drives is a Jaguar XF, which comes with a 600w Bowers & Wilkins system built in :)

Hears for hoping for a decent cinema in a few months! 8)

Currently an ashamed user of Logitech headset and Logitech 5.1s. I have no TV, I use my Samsung XL2370 for everything.

I have enough money of my own to buy an HDTV (looking at Panasonic V20, Samsung PNC7000 though the new GT30 looks incredibly good) and might get a pair of AKG K702 headphones as they can be found as cheaply as £210

SO can't wait to throw away (

Watts mean nothing. You want high fidelity at a given DB level, nothing more. If you want house shaking bass, there is a type of subwoofer design called the tuba HT. It can be built for under $400 and go as low as 10hz. http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/THT.html.

As for everything else, some good brands are polk and klipsch (avoid bose).

Watts mean nothing. You want high fidelity at a given DB level, nothing more. If you want house shaking bass, there is a type of subwoofer design called the tuba HT. It can be built for under $400 and go as low as 10hz.

As for everything else, some good brands are polk and klipsch (avoid bose).

6_Dead_360s

That being said: when Samsung claims their HTiB has 1000W = BS

When Kipnis claims his Snell THX cinema can do 65,000W = true...

And I know Klipsch is really good and Bose is trash. Polk is meh.

[QUOTE="6_Dead_360s"]

Watts mean nothing. You want high fidelity at a given DB level, nothing more. If you want house shaking bass, there is a type of subwoofer design called the tuba HT. It can be built for under $400 and go as low as 10hz.

As for everything else, some good brands are polk and klipsch (avoid bose).

Mozelleple112

That being said: when Samsung claims their HTiB has 1000W = BS

When Kipnis claims his Snell THX cinema can do 65,000W = true...

And I know Klipsch is really good and Bose is trash. Polk is meh.

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"]

[QUOTE="6_Dead_360s"]

Watts mean nothing. You want high fidelity at a given DB level, nothing more. If you want house shaking bass, there is a type of subwoofer design called the tuba HT. It can be built for under $400 and go as low as 10hz.

As for everything else, some good brands are polk and klipsch (avoid bose).

NVIDIATI

That being said: when Samsung claims their HTiB has 1000W = BS

When Kipnis claims his Snell THX cinema can do 65,000W = true...

And I know Klipsch is really good and Bose is trash. Polk is meh.

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"] Watts mean nothing? /facepalm. Its like a contrast ratio on a TV. YES: Manufacturers, shops and sellers will lie about the contrast ratio and give you a bogus number like 1 million:1 or 5M:1 while the real number is only 500:1 or 2000:1 or 5000:1 if its a Kuro ;) YES: Contrast ratio is the most important part of a TV. the true contrast ratio is what separates a good picture from a poor one.

That being said: when Samsung claims their HTiB has 1000W = BS

When Kipnis claims his Snell THX cinema can do 65,000W = true...

And I know Klipsch is really good and Bose is trash. Polk is meh.

Mozelleple112

Its not that watts mean nothing, its just that they are not the only thing that matters. Example 2 different guitar amps with Identical wattage and lets say Identical Tubes as well... They can sound completely different...

And a tv/monitor Contrast isn't always the most important part of a TV.. What about response time (if your image is too slow and blurry during motion, what does it matter that Contrast is, because you will only get to enjoy the full potential of the contrast, if its on a static image)

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"][QUOTE="NVIDIATI"] I don't think that's what he was getting at.

Lach0121

Its not that watts mean nothing, its just that they are not the only thing that matters. Example 2 different guitar amps with Identical wattage and lets say Identical Tubes as well... They can sound completely different...

And a tv/monitor Contrast isn't always the most important part of a TV.. What about response time (if your image is too slow and blurry during motion, what does it matter that Contrast is, because you will only get to enjoy the full potential of the contrast, if its on a static image)

[QUOTE="Lach0121"]

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"] He said watts mean nothing. So I guess my logitech 15w speakers sound just like my dads 4000w speakers ? :PMozelleple112

Its not that watts mean nothing, its just that they are not the only thing that matters. Example 2 different guitar amps with Identical wattage and lets say Identical Tubes as well... They can sound completely different...

And a tv/monitor Contrast isn't always the most important part of a TV.. What about response time (if your image is too slow and blurry during motion, what does it matter that Contrast is, because you will only get to enjoy the full potential of the contrast, if its on a static image)

On a side note you should consider some DIY if you want the best value and performance. While B&W does make great speakers, their prices are almost always at the top, most of the time its just not worth it.

You really can't knock B&W. Home made stuff could be good, but I think it would be very difficult to make a home made speaker as good as the Nautilus. There are many other very good speakers available like Paradigm Reference, Atlantic Tech, etc that may be slight;y less/more so have fun auditioning! Bryston amps are also very good as are Classe, Krell, Anthem and Aragon.rastan

Last time I checked he was interested in the entry B&W set, the 685. So not exactly in the Natilus, or Paradigm Reference price range. The Paradigm Monitor series might be a good start. Though when it comes down to an amp I would go with Emotiva, some great value. Also I wouldn't leave DIY out just yet, there are loads of great speaker builds, and he might even learn a bit more about his new hobby.

Getting a little off topic your post reminded me of this DIY project:

ScanSpeak tweeter / Seas mid + woofer:

the TV in our living room (no joke) weighed about ~300kg. It was a Sony and it took 6 men to carry it into our house. I was only a child but that TV was many, many times wider and tall than my self.

And remember it was a HUGE Sony CRT. (possibly 50+ inches?) I know that a tiny 34" can be 100kg... meaning a 60+ incher could easily weigh 400.Mozelleple112

Your father definitely has great taste. E3 has - or it used to, anyway - a section on the other side of Vegas just for Audiophiles from small companies; all hand-crafted stuff for wealthy buyers. It was all quite impressive, with solid tin leads and beautiful wood finish on gigantic speakers with horn-loaded tweeters. They'd be playing some jazz from a high-end record player. I can't remember all the names because there were a lot of very small companies, but Bryston sounds right.

Us mere mortals with budgets have to stick with mid-range commercial products, but I would have loved to hear your father's setup. The best I can probably hope for is to eventually build something myself with pieces from Parts Express. :lol:

Thanks for sharing,

Boz

The best I can probably hope for is to eventually build something myself with pieces from Parts Express. :lol:

Bozanimal

[QUOTE="rastan"]You really can't knock B&W. Home made stuff could be good, but I think it would be very difficult to make a home made speaker as good as the Nautilus. There are many other very good speakers available like Paradigm Reference, Atlantic Tech, etc that may be slight;y less/more so have fun auditioning! Bryston amps are also very good as are Classe, Krell, Anthem and Aragon.NVIDIATI

Last time I checked he was interested in the entry B&W set, the 685. So not exactly in the Natilus, or Paradigm Reference price range. The Paradigm Monitor series might be a good start. Though when it comes down to an amp I would go with Emotiva, some great value. Also I wouldn't leave DIY out just yet, there are loads of great speaker builds, and he might even learn a bit more about his new hobby.

Getting a little off topic your post reminded me of this DIY project:

ScanSpeak tweeter / Seas mid + woofer:

Nautilus to a Denon soundbar?! :? Also I thought you said he had KEF eggs, and a VT25?

Anyways...

Nautilus to a Denon soundbar?! :? Also I thought you said he had KEF eggs, and a VT25?

Anyways...

NVIDIATI

I've played on the VT25 when I visited (got a PS3 there) and used the 5.1 KEFs and they do sound amazing.

Also when I was in Dubai this xmas was one I discovered the beauty of DTS when I watched blu-rays and found the 'audio button' that turns it to DTS ;) even a soundbar blew me away lol :P

And about the Nautilus to the soundbar... I guess he grew up / out of it, got a new wife, sold the system and went for abit more sleek design on the audio hardware. I guess turning 40 does that to you 8)

I think if my dad were to buy any more B&W products it would be the Zeppelin or P5's or those silly MM-1's :(

[QUOTE="rastan"]You really can't knock B&W. Home made stuff could be good, but I think it would be very difficult to make a home made speaker as good as the Nautilus. There are many other very good speakers available like Paradigm Reference, Atlantic Tech, etc that may be slight;y less/more so have fun auditioning! Bryston amps are also very good as are Classe, Krell, Anthem and Aragon.NVIDIATI

Last time I checked he was interested in the entry B&W set, the 685. So not exactly in the Natilus, or Paradigm Reference price range. The Paradigm Monitor series might be a good start. Though when it comes down to an amp I would go with Emotiva, some great value. Also I wouldn't leave DIY out just yet, there are loads of great speaker builds, and he might even learn a bit more about his new hobby.

Getting a little off topic your post reminded me of this DIY project:

ScanSpeak tweeter / Seas mid + woofer:

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="rastan"]You really can't knock B&W. Home made stuff could be good, but I think it would be very difficult to make a home made speaker as good as the Nautilus. There are many other very good speakers available like Paradigm Reference, Atlantic Tech, etc that may be slight;y less/more so have fun auditioning! Bryston amps are also very good as are Classe, Krell, Anthem and Aragon.Mozelleple112

Last time I checked he was interested in the entry B&W set, the 685. So not exactly in the Natilus, or Paradigm Reference price range. The Paradigm Monitor series might be a good start. Though when it comes down to an amp I would go with Emotiva, some great value. Also I wouldn't leave DIY out just yet, there are loads of great speaker builds, and he might even learn a bit more about his new hobby.

Getting a little off topic your post reminded me of this DIY project:

ScanSpeak tweeter / Seas mid + woofer:

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"]

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

Last time I checked he was interested in the entry B&W set, the 685. So not exactly in the Natilus, or Paradigm Reference price range. The Paradigm Monitor series might be a good start. Though when it comes down to an amp I would go with Emotiva, some great value. Also I wouldn't leave DIY out just yet, there are loads of great speaker builds, and he might even learn a bit more about his new hobby.

Getting a little off topic your post reminded me of this DIY project:

ScanSpeak tweeter / Seas mid + woofer:

NVIDIATI

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"] Holy ugly looking speakers batman! I don't care how good they sound, even if they'd beat the B&W 800s I'd still not pay more than a grand for them lol :?

[QUOTE="rastan"]You really can't knock B&W. Home made stuff could be good, but I think it would be very difficult to make a home made speaker as good as the Nautilus. There are many other very good speakers available like Paradigm Reference, Atlantic Tech, etc that may be slight;y less/more so have fun auditioning! Bryston amps are also very good as are Classe, Krell, Anthem and Aragon.NVIDIATI

Last time I checked he was interested in the entry B&W set, the 685. So not exactly in the Natilus, or Paradigm Reference price range. The Paradigm Monitor series might be a good start. Though when it comes down to an amp I would go with Emotiva, some great value. Also I wouldn't leave DIY out just yet, there are loads of great speaker builds, and he might even learn a bit more about his new hobby.

Getting a little off topic your post reminded me of this DIY project:

ScanSpeak tweeter / Seas mid + woofer:

[QUOTE="rastan"]You really can't knock B&W. Home made stuff could be good, but I think it would be very difficult to make a home made speaker as good as the Nautilus. There are many other very good speakers available like Paradigm Reference, Atlantic Tech, etc that may be slight;y less/more so have fun auditioning! Bryston amps are also very good as are Classe, Krell, Anthem and Aragon.NVIDIATI

Last time I checked he was interested in the entry B&W set, the 685. So not exactly in the Natilus, or Paradigm Reference price range. The Paradigm Monitor series might be a good start. Though when it comes down to an amp I would go with Emotiva, some great value. Also I wouldn't leave DIY out just yet, there are loads of great speaker builds, and he might even learn a bit more about his new hobby.

Getting a little off topic your post reminded me of this DIY project:

ScanSpeak tweeter / Seas mid + woofer:

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="rastan"]You really can't knock B&W. Home made stuff could be good, but I think it would be very difficult to make a home made speaker as good as the Nautilus. There are many other very good speakers available like Paradigm Reference, Atlantic Tech, etc that may be slight;y less/more so have fun auditioning! Bryston amps are also very good as are Classe, Krell, Anthem and Aragon.PS2_ROCKS

Last time I checked he was interested in the entry B&W set, the 685. So not exactly in the Natilus, or Paradigm Reference price range. The Paradigm Monitor series might be a good start. Though when it comes down to an amp I would go with Emotiva, some great value. Also I wouldn't leave DIY out just yet, there are loads of great speaker builds, and he might even learn a bit more about his new hobby.

Getting a little off topic your post reminded me of this DIY project:

ScanSpeak tweeter / Seas mid + woofer:

[QUOTE="PS2_ROCKS"]

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

Last time I checked he was interested in the entry B&W set, the 685. So not exactly in the Natilus, or Paradigm Reference price range. The Paradigm Monitor series might be a good start. Though when it comes down to an amp I would go with Emotiva, some great value. Also I wouldn't leave DIY out just yet, there are loads of great speaker builds, and he might even learn a bit more about his new hobby.

Getting a little off topic your post reminded me of this DIY project:

ScanSpeak tweeter / Seas mid + woofer:

NVIDIATI

Once I find another job Imma buy myself a pair of those Thor speakers you mentioned earlier. The name alone makes me want them :D For the price they better be badass. Might have to consider getting a pair of Lokis or better bookshelves instead if I cannot find room for a pair of floorstanders.

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="PS2_ROCKS"] I wonder if he chose that tweeter because it was the most expensive one on PartsExpress...could definitely get some better value for the money. Nice speakers though, that guy has some serious talent.

ChubbyGuy40

Once I find another job Imma buy myself a pair of those Thor speakers you mentioned earlier. The name alone makes me want them :D For the price they better be badass. Might have to consider getting a pair of Lokis or better bookshelves instead if I cannot find room for a pair of floorstanders.

as a stepping stone to prep me for my final goalNVIDIATI

Don't I know it. Had a nice theater in the family room, upgraded everything so now I have a surround sound setup in the bedroom, then I built a theater in the basement with all new gear, and now I want a new house so I can build a bigger and better theater:-)rastan

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]as a stepping stone to prep me for my final goalX360PS3AMD05

Orion+ on the left, 800d on the right:

Watts mean nothing. You want high fidelity at a given DB level, nothing more. If you want house shaking bass, there is a type of subwoofer design called the tuba HT. It can be built for under $400 and go as low as 10hz.

As for everything else, some good brands are polk and klipsch (avoid bose).

6_Dead_360s

If he had the money for B&W Nautilus I guarantee you he had some dam good amps.

[QUOTE="6_Dead_360s"]

Watts mean nothing. You want high fidelity at a given DB level, nothing more. If you want house shaking bass, there is a type of subwoofer design called the tuba HT. It can be built for under $400 and go as low as 10hz.

As for everything else, some good brands are polk and klipsch (avoid bose).

Marka1700

If he had the money for B&W Nautilus I guarantee you he had some dam good amps.

Would love to hear something like that one day.Marka1700

[QUOTE="Marka1700"]Would love to hear something like that one day.NVIDIATI

All I have around me is a Best Buy :cry:

No one knows how to operate or setup the damn equipment and everytime I try to fix it they tell me to leave it alone, they'll fetch someone...who doesn't know how to fix it and just kinda stands there until their supervisor isn't looking and leaves.

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="Marka1700"]Would love to hear something like that one day.ChubbyGuy40

All I have around me is a Best Buy :cry:

No one knows how to operate or setup the damn equipment and everytime I try to fix it they tell me to leave it alone, they'll fetch someone...who doesn't know how to fix it and just kinda stands there until their supervisor isn't looking and leaves.

[QUOTE="Marka1700"]Would love to hear something like that one day.NVIDIATI

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="Marka1700"]Would love to hear something like that one day.Marka1700

@Mozelleple112 I just realised, if you're in Norway why are you not looking into Seas!? I'd imagine any kit/pre-built would sell for a low price considering Seas drivers are made in Norway. You're wasting all this time with B&W when you have some of the best right in your own backyard.

@Mozelleple112 I just realised, if you're in Norway why are you not looking into Seas!? I'd imagine any kit/pre-built would sell for a low price considering Seas drivers are made in Norway. You're wasting all this time with B&W when you have some of the best right in your own backyard.

NVIDIATI

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

@Mozelleple112 I just realised, if you're in Norway why are you not looking into Seas!? I'd imagine any kit/pre-built would sell for a low price considering Seas drivers are made in Norway. You're wasting all this time with B&W when you have some of the best right in your own backyard.

Mozelleple112

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"][QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

@Mozelleple112 I just realised, if you're in Norway why are you not looking into Seas!? I'd imagine any kit/pre-built would sell for a low price considering Seas drivers are made in Norway. You're wasting all this time with B&W when you have some of the best right in your own backyard.

NVIDIATI

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"] I wouldn't say Seas is on B&W's level.. lol. I've NEVER heard any Norwegian use or talk about them... Abrahamsen is Norwegian and makes high end amps, I know a few who own those... But Klipsch/B&W/SVS/Swans seem to be the most popular speakers..Mozelleple112

Tyler Acoustics, Linkwitz, Joseph Audio, etc+ their drivers are used in loads of DIY projects.

Seas has a few different lines of drivers, the Excel is their top of the line, Prestige is their budget line, Exotic is similar to Excel (though in some ways better), and Lotus is for in car audio.

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

@Mozelleple112 I just realised, if you're in Norway why are you not looking into Seas!? I'd imagine any kit/pre-built would sell for a low price considering Seas drivers are made in Norway. You're wasting all this time with B&W when you have some of the best right in your own backyard.

Mozelleple112

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"][QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

@Mozelleple112 I just realised, if you're in Norway why are you not looking into Seas!? I'd imagine any kit/pre-built would sell for a low price considering Seas drivers are made in Norway. You're wasting all this time with B&W when you have some of the best right in your own backyard.

PS2_ROCKS

Also whenever there's a poll its usually a Bowers & Wilkins or Klipsch product that wins (For example Diamond 800 vs Dali Megaline).. These are not random people either, they're all dedicated hi-fi / AV enthusiasts. In their world NvidiaAti is just another poster (:

[QUOTE="PS2_ROCKS"]

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"] I wouldn't say Seas is on B&W's level.. lol. I've NEVER heard any Norwegian use or talk about them... Abrahamsen is Norwegian and makes high end amps, I know a few who own those... But Klipsch/B&W/SVS/Swans seem to be the most popular speakers..Mozelleple112

Also whenever there's a poll its usually a Bowers & Wilkins or Klipsch product that wins (For example Diamond 800 vs Dali Megaline).. These are not random people either, they're all dedicated hi-fi / AV enthusiasts. In their world NvidiaAti is just another poster (:

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"]

[QUOTE="PS2_ROCKS"] Most popular doesn't mean best. There are speakers considered to be better than B&W but at the end of the day it pretty much comes down to preference. Aesthetics, size, cost, and most important sound. Does speaker A or speaker B sound better to you? Forget what other people or the brochure say.

NVIDIATI

Also whenever there's a poll its usually a Bowers & Wilkins or Klipsch product that wins (For example Diamond 800 vs Dali Megaline).. These are not random people either, they're all dedicated hi-fi / AV enthusiasts. In their world NvidiaAti is just another poster (:

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"] Well this is coming from Norway's top AV enthusiast forum. $2500 is even considered "budget headphone setup there" ... Earlier today I read a thread title "Need cheap headphone solution" And in the OP he says something like "Not got a lot to spend as I'm only a student, currently got Denon AVR4310, what's a good headphone + amp setup? Nothing over $2500 please" Pioneer Kuro is the definitive TV of choice down there... Klipsch and B&W dominate the speaker section most having the Klipsch reference or the CM B&W but I've seen plenty of Palladium / Diamond owners...

Also whenever there's a poll its usually a Bowers & Wilkins or Klipsch product that wins (For example Diamond 800 vs Dali Megaline).. These are not random people either, they're all dedicated hi-fi / AV enthusiasts. In their world NvidiaAti is just another poster (:

Mozelleple112

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"][QUOTE="NVIDIATI"] And from what you've told us, you came to the conclusion of Seas not being up to par with B&W how?

NVIDIATI

And why isn't a popularity contest valid when its from enthusiasts? unless speakers using Seas cost like $200K there is no reason why these people who spend $5K-$50K on their home cinemes don't get them...

And even if I wanted exclusive-house priced speakers I'd go for Snell THX speakers (:

[QUOTE="NVIDIATI"]

[QUOTE="Mozelleple112"] Reviews, audiophile blogs, word-of-mouth, awards, AV enthusiasts' opinions, general consensus and the fact that many have awarded B&W speakers as the best of the best (along with other ones like Kharma / Wilson / Snell) If Seas was so good how come all these Norwegians don't use them... Norwegians are EXTREMELY patriotic, believe me. Americans are very subtle in comparison. Everything Norway makes = best, period, fact, no argument. There is no way these people would prefer Klipsch / B&W if a Norwegian company made better speakers lol.Mozelleple112

And why isn't a popularity contest valid when its from enthusiasts? unless speakers using Seas cost like $200K there is no reason why these people who spend $5K-$50K on their home cinemes don't get them...

And even if I wanted exclusive-house priced speakers I'd go for Snell THX speakers (:

Just a few examples of speakers using Seas:

Snell LCR7 XL

Snell B7 Reference

Snell A7 Reference Towers

Linkwitz Orion

Tyler Accoustics Woodmere

Tyler Acoustics Linbrook

Tyler Acoustics Decade

Seas Thor

Zaph ZA-SR71

Seas Idunn

Joseph Audio Pearl2

Snell IC-B7S

Snell IC-B7VH

Snell IC-C7S

Snell IC-C7VH

Orion and Thor...

DO WANT

Orion and Thor...

DO WANT

ChubbyGuy40