BioWare hates and censors hom0sexuality, makes an ass of itself (TOR related)

BioWare has banned users of the Knights of the Old Republic forum from discussing the subject of homosexuality.

Some threads had been set up discussing the potential issues around gay relationships within the game. The threads have since been locked, and the words "homosexual", "lesbian" and gay are censored on the forum.

Even discussions of the ban are being locked. At the bottom of the thread "GLBT discrimination in forums?", community manager Sean Dahlberg wrote, "As I have stated before, these are terms that do not exist in Star Wars. Thread closed."

You sure about all this, Sean? Only there was a lesbian character in one of BioWare's very own games, according to GayGamer.net.

Since this news was posted on Eurogamer, they reopened the thread:lol:

Epic fail.

sauce

One reason I could see closing the threads would be to keep out potential bashing & flaming.

That aside, I do find it a bit odd, considering if you're running a female Commander Shepard in Mass Effect, you could choose a romance with Liara.

Seems a bit heavy handed for Bioware

I think you have to take kids into account. Around 90% of the world's parents teach their kids that homosexuality is immoral/unnatural. Not just religious people either - Charles Darwin said that evolution would eventually put an end to homosexuality, since it provides no benefit to the species, and would actually be harmful if it ever grew beyond the 2% rate . Born_Lucky

And around 90% of all percentages are made up

[QUOTE="Born_Lucky"]I think you have to take kids into account. Around 90% of the world's parents teach their kids that homosexuality is immoral/unnatural. Not just religious people either - Charles Darwin said that evolution would eventually put an end to homosexuality, since it provides no benefit to the species, and would actually be harmful if it ever grew beyond the 2% rate . Fandangle

And around 90% of all percentages are made up

hehehe comment of the day for me +1

One reason I could see closing the threads would be to keep out potential bashing & flaming.

That aside, I do find it a bit odd, considering if you're running a female Commander Shepard in Mass Effect, you could choose a romance with Liara.

topsemag55

It's a video game forum, that kind of stuff doesn't need to be discussed there and they obviously don't want it on their site. It's also their forum, and they make up the rules. Nice that they opened it again, but they didn't have to nor do they have to justify closing it down in the first place.

Hey, its their website.

It's a video game forum, that kind of stuff doesn't need to be discussed there and they obviously don't want it on their site. It's also their forum, and they make up the rules. Nice that they opened it again, but they didn't have to nor do they have to justify closing it down in the first place.

dnuggs40

Bioware makes their games their way, if they don't want to put homo stuff in there, good. If they don't want people to talk about it in their game's forums, good. If you believe they should change that based on your moral/political views, send them a letter.LTZH

Please explain what's wrong in discussing potential homosexual characters and relations in a story-heavy game.

Instead of saying "well we haven't planned such a character", they:

- ban people discussing this

- ban the words from their forum (they allowed them earlier this day, after the Eurogamer post); why the hell does Gamespot ban them from the thread titles anyway?

- close the threads

- claim that homosexuality doesn't exist in the Star Wars universe, despite the fact that KOTOR featured such a character

I'm not gay but this stuff is 100% stupid.

You discourage flaming by keeping an eye on the thread and having a mod post something to make everybody know this, not by censoring.

It's not, it's a video game forum and a large portion of their players are kids. It's their discretion that those types of conversations are inappropriate and against the nature of their forum. If they eventually reconsidered, good on them, but they don't have to.

Its pretty obvious that they are trying to discourage/prevent the the whole flamefest thats usually results from such topics and not really related to Biowares stance regarding sexuality.

As usual, the PC crowd are over-reacting over nothing. mirgamer

This too. The pc gaming community has some of the most over-reactional people on the face of the planet. Everything is stupid, dumb, trash, ect ect ect. All developers are liars and cheats, and are out to steal our money. And they are also out to "censor" us and infringe on our liberties lol.

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

It's a video game forum, that kind of stuff doesn't need to be discussed there and they obviously don't want it on their site. It's also their forum, and they make up the rules. Nice that they opened it again, but they didn't have to nor do they have to justify closing it down in the first place.

Baranga

Bioware makes their games their way, if they don't want to put homo stuff in there, good. If they don't want people to talk about it in their game's forums, good. If you believe they should change that based on your moral/political views, send them a letter.LTZH

Please explain what's wrong in discussing potential homosexual characters and relations in a story-heavy game.

Instead of saying "well we haven't planned such a character", they:

- ban people discussing this

- ban the words from their forum (they allowed them earlier this day, after the Eurogamer post); why the hell does Gamespot ban them from the thread titles anyway?

- close the threads

- claim that homosexuality doesn't exist in the Star Wars universe, despite the fact that KOTOR featured such a character

I'm not gay but this stuff is 100% stupid.

people play games to get away from real life for a few hours, to enter another world.

Most people are heterosexual, and even if they support same-sex rights, they might find all this crap in the news and society a little tiring at times.If their release is video gaming, they dont want to be reminded of it, especially in something epic-yet-light-hearted as Star Wars.

So, while I understand why they want to mod their forums, I find their actions a bit excessive. They should not have banned people, they should have just made the policy.

And no, KOTOR did not have a gay character. Why cant someone love someone of the same sex like a sister or brother? Did that thought ever occur to gaygamer website? No, because they likely grasp for any straw even hinting at the possibility of homosexuality.

I will say this though: does anyone find it ironic that in Mass Effect, as a female character, you could hookup with another "female" character? Yes, I know the Asari are made up of a single sex, but the simple fact is that it looked and was girl-on-girl action.

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

[QUOTE="dnuggs40"]

[QUOTE="LTZH"]Bioware makes their games their way, if they don't want to put homo stuff in there, good. If they don't want people to talk about it in their game's forums, good. If you believe they should change that based on your moral/political views, send them a letter.mrbojangles25

Please explain what's wrong in discussing potential homosexual characters and relations in a story-heavy game.

Instead of saying "well we haven't planned such a character", they:

- ban people discussing this

- ban the words from their forum (they allowed them earlier this day, after the Eurogamer post); why the hell does Gamespot ban them from the thread titles anyway?

- close the threads

- claim that homosexuality doesn't exist in the Star Wars universe, despite the fact that KOTOR featured such a character

I'm not gay but this stuff is 100% stupid.

people play games to get away from real life for a few hours, to enter another world.

Most people are heterosexual, and even if they support same-sex rights, they might find all this crap in the news and society a little tiring at times.If their release is video gaming, they dont want to be reminded of it, especially in something epic-yet-light-hearted as Star Wars.

So, while I understand why they want to mod their forums, I find their actions a bit excessive. They should not have banned people, they should have just made the policy.

And no, KOTOR did not have a gay character. Why cant someone love someone of the same sex like a sister or brother? Did that thought ever occur to gaygamer website? No, because they likely grasp for any straw even hinting at the possibility of homosexuality.

I will say this though: does anyone find it ironic that in Mass Effect, as a female character, you could hookup with another "female" character? Yes, I know the Asari are made up of a single sex, but the simple fact is that it looked and was girl-on-girl action.

They are just trying to stop bringing the whole gay arguments into their boards. It can get rather nasty.

Listen to Bojangles and Dnuggs........It's Biowares forum...their rules....And it's a game forum...Like this is supposed to be...!!:roll:

This is all bull****,BioWare has always made great games,big deal if they locked a topic about homosexualism,it could be one moderator,not BioWare,in any case,BioWare ROCKS!

People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

So were different colours
And were different creeds
And different people
Have different needs
Its obvious you hate me
Though Ive done nothing wrong
Ive never even met you
So what could I have done
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
Help me understand
Help me understand

Now youre punching
And youre kicking
And youre shouting at me
And Im relying on your common decency
So far it hasnt surfaced
But Im sure it exists
It just takes a while to travel
From your head to your fist (head to your fists)
I cant understand what makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
I cant understand (people are people)
What makes a man (why should it be)
Hate another man
Help me understand...

Whether it's one mod or the policy of the forum the whole thing smacks of intolerance and fascism. Reminds me of when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said gays don't exist in Iran!

Come to the Star Wars Gay Bar

People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

So were different colours
And were different creeds
And different people
Have different needs
Its obvious you hate me
Though Ive done nothing wrong
Ive never even met you
So what could I have done
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
Help me understand
Help me understand

Now youre punching
And youre kicking
And youre shouting at me
And Im relying on your common decency
So far it hasnt surfaced
But Im sure it exists
It just takes a while to travel
From your head to your fist (head to your fists)
I cant understand what makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
I cant understand (people are people)
What makes a man (why should it be)
Hate another man
Help me understand...

GPAddict

Just because Bioware bans those words or censores that subject does not mean they're homo haters, obviously because of the lesbian scenes in Mass Effect. Mass Effect is rated M for mature, isn't Star Wars rated T for Teen? Homosexuality is not a subject for children to be playing around with in video games...Thats just my opinion and obviously Bioware's as well.

Yes, but they could have been POLITE. Is this too much to ask for? Why hit'em with the banhammer?

Because teens are not allowed to see homosexuals? What kind of crap is this?

And KOTOR had a gay character, I linked it in the first post.

Just because Bioware bans those words or censores that subject does not mean they're homo haters, obviously because of the lesbian scenes in Mass Effect. Mass Effect is rated M for mature, isn't Star Wars rated T for Teen? Homosexuality is not a subject for children to be playing around with in video games...Thats just my opinion and obviously Bioware's as well.

LordImperius

I am very liberal when it comes to social issues such as homosexuality and believe that it is primarily caused by biological factors (we're studying this right now in my anatomy class actually), but it's a touchy subject for a lot of people. There are many who still believe that homosexuality is morally "wrong" and a voluntary decision. I don't think Bioware should have censored this discussion since I'm all for freedom of speech, but I understand why they would do so. On internet forums, discussions about homosexuality almost always result in flame wars. Besides, it's their website, they can do as they please with it.

Yes, but they could have been POLITE. Is this too much to ask for? Why hit'em with the banhammer?

Because teens are not allowed to see homosexuals? What kind of crap is this?

And KOTOR had a gay character, I linked it in the first post.

Baranga

Good, their is nothing to like about it.

...

[QUOTE="GPAddict"]

People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

So were different colours
And were different creeds
And different people
Have different needs
Its obvious you hate me
Though Ive done nothing wrong
Ive never even met you
So what could I have done
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
Help me understand
Help me understand

Now youre punching
And youre kicking
And youre shouting at me
And Im relying on your common decency
So far it hasnt surfaced
But Im sure it exists
It just takes a while to travel
From your head to your fist (head to your fists)
I cant understand what makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
I cant understand (people are people)
What makes a man (why should it be)
Hate another man
Help me understand...

OoSuperMarioO

Bioware can do whatever they want. It's their forums and their developments.Bumzur

Sure, I'll ban all discussions about mudkips and Jews when I'll make my own forum. I mean, nothing's wrong with that, innit?

Anyway, the evil community manager apologised and removed the words from the filter list.

"My intention was not to demean anyone but simply to help promote a community that could discuss topics in a mature fashion," he wrote.

"When I first built the word filter list, I added a variety of terms to the word filter that have been used numerous times in derogatory messaging. There were some words added to the filter that should not have been."

Dahlberg went on to say there was "never any intent to limit discussion", but conceded, "I have overstepped my boundaries in my original statement and I sincerely apologise for doing so."

Fin.

And Penny Arcade made a comic strip about this:lol:

[QUOTE="OoSuperMarioO"]

[QUOTE="GPAddict"]

People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

So were different colours
And were different creeds
And different people
Have different needs
Its obvious you hate me
Though Ive done nothing wrong
Ive never even met you
So what could I have done
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
Help me understand
Help me understand

Now youre punching
And youre kicking
And youre shouting at me
And Im relying on your common decency
So far it hasnt surfaced
But Im sure it exists
It just takes a while to travel
From your head to your fist (head to your fists)
I cant understand what makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully
People are people
So why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully

I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
Help me understand
I cant understand
What makes a man
Hate another man
I cant understand (people are people)
What makes a man (why should it be)
Hate another man
Help me understand...

schu

[QUOTE="Bumzur"]Bioware can do whatever they want. It's their forums and their developments.Baranga

Sure, I'll ban all discussions about mudkips and Jews when I'll make my own forum. I mean, nothing's wrong with that, innit?

Anyway, the evil community manager apologised and removed the words from the filter list.

"My intention was not to demean anyone but simply to help promote a community that could discuss topics in a mature fashion," he wrote.

"When I first built the word filter list, I added a variety of terms to the word filter that have been used numerous times in derogatory messaging. There were some words added to the filter that should not have been."

Dahlberg went on to say there was "never any intent to limit discussion", but conceded, "I have overstepped my boundaries in my original statement and I sincerely apologise for doing so."

Fin.

And Penny Arcade made a comic strip about this:lol:

[QUOTE="Bumzur"]Bioware can do whatever they want. It's their forums and their developments.Baranga

Sure, I'll ban all discussions about mudkips and Jews when I'll make my own forum. I mean, nothing's wrong with that, innit?

You go to a SW forums to talk about mudkips and Jews? :P

People should learn that internet is really srz biznes.

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

Sure, I'll ban all discussions about mudkips and Jews when I'll make my own forum. I mean, nothing's wrong with that, innit?

OoSuperMarioO

Hey, I've never heard of lesbian or bisexual being used as an insult. So their forum policy is just as wrong as my policy of banning mudkips and jews.

And about "oh it's a video game forum, such discussions don't have their place there", remember that Star Wars is not "just a video game", it's a well established and developed universe with an enormous fan base. Heck, many people say their religion is Jedi! TOR tries to capture this universe as well as it can, and the KOTOR games are part of the official canon. Seeing BioWare's past approach to sexuality in SW, and the fact that they confirmed you can develop romantic relationships with the AI partners, it's only logical that people will talk about such things. Banning them is like banning any discussion about Jews when you talk about WW2 just because it's a controversial subject.

The fact is they banned those terms completely out of context. Banning words that COULD be used in an offensive manner is stupid. Not the words are the problem, it's the people. When people use them in a derogatory fashion, punish them. Gamespot has harsh mods, System Wars is full of stupidity, but people learned their lesson and you don't see such insults, it's pretty much a PG-13 forum. Those guys over at the TOR forums didn't used these words to insult anyone when talking about this and they were banned.

Something I found regarding this little scandal...

Here is a metaphor:

A child has a toy, they enjoy it. A larger child comes and takes it from them, then enjoys beating the smaller child with it. An adult comes along and takes away the toy. Neither child is happy, but the adult gets some peace.

Here the adult seemingly tried to pre-empt the screaming match by just not giving the kids their toys.

Is this wrong? Yes, it's a cop out that does nothing to change or address the situation. The larger kid still likes beating the smaller one. Taking away the small childs favourite toy makes it seem he is being punished and merely forces the larger child to get more creative. (The small child as such starts crying and the large child starts taunting him... this metaphor is becoming more accurate than I had possibly imagined!)

What should the adult do? Seperate the children to punish the larger child, give the smaller child it's toy back, but prevent the small child from taunting the large child with it.

Can bioware do this? No. Videogame creators are not parental substitutes. The two sides of the argument may well be children though.

[QUOTE="OoSuperMarioO"]

[QUOTE="Baranga"]

Sure, I'll ban all discussions about mudkips and Jews when I'll make my own forum. I mean, nothing's wrong with that, innit?

Baranga

Hey, I've never heard of lesbian or bisexual being used as an insult. So their forum policy is just as wrong as my policy of banning mudkips and jews.

And about "oh it's a video game forum, such discussions don't have their place there", remember that Star Wars is not "just a video game", it's a well established and developed universe with an enormous fan base. Heck, many people say their religion is Jedi! TOR tries to capture this universe as well as it can, and the KOTOR games are part of the official canon. Seeing BioWare's past approach to sexuality in SW, and the fact that they confirmed you can develop romantic relationships with the AI partners, it's only logical that people will talk about such things. Banning them is like banning any discussion about Jews when you talk about WW2 just because it's a controversial subject.

The fact is they banned those terms completely out of context. Banning words that COULD be used in an offensive manner is stupid. Not the words are the problem, it's the people. When people use them in a derogatory fashion, punish them. Gamespot has harsh mods, System Wars is full of stupidity, but people learned their lesson and you don't see such insults, it's pretty much a PG-13 forum. Those guys over at the TOR forums didn't used these words to insult anyone when talking about this and they were banned.

Something I found regarding this little scandal...

Here is a metaphor:

A child has a toy, they enjoy it. A larger child comes and takes it from them, then enjoys beating the smaller child with it. An adult comes along and takes away the toy. Neither child is happy, but the adult gets some peace.

Here the adult seemingly tried to pre-empt the screaming match by just not giving the kids their toys.

Is this wrong? Yes, it's a cop out that does nothing to change or address the situation. The larger kid still likes beating the smaller one. Taking away the small childs favourite toy makes it seem he is being punished and merely forces the larger child to get more creative. (The small child as such starts crying and the large child starts taunting him... this metaphor is becoming more accurate than I had possibly imagined!)

What should the adult do? Seperate the children to punish the larger child, give the smaller child it's toy back, but prevent the small child from taunting the large child with it.

Can bioware do this? No. Videogame creators are not parental substitutes. The two sides of the argument may well be children though.