Blizzard Officially Ruined D3

Charging For Extra Features + Auto Stat:

read on:

Thasador here at blizzcon reporting in...

I was able to be one of the first to tryout the new playable demo Diablo III. I was able to get a lot of information so far in regards of skills, gameplay, graphics, dialog, NPC's, and more...

One of the more interesting things about the game play is the Character Stat Assigning. I was able to level up the Wizard and the Witchdocter to a few levels and noticed something strange.

I was able to talk to the lead director of the demo area and was no at liberty to say but was able to tell me that [color=red]Character Stat assigning will be totally automatic. You will not have any control of which stats get increased. This greatly reduces stragety and builds for the near future when Diablo III gets announced.

http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15275


AND



Diablo III director Jay Wilson said today that the company does not have a great desire to charge a subscription fee for the upcoming revision of its multiplayer client Battle.net. However, the developer did note that Blizzard will likely monetize unknown features of the game.

[color=red]"We are going to monetize features so that we get to make them," said Wilson. "We kind of have to."[/color]
[/color]
Wilson noted that whatever the content would be, it would have an appropriate value to users.

Fans of map hacking and other Diablo II modifications have little to look forward to with the sequel, as Wilson shot down any talk of mod support.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/55271

discuss i think ill stick with d2

HERE IS THE RAGE THREAD AT POPULAR TRADING SIGHT D2JSP----> LOOKED HOW RAGED PPLE ARE

http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showtopic=24520451&f=68&st=50

the lead director of the demo area...was able to tell me that Character Stat assigning will be totally automatic. You will not have any control of which stats get increased. This greatly reduces stragety and builds for the near future when Diablo III gets announced.banemind

true fallen reign

and for those who think paying for features is not a big issue look at hellgate london

D3 is epic fail. D2>D3FallenReign

depends we cant honestly say it will fail or be awesome until it launches... if you base an opinion and perception off of one group of people that played a not even complete demo of a game still aways from being released... well thats just.. well i know better than that.

we will just have to wait and see. but honestly i think as the 2 games that are actually out, d1>d2.... but thats just my personal opinion.

and the term epic is being used loosely these days.

good that theres no modsPS2_PC_FAN

I highly doubt that charachter stats will be automatically assigned in a Blizzard RPG... :|chrisrooR

Um. Character stat increases autoassigned to relevant stats for a character by leveling are the norm. That's what WoW does... and what countless other RPGs have done. Why would your Wizard need to put points in strength? Or your barbarian in Intelligence? You still, as before, will have the talent tree to custom spec your character.

Well, as long as it is fun.

Honestly, guys, its not like Diablo had much real depth to begin with. It was an extremely fun clickfest. As for stats, how many of you actually made your own builds versus looking up "the best build" for such and such type of character. Every whirlwind barbarian was the same, every zealadin was the same, every amazon had that awesome ethereal javelin, etc

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]I highly doubt that charachter stats will be automatically assigned in a Blizzard RPG... :|WDT-BlackKat

Um. Character stat increases autoassigned to relevant stats for a character by leveling are the norm. That's what WoW does... and what countless other RPGs have done. Why would your Wizard need to put points in strength? Or your barbarian in Intelligence? You still, as before, will have the talent tree to custom spec your character.

It ruins freedom and experimentation. I learned this from the MMO Ragnarok where you can have different kinds of stats of a one class. There's a hybrid knight possessing great strength great vit and great dex for decent versatility or a pure strength knight for high damage or an agi knight where the knight slashes very fast like an assasin. You can have a wizard fast cast but decent magic, or strongest magic but slow casting, etc.

Edit: It doesn't suit Diablo for me though so it's all fine for me. Diablo isn't similar to a game like Ragnarok

Hmmm. Maybe... hmmm. Maybe it's only for the Blizzcon '08 build.Locke562

hehe...did I just hear uber modder speaking?

Um. Character stat increases autoassigned to relevant stats for a character by leveling are the norm. That's what WoW does... and what countless other RPGs have done. Why would your Wizard need to put points in strength? Or your barbarian in Intelligence? You still, as before, will have the talent tree to custom spec your character.

WDT-BlackKat

auto leveling is norm for JRPG for sure, and apparently WoW type of games adopt that (don't know until now since I don't mmo). however, *normally* Western CRPG would let gamers to do it and provide as an option automatic stat/skill point distribution. moreover, stat/skill and character build for most good CRPGs are way too complicated for the computer to do the thing. Playing BGs, Fallouts, Arcanum, VtMB and such...we don't want anyone or anything to do the leveling up for us.

I basically have to get Diablo 3. I have to!

But I'm not touching these "microtransactions".

I can see it now. Customize your keybindings for $10.

Get an extra quest for $5.

Unlock the secret cow level for $15.

/barf

come to think of it. I actually like the idea where character stats will be automatic. I hated assigning points in diablo 1 and 2. i was afraid i would gimp character. As long as the gear has stat raising attributes...then its all good.

But totally eliminating mod support and have a subscription IS NOT COOL. :evil:

[QUOTE="chrisrooR"]I highly doubt that charachter stats will be automatically assigned in a Blizzard RPG... :|WDT-BlackKat

Um. Character stat increases autoassigned to relevant stats for a character by leveling are the norm. That's what WoW does... and what countless other RPGs have done. Why would your Wizard need to put points in strength? Or your barbarian in Intelligence? You still, as before, will have the talent tree to custom spec your character.

Ooooh, I misinterpreted. I thought it was refferring to the 'talents' it would pick for you. My bad.

Anyway, Now that I know what everyone's talking about I don't believe it will ruin the game, just make it a bit easier.

Well, as long as it is fun.

Honestly, guys, its not like Diablo had much real depth to begin with. It was an extremely fun clickfest. As for stats, how many of you actually made your own builds versus looking up "the best build" for such and such type of character. Every whirlwind barbarian was the same, every zealadin was the same, every amazon had that awesome ethereal javelin, etc

mrbojangles25

This is a good point. People say it ruins freedom, yet when I played D2 everyone I ran into was limiting themselves to the best stat distribution anyway.

People were being too optimistic, like it was a Bioware game in the Character development departments.

This isnt Baldur's Gate 2 or KoTOR.

"We kind of have to."

banemind

Someone wants a bigger pool?

Auto stats= no1 playing after the first 4 months. I doubt this is true though.

Anyways, who actually believed that d3 wouldn't be WoW lite with WoW lite-like charges?

whoever said diablo 2 does not have depth has no idea what he is talking about the pvp system is the greatest of any game ever madebanemind

Charging For Extra Features + Auto Stat:

read on:

Thasador here at blizzcon reporting in...

I was able to be one of the first to tryout the new playable demo Diablo III. I was able to get a lot of information so far in regards of skills, gameplay, graphics, dialog, NPC's, and more...

One of the more interesting things about the game play is the Character Stat Assigning. I was able to level up the Wizard and the Witchdocter to a few levels and noticed something strange.

You will not have any control of which stats get increased. This greatly reduces stragety and builds for the near future when Diablo III gets announced.

http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15275


AND



Diablo III director Jay Wilson said today that the company does not have a great desire to charge a subscription fee for the upcoming revision of its multiplayer client Battle.net. However, the developer did note that Blizzard will likely monetize unknown features of the game.

Wilson noted that whatever the content would be, it would have an appropriate value to users.

Fans of map hacking and other Diablo II modifications have little to look forward to with the sequel, as Wilson shot down any talk of mod support.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/55271

discuss i think ill stick with d2

HERE IS THE RAGE THREAD AT POPULAR TRADING SIGHT D2JSP----> LOOKED HOW RAGED PPLE ARE

http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showtopic=24520451&f=68&st=50

banemind

Think I'll stick to a more reliable source than shacknews....

true fallen reign

and for those who think paying for features is not a big issue look at hellgate london

banemind

[QUOTE="WDT-BlackKat"]

Um. Character stat increases autoassigned to relevant stats for a character by leveling are the norm. That's what WoW does... and what countless other RPGs have done. Why would your Wizard need to put points in strength? Or your barbarian in Intelligence? You still, as before, will have the talent tree to custom spec your character.

teardropmina

auto leveling is norm for JRPG for sure, and apparently WoW type of games adopt that (don't know until now since I don't mmo). however, *normally* Western CRPG would let gamers to do it and provide as an option automatic stat/skill point distribution. moreover, stat/skill and character build for most good CRPGs are way too complicated for the computer to do the thing. Playing BGs, Fallouts, Arcanum, VtMB and such...we don't want anyone or anything to do the leveling up for us.

BG only let you set up the stats at the start, and they were rather bad at it to. But still, not being allowed to change your stats kind of sucks, I wonder if they will confirm it. On the B.net issue it seems like Blizzard sucks at making some announcments. The way he said it is that certain services would not exist had the option to pay for them not existed, but he provides no example of what they are and how they will affect the game. Its the same with the StarCraft 2 announcment, they announce them as three full retail games (due to their size) and at the same time call them episodes (which on Pc are small), but on the website call them expansion packs which is what they probably are.

I highly doubt that charachter stats will be automatically assigned in a Blizzard RPG... :|chrisrooR

agreed

[QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

Well, as long as it is fun.

Honestly, guys, its not like Diablo had much real depth to begin with. It was an extremely fun clickfest. As for stats, how many of you actually made your own builds versus looking up "the best build" for such and such type of character. Every whirlwind barbarian was the same, every zealadin was the same, every amazon had that awesome ethereal javelin, etc

mudflaps2001

This is a good point. People say it ruins freedom, yet when I played D2 everyone I ran into was limiting themselves to the best stat distribution anyway.

No. Both of you are wrong. If you make a Crusader(Charger) Paladin in D II LOD to duel you can choose between to fight with a 2 HD weapon serching massive damage (one hit kill) or 1 HD weapon + shield aiming for better defense. In both builds your distribution of health and dex will change dramatically because you will be more vulnerable with a Cranium Basher than with Stormlash + Stormshield. So maybe with the 2 HD hammer you will expent more into life and with Stormshield more into dex to attach max block.

Another example: if you build a Titan (a barb with 2 HD war spiked with massive strenght and less vit (around 400/100) for PvM your target is to do inmense dmg and leech life to replenish your small pool of life.

With auto leveling stats some of the more interesting choices of DII builds will be simple not viable. Come on guys, ¿how the lack of choices could be better to the game? After reducing the scale of the game from 8 to 5 players, after the absence of potions and the new inventory with 1 item = 1 celd, whatever be a ring or a ornate gothic armor... Blizzard is making changes to make D III viable in Wii or another console. They simply are nerfing the product to be playable in a gamepad interface.

With my Skelemancer I need around 12-18 hotkeys to play comfortably in Hell, D II is absolutely impossible to play with a gamepad. But if you start to drop features like inventory management, stats control, use of potions... at the end you will be playing in a very inferior game than D2. D2 is not WoW. In WoW if you are a Rogue your mission, the reason to your existence, your only function, is to do close combat dmg. In D2 cou can choose a ranged caster class like Sorc or Necro and build a viable mele character, or play a pally as a bow marksman.

Saying that auto-leveling in the atributes instead of personalmanagement is good is an absolute non-sense.

[QUOTE="mudflaps2001"][QUOTE="mrbojangles25"]

Well, as long as it is fun.

Honestly, guys, its not like Diablo had much real depth to begin with. It was an extremely fun clickfest. As for stats, how many of you actually made your own builds versus looking up "the best build" for such and such type of character. Every whirlwind barbarian was the same, every zealadin was the same, every amazon had that awesome ethereal javelin, etc

Ondoval

This is a good point. People say it ruins freedom, yet when I played D2 everyone I ran into was limiting themselves to the best stat distribution anyway.

No. Both of you are wrong. If you make a Crusader(Charger) Paladin in D II LOD to duel you can choose between to fight with a 2 HD weapon serching massive damage (one hit kill) or 1 HD weapon + shield aiming for better defense. In both builds your distribution of health and dex will change dramatically because you will be more vulnerable with a Cranium Basher than with Stormlash + Stormshield. So maybe with the 2 HD hammer you will expent more into life and with Stormshield more into dex to attach max block.

Another example: if you build a Titan (a barb with 2 HD war spiked with massive strenght and less vit (around 400/100) for PvM your target is to do inmense dmg and leech life to replenish your small pool of life.

With auto leveling stats some of the more interesting choices of DII builds will be simple not viable. Come on guys, ¿how the lack of choices could be better to the game? After reducing the scale of the game from 8 to 5 players, after the absence of potions and the new inventory with 1 item = 1 celd, whatever be a ring or a ornate gothic armor... Blizzard is making changes to make D III viable in Wii or another console. They simply are nerfing the product to be playable in a gamepad interface.

With my Skelemancer I need around 12-18 hotkeys to play comfortably in Hell, D II is absolutely impossible to play with a gamepad. But if you start to drop features like inventory management, stats control, use of potions... at the end you will be playing in a very inferior game than D2. D2 is not WoW. In WoW if you are a Rogue your mission, the reason to your existence, your only function, is to do close combat dmg. In D2 cou can choose a ranged caster class like Sorc or Necro and build a viable mele character, or play a pally as a bow marksman.

Saying that auto-leveling in the atributes instead of personalmanagement is good is an absolute non-sense.

I never said auto-stats were good or bad. The point bojangles made and I agreed with was simply that many people never took advantage of the system in the first place - why be creative when someone else can do it for you? Of course it limits flexibility - how much would depend on item stats, quest rewards, whatever.

Now that said, if auto-stats are in the retail version I hope charms and elixirs come back too... hell I hope they are around anyway.

No. Both of you are wrong. If you make a Crusader(Charger) Paladin in D II LOD to duel you can choose between to fight with a 2 HD weapon serching massive damage (one hit kill) or 1 HD weapon + shield aiming for better defense. In both builds your distribution of health and dex will change dramatically because you will be more vulnerable with a Cranium Basher than with Stormlash + Stormshield. So maybe with the 2 HD hammer you will expent more into life and with Stormshield more into dex to attach max block.

Another example: if you build a Titan (a barb with 2 HD war spiked with massive strenght and less vit (around 400/100) for PvM your target is to do inmense dmg and leech life to replenish your small pool of life.

With auto leveling stats some of the more interesting choices of DII builds will be simple not viable. Come on guys, ¿how the lack of choices could be better to the game? After reducing the scale of the game from 8 to 5 players, after the absence of potions and the new inventory with 1 item = 1 celd, whatever be a ring or a ornate gothic armor... Blizzard is making changes to make D III viable in Wii or another console. They simply are nerfing the product to be playable in a gamepad interface.

With my Skelemancer I need around 12-18 hotkeys to play comfortably in Hell, D II is absolutely impossible to play with a gamepad. But if you start to drop features like inventory management, stats control, use of potions... at the end you will be playing in a very inferior game than D2. D2 is not WoW. In WoW if you are a Rogue your mission, the reason to your existence, your only function, is to do close combat dmg. In D2 cou can choose a ranged caster class like Sorc or Necro and build a viable mele character, or play a pally as a bow marksman.

Saying that auto-leveling in the atributes instead of personalmanagement is good is an absolute non-sense.

Ondoval

I dont think you can possibly be any more wrong. I am so happy Blizzard made the auto-stats decisions as well as several others. I dont think you can really look at the root of the problem and identify why it is that blizzard made those decisions.

Ultimately, PvP was left up to a tiny handful of builds among several characters that had to have s pecific distribution of statistics with a specific set of gear. PvE was practically the same thing in order to be viable in Hell, though it was a tiny bit less strict in the gear.

How exactly is following a guide or made-up standard any fun at all? Its not. The enjoyment didnt come from going through it, it came once you reached it, which took an huge amount of time and effort to get to. The player not following a specific guide simply felt a bit lost as to what a decent distribution would be and many players often found themselves with a bad build once they got into the middle of Nightmare difficulty and would be forced to start over again... This is fun how?

Making each class stick closer to their roles via auto-distributed stats is such a good thing. Sure, you can argue from a customization part that its a nerf (even though, the ability to do so was never a good idea in the first place), but it makes each class for more unique. I never did like the fact that in Diablo 3 everything can be homogenized so easily and the differences between each class was really only the 3 or 4 different skills you'd spam in every fight,

XaosII: I'm not wrong about this. There's nothing close to "each class stick closer to their roles" in Diablo II because there are not one role for any class in the game.

Think about the Paladin: is a mele fighter with support role to teammates because his auras? Well, the thing is that most used build is the Hammerdin, which is a spellcaster which ranged attacks do unbeliable damage to almost any creature in the game. Great for PvM and magic finding. And then think about the most used pally to duels and to uber Tristam in 1.11 and 1.12: Smiters. If you don't want to play the "typical" pally like Frostladin (Zeal + Cold) or Avenger (Revenge + Conviction) you can make near to another 6-7 viable builds. You can even make a "Fallen" -pally without auras- not because it's effective but because is extremely hard to play with and survive. Is your choice.

Yo think that the stats aspect of the game is not fun because some people write guides to play the game including optimal distribution for any stat in any build, but the thing is these options in the distribution are part of the greatness of the system which give to the player the chances of make multiple viable builds in any class. At the end, auto-leveling stats will reduce the amount of builds that can work in any class.

If you will play D II as the typical builds are suggested then "mele classes" are dead. You will never reach the items that Barbs, Pallys or Kicksins need to survive in hell because they can't stand in hell witouth these items. Is a bucle, an ouroboros. It's because the options in the character building where you will find the ways to send a magic find build into hell, which will find the weapons that the first ones need.

Again: this is not WoW. Diablo is not about 12 player fighting to survive against a single monster, but about a single player in a 8 player match crushing alone dozen of minions in the worlstone keep in hell. And it need a highly degree of muchkinism which includes the option to place any stat point in any level as we want.

The stat auto assign doesn't bother me so much, but charging for extra features does.

Aside from the fact that i hate the Paladin and i pray that Blizzard does not introduce any incarnation of that class because i believe its based on a completely fundamentally flawed concept, what you say has nothing to do with autodistributed stats. Those builds were based largely on the selection of skills and to a much lesser extent, the weapons and armors that relied on your stats.

Im failing to see why auto-distributed stats makes it mutually exclusive with specialized builds. Especially since each build you listed had a completely different reliance on skills and not stats. You'd have a valid argument if there was a same skill set build that had completely different sets of stats but alos played very differently - which doesn't exist.

What i find odd is that so many people fail to see the irony that removing the ability to customize stats actually increases the amount of available character customization options. Blizzard has said that they will allow skill respecing in some form. This means you can switch builds with only having to worry about switching a few pieces of gear around (made easier due to the single slot per item).You have more options to play the chatacter differenlty instead of having to make brand new characters to tailor both skills AND stats towards it.

Players don't have to worry about stat distribution and neither do the developers when making gear. That effectively means that ALL gear roughly meant for a class is available to every member of that class. It makes it alot easier for the item designers to create more interesting and unique pieces of armor without having to worry about a ceertain robe with X ability might be overpowered on aBarbarian because he's got the Int to wear it. Which is exactly why gear and classes end up getting so homogenized since gear is so generic.

You're right. D3 isn't wow, but D3 is game meant to be fun. If min/maxing is the only way of being competative in PvE or PvP, then then you're essentially just forcing yourself into the same min/maxed builds over and over in each class. That doesn't sound like fun to me.

Some builds still are using a lot of "1 point miracle" skills, like to spent 1 point in Redemption, Prayer and Resist All in the pallys, or 1 point in all Necro Curses, which can be very useful sometimes, mainly in team games.

But think about this: is the fact that the builds are usually specialized in max 3 to 5 skills the reason because there's space to build a few different variants with any char. You can build a Lightning Sorc, a Chain Ligthning/Orb, a Meteorb... a Summoner Druid... a Windy Druid, a Fireclaw Druid...

To be factible builds using 6-8 skills the game would be builded to be effective with skills toped at level 10; then, instead 4-5 lvl 20 skills the people would play with 8-10 lvl 10 skills, which is not possible with 95% of the DII characters.

But think about this: if the ****s would work effectively using 1/3 of his 30 skills, then there will no reason to build ANY variant of any char. With a couple of variations almost ALL players will have the same skills in any character. This is what you want?

Then, the people will build "the barb", "the wizard", "the soc doc" and the game will have only a dozen of builds instead the dozens that D II actually have.

Of course, there's a way to "enlarge" the number of builds: creating new skills. Instead 30 x 7 characters, maybe 50 x 7 chars?

But there's a problem: probably is not factible to create 350 different skills, because at the end a lot of them are way too similar: ranged attack with a few variations in area of effect, patterns and speed, close range attacks with different speed, damage and effect, and another group of utilities skills.

In the end: you are talking about using more skills for **** that IMO it will reduce severely both the numbers of builds and the replaying interest in any one.

If the people at high level are using always the same items, the same Ravenfrost/Dwarf Star, Enigma, Mara's Kaleidoscope... Is because the green uniques are poor (well, some pieces of some of them are usable, but are exceptions). Look at the Herald Of Zakarum shields: the only reason because is only used by pallys is because is char specific. If Blizzard would made more and better options char specifics in green and unique elite items you would not see a lot or Sorceress with Achron "Chains Of Honor" runeword, or constantly use of zerk axes and phase blades to the same runewords in almost any character in the game. If it is a lot homogenic is because the better options are the same to most of the characters. Anyway, I'm very happy seeing Sorcs with heavy armors and wall shields instead the same clichés of all other rpgs.

I will repeat it again: I don't want that a single build of Barb can use all the barb skills in the game. I prefer 3-4 viable Barb builds using 3-4 skills, because it will motivate me to work in a new build. The same with a all the other ****

One last thing: I like Paladins, a lot. The ones in Daiblo II, not the useless meat walls in WoW.

Weird, all these * * * * were c l a s s in my text :/Ondoval

I think im even more confused now with your last post.

Im failing to see the connection with stats, if everything you've mentioned has been about different sets of skills.

The different sorc builds you mentioned are perfect, simply because they all have nearly identical stat distribution. The result? Similar stats, 3 or 4 different skills you spam. Diablo 3 with autodistributed stats? Similar stats, 3 or 4 different skills to spam.

Now i can see your point if you've mentioned any kind of build that requires a completely different set of stats in order to be effective, but im not seeing that. Nearly every paladin build is 100+ str, some dex, everything else into vit, and ignore energy. Same thing for the barbarian. Amazon? a tiny bit of str, mostly dex, rest in vit, ignore eng. The only exception might the druid between caster and morph.

Are you realzing that the majority of builds for most classes have similar stat distribution among their class? Do you realize that this is only penalizing players that aren't reading guide? Since the majority of builds are min/maxing armor, most of them recommend similar amounts of str so that they are all running around in the same armor?

By making stats auto distributed it makes ait a heck of alot easier for the designers to customa tailor items and gear for classes due to high requirements that cannot be achieved by other classes. Its shifting over customization from the player's distribution of stats to the players choice of items among their own class, which is a far, far better choice for the player and developers in a loot-centric game.