Casual Strategy games?

So is there any strategy game developer that is making games that are not for the casual gamer? Because the latest strategy games are so simple that my 9 year old sister can learn and master.

I am getting more and more mad at strategy games targeted toward "Ca sual Gamers". I prefer games that are in depth and take hours to learn, and months to master, and I love spending days on one game. Mainly I love options, lots of options. Right now my favorite games have come from Paradox Interactive which all have awesome and would love to find more of that type.

Sadly I think the "Ca sual Gamer" is where the money lies for the game developers and not very many people prefer the games I enjoy. But I admit I still buy casual games and still play them sometimes, they have their place. But the in-depth ones are SO rare these days.

Well I think I'm just still mad and disappointed with Empire Earth and the Civ games. I know they started out fairly ca sual but it seems that they get simpler and shallower with each release.

I really think its just Paradox and maybe star dock (galactic civilizations 2) and the developers of the star empires seriesthatare making the more indepth and complex games - bear in mind there may be some indie strategy games out there to prove me wrong.

Ill agree with you that the strategy games today are simpler affiars but the dumbing down and simplicity is not confied to strategy games, but also RPG's with Oblivion (and eventually Fallout 3) confirming this and alot of so called 'RPG's being little more than hack and slash games.

Have you tried Medieval 2? Not only does it take a while to get use to how the campaign works, but it's quite a challenge, and now that the expansion pack is out, there's a "Hotseat"/ Multiplayer feature for the campaign instead of just custom battles. Look up some things about it, I think you will like it.

Company of Heroes is pretty good, it's quick to learn the basics, but it realy deserves to be called a strategy game, because there's way more to it then just building some crap and then pumping out units till the enemy is overwhelmed, you REALLY have to be tactical. That's also made by the guys who made Dawn of War, but I'd say Dawn of War is a little "casual" too, since it's based on a board game, and it uses a board gamish system, yet it's in real time so it's alot faster and you can hardly notice it, it's actually really cool how the game works.

that's all I can really think of right now, your right about how RTS seem more Casual nowadays, even supreme commander seems casual. Fun game though.

You just have to look a little harder. The games you're looking for are definitely out there and seem to be being made more frequently of late. They just aren't the type of game that'll ever get any attention on a site like this one.

Head over to www.wargamer.com and you'll find tonnes of info on complex strategy games.

I really think its just Paradox and maybe star dock (galactic civilizations 2) and the developers of the star empires seriesthatare making the more indepth and complex games - bear in mind there may be some indie strategy games out there to prove me wrong.

Ill agree with you that the strategy games today are simpler affiars but the dumbing down and simplicity is not confied to strategy games, but also RPG's with Oblivion (and eventually Fallout 3) confirming this and alot of so called 'RPG's being little more than hack and slash games.

master_blue

Yeah, Star dock is awesome, I've spent plenty of hours with SE.

And yeah, I've played all the TW games except shogun, the GC is fun but I felt they stilled centered the game around the battles which are down right amazing and fun to play though.

As of now, my favorite RTS is SC, I also own both DoW and CoH which are fun in their own way but I really enjoy the amount of choices SC has even though it has that simplisic feel to it.

And I checked out that website www.wargamer.com and it looks like its what I'm look for, thanks.