Direct X 11, Nvidia Wins
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nope its crysis...[QUOTE="DJ8WORK"][QUOTE="GhoX"]Without even looking at the video, I can safely assume that it's specifically about "Unigine 2.0", which uses CUDA Tessellation instead of DX11 Tessellation. Nvidia wins in CUDA; nobody has yet "won" DX11.jamesfffan
Nope its Unigine Heaven 2.0 with extreme tessellation, Cuda tessellation.
Nope the link i posted was a benchmark for crysis 480 vs 5970 and the 5970 won, by rather alot
Nvidia clearly wins here and Nvidia imo has been m card of choice for a while now. However i took a look at that system wattage 0_0 on both systems and i was like WOW!! but yeah anyway Nvida Wins but i think buying these cards right now isnt a good idea right now. Id wait till DX11 is used more in games and wait till we see some real DX11 games like Rage and doom 4, bulletstorm, HL3 etc. I guess enthusiasts can afford them since they probably have a good paying job and maxin there **** out is what they do, but for gamers, id say wait till the ech gets better. Right now im jsut fine with my 9800GTX+
You only succeed in a market if people are buying your products, and I honestly don't see any reason to buy a new Nvidia card. They're to big, hot, noisy and power hungry for HTPC/workstation and not competitivly priced enough for the target market.
ATI's HD 5xxx series is 7 months old, 5-7 months from now ATI will have a card that wipes the floor with whatever Nvidia has out. MannyHanny
and thats what im waiting on.
something worth upgrading to.
that isnt a room heater.. needs tesla coils to run... and doesn't sound like the launch pad of Nasa lol
Nvidia clearly wins here and Nvidia imo has been m card of choice for a while now. However i took a look at that system wattage 0_0 on both systems and i was like WOW!! but yeah anyway Nvida Wins but i think buying these cards right now isnt a good idea right now. Id wait till DX11 is used more in games and wait till we see some real DX11 games like Rage and doom 4, bulletstorm, HL3 etc. I guess enthusiasts can afford them since they probably have a good paying job and maxin there **** out is what they do, but for gamers, id say wait till the ech gets better. Right now im jsut fine with my 9800GTX+
AlphaJC
I think alot of people are missing the point. ATI and Nvidia seem to be fighting different battles right now. ATI has realized that the pure DX11 performance of this generation doesn't matter much, because there will be a whole new generation of much more affordable DX11 hardware out by the time that functionality really matters. They instead put their focus on making a product line that performs extremely well in DX9/DX10 titles, while using relatively little power and carrying low price tags. They also generated a good deal of excitement around their product and released it 6 months before Nvidia had anything that could compete. Nvidia on the other hand decided that they wanted to make an impractical, power-sucking, hot, slightly faster, more expensive line of cards. True, the DX11 performance of Fermi does appear to be slightly better than Evergreen in early tests.. but once again, it doesn't much matter this round. The truth is that neither Fermi or Evergreen are GOOD DX11 performers.. so buying either one for that reason is fairly pointless. ATI's strategy will result (already has to a great extent) in better sales, which makes them the winner. Just raw performance doesn't tell the story of who "wins." It's about the marketing strategy and product focus, leading to good reviews and better sales. There's no arguing against the fact that Evergreen has gotten better reviews than Fermi.
I'm fine with the 5870 and the GTX480 being compared. I think that the 5970 is too expensive to be compared with the GTX480, but I don't have an issue with a single gpu versus dual-gpu comparison... just the $200 price difference.
While true that the GTX480 does appear to handle alot of DX11 features better than the 5870, it doesn't matter all that much this round. The DX11 performance will matter much more NEXT round of GPUs. The fact is that Evergreen is more efficient and less expensive. And it outperforms the GTX480/470 in Crysis, which is the most-demanding DX9/DX10 game.
hartsickdiscipl
You can get a 5870 for $400.
A GTX 480 cost 25% more than the 5870 ($500)
A 5970 cost 25% more than the GTX 480 ($625 at Provantage) (its backordered but you can put it on your cart for when it's available)
[QUOTE="AlphaJC"]
Nvidia clearly wins here and Nvidia imo has been m card of choice for a while now. However i took a look at that system wattage 0_0 on both systems and i was like WOW!! but yeah anyway Nvida Wins but i think buying these cards right now isnt a good idea right now. Id wait till DX11 is used more in games and wait till we see some real DX11 games like Rage and doom 4, bulletstorm, HL3 etc. I guess enthusiasts can afford them since they probably have a good paying job and maxin there **** out is what they do, but for gamers, id say wait till the ech gets better. Right now im jsut fine with my 9800GTX+
hartsickdiscipl
I think alot of people are missing the point. ATI and Nvidia seem to be fighting different battles right now. ATI has realized that the pure DX11 performance of this generation doesn't matter much, because there will be a whole new generation of much more affordable DX11 hardware out by the time that functionality really matters. They instead put their focus on making a product line that performs extremely well in DX9/DX10 titles, while using relatively little power and carrying low price tags. They also generated a good deal of excitement around their product and released it 6 months before Nvidia had anything that could compete. Nvidia on the other hand decided that they wanted to make an impractical, power-sucking, hot, slightly faster, more expensive line of cards. True, the DX11 performance of Fermi does appear to be slightly better than Evergreen in early tests.. but once again, it doesn't much matter this round. The truth is that neither Fermi or Evergreen are GOOD DX11 performers.. so buying either one for that reason is fairly pointless. ATI's strategy will result (already has to a great extent) in better sales, which makes them the winner. Just raw performance doesn't tell the story of who "wins." It's about the marketing strategy and product focus, leading to good reviews and better sales. There's no arguing against the fact that Evergreen has gotten better reviews than Fermi.
i pretty much agree,
if fermi wasnt so power hungry, hot, or noisy, then it would of been great competition.. but as it is now neither card is that great for any dx11 game out, much less ones to come.
It is why im waiting on atleast revisions/refreshs of both companies on their lineups. maybe even their next lineup.
something just a little more (i dont mean much, just slightly more) powerful than gtx480/hd5870.. around 10-10.5 inches long.. doesnt sound like a shuttle launching, doesn't have a dryer exhaust, and doesnt require mass power consumption.
yes im prepared to wait 6-10 months as well. (not only will dx11 be more optimized, better hardware to run it, there will be more of a reason to have it as more games will utilize it more)
[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]
[QUOTE="AlphaJC"]
Nvidia clearly wins here and Nvidia imo has been m card of choice for a while now. However i took a look at that system wattage 0_0 on both systems and i was like WOW!! but yeah anyway Nvida Wins but i think buying these cards right now isnt a good idea right now. Id wait till DX11 is used more in games and wait till we see some real DX11 games like Rage and doom 4, bulletstorm, HL3 etc. I guess enthusiasts can afford them since they probably have a good paying job and maxin there **** out is what they do, but for gamers, id say wait till the ech gets better. Right now im jsut fine with my 9800GTX+
Lach0121
I think alot of people are missing the point. ATI and Nvidia seem to be fighting different battles right now. ATI has realized that the pure DX11 performance of this generation doesn't matter much, because there will be a whole new generation of much more affordable DX11 hardware out by the time that functionality really matters. They instead put their focus on making a product line that performs extremely well in DX9/DX10 titles, while using relatively little power and carrying low price tags. They also generated a good deal of excitement around their product and released it 6 months before Nvidia had anything that could compete. Nvidia on the other hand decided that they wanted to make an impractical, power-sucking, hot, slightly faster, more expensive line of cards. True, the DX11 performance of Fermi does appear to be slightly better than Evergreen in early tests.. but once again, it doesn't much matter this round. The truth is that neither Fermi or Evergreen are GOOD DX11 performers.. so buying either one for that reason is fairly pointless. ATI's strategy will result (already has to a great extent) in better sales, which makes them the winner. Just raw performance doesn't tell the story of who "wins." It's about the marketing strategy and product focus, leading to good reviews and better sales. There's no arguing against the fact that Evergreen has gotten better reviews than Fermi.
i pretty much agree,
if fermi wasnt so power hungry, hot, or noisy, then it would of been great competition.. but as it is now neither card is that great for any dx11 game out, much less ones to come.
It is why im waiting on atleast revisions/refreshs of both companies on their lineups. maybe even their next lineup.
something just a little more (i dont mean much, just slightly more) powerful than gtx480/hd5870.. around 10-10.5 inches long.. doesnt sound like a shuttle launching, doesn't have a dryer exhaust, and doesnt require mass power consumption.
yes im prepared to wait 6-10 months as well. (not only will dx11 be more optimized, better hardware to run it, there will be more of a reason to have it as more games will utilize it more)
If I had 2 8800gt's in SLI I probably wouldn't have upgraded to the 5870 either. I used to have 2 8800gt's in SLI back in early 2008, but I was stupid and sold them instead of my Socket 939 SLI board and Athlon 64 x2 which were holding them back. I ended up with a single 8800gts 512, which served my needs very well. If I'd just upgraded my CPU/MOBO/RAM then rather than later, I could still be using those cards today!
[QUOTE="Lach0121"]
[QUOTE="hartsickdiscipl"]
I think alot of people are missing the point. ATI and Nvidia seem to be fighting different battles right now. ATI has realized that the pure DX11 performance of this generation doesn't matter much, because there will be a whole new generation of much more affordable DX11 hardware out by the time that functionality really matters. They instead put their focus on making a product line that performs extremely well in DX9/DX10 titles, while using relatively little power and carrying low price tags. They also generated a good deal of excitement around their product and released it 6 months before Nvidia had anything that could compete. Nvidia on the other hand decided that they wanted to make an impractical, power-sucking, hot, slightly faster, more expensive line of cards. True, the DX11 performance of Fermi does appear to be slightly better than Evergreen in early tests.. but once again, it doesn't much matter this round. The truth is that neither Fermi or Evergreen are GOOD DX11 performers.. so buying either one for that reason is fairly pointless. ATI's strategy will result (already has to a great extent) in better sales, which makes them the winner. Just raw performance doesn't tell the story of who "wins." It's about the marketing strategy and product focus, leading to good reviews and better sales. There's no arguing against the fact that Evergreen has gotten better reviews than Fermi.
hartsickdiscipl
i pretty much agree,
if fermi wasnt so power hungry, hot, or noisy, then it would of been great competition.. but as it is now neither card is that great for any dx11 game out, much less ones to come.
It is why im waiting on atleast revisions/refreshs of both companies on their lineups. maybe even their next lineup.
something just a little more (i dont mean much, just slightly more) powerful than gtx480/hd5870.. around 10-10.5 inches long.. doesnt sound like a shuttle launching, doesn't have a dryer exhaust, and doesnt require mass power consumption.
yes im prepared to wait 6-10 months as well. (not only will dx11 be more optimized, better hardware to run it, there will be more of a reason to have it as more games will utilize it more)
If I had 2 8800gt's in SLI I probably wouldn't have upgraded to the 5870 either. I used to have 2 8800gt's in SLI back in early 2008, but I was stupid and sold them instead of my Socket 939 SLI board and Athlon 64 x2 which were holding them back. I ended up with a single 8800gts 512, which served my needs very well. If I'd just upgraded my CPU/MOBO/RAM then rather than later, I could still be using those cards today!
yeah both of my 8800gt's are OCX version with 700mhz vs. the 600mhz standard. (and they do stay suprisingly cool, 65-70c under load)
[QUOTE="jamesfffan"]
[QUOTE="DJ8WORK"] nope its crysis...DJ8WORK
Nope its Unigine Heaven 2.0 with extreme tessellation, Cuda tessellation.
Nope the link i posted was a benchmark for crysis 480 vs 5970 and the 5970 won, by rather alot
I was not addressing your video. I was addressing the topic video.[QUOTE="hlhmark"]
[QUOTE="JigglyWiggly_"] Why shouldn't it be compared? Same price range. Better performance. Who cares if it has 2 gpus? Those two things above are all that matter.jamesfffan
ok then if there compared in uniengine then it handles the tesallation alot better than the dual gpu 5970 so it has better performance in the core for core and the heat thing will soon be gone as there is a product from CoolIT coming out for the GTX480 which is a cooler for it based on the Corsair H50so it wont have heat problems anywhere near as bad anymore, so they could very well make a dual GPU 480 if they uses these
Linky: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=24299
So it needs watercooling just to stay running cool? also you forget Tessellation in unigine - yes nvidia benefits in this area due to cuda, ati does not have cuda YET still performs rather well within 4-5 fps of the 480 GTX with its own tessellator and 5870's XF beat the 480 GTX but thats not fair i know. But soon you shall see the 5790/5890/5990 arriving this year, way before nvidia can trump that.
See this forum for the link to the news article to do with southern islands and northern islands by ATI, theyve already completed their designs! Plus when was the last time you saw a game fully utilising dx11? and tessellation the way its meant to look? dont quote metro 2033, tessellation there is only used on character models for which we see no real difference, vs dx10.
yes it may need a water cooler to keep it cool but i honestly wouldnt mind that i no some people would others wouldnt but it would be added to the bill of the card or at tops £80 which is about the price of a H50 and you dont need a water pump for either, i found a video that shows a 5fps difference in some areas but others its 10-15 and if its on the highest setting and both cards dip into the teens then the 480 looks smoother like crysis kind of thing you cant really notice when it slows down as bad as some other games. Other than metro i cant think of any maybe Dirt 2 but not sure anyways its there because it will be coming out supposidly isnt that what ATI was selling DX11 with their cards for? tessalation and the other features of DX11. i think that they need to work on bits of it yes i wont deny that but when they do and they sort out the power and heat then it will be a good card im not sure if or when they will do it but i rekon they will in time
I think so far dx 11 is a big waste all the games don't really look much better. I turn on tesselation and I have to pause the game and take a screenshot to see the diffrence. IMO dx 11 so far is not a big leap over dx 10/9.
[QUOTE="jamesfffan"]
[QUOTE="hlhmark"]
ok then if there compared in uniengine then it handles the tesallation alot better than the dual gpu 5970 so it has better performance in the core for core and the heat thing will soon be gone as there is a product from CoolIT coming out for the GTX480 which is a cooler for it based on the Corsair H50so it wont have heat problems anywhere near as bad anymore, so they could very well make a dual GPU 480 if they uses these
Linky: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=24299
hlhmark
So it needs watercooling just to stay running cool? also you forget Tessellation in unigine - yes nvidia benefits in this area due to cuda, ati does not have cuda YET still performs rather well within 4-5 fps of the 480 GTX with its own tessellator and 5870's XF beat the 480 GTX but thats not fair i know. But soon you shall see the 5790/5890/5990 arriving this year, way before nvidia can trump that.
See this forum for the link to the news article to do with southern islands and northern islands by ATI, theyve already completed their designs! Plus when was the last time you saw a game fully utilising dx11? and tessellation the way its meant to look? dont quote metro 2033, tessellation there is only used on character models for which we see no real difference, vs dx10.
yes it may need a water cooler to keep it cool but i honestly wouldnt mind that i no some people would others wouldnt but it would be added to the bill of the card or at tops £80 which is about the price of a H50 and you dont need a water pump for either, i found a video that shows a 5fps difference in some areas but others its 10-15 and if its on the highest setting and both cards dip into the teens then the 480 looks smoother like crysis kind of thing you cant really notice when it slows down as bad as some other games. Other than metro i cant think of any maybe Dirt 2 but not sure anyways its there because it will be coming out supposidly isnt that what ATI was selling DX11 with their cards for? tessalation and the other features of DX11. i think that they need to work on bits of it yes i wont deny that but when they do and they sort out the power and heat then it will be a good card im not sure if or when they will do it but i rekon they will in time
By which time ATI's Southern Islands will be out and a little later Northern Islands which is ATI's newest Architecture coming as early as the end of this year, early 2011. There's a topic I made and have a source for this information within that topic, it may be on the 1st or 2nd page of this forum. Head on over to www.overclock.net, ask them what they think of the 470/480 launch. There will be some people that really like em, but the general consensus is exactly what is negative about the cards.
GTX 480 vs. 5970 oc
So, ATi, I ask you, how can you jump into the DX 11 and really do so poorly at what your meant to do? Seriously after watching this video Im beggining to wonder what its gonna be like whenever some fun DX11 games come out that people will like to bench and have some heavy tessalation. Nvidia looks like they are ahead of the game on this one, I dont think Fermi is a fail at all it does DX11 better. Just wait till there next line of GPU's.
somegtalover
Ahead of the game on this one? My ass they are... The Fermi's (GTX 470/480) we're suppose to be launched closely around the same time as ATi 4850/4870 but the release date for the Fermi's were delayed for unknown reasons. "Several" months later; they're finally released. Before the Fermi's were released; Nvidia was hyping and getting their audience excited about how advanced their next line of cards will be. Now I typically thought "Hey, the 4870 was released a while ago so it's a no brainer that the new GTX 470/480 will perform better." When the GTX 480 was released and tested, the results came back as...lack-luster. The 4870 performs better than the GTX 480 in some tests, and in others that the GTX 480 won; wasn't by much - only a little. I was expecting the new Fermi's to out perform 48XX's by a landslide due to the fact that Nvidia delayed their Fermi's to fine-tune them and make them better. And one of the biggeset issues is the insane amount of heat the the new GTX's produce, it's concerning... The GTX 470 is the only thing good about the new Fermi release; it produced notably less heat than it's counterpart, and out performs the 4850 in most cases, especially in SLI. And the GTX 470 is priced just an extra $40 - $75 (depending on who you buy it from) compared to the 4850. The only thing Nvidia is ahead above the rest is that the GTX 480 can generate heat faster than my frickin oven in the kitchen....
. [/spoiler] And you mean "58XX's," "5870" and "5850." It's because the 5970 is a dual gpu graphics card and as such has to divide the work loads in between the two gpus and as such you see the phenomenon of 'micro stuttering'.One thing I noticed about the GTX 480's version of the Unigine benchmark is it outuputs a much smoother picture compared to the 5970 at the same framerate. Wonder why that is...
In any case, the GTX 480 may beat the 5970 in this benchmark, but at what cost? Lower performance for the rest of the components for graphical settings, including ones for DX11? Turn off tesselation, and see what happens in games. The 5970 still beats the GTX 480.
ravenguard90
Well DX11's main feature was being a more refined and backwards compatible version of DX10.I think so far dx 11 is a big waste all the games don't really look much better. I turn on tesselation and I have to pause the game and take a screenshot to see the diffrence. IMO dx 11 so far is not a big leap over dx 10/9.
ChiChiMonKilla
I've played through Bad Company 2 on my PC with my 5870 running DX11, and then I played through the first couple of levels while stability-testing a rig with 2 4850's in CrossfireX running DX10. I noticed some visual differences in the DX11 version that definitely made it look more realistic. It seemed like the lighting was better and the textures were sharper, despite running both at identical resolution/detail settings. I have to attribute the differences to DX11 versus DX10. Not a huge deal, but it was interesting to be able to play one right after the other and compare. Still can't believe how much GPU horsepower I got for $139 with those dual 4850's. They can't quite keep up with my 5870, but they put up a respectable fight and made the game playable maxed out at 1080p with 2xAA on.
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