Discussion of Anti-Piracy

No need to moderate, only about anti-piracy. i read there might be new software coming out that'll i guess work like an offline punkbuster. it's illegal to scan your harddrive, but i guess it can detect certain files to determine whether you own the actual product like windows certification works, and if not, it can disable the software. i'm guessing this will eventually work for movies, games, songs, and software programs.

i'm not sure where i read this, may have been on cnn.com or something.

I hope this doesn't turn out to be StarForce MKII. If you could find a link on the specific scheme, I'd be very greatful.FreyarHunter

Yeah, link would be nice.

Do you know if this is gonna start coming standard with operating systems or something?

No matter what software they release, within a week or so I'll bet that there'll be a way to over come it. Its the way of the world. Piracy isnt going away anytime soon...if ever!

I agree with ADG_. Im sick of buying sub standard games and feel like I have wasted my money.

It will be a waste of money in the end, everything can be crackedanolecrabcf

Actually that is incorrect. There are copy protection systems that have yet to be cracked; for example Syncrosoft comes to mind.

Carey

[QUOTE="anolecrabcf"]It will be a waste of money in the end, everything can be crackedcareyletendre

Actually that is incorrect. There are copy protection systems that have yet to be cracked; for example Syncrosoft comes to mind.

Carey

Syncossft does come to mind, until you realize that their software is protecting Apple MAC OSX softrware, which I cant help but imagine has a good deal fewer cracking groups even bothring trying to bypass it, at least in comparison to the cracking market for PC software. It still holds true that everything can be cracked, it simply a matter of the groups having enough interest and putting time into doing so.

No matter what software they release, within a week or so I'll bet that there'll be a way to over come it. Its the way of the world. Piracy isnt going away anytime soon...if ever!

I agree with ADG_. Im sick of buying sub standard games and feel like I have wasted my money.

VinnoT

Syncossft does come to mind, until you realize that their software is protecting Apple MAC OSX softrware, which I cant help but imagine has a good deal fewer cracking groups even bothring trying to bypass it, at least in comparison to the cracking market for PC software. It still holds true that everything can be cracked, it simply a matter of the groups having enough interest and putting time into doing so.

Syncrosoft provides solutions for both Mac and Pc. I agree with you in that they may be able to be cracked but the last time a Syncrosoft product was cracked it took 1000's of man-hours to do so and the group that did it said they would not try again because it was just too difficult and time consuming.

Cheers,

Carey

I mainly hate that I can't return PC games unless they are factory sealed. I bought double agent cuz it was fun when I played it at my friends house, and it was only 30 bucks, but WTF, it's the buggiest thing in the world, I mean, HORRIBLY buggy game, and Ubisoft won't even help me fix it, they just try to blow me off. I can't return the game, so I'm stuck with it. Great. I don't feel like selling it, because giving that game to someone is like putting a haunted house up for sale.ElArab

QFT, that game is unplayable.

Why is it always that the games that have THE MOST anti piracy protection are the ones that get the worst reviews?

All the great games that came out this few months i DLed them first and all of em were cracked in hours... even when later i bought Orange Box, COD4 and UT3..

My opinion is if a developer made a great work a great game he has nothing to fear... his game will sell well... it is THAT easy

And it is a fact that games that used anti piracy systems like starforce lost a LOT of hype and attention because developers gotta face the fact that a big part of the gamers download first to test the full game and then IF they like it they pay...

They are just pissed because they cant screw the majority of us...

Part of the original post

No need to moderate, only about anti-piracy.......but i guess it can detect certain files to determine whether you own the actual product like windows certification works, and if not, it can disable the software....... ncderek

It's worth mentioning, that windows certification is easily bypassed in both vista and xp, you just need to spend 10mins trying to get it working. Verification services in general are extremely crackable, as is any other form of copy protection.

What it boils down to is that if your copy protection cannot be beaten by a simple .exe switch, then there are people who won't know how to get it working.

Games are so ridiculously cheap anyway, i don't understand why people cry over themselves over a lousy game, in Norway, a game cost about the same as 3-4 cinema tickets, and a movie give you about 2 hours fun, if it is a good movie, a game give you 100 hours if it is a good game. Games are one of the cheapest forms of entertainment out there today. i would think of it as great if someone came up with something that prevented cracking. knut-am

Kids don't have money...You genuinely get some total cheapskates too. One of my friends laughs at the fact that I buy games (don't do computer science, you meet people that genuinely find that sort of thing funny).jollyriot2k1

LOL, I am in Computer Science (network Engineering to be exact but I meet a lot of programming and web people) and I buy games but none of my friends do and I get laughed at to. They all say they will pay if it is good, but they rarely do. I guess all game suck to them, well not enough to delete it from their drive.

LOL, I am in Computer Science (network Engineering to be exact but I meet a lot of programming and web people) and I buy games but none of my friends do and I get laughed at to. They all say they will pay if it is good, but they rarely do. I guess all game suck to them, well not enough to delete it from their drive.

Jade_Monkey

Like I always say in these threads, people use the excuse that they HAVE to play the full game to know if its good. And they ONLY buy "good" games.

But of course this is all BS. Just an excuse to not pay for games. As you said, most pirates play the game all the way thru, then go on forums and complain about how bad it is to ease their conscience for stealing it.

The analogy is like this. Stealing a game is like sneaking into a movie theater. Even if it is a bad movie, you still snuck in, which is morally wrong. It makes you a scumbag. There is no way around it.

Clearly several posters in this very thread fit this category. Think about it.

The best protection against piracy is to make a good gameADG_

Bingo.

[QUOTE="ADG_"]The best protection against piracy is to make a good gamebrood_aliance

Bingo.

Because we all know the honor system works so well in the public sector. :roll:

[QUOTE="ADG_"]The best protection against piracy is to make a good gamebrood_aliance

Bingo.

The best protection against piracy is to stop making expensive games.

[QUOTE="Jade_Monkey"]LOL, I am in Computer Science (network Engineering to be exact but I meet a lot of programming and web people) and I buy games but none of my friends do and I get laughed at to. They all say they will pay if it is good, but they rarely do. I guess all game suck to them, well not enough to delete it from their drive.

baal46

Like I always say in these threads, people use the excuse that they HAVE to play the full game to know if its good. And they ONLY buy "good" games.

But of course this is all BS. Just an excuse to not pay for games. As you said, most pirates play the game all the way thru, then go on forums and complain about how bad it is to ease their conscience for stealing it.

The analogy is like this. Stealing a game is like sneaking into a movie theater. Even if it is a bad movie, you still snuck in, which is morally wrong. It makes you a scumbag. There is no way around it.

Clearly several posters in this very thread fit this category. Think about it.

how about piracy of very old games you like? If it's pirated there's no loss for the dev. It's called abandonware. I heard it's good rather than bad. People need to understand the situation of other people. You know how much orig games cost here? Wii games cost USD$65-$70. Desperate gamers will buy pirated ones. Anyway, it's freaking weird that PC games cost less here. Most new PC games here cost around USD$45 compared to $49.99 in the U.S while console games cost more.

Why is it always that the games that have THE MOST anti piracy protection are the ones that get the worst reviews?

All the great games that came out this few months i DLed them first and all of em were cracked in hours... even when later i bought Orange Box, COD4 and UT3..

My opinion is if a developer made a great work a great game he has nothing to fear... his game will sell well... it is THAT easy

And it is a fact that games that used anti piracy systems like starforce lost a LOT of hype and attention because developers gotta face the fact that a big part of the gamers download first to test the full game and then IF they like it they pay...

They are just pissed because they cant screw the majority of us...

bl1ndz0r

I totally agree, a good game will sell well specially multiplayer games.

Well, no need for self-incrimination here, but we've all pirated something in our lives.

Now that i have slightly money to spend than i did 5 years ago, i buy most (if not all) of my games. I think that having a copy protection scheme like steam is ideal for me since it doesn't intrude on the honest buyer and it prohibits pirates from playing their games on official servers. But to be honest, copy protection as a whole doesn't work and will eventually be cracked.

I'm a loyalist when it comes to purchasing games. I seek out companies that consistently make good games and provide great support/content, and i always buy their games. Companies that come to mind include paradox (of europa universalis fame), stardock (gal civ) and of course valve. I'm a realist and i do realize that most people do not share my attitude and even if a great game is made they simply won't pay for it, but there is simply no cure for that, copy protection or not.

how about piracy of very old games you like? If it's pirated there's no loss for the dev. It's called abandonware. I heard it's good rather than bad.

lordlors

Well, if it's legal to download abandonware then it's not piracy.

how about piracy of very old games you like? If it's pirated there's no loss for the dev. It's called abandonware. I heard it's good rather than bad. People need to understand the situation of other people. You know how much orig games cost here? Wii games cost USD$65-$70. Desperate gamers will buy pirated ones. Anyway, it's freaking weird that PC games cost less here. Most new PC games here cost around USD$45 compared to $49.99 in the U.S while console games cost more.

If it is truly abandonware, as in you can't buy it ANYWHERE anymore, then I think its not only OK, but probably legal as well. It is especially warranted if you have purchased the game before in years past.

I don't know how much new games cost where you live, but they probably cost that much for a reason. There is absolutely no excuse in my mind for stealing a brand new game.

Here's the thing, everybody wants devs to create good games. The way to encourage them to do so is to PAY them for their work. To reward the publishers for their investment in a risky or unusual game. Publishers risk 10's or hundreds of millions of dollars on the front end of a game's development with absolutely no guarantee that game will be profitable. The more people are willing to pirate, the less likely a game is going to make money, whether it is good or not. As such we see publishers lean more and more toward console games, which are a bit harder to pirate than PC. We all know what the effect of "consolization" has on games, dumbed down Lowest Common Denominator crap.

It really is not that hard to tell which games are fun and which are crap, without stealing the full version. Play the demo. Read reviews. Ask a friend that bought it that you trust their opinion. Research opinions of forum posters. Gamers know what is good and what isn't. If you are a real gamer and have been around the scene for years you will have an instinct about which games are quality with little more than a glance at a gameplay vid. Not only that, there are in fact some developers you can TRUST to produce top quality games every time. Blizzard, Bioware, Crytek, and Bethesda games should never be pirated, ever. Just to name a few. Saying you NEED to try the full game to know if a game is good or not is complete and total bullsh*t and you know it.

I for one would be so freaking happy if someone came up with an uncrackable and hassle-free system of copy protection. I am sure it will happen eventually.

And, I hate scumbag pirates with a passion that burns in my soul. If you pirate, you are scum. You are a thief. You are dirt to me. Just as much a criminal as anyone who takes something they did not pay for. Nyah!

endrant

Baal46 ur a little mommas boy that always HAD everything and ur unable to understand other ppl position... not everything turns around u and ur little town... I hate ppl like u that have everything and still have the feeling to bother others...

If u have money to buy every goddamn game then SHUT THE F UP AND DO IT and leave us the ppl that cant waste their money on every crappy game that comes out to play 1 hour and then uninstall it...

i CAN pay for games but since i dont live like u in ur little wonderful american dream world i gotta work three times more than u to buy the same **** But yeah there are always the type of american redneck ignorants like u around internet... Good thing u are a minority (Lived up there in NA for 1 year)

Btw in Asian Countries NEW games like Crysis only cost 20$ ORIGINAL. why? because there the income is lower than americans income and then they can give a chance to ppl to buy original games...

And guess what? it is working... now they are selling DVD Movies for only 5$ in China LEGIT ONES

Companies like EA are doing this and much others...

They should do this all around the world in poor countries of Asia, South America, Etc etc and ull see how Piracy disappears..

Game companies could make it more tempting to buy games instead of buying pirate copies...

The analogy is like this. Stealing a game is like sneaking into a movie theater. Even if it is a bad movie, you still snuck in, which is morally wrong. It makes you a scumbag. There is no way around it.

baal46

Morally wrong? According to whose morals? Yours? What makes you so special that you get to decide whats right and whats wrong. That's right you don't. Pratically everyone 30 and under downloads music, is that the same thing as stealing from a department store? Piracy is going to happen, whether its right or wrong is up to the individual.

Well, if it's legal to download abandonware then it's not piracy.Herrick

If it is truly abandonware, as in you can't buy it ANYWHERE anymore, then I think its not only OK, but probably legal as well. It is especially warranted if you have purchased the game before in years past.

baal46

I agree that it's OK but it's not legal unfortunately. Copyright laws don't even take Abandonware into account.

[QUOTE="Herrick"]Well, if it's legal to download abandonware then it's not piracy.foxhound_fox

Without trying to sound pro-piracy here i have to say i am against having offline piracy detection programs. They'll just become more of a hinderance than a help and i dont like the thought of having a program on my PC that is not only intrusive but pointless for me. Not to mention people will no doubt find some way to bypass, exploit or hack said programs so piracy can continue.

Mind you it wouldn't surprise me if there already isn't such programs being installed on our PC's anyway without our knowledge. That would be the only way the likes of Microsoft or other game publishers/developers etc could have an advantage on catching pirates.

Oooo aaarrr mateys!!!

here's another thought - do you think if this program catches people, whether illegal software, games, movies, or music. do you think it'll just be disabled, or will you get an email to be sued similar to the RIA?ncderek

Depends on the country i guess or how legal it is to actually impliment such a program. I can't see how a program can identify if a music file or movie file is illegal without scanning your HD for some information which i thought was illegal to begin with?

I mean how would the program identify an illegally downloaded song or a song ripped from a CD i paid for?

Baal46 ur a little mommas boy that always HAD everything and ur unable to understand other ppl position... not everything turns around u and ur little town... I hate ppl like u that have everything and still have the feeling to bother others...

If u have money to buy every goddamn game then SHUT THE F UP AND DO IT and leave us the ppl that cant waste their money on every crappy game that comes out to play 1 hour and then uninstall it...

i CAN pay for games but since i dont live like u in ur little wonderful american dream world i gotta work three times more than u to buy the same **** But yeah there are always the type of american redneck ignorants like u around internet... Good thing u are a minority (Lived up there in NA for 1 year)

Btw in Asian Countries NEW games like Crysis only cost 20$ ORIGINAL. why? because there the income is lower than americans income and then they can give a chance to ppl to buy original games...

And guess what? it is working... now they are selling DVD Movies for only 5$ in China LEGIT ONES

Companies like EA are doing this and much others...

They should do this all around the world in poor countries of Asia, South America, Etc etc and ull see how Piracy disappears..

Game companies could make it more tempting to buy games instead of buying pirate copies...

bl1ndz0r

Whoa, calm down, dude. Why don't you rent your games online? It's cheaper and works for me.

Besides. you act like you have the right to play every game even though you don't have the money to buy them. Should I go out and steal an HDTV because I don't have the money to buy one? Pirating games is the same thing, except it's easy.

Fighting Piracy is quite pointless IMO. Because just look at what your working with here. Computer's are freaking complicated. I don't think anyone has ability to make a pirate-proof game. If someone has the ability to crack-protect a game, than you can be damn sure someone else has the ability to un-crack that game...narf101

True, as long as some poor or cheap guy has a computer piracy shall always survive, pirates usually live in countries where piracy is not a concern of the government, so they can "plunder" anything they find on the internet without fear of punishment. Most "grabbz" are either 1)poor or 2) cheap, I fall in the poor category, Im not hijacking this thread, Im just tired of people seeing pirates as cheap **** who want to have all the newest **** but dont have to pay, its not completely like that, most pirates just cant continually put out money to buy a piece of software when they have more important things to use that money on.I myself only "grabbz" like one game a month, and its usually a old game that I never managed to find in stores, such as Fallout 1 which I recently "grabbz", I dont "grabbz" new games, I buy news games such as the Orange Box which I recently purchased.The only time I ever "grabbz" is 1)if its a old game I cant find 2)Its a game I previously paid for but lost/broke 3)Its a game that I want to see is worth buying.

Is piracy wrong? yes.

are pirates a bunch of cheap greedy **** living in their mom's basement? no.

Piracy is wrong, but the more that corporations try to stop it, the more it will grow, because no one is going to waste time on a game that puts a bunch of **** on their pc, instead they're going to pirate the game that dosent have all the copyright bull**** on it.

yes I know Im going to get flamed, but remember, your not exactly perfect yourselves, Im sure a few songs that found there way on your hard drive arent exactly considered legal either, so think, before you persecute.

I might get banned for stating that, but gamespot has been dying anyway, so I really dont care.

If you dont want to take this thread off-topic, dont reply to this post, I just felt like stating it.

I've said this before and I will say this again. Piracy isn't as bad people make it out to be. Especially multiplayer only games sell by the millions. Now singleplayer games tend to be pirated a lot more, but if the game is good it will still sell enough to make a good profit. The thing is some devs expect way to much sales sometimes.

LOL @ the thief pirating haters, whining becuase they don't have money and feel entitled to stealing games.

Believe it or not, you don't have a right to play games. You don't have a right to jack squat.

Nobody ever gave me anything for free, I have worked and payed for all my own stuff since I was old enough to do so.

Try what I did, get an education, and get a job. Cash your paycheck and buy your games.

If you bottom feeders don't believe in morals, thats your problem. Bottom line is, pirates hurt the game industry. Period.

Morally wrong? According to whose morals? Yours? What makes you so special that you get to decide whats right and whats wrong. That's right you don't. Pratically everyone 30 and under downloads music, is that the same thing as stealing from a department store? Piracy is going to happen, whether its right or wrong is up to the individual.bobaban

This one is just sad. Ever heard the term "moral relativism"? Look it up. You are basically saying that people should get to decide for themselves what is right and wrong? What if I decide that slaughtering idiots is A-OK? You know, I just might...