DOW vs C&C 3 TW

Why is that thread still going?mohan88

I'm surprised your equally useless thread, lasted for more then a week.

THQ hasn't released the figures for Dawn of War's sales. Instead, they released the figures for it and it's expansions and combined them together. The last I heard it was close to four million. I could be off as I can't find the figures at the moment.

[QUOTE="sol_blade22"]

The Squiggy is the most usless relic unit in the game >_>

Being bigger doesn't mean its better it just means its going to be a pathfinding nightmare T_T

gogators4life

Squiggy can own every relic unit except for Knarloc.

No, no it can't. It loses in a melee fight with any, yes, any other melee relic unit.

http://wiki.reliccommunity.com/Dawn_of_War_Player's_Guide

Read up on the damage values of the different relic units. Using math, you can figure out which relic unit is most likely to win a fight by comparing their average damage, health, and armor stats to each other.

The following comparisons are assuming the Squiggoth has the Extra Armor upgrade to 11,000 HP, and that the Knarloc has an Ethereal providing a 200 HP bonus. All of them are only taking into account average DPS, so the outcome can vary, but generally it will be not too far off.

Squiggoth VS. Avatar = Avatar winning with about 7460 HP.
Squiggoth VS. Bloodthirster = Bloodthirster winning with about 6180 HP.
Squiggoth VS. Kauyon Knarloc = Knarloc winning with about 5390 HP.
Squiggoth VS. Mont'ka Knarloc = Knarloc winning with about 2590 HP.

Basically you take the health of the relic unit opposing the Squiggoth (A), divide it by 125 (B)(Squiggoth's average DPS against daemon_high armor)(123 against the Avatar as he gains 2 HP/s in battle), and subtract from it the quotient of the Squiggoth's health (X) divided by the average DPS against daemon_high of the opposing relic unit (Y). Multiply the result (Z) by the Squiggoth's DPS to get how much HP the opposing relic unit would have left (N).

(A / B) - (X / Y) = Z
Z x B = N

If you don't want to even try to understand such mumbo-jumbo, I'll explain it with words. You figure out how many seconds it would take for the Squiggoth to kill its enemy, and how many seconds it would take for the enemy to kill the Squiggoth. You subtract the lesser of the two times from the greater.

The result is how much more time it would have taken the loser before it would have been able to kill the enemy had the losernot been killed. So, you take this amount of time and multiply it by the loser's average DPS against its enemy to figure out how much more HP it would need to take out before the enemy would be killed. This gives you the average amount of health the enemy will have when they kill the loser.

Again, that's average health. It's entirely possible for a Squiggoth to take down any of the relic units I said could beat it. Attack damage isn't the same at each hit as it picks an amount of damage randomly between the minimum and maximum damage values of the unit's attack. Accuracy isn't 100% for most units, so some attacks can miss. However, only a certain degree of variation is feasible to occur. It isn't feasible the Squiggoth would win against any of them.

[QUOTE="mohan88"]Why is that thread still going?sykonfc

I'm surprised your equally useless thread, lasted for more then a week.

THQ hasn't released the figures for Dawn of War's sales. Instead, they released the figures for it and it's expansions and combined them together. The last I heard it was close to four million. I could be off as I can't find the figures at the moment.

Actually DoW was the most underated rts game till last year. It was overshadowed by warcraft 3 and other games during its release in 2004. When people started loving Company of Heroes they finally saw that the gameplay came from Dawn of War and Dawn of War started to get more popular.

As for CnC3 It's great for old school RTS gamers like myself that grew up with red alert and the command and conquer series. The Community is great as well. And they did a good job with all the features like the battlecast system.

I like both games.

[QUOTE="Iron_will"][QUOTE="gogators4life"][QUOTE="sol_blade22"]

The Squiggy is the most usless relic unit in the game >_>

Being bigger doesn't mean its better it just means its going to be a pathfinding nightmare T_T

gogators4life

Squiggy can own every relic unit except for Knarloc.

Knarloc? its feet stomp is practically useles, the squiggy's stomp is just epic! And especially that cool charge ability. I consider the Knarloc week compared to the Squiggy.

Knarloc owns Squiggy, here's proof,

http://youtube.com/watch?v=p1X6R-r_d00

Alright, you win :D, I guess the only way a Squig can win a fight against a Knarloc is that the Knaloc has no support ever, only the Squig, btw do you have the Inquisition Daemonhunt mod? Where can I download it.

EDIT: bloody space glicth made me edit my post.

[QUOTE="gogators4life"][QUOTE="sol_blade22"]

The Squiggy is the most usless relic unit in the game >_>

Being bigger doesn't mean its better it just means its going to be a pathfinding nightmare T_T

JP_Russell

Squiggy can own every relic unit except for Knarloc.

No, no it can't. It loses in a melee fight with any, yes, any other melee relic unit.

http://wiki.reliccommunity.com/Dawn_of_War_Player's_Guide

Read up on the damage values of the different relic units. Using math, you can figure out which relic unit is most likely to win a fight by comparing their average damage, health, and armor stats to each other.

The following comparisons are assuming the Squiggoth has the Extra Armor upgrade to 11,000 HP, and that the Knarloc has an Ethereal providing a 200 HP bonus. All of them are only taking into account average DPS, so the outcome can vary, but generally it will be not too far off.

Squiggoth VS. Avatar = Avatar winning with about 7460 HP.
Squiggoth VS. Bloodthirster = Bloodthirster winning with about 6180 HP.
Squiggoth VS. Kauyon Knarloc = Knarloc winning with about 5390 HP.
Squiggoth VS. Mont'ka Knarloc = Knarloc winning with about 2590 HP.

Basically you take the health of the relic unit opposing the Squiggoth (A), divide it by 125 (B)(Squiggoth's average DPS against daemon_high armor)(123 against the Avatar as he gains 2 HP/s in battle), and subtract from it the quotient of the Squiggoth's health (X) divided by the average DPS against daemon_high of the opposing relic unit (Y). Multiply the result (Z) by the Squiggoth's DPS to get how much HP the opposing relic unit would have left (N).

(A / B) - (X / Y) = Z
Z x B = N

If you don't want to even try to understand such mumbo-jumbo, I'll explain it with words. You figure out how many seconds it would take for the Squiggoth to kill its enemy, and how many seconds it would take for the enemy to kill the Squiggoth. You subtract the lesser of the two times from the greater.

The result is how much more time it would have taken the loser before it would have been able to kill the enemy had the losernot been killed. So, you take this amount of time and multiply it by the loser's average DPS against its enemy to figure out how much more HP it would need to take out before the enemy would be killed. This gives you the average amount of health the enemy will have when they kill the loser.

Again, that's average health. It's entirely possible for a Squiggoth to take down any of the relic units I said could beat it. Attack damage isn't the same at each hit as it picks an amount of damage randomly between the minimum and maximum damage values of the unit's attack. Accuracy isn't 100% for most units, so some attacks can miss. However, only a certain degree of variation is feasible to occur. It isn't feasible the Squiggoth would win against any of them.

If you say so,and right now,Knarloc beats Squiggy.So that means Knarloc is overpowered(imbalanced), right?

[QUOTE="JP_Russell"][QUOTE="gogators4life"][QUOTE="sol_blade22"]

The Squiggy is the most usless relic unit in the game >_>

Being bigger doesn't mean its better it just means its going to be a pathfinding nightmare T_T

gogators4life

Squiggy can own every relic unit except for Knarloc.

No, no it can't. It loses in a melee fight with any, yes, any other melee relic unit.

http://wiki.reliccommunity.com/Dawn_of_War_Player's_Guide

Read up on the damage values of the different relic units. Using math, you can figure out which relic unit is most likely to win a fight by comparing their average damage, health, and armor stats to each other.

The following comparisons are assuming the Squiggoth has the Extra Armor upgrade to 11,000 HP, and that the Knarloc has an Ethereal providing a 200 HP bonus. All of them are only taking into account average DPS, so the outcome can vary, but generally it will be not too far off.

Squiggoth VS. Avatar = Avatar winning with about 7460 HP.
Squiggoth VS. Bloodthirster = Bloodthirster winning with about 6180 HP.
Squiggoth VS. Kauyon Knarloc = Knarloc winning with about 5390 HP.
Squiggoth VS. Mont'ka Knarloc = Knarloc winning with about 2590 HP.

Basically you take the health of the relic unit opposing the Squiggoth (A), divide it by 125 (B)(Squiggoth's average DPS against daemon_high armor)(123 against the Avatar as he gains 2 HP/s in battle), and subtract from it the quotient of the Squiggoth's health (X) divided by the average DPS against daemon_high of the opposing relic unit (Y). Multiply the result (Z) by the Squiggoth's DPS to get how much HP the opposing relic unit would have left (N).

(A / B) - (X / Y) = Z
Z x B = N

If you don't want to even try to understand such mumbo-jumbo, I'll explain it with words. You figure out how many seconds it would take for the Squiggoth to kill its enemy, and how many seconds it would take for the enemy to kill the Squiggoth. You subtract the lesser of the two times from the greater.

The result is how much more time it would have taken the loser before it would have been able to kill the enemy had the losernot been killed. So, you take this amount of time and multiply it by the loser's average DPS against its enemy to figure out how much more HP it would need to take out before the enemy would be killed. This gives you the average amount of health the enemy will have when they kill the loser.

Again, that's average health. It's entirely possible for a Squiggoth to take down any of the relic units I said could beat it. Attack damage isn't the same at each hit as it picks an amount of damage randomly between the minimum and maximum damage values of the unit's attack. Accuracy isn't 100% for most units, so some attacks can miss. However, only a certain degree of variation is feasible to occur. It isn't feasible the Squiggoth would win against any of them.

If you say so,and right now,Knarloc beats Squiggy.So that means Knarloc is overpowered(imbalanced), right?

Why? It's slow, it has almost as bad pathing as the Squiggoth, it has no way to regenerate health, It takes up 5 cap as opposed to the usual 3 for relic units, it has no abilities or special effects... It just fights, and does it well while it's still alive.

As I said before, the Squiggoth can be repaired, so you can retreat from a lost battle and heal it back up. The same can't be said for the Bloodthirster, whose only purpose is to keep killing and destroying until he's gone, or the Avatar, who gains HP in battle so slowly he's only guaranteed to come out of a fight without a scratch against weaklings like Cultists. The Squiggoth has ranged weapons, the Zzzap gun being particularly powerful. It can transport other units to the battle. It has the rampage ability, a somewhat useful ability (though it gets interrupted too easily).

All in all, the Squiggoth is not too bad. The main problems with it are its twin big shootas need to be a little more effective, rampage needs to be harder to stop, its melee attack and Zzzap Gun accuracy could be increased a tiny bit, and its pathing needs some work. All fairly minor things, really.

I am not saying Squiggoth is bad, I actually like it. I am just saying Greater Knarloc wins in a 1vs1 contest aganist Squiggy. Both Squggy and Knarloc have pro's and cons. But when it comes to 1v1, Knarloc beats Squiggy. Just look at the youtube video I posted. :)gogators4life

Yeah, I know it does. I'm just saying that that's definitely a good thing since that's pretty much all it's good at, getting to single targets and ripping into them once it finally gets there, and perhaps soaking up some damage for its comrades in the process. It's because of the Knarloc's limited range of use that it's not overpowered.

The one and only thing even a Kauyon Knarloc is bested by in one-on-one (well, besides a Nightbringer obviously) is an Avatar of Khaine. But only by a tiny bit. I remember when I did my numbers between them last it was something like the Avatar being left with 30 HP :lol:. Due to variability of damage, though, that basically means a Kauyon Knarloc will win against an Avatar something like 48-49% of the time, while the Avatar will win 51-52% of the time.

Wait, how many Knarloc's are there? Also, is their a unit that can beat Nightbringer? Also, do you know what Dark Eldar's relic unit is going to be? gogators4life

Well, there's only one Knarloc. But its health is different depending on which command post you build. If you go the Mont'ka path, it has 8200 health as long as an Ethereal is alive. The Kauyon path increases its health by 2800, making it much more formidable against other relic units (to the point of being the most capable relic unit of defeating the Avatar).

The Nightbringer is invulnerable to all damage. At least, I think he is. I know he can still be affected by spells, but I'm not sure if that includes damage-dealing spells. I don't think it does, though. Anyway, if I'm right, no, there is no unit that can beat the Nightbringer. He is the ultimate, unstoppable unit, so long as he's still around. He's also a relic unit-killer. He does massive damage to daemon_high and vehicle_high armor, the armor that the various relic units have. Even the Avatar quakes before him.

No, I don't know what the Dark Eldar's relic unit will be. No one does yet. My thought is maybe Asbrudael Vect, but I don't know, he doesn't even seem very relic-worthy. Hopefully they will come up with something that isn't already around in the TT games for a relic unit, like the Dark Eldar mod (still in-progress) team has done with the giant Chaos Beast.

Hmmm, interesting. Can I get a pic of Asbrudael Vect? :D

Hmmm, interesting. Can I get a pic of Asbrudael Vect? :D

gogators4life

http://uk.games-workshop.com/darkeldar/miniature-gallery/16/

He's just a Dark Eldar Lord on a Ravager. I don't see why just adding him onto what will probably be the Dark Eldar heavy tank unit (like the Fire Prism, the Predator, etc.) will be good enough to make it a relic unit. Then again, I haven't read up on the fluff of Asbrudael. Maybe he's a really powerful psyker or something.

Also, apples and orangesAlternatingCaps

:question:

They're both RTS games, what are you talking about? Sure, they have differently emphasized points to their gameplay and some different gameplay elements, but that's going to be the case with most RTS games you compare to each other. As far as I'm concerned, any RTS game can be compared to any other RTS game fairly.

Both areSci-fi RTS games and they can be compared. :)

Never played CnC3 so DoW.

Dawn of War is the best RTS ever...and everybody knows it!!!

For the Emperor!

Dawn of War is the best RTS ever...and everybody knows it!!!

For the Emperor!

Avitus546

Wow necro and I remember seeing this thread back then.

It has all the RTS elements and some tweaks but nothing revolutionary. Begemott

Dawn of War is GAY Star Craft is GAY They are not better, nor can even be compared with, the best of the series that started RTS.ChineseGuy1138

Dune?